La Liga/Serie A/BuLi Draft - QF Enigma_87/Snow vs Aldo/The Stain

[Tuppet]

Please remember that players should only be judged by their performances in their assigned leagues for this draft (not career peak)

Team Enigma/Snow

Sub made at 10-10 Luiz Gustavo in for Schneider

Spoiler: Original line up

VS

Team Aldo/Stain

​

 

[Tuppet]

Team Enigma/Snow Tactics​

Player profiles:

GK and defence: Van der Sar, Marcelo, Lucio, Helmer
and separate on Cafu ->
Midfield - Antonio Conte, Luka Modric
Midfield - Bernd Schneider, Kaka
Attack - David Villa
Andriy Shevchenko

System is a bit of a lopsided diamond 4-4-2 formation interchanging to 5-3-2 or 4-3-3 depending off or on the ball. Our team is set up with Marcelo on the left flank who is very similar to his predecessor R.Carlos and arguably in peak form close to him in terms of quality(in attacking sense for sure). He's playing his natural Real Madrid position here, providing width and being a genuine attacking asset when we're in possession but also keeping tabs on the opposition right side. On the other side of the pitch we have the best right back in the draft and probably of all time - Cafu. He will run up and down the flank as he always does and pretty much would own that flank with his impressive combination of skill, stamina, teamwork, strength and overall class. He'll be combining with Schneider up front when possession, providing natural width. In the heart of the defence we have Lucio who is one of the best defenders in the 21 century succeeding pretty much everywhere he played - tall, strong and excellent tackler but also a leader he'll neutralize aerial dangers and also those on the ground. Thomas Helmer is his partner in defence - tough strong world class defender who spent most of his club career with Borussia Dortmund and Bayern Munich, and won the EURO in 1996, forming a perfect left-right CB pairing (LvG would be proud). Both will be responsible of stopping Aldo's attackers and also neutralizing them in the air, considering the probable concentration of players on the flanks for Aldo's team and also neutralizing one of the main Makaay's assets - in the air.

In midfield we have Juve's captain Antonio Conte who is a true leader on the pitch and played as if he was a coach on the field, constantly dictating teammates around. Excellent tough tackler with also a goal in him he'll provide our team with defensive cover that we need. For this game we'll consider sacrificing his box to box game and occasional running up the pitch as we'll need his presence in the middle and also covering for Marcelo. He'll me more disciplined and always look for Marcelo's zone if he moves up the pitch. With no dedicated #10 in Aldo's side he will have more time to react if needed. Alongside him we have 2 midfield dynamos in Luca Modric and Bernd Schneider. Both are excellent in both phases - offence and defence. They also would combine pretty well (they don't call Bernd Schneider the white Brazillian for noting - has excellent technique) and look for their team mates, provide additional width on the left(Modric) and right (Schneider) and also having a great work rate and team work would give us the ball back. Both will defend as a unit and neutralizing Mendieta/Davids when off possession when they try to run up the field(possibly expected more from Davids).

Our midfield will press the opponent when off the ball to get it back, as all our midfielders can participate in the defensive line. We won't play too deep or too high defensive line, rather medium one, but having a team full of versatile players with high work rate I expect our team to push Aldo's side most of the time. Depending on Aldo's set up most likely we'll share up the possession in this game, which will see the better team the one which converts most of his chances. We haven't set up with a typical destroyer at DM because I don't think we need one in this draft and it's important to have someone like Conte who will occupy that zone, who can also combine well with Modric and Schneider(who both put great shift in defence) and generally be able to control possession, rather than only break up play. Modric is the one who will have the biggest responsibilities in midfield as he'll have pretty much the same role as in Real. He's extraordinary midfielder who really is in a class of his own and with his excellent dribbling ability and technique and close control he can burst forward both through the middle or left wing(when in possession) and combine with Marcelo as he does at Real. Bernd Schneider is also a special type of midfielder who will be RCM for this one and will pretty much occupy the zone on the right central midfield to the right flank.

Up the park we have Kaka who is the best player on the pitch and truly unstoppable in his prime who will be our key player in a free AM role to do what he does best - supply Shevchenko and Villa but also finish himself. Our strike partnership is Villa - one of the best goalscorers in Spain of all time (leading national team goal scorer as well) and Shevchenko - another ballon D'Or winner who was one of the top striker in his era - hit 26 or more goals in 5 of his 7 seasons while in Milan. In those drafts we always think how and whether our forward lines will fit but this time round we have a proven partnership in Kaka and Sheva. While we know that one will work, Shevchenko has Villa as a partner and arguably that's the best striker partner he'd have during his prime(maybe only Inzaghi comes close). The best thing about Sheva and Villa are that they are so versatile that they can adjust to each other playing styles as both have proven in the past working in with different set ups.

Our main strengths and why we will win and key battles:

Our main strength and focal point in our team is the Milan core from the early to mid 00's. We have Cafu, Kaka and Shevchenko in our team. So most likely you'll be looking at this most of the time:
(apologies for the crap and in some even gayish music- all videos experienced better minus the sound)

All three of them are proven unit going forward and Cafu can feed Sheva in the box with his crosses as Kaka and Sheva will link brilliantly as in the above videos.

Antonio Conte - he'll have a tough job ahead but who else can execute it perfectly but a player that has the tactical discipline, reading of the game, combined with great teamwork, dedication and tackling ability. In this game we won't have a dedicated #10 in Aldo/Stain's team, and his role will be mainly protective one. Of course he'll participate in the build up with his excellent passing range, but his role will be restricted going forward so that he can occupy the left/center-ish zone that is left by Marcelo when he goes up the pitch or combat Davids in his runs.

 

[Tuppet]

Midfield battle - most likely Aldo will have 2 midfield line when attacking as Mascherano will be more reserved and already hands full with Kaka. While we are with the ball Conte will provide protection to cut off potential conter attack, while Modric will run the game from deep and combine with him Kaka and Schneider. The latter can provide width for Cafu and possible overlapping 2 on 1 against Aldo's full back. If Cafu goes up, he'll provide cover for his zone, in the same mold Modric or Conte will for Marcelo.

When off the ball we will have Conte holding and providing help for Marcelo, while Modric and Schneider will defend the central zone against Mendieta/Davids runs. Lucio and Helmer will be up against Makaay and also be our last line of defence. When in defending we won't lack in numbers so it's unlikely to be outnumbered in any zone of the pitch.

Flanks - I think we can provide width in both phases - attack and defence. Marcelo will obviously be the one who will provide the main wide option in attack while being covered when going forward on the left. Modric will obviously can as well. In defence our left zone will have Marcelo with Conte/Modric doubling so we won't have player disadvantage there. On the right side I think we have slight advantage in the two phases mainly because Cafu. We will be up against Reus and Angloma. While being really solid and excellent players, no one can deny Cafu all time status and he'll have Schneider who will provide more in defence with the optional creativity wide as well.

Defending and attacking in numbers - all but Villa and Shevchenko will contribute in defence as well. Villa and Sheva will most likely be our first line pressing Aldo/Stain's back line when they try to get the ball out of their half. Apart from them all of our midfielders and defenders can participate in defending in our half negating any possibility of being outnumbered at the back.

Creativity and attack - I think undoubtedly we have better attack and more creativity than Aldo's team. Kaka/Villa/Shevchenko with Marcelo/Cafu on the flanks and Modric and Schneider creating from deep with their passing in movement is more than enough to create and score couple in this game. Apart from that we have the proven partnership between Kaka/Sheva and Cafu with its synergy and combining between them. We will keep close tabs on Littbarski/Mendieta/Reus who will be the main creative players in Aldo's team having players with great stamina and excellent defensive skills as well designated in neutralizing them.

Shevchenko vs Ferrara and Montero pairing - Sheva will be up against very familiar back line. His record against Juve during that time was 6 goals in 8 games. And that is with very underwhelming partners, without Villa and Kaka for this game.

Lucio will be instructed to stay in defensive shape and not go forward.

 

[Tuppet]

Team Aldo-Stain Tactics​

Tactical Layout

Protecting one of the best German goalkeepers of his time, Raimond Aumann, is a tightly-knit unit of hard as nails defenders across the leagues. In the middle, Paolo Montero and Ciro Ferrara form the central defensive partnership. Both know each other well, having partnered each other for that dominant Juve team and needless to say, compliment each other excellently. Both excellent in drifting out as LCB and RCB, respectively, which is vital in this team.

Vincent Candela will be playing as an attacking left-back using his wonderful skills and control on the ball to combine with Davids/Henry going forward. He had loads of pace and stamina to run up and down the flank as well as being a support act in penetrating runs. On the other flank is Jocelyn Angloma. A physical specimen, strong, powerful and concentrated in defense. He will be playing in a more defense minded role providing support going forward and tucking in with the rest of the defensive unit at the back.

Anchoring the midfield is the Argentine powerhouse Javier Mascherano. He will act as a link between defence and midfield. When in possession, he will drop in to central defense with Montero and Ferrara drifting wider and Candela becoming the left-wingback. He'll be at home in this role bringing out the best of his abilities that has made him a key figure at Barcelona. He brings tough tackling, aggression and is as good a shield for a defense as you can find. And in Montero and Ferrara, he has the perfect CB pair to allow him the space in the middle and make a formidable back three.

In central mid we find the general Edgar Davids. With Mascherano behind him providing the platform, Davids has full freedom to impact the midfield battle both in defense and attack, using his phenomenal athleticism and stamina as well as his class and technique on the ball. As they say, a true box to box midfielder in his element, he'll be a star in this team.

Bringing out the best of this bunch is the Spanish midfielder Gaizka Mendieta. Again, in a right-sided attacking midfield role he'll be at his finest, providing the attacking punch this team needs with his wonderful technique, passing and shooting ability as well as using his work ethic and stamina to be a presence in midfield. He will defend with the rest of the unit. Davids and Mendieta are two complete midfielders playing in the roles that would be best suited to their abilities and they'll make a difference in controlling the game at the heart of it.

In possession, we aim to keep the ball moving quickly and have it reach the feet of the attacking players at the right time. Given the class and ability of our midfield unit, we will be playing on the front foot, assuming control of the game more often than not. Dictating terms and pegging the opposition back whilst also launching swift transitions as the midfield unit presented here is used to playing at a high tempo and showing intent when it matters. They'll add a lot of intensity to the game and use it to their advantage.

The right winger is the German World Cup winner Pierre Littbarski. A complete winger capable of playing either side or through the middle, he marries world class dribbling with great technique, pace, powerful shooting and an aggressive mentality. He'll be having the freedom to take on his man time and again or alternatively combine with the likes of Angloma/Mendieta/Makaay and conjure a fast, clinical attack.

On the other flank is the German Wonderkid Marco Reus, who will be playing in his usual role that he plays at BVB, bringing in excellent one touch play, dribbling, pace, tenacity and a regular goal threat. With Litti on the other flank, they'll be immense in pinning respective fullbacks. With Candela bombing down the flank, Reus will make his trademark touch and go darting runs into the left channel and getting at the end of chances as much as creating them. Together, they will be feeding Das Phantom, Roy Makaay. His pace, aerial ability and two-footedness will be vital in spearheading the attack, whilst his fantastic goal threat and composure in front of goal will be a troublesome task to handle.


Key Factors

• Davids and Mendieta in the middle, an uncompromising midfield duo. Their ability in both defense and attack will keep the game in our hands, and they will play a high intensity game.
• The left side of Candela-Davids-Reus. Candela will be perfect to bomb forward and combine with Davids and Reus, who can easily punish the opposition by the space created. They can be seen complementing each other beautifully and this results in an imposing and threatening area for our team.
• Similarly, Mendieta and Littbarski would be dovetailing beautifully, with Mendieta's ability to go wide complementing Littbarski's style of cutting in and the two would again use the ball intelligently as well as dangerously in that area.
• Mascherano will be in his comfort zone with the two CB's providing him space to drop into central defense and he is capable of completely dominating that deeper zone of play.
• The goal threat of Reus+Makaay with support from Littbarski and Mendieta is a big task to handle for any team.
• Makaay's fantastic aerial ability will be devastating with the crosses coming in from the likes of Candela, Angloma and Littbarski.

 

[Tuppet]

@Rado_N can you make a poll for us as always?

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?
Team Enigma_87/Snow
Team Aldo/The Stain

Cheers Rado!

 

[Tuppet]

Best of luck @Enigma_87 @Snow @Aldo @The Stain

 

[Enigma_87]

Thanks for setting it up
@Tuppet

Good luck @Aldo @The Stain

 

[Moby]

while Modric and Schneider will defend the central zone against Mendieta/Davids runs.

That is where it falls apart.

That duo is not good enough defensively, whether it be physically or mentally, to counter Mendieta and Davids in tandem.

On the other hand, both Davids and Mendieta have more steel, graft, tenacity and mental toughness to deal with the opposition.

It's a battle you are likely to lose in all probability.

 

[Rado_N]

@Rado_N can you make a poll for us as always?

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?
Team Enigma_87/Snow
Team Aldo/The Stain

Cheers Rado!

Boom.

 

[harms]

Have to say, with Conte being relatively free, Enigma's left flank suddenly doesn't look all that weak. And his attack is fantastic. Aldo has a very strong central core though

 

[Tuppet]

Yeah, have to say Enigma/Snow won the reinforcement round with Sheva and Cafu. That diamond looks awesome. Aldo/Stain do have pretty strong core and fantastic wing attack. Should be a nice tactical battle.

 

[Moby]

Have to say, with Conte being relatively free, Enigma's left flank suddenly doesn't look all that weak. And his attack is fantastic. Aldo has a very strong central core though

Yeah, have to say Enigma/Snow won the reinforcement round with Sheva and Cafu. That diamond looks awesome. Aldo/Stain do have pretty strong core and fantastic wing attack. Should be a nice tactical battle.

That leaves his midfield pretty light. Let's not forget Schneider is primarily a winger playing in a diamond. While he was good at tracking back, it's a whole different ball game engaged in a midfield with one of the greatest box to box midfielders of all time.
He'll be up against stuff like:

Sorry to be harsh, but Schneider against Davids in a midfield battle is as close to a mismatch as you will get in this game.

 

[Enigma_87]

First of all I think both sides are really well balanced all round and we have 2 noticeable team lines in Juve (Davids, Ferrara, Montero) and Milan (Cafu, Kaka, Sheva). I think our main strength is the attack and also IMO the width Marcelo and Cafu will provide on the flanks. Aldo/Stain team is also pretty solid. In games like this IMO the best attack will prevail and we're pretty heavy up front compared to Aldo's team.

That is where it falls apart.

That duo is not good enough defensively, whether it be physically or mentally, to counter Mendieta and Davids in tandem.

On the other hand, both Davids and Mendieta have more steel, graft, tenacity and mental toughness to deal with the opposition.

It's a battle you are likely to lose in all probability.

I think each team will have a fair share of possession. Most probably somewhere in 50-50 level. Our team is full of runners and grafters, who are also pretty versatile.

Modric basically holds Real's midfield on his own only paired with Kroos and occasionally Casemiro. Here he has 2 world class partners in Schneider and Conte.

We don't need a destroyer as a DM in Conte's place, but more likely tactically astute midfielder who is also great in defence but will also provide his own in build up and he's relatively free here without the designated #10 in your side.

 

[Moby]

Modric basically holds Real's midfield on his own only paired with Kroos

That midfield pair has been often criticised as being light weight. You'll struggle to find much support in the argument that Modric is good enough defensively against the high intensity game of Mendieta and Davids.
Especially with Schneider next to him.

 

[Moby]

Here he has 2 world class partners in Schneider

Sorry, but Schneider, specially as a central midfielder, is not world class, not in this context.

And he's up against someone who wasn't just world class, but one of the greatest of all time.

 

[Enigma_87]

That leaves his midfield pretty light. Let's not forget Schneider is primarily a winger playing in a diamond. While he was good at tracking back, it's a whole different ball game engaged in a midfield with one of the greatest box to box midfielders of all time.
He'll be up against stuff like:

Sorry to be harsh, but Schneider against Davids in a midfield battle is as close to a mismatch as you will get in this game.

We will really defend in zones, it's not particular one vs one in midfield battle. Modric will be paired with Schneider who can also provide width. He was a real grafter and defensively sound, he played as wing back, AM and pretty much all over the midfield. if you take a look at his WC 2002 performance you can see him pretty much everywhere.

I think having Conte/Modric/Schneider is pretty sound midfield, which is also tactically well rounded. We're not looking at destroyers like Makelele/Gattuso/Mascherano because we want to have the flexibility in build up as well.

Davids is an excellent box to box midfielder or DM but really not that much of a goal threat he has just 8 goals in 9 seasons at Juve with 2 in the whole season at most. He's not a player to man mark specifically.

 

[Enigma_87]

That midfield pair has been often criticised as being light weight. You'll struggle to find much support in the argument that Modric is good enough defensively against the high intensity game of Mendieta and Davids.
Especially with Schneider next to him.

Considering Real Madrid set up and the little work rate the front three have I'd say having Conte as well there is much stronger than what he has there at the moment.

Sorry, but Schneider, specially as a central midfielder, is not world class, not in this context.

And he's up against someone who wasn't just world class, but one of the greatest of all time.

Schneider has played a lot in similar set up. He's versatile enough to get the best out of him here. As I said I don't think Makaay, Littbarski or Reus will provide that much in defence, while Kaka is known to put a shift in and track back so he can open space for him. I'd say that we'd have similar numbers in midfield (or one more in case of Kaka), given Mascherano won't push up the field

 

[Snow]

One team had to make special precautions to deal with opposition players. The other didn't need to.

Many of Stainaldo's players rely on leniency from the ref because their defending is based on being hard rather than precise like the modern game has now become about. Hard won't get you the ball off of Modric, Schneider and Kaka legally. In an intense game like this with so many quality attackers in our side I could well see some of Stainaldo's players getting booked early and being in trouble for the rest of the game. His team just screams yellow card.

I also think the attacking options are too much. The quality up front and on the width is quite simply excellent considering the limitations that was brought on us and the players that we weren't even allowed to pick in the first place. How exactly are they going to be able to stop this offence?

 

[Moby]

He was a real grafter and defensively sound

No doubt he was, but he's out of depth against the competition.

I think having Conte/Modric/Schneider is pretty sound midfield

Wouldn't say so myself, again Schneider sticks out like a sore thumb there. Specially when the competition is Mascherano/Davids/Mendieta

Davids is an excellent box to box midfielder or DM but really not that much of a goal threat

Goal threat or not, he'll be combining his pace, dribbling, technique and excellent one-touch play to combine with the likes of Candela and Reus on the left or maraud through the middle with Mendieta in close company. You'll be careless to ignore his offensive play, specially given he has the full freedom to play as box to box midfielder.

 

[Enigma_87]

Here's Schneider putting up real class performance at the biggest stage against one of the best Brazil styles.

You can see the zones he operated and the work rate.

(little tricky having full highlights from BuLi).

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Yeah, have to say Enigma/Snow won the reinforcement round with Sheva and Cafu. That diamond looks awesome. Aldo/Stain do have pretty strong core and fantastic wing attack. Should be a nice tactical battle.

Aye, that was a great reinforcement round for them. That said, while Aldo's reinforcements were more low-key, I prefer Reus in his attack to Henry. For some reason Henry and Makaay didn't seem like a good fit together to me, whereas Reus/Makaay/Littbarski looks spot on.

 

[Moby]

How exactly are they going to be able to stop this offence?

In short:

- Mascherano, Davids and Mendieta will cut off the service to the attack given their insane work rate, pressing, pace and tackling.

- Davids against Scheider is a mismatch, Davids is in his element here, defensively he's more than good enough to deal with someone like Schneider while going forward, Schneider doesn't have a hope of catching him once he's away. We have the midfield in our control, there's very little chance of you dominating that area of the park, something which a diamond is completely reliant on.

- If Cafu and Marcelo are constantly providing width, Reus and Littbarski with the support of Davids and Mendieta and Makaay darting through the middle, will hit you with one devastating counter after another. No amount of covering can save you against that. These are highly physically gifted players and allowing them that sort of space will just put you under more pressure.

Now, how do you plan to contain Reus and Littbarski with a midfield who would be chasing shadows more often than not, while you also have the weakest CB on the pitch in Helmer?

 

[Moby]

Here's Schneider putting up real class performance at the biggest stage against one of the best Brazil styles.

You can see the zones he operated and the work rate.

(little tricky having full highlights from BuLi).

I bought his role in your first game and I;m not saying he's out of position, as such, but not in his element completely either like Davids or Mendieta are.

We made a point to choose a DM so that we can provide those two full freedom.

Our formation flanks out beautifully with Montero and Ferrara being great as wide CBs, and that counters the strength of the strikers in a diamond to a great extent, while Davids and Mendieta are excellent going out wide as they are in the middle.

These players suit these roles to an absolute tee, and most importantly, counter the strengths of your tactical setup.

 

[Enigma_87]

No doubt he was, but he's out of depth against the competition.

I know it's league peak, but that's obviously underrating him IMO. He didn't look out of depth in 81 caps for Germany playing at 2 world cups where the German side finished 2nd and 3rd did he

Wouldn't say so myself, again Schneider sticks out like a sore thumb there. Specially when the competition is Mascherano/Davids/Mendieta

well we can agree to disagree there - his accomplishments speak for itself - CL final with much inferior Bayer side. 2nd in BuLi the same year. 81 caps for Germany. I'd say he'll bring more work rate in midfield than Mendieta, being much more agile and faster.

Goal threat or not, he'll be combining his pace, dribbling, technique and excellent one-touch play to combine with the likes of Candela and Reus on the left or maraud through the middle with Mendieta in close company. You'll be careless to ignore his offensive play, specially given he has the full freedom to play as box to box midfielder.

No one denying his quality. However on the pitch you have to agree that Reus/Littbarski/Makaay is a bit inferior to our attack(nothing to take away from either of them).

 

[Enigma_87]

I bought his role in your first game and I;m not saying he's out of position, as such, but not in his element completely either like Davids or Mendieta are.

We made a point to choose a DM so that we can provide those two full freedom.

Yep, we did the same with Conte and also Schneider to be capable of providing some additional width on the right as well. When you attack you'll attack in same numbers if not lower due to Kaka putting a shift in and also Mascherano not pushing up. I think we'll have a slight advantage there in pure numbers which will balance it out.

Our formation flanks out beautifully with Montero and Ferrara being great as wide CBs, and that counters the strength of the strikers in a diamond to a great extent, while Davids and Mendieta are excellent going out wide as they are in the middle.

These players suit these roles to an absolute tee, and most importantly, counter the strengths of your tactical setup.

The thing is - Sheva has a great record against Juve - 6 in 8.


You can see there both Montero and Davids struggling to keep with him.


Against both.

And this is the time before Kaka, and you can add Villa there as well.

 

[Moby]

I know it's league peak, but that's obviously underrating him IMO. He didn't look out of depth in 81 caps for Germany playing at 2 world cups where the German side finished 2nd and 3rd did he

In a diamond midfield playing as a CM? IF he was playing as a RM here, say in a 4-4-2, I'd be a lot more supportive of his contribution.

However, in a diamond midfield the demands from CMs are quite different, nevermind the fact that you need him against the phenomenal force of nature Davids was.

well we can agree to disagree there - his accomplishments speak for itself - CL final with much inferior Bayer side. 2nd in BuLi the same year. 81 caps for Germany. I'd say he'll bring more work rate in midfield than Mendieta, being much more agile and faster.

Again, I'm talking specific to this game, not his quality overall. In this setup, he definitely sticks out as a weakness for your team. Cannot agree with him bringing more work rate than Mendieta, the Spaniard was a tremendous midfield general himself and not far behind someone like Davids in the same era, being voted Two Times UEFA Midfield of the Year while playing for Valencia.

a

No one denying his quality. However on the pitch you have to agree that Reus/Littbarski/Makaay is a bit inferior to our attack(nothing to take away from either of them).

Well, you can say that, but only individually. However, you also have a weaker CB pair, and a weaker midfield unit.
In a formation where most of your buildup is going to be through the middle, you couldn't have hoped to face a tougher central axis than Davids, Mendieta, Mascherano, Montero and Ferrara. They'll an absolute nightmare to break through the middle, and moreover, all of them are excellent shifting between central and wide areas, specially the CBs and for example Ferrara will be at home tracking Villa drifting out wide, while the same cannot be said about Helmer against a rampaging Makaay.

You have a really good team, mate, but you've come up against a team that negates a lot of the strengths.

 

[Moby]

Against both.

And this is the time before Kaka, and you can add Villa there as well.

Do you think Davids and Montero are playing in that game during their league peaks?

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Very interesting fight, I think Aldo/Stain's midfield is simply superb and will work wonderfully and dominate this match with hard work, but I can see Snow/Enigma's counter attacks deadly as hell and although the Aldo/Stain has a top defensive proven duo, they might struggle against that speed and Kaka leading it will definitely get the better of Mascherano a few times which could be lethal.

 

[Enigma_87]

Do you think Davids and Montero are playing in that game during their league peaks?

99/00 - Montero definitely - he played the most games that season. Ferrara probably very close to it as well.

I don't think you can deny that Sheva had an excellent record against Juve. Now put him in a team with Kaka at his peak and Villa at his peak. I think that's way too much to handle for your back line.

 

[Moby]

they might struggle against that speed and Kaka leading it will definitely get the better of Mascherano a few times which could be lethal.

Pace isn't something Mascherano has to be worried about. Not to mention the fact that we have a more balanced defense, with one attacking fullback and one defensively excellent one. Brazil played a back three for a reason when they had to play both Carlos and Cafu, while there is no one in the other team who can drop into defense and release those wingbacks.

However their natural game dictates that they go forward, and that is when you'll see a deadly counter happening. There's a lack of balance there and I have tremendous pace and swift passing ability to make use of that space.

Although I'm pretty sure you have already decided your vote, it'll still be good if you can take the tactics into consideration. I don't see that defense tactically suited for a diamond, nor the midfield, defensively specially.

 

[Moby]

Ferrara probably very close to it as well.

No chance, mate. Ferrara's peak was arguably at Napoli where he led the defense in the team that was led by Maradona, to win the league ahead of those Juve, Milan and Inter teams.

 

[Enigma_87]

In a diamond midfield playing as a CM? IF he was playing as a RM here, say in a 4-4-2, I'd be a lot more supportive of his contribution.

However, in a diamond midfield the demands from CMs are quite different, nevermind the fact that you need him against the phenomenal force of nature Davids was.

Again, I'm talking specific to this game, not his quality overall. In this setup, he definitely sticks out as a weakness for your team. Cannot agree with him bringing more work rate than Mendieta, the Spaniard was a tremendous midfield general himself and not far behind someone like Davids in the same era, being voted Two Times UEFA Midfield of the Year while playing for Valencia.


Well, you can say that, but only individually. However, you also have a weaker CB pair, and a weaker midfield unit.
In a formation where most of your buildup is going to be through the middle, you couldn't have hoped to face a tougher central axis than Davids, Mendieta, Mascherano, Montero and Ferrara. They'll an absolute nightmare to break through the middle, and moreover, all of them are excellent shifting between central and wide areas, specially the CBs and for example Ferrara will be at home tracking Villa drifting out wide, while the same cannot be said about Helmer against a rampaging Makaay.

You have a really good team, mate, but you've come up against a team that negates a lot of the strengths.

I don't think both CB pairs are that far off. Lucio and Helmer IMO is a great pair, as is Ferrara/Montero. Lucio was a monster in his prime and regarded one of the best defenders the last decade. His CV is also pretty impressive showing versatility in not just one league but also internationally. Helmer impeccable form in the EURO's in 96 shouldn't be disregarded as well.

if we look at it man to man and compare positions I think easily the biggest mismatch in regards to the counterpart is Cafu/Angloma.

I like Mendieta, but again I can see Schneider being more effective in our set up, given his abilities. We're not asking him to do anything different from his game than he actually did in his prime. Also being played in 5 different positions all over his career speaks volumes about his versatility and tactical nous.

I agree - you have quality team as well mate, but I think we can counter well your attacking threats while we have a lot of options both on the flanks and through the center for your defensive line to handle. I can see us outscoring your team which will effectively win us the game.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Although I'm pretty sure you have already decided your vote, it'll still be good if you can take the tactics into consideration. I don't see that defense tactically suited for a diamond, nor the midfield, defensively specially.

If I had decided already I would have voted already.

No chance, mate. Ferrara's peak was arguably at Napoli where he led the defense in the team that was led by Maradona, to win the league ahead of those Juve, Milan and Inter teams.

Really? I was always pretty confident his peak years came with Juve

 

[Moby]

Helmer impeccable form in the EURO's in 96 shouldn't be disregarded as well.

It should be, as we are looking at only league form in this matchup.

 

[Moby]

I was always pretty confident his peak years came with Juve

It's a decent debate to be had another day, but from the games I've watched, I prefer the Napoli version. Absolute rock at the back, better leader, more athletic and would tire out world class attackers for fun.

 

[Enigma_87]

No chance, mate. Ferrara's peak was arguably at Napoli where he led the defense in the team that was led by Maradona, to win the league ahead of those Juve, Milan and Inter teams.

I was referring to his Juve peak, but although different player was much more experienced back then.

I think this is the best stage for Kaka to shine, dropping back to receive the ball, he will be up against Mascherano first who is no mach for his skill or pace and a proven partnership with Sheva will be hard to figure for your CB's also having Villa as option lurking around who is deadly if he receives the ball around the box.

 

[Moby]

I don't think both CB pairs are that far off. Lucio and Helmer IMO is a great pair, as is Ferrara/Montero. Lucio was a monster in his prime and regarded one of the best defenders the last decade.

Sorry, but I comfortably have the two best CBs on the pitch.

This isn't the Champions league winning Lucio, this is the Bundesliga version, one who often annoyed his fans with his heroic forward runs leaving loads of space behind.

With two highly attacking fullbacks, a CB who has a tendency to leave his post is suicidal against a devastating counter attacking setup.

 

[Moby]

Mascherano first who is no mach for his skill or pace

Really? Mascherano himself has been lauded time and again for his physicality, both strength and pace. To say he cannot keep up with Kaka specially when he'll have time to assess the situation and act accordingly is a bit disingenuous. While not in his league performance, his tackle against Robben in the 2014 WC is one of the most memorable moments of the tournament and a testament to his physicality.

 

[Enigma_87]

It should be, as we are looking at only league form in this matchup.

Haha, I mean as a year, he was around his peak at those years in the BuLi as well. He won 3 of them in his Bayern years and let's not forget how he switched clubs as he was highly regarded at Dortmund as well and one of their best players.

In 1992, he joined FC Bayern Munich in controversial circumstances. Dortmund did not wish to sell Helmer, one of its best players, to a rival Bundesliga team, and sent him to France's Olympique Lyonnais instead. However, only three months later, Lyon sold Helmer to Bayern Munich for 7.5 million marks, at the time a record transfer fee paid by the Bavarian club.

 

[Enigma_87]

Sorry, but I comfortably have the two best CBs on the pitch.

This isn't the Champions league winning Lucio, this is the Bundesliga version, one who often annoyed his fans with his heroic forward runs leaving loads of space behind.

With two highly attacking fullbacks, a CB who has a tendency to leave his post is suicidal against a devastating counter attacking setup.

Lucio is playing in a different set up and doesn't need to push up or run with the ball. We have players to do so infront of him, he's instructed for a more cautious approach rather than puching forward, which specifically has not being mentioned in the OP

Is your team playing conter attack hence leaving to us possession or?