Hugh Jass
Shave Dass
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2016
- Messages
- 11,306
I was reading an article in the Guardian i think it was that said out of the 2 million playing football in the uk, only 120 of them will play in the PL.
Your opinion is respected and courteously disagreed with.Firstly, for a supposed tolerant and understanding ideology, your way of thinking is so bloody narrow-minded that it's actually funny, because you obviously believe yourself when writing this nonsense. There is a huge difference between patriotism and nationalism, which is where your second sentence is wrong.
Secondly, you would not be able to support actively Manchester United as the arguably biggest club in the world in modern football if you weren't English and if the club wasn't established thanks to the opportunities that England provides to individuals and organisations. I imagine if the team was to change countries all of a sudden, you wouldn't be so eager to celebrate anything and would likely be very pissed off.
Thirdly, a strong national team could drastically improve both the overall quality of the league, as well as provide a way to reduce the enormous amounts of spending that are going on in the Premier league, compared to other countries. It also would provide an opportunity for the local kids to have a future, develop better and in general create a good environment for people to prosper.
Lastly, Manchester United has always had a stong core of British players, staff and international representatives, The history of this club is what makes it so special and it would have never been the same if it wasn't English and situated in the circumstances throughout the decades. I am not English or British myself, but I always want to see such players, whether coming through the ranks or being bought at a young age, more experienced ones and the veterans leading the pack, because most of them understand the true meaning of the club far more than most foreign player can (there are obvious exceptions to the rule in our case). The intensity of football rivalries, both outside and inside the stadiums, is being destroyed as for most players, these games don't mean much more than the rest and they have only heard or read about what is behind them in terms of the history. I want to see more players fight for the badge and shirt, and not just play for the money or the possible accolades they could earn.
This is all my opinion, it's not gospel, but the way you took a very hard stance on your opinion and arguments, it spurred me to provide a different point of view.
Fair enough. I also feel strong about my stance in this debate, but would be more than ready to read other posters' thoughts and views on the matter.Your opinion is respected and courteously disagreed with.
That’s pretty shockingI suppose if we compare EPL with the other leagues, yeah, EPL probably have the least nationally qualified players playing.
Couldn't find any stats to back it up, but 've just found this:
Nov 2017, "England have just 33 Premier League players left to choose from as Gareth Southgate searches for new stars."
Even so Levy goes shopping in PSGs bargain bin instead of giving Walker-Peters a chance, a player has always done well for them and is wasting important development years. Aurier isn’t very good either.I don't think there is a 'dearth' in quality in terms of English players, I think with so much money on the line (TV) teams are impatient and don't have the trust in young English players.
Look at what Tottenham are doing, they have a bunch of good, young English players playing extremely well because they've nurtured and had faith in them, similar to us with Rashford.
3/4 years ago nobody would have thought the likes of Rashford, Kane, Alli, Trippier etc would turn out to be very good players, world class in regards to Kane.
Is there any evidence at all how the presence of english footballers in the league have on England "going forward"? Apart from one World Cup when they were hosts, England has never appeared in any major tourament final. Serie A attracted plenty of foreign players in the 90s and early 2000s at its peak popularity. Didn't stop Italy winning the World Cup. Could probably say similar for Spain and Germany where their leagues grew in popularity over the past decade. Having a quota just encourages english footballers to rest further on their laurels if you ask me. They need the competition and its on them to meet the challenge, not just to be given squad places for granted.Note the Watford team today;
Team to play West Ham: Karnezis, Janmaat, Prodl, Mariappa, Zeegelaar, Holebas, Capoue, Doucoure, Richarlison, Deulofeu, Deeney
Subs: Bachmann, Ndong, Gray, Lukebakio, Carrillo, Pereyra, Mukena
I count 1 English player in the first team
Looking across a lot of the PL teams it seems that there are less players at the highest level of the English game. Is this a problem for the national team going forward? Would you like to see a rule change to ensure each league game squad should have a certain number of squad places reserved for English players
Serie A did have quotas on foreign players the era you mentioned. In fact in Italy they are worried about the development of young Italian players right now because of all the foreign imports. Ironically, in light of your point, they are introducing new quotas to try and solve the problem. The Spanish and German leagues give their youngsters more minutes than the PL and so does the Italian league although they are getting worse, hence the soul searching (and crap international team).Is there any evidence at all how the presence of english footballers in the league have on England "going forward"? Apart from one World Cup when they were hosts, England has never appeared in any major tourament final. Serie A attracted plenty of foreign players in the 90s and early 2000s at its peak popularity. Didn't stop Italy winning the World Cup. Could probably say similar for Spain and Germany where their leagues grew in popularity over the past decade. Having a quota just encourages english footballers to rest further on their laurels if you ask me. They need the competition and its on them to meet the challenge, not just to be given squad places for granted.
They are not getting worse compared to 2010, problem is they are being compared to generations they had in the 80's or 90's, and that will not be solved only by quotas, it comes from youth development, and still there are clubs like Atalanta who make a good job on that department.so does the Italian league although they are getting worse
They’re ultimately mediocre journeymen as well.Note the Watford team today;
Team to play West Ham: Karnezis, Janmaat, Prodl, Mariappa, Zeegelaar, Holebas, Capoue, Doucoure, Richarlison, Deulofeu, Deeney
Subs: Bachmann, Ndong, Gray, Lukebakio, Carrillo, Pereyra, Mukena
I count 1 English player in the first team
Looking across a lot of the PL teams it seems that there are less players at the highest level of the English game. Is this a problem for the national team going forward? Would you like to see a rule change to ensure each league game squad should have a certain number of squad places reserved for English players
That drepende on the willingness to play the youngsters. There is so much money in the PL now that even the smaller clubs can afford big signings and not let their young players play their ways up the pecking order. It happened in Norway, which made a crap national team even worse. Even when there were top talents around, they couldn’t get a sniff due to players bought for immediate impact.There's a dearth in quality English players right now, so naturally top sides are looking elsewhere for talent.
However, the next generation of English players look really promising, to the extent that you could argue we have the best selection of youngsters coming through in the world. Future is looking bright for the England national team.
You are talking from a different football era, we are in 2018 post Bosman, globalization, majority of money coming to your country being from Asians, Americans, Arabs or Russians.British and Irish players are what make United special, and Ferguson projected that
If you are a top 6 manager and you have to win, you will be pressed to win by fans and media, if not they are going to ask for your head, the era of Ferguson 26 years at the same club or Arsene more than 20 is over.Managers in the Premier League don't give them a chance because they're not ready.
Explain the bolded part. Wtf does that mean?Secondly, you would not be able to support actively Manchester United as the arguably biggest club in the world in modern football if you weren't English and if the club wasn't established thanks to the opportunities that England provides to individuals and organisations. I imagine if the team was to change countries all of a sudden, you wouldn't be so eager to celebrate anything and would likely be very pissed off.
You would know better than us that is even harder for a manager to keep his job elsewhere in Europe yet they are more willing to play youngsters.If you are a top 6 manager and you have to win, you will be pressed to win by fans and media, if not they are going to ask for your head, the era of Ferguson 26 years at the same club or Arsene more than 20 is over.
Premier League is more than the top six. The other clubs are just as bad if not worse when it comes to playing their own youth. In addition, who is to say a youth player can't help you win more than a senior player really struggling for form. Youth brings exuberance, energy to go with talent. Chelsea have been the best academy team in England for a number of years but their players don't get chances. When Chelsea were stinking it up in 15/16 couldn't a few young players get a chance? What was there to lose?If you are a top 6 manager and you have to win, you will be pressed to win by fans and media, if not they are going to ask for your head, the era of Ferguson 26 years at the same club or Arsene more than 20 is over.
In Portugal if you stay more than 1 year at the same club you are successfull, even in the Bundesliga they are always rotating managersYou would know better than us that is even harder for a manager to keep his job elsewhere in Europe yet they are more willing to play youngsters.
True.Premier League is more than the top six.
Because the best Academies are from the top 6.The other clubs are just as bad if not worse when it comes to playing their own youth.
As another non-Englisman, I actually strongly disagree. Having a British core is a key part of Manchester United's identity, and I'd be very sorry to see us lose that.Being non-English myself, I could care less. Rather see the best in the world compete even if it means to the detriment of the England national team.
Agree. The quota system also add homegrown tax into the transfer fee. This led to clubs favor getting players with similar quality from overseas for less money. Only handful of clubs care about other competitions, so the rest only do bare minimum to meet the quota without the need of good squad depth.Maybe if we did away with the quota system some of the English guys sitting on benches to make up numbers would be at clubs that would play them.
I think OP was referring to the PL as a whole, not just United. Come to think of it, while it might be controversial and I fully understand all the excitement when a lad from the academy makes the first team, it really doesn’t matter to me much as a non-manc. Class of 92 was an outlier and it likely won’t ever happen again. Just like Fergie.As another non-Englisman, I actually strongly disagree. Having a British core is a key part of Manchester United's identity, and I'd be very sorry to see us lose that.
Oh no I agree, and I think United still has a good British core (certainly compared to many other premier league teams). It's interesting that you say that though; I have definitely bought into our academy and get excited anytime one of our youngsters get a first team chance. Not sure why the romance of the Class of 92, or for that matter the Busby Babes (or for that matter, all the solid squad players that have come from our academy and done a good job, like Fletcher, Evans, Wes Brown, O'Shea et al) hasn't really captured your imagination, but fair enough if it hasn't, not going to tell you what to think.I think OP was referring to the PL as a whole, not just United. Come to think of it, while it might be controversial and I fully understand all the excitement when a lad from the academy makes the first team, it really doesn’t matter to me much as a non-manc. Class of 92 was an outlier and it likely won’t ever happen again. Just like Fergie.
Even when they did have several they still didn't win anything. There is a lot of young talant about at the minute but they are mostly at the bigger sides and either only get loan moves or small cameo's.England have no top class central midfielders. This is why they will continue to win nothing.
I'd like this to happen. I genuinely can't see why not either. Don't Serie A do it?I think it would be a good idea to have the whole squad available on the bench. That way a manager doesn't have to only pick his strongest 7 players to be substitutes, and if they find themselves in a good position in a match they could give a youngster some PL minutes. If they show that they're capable then it opens the door for them to move up the pecking order. I know a lot of the academy's are full of foreign players so it won't be an instant solution but I think it would go some way to contributing towards a greater number of English players getting a chance at the highest level, especially as the quality of the young English players coming through improves.