Let's take a close look at our passing!

OleTheGreat

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I for once think we are the most predictable team in the PL and across the 5 leagues in Europe. It is so easy to defend against us and we are best only when we do not have the ball, break up play and go forward instantly. Imagine this, De Gea has the ball, passes to Maguire, who then passes it to either the other CB or the wingback on the left, which is then passed to one of the 2 pivots. If one of our forward players receive the ball, they immediately pass it back to the back line. There is no player in this team who can receive the ball on the half turn and take the ball forward. Bruno and Pogba are good going forward and are probably the only unpredictable ones in our team right now. Whatever happened to dribbling? Man United wingers in the past, dribbled straight into the defenders and the opposition had to back track so fast in order to keep up with them but whatever happened to that these days. We are so bloody static up front, Pogba has to look up every time and make a safe pass and I'm sure he hates it.

What's the solution to all this?
 
I think the issue is that we are unbalanced.

Good LB (Shaw)
Poor RB (AWB)

Poor LW (Martial)
OK RW (Rashford/Greenwood)

Doesn't help that AWB has no clue going forward and Martial being less mobile than a traffic cone. Bruno, Cavani and Pogba are key to fluidity. Some tactical managerial expertise would obviously help too.

I would try the follow lineup with our current squad;


Henderson
Bailly ---------- Maguire
AWB ------------------------------------------------Shaw
Fred
Pogba --------------- Donny
Bruno
Cavani --------------- Mason


Would be really interesting to see how this would work imo.​
 
I think last night, it would have helped if we had passed to the players wearing red shirts.
 
Telles must have broken the record for back passes yesterday.
 
Jacob said:
I think the issue is that we are unbalanced.

Good LB (Shaw)
Poor RB (AWB)

Poor LW (Martial)
OK RW (Rashford/Greenwood)

Doesn't help that AWB has no clue going forward and Martial being less mobile than a traffic cone. Bruno, Cavani and Pogba are key to fluidity. Some tactical managerial expertise would obviously help.
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Strange timing, AWB was by far our best player last night. He was the only one playing decent balls forward and trying to beat a man on the wing. Said this at half time.

Shaw should start every game, I said in the summer that Telles is an average player, he was woeful last night.

The problem last night was the sheer lack of movement from our forwards. Cavani came on and made more runs in the box in five minutes than Martial did for the entire 90 mins.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Strange timing, AWB was by far our best player last night. He was the only one playing decent balls forward and trying to beat a man on the wing. Said this at half time.

Shaw should start every game, I said in the summer that Telles is an average player, he was woeful last night.

The problem last night was the sheer lack of movement from our forwards. Cavani came on and made more runs in the box in five minutes than Martial did for the entire 90 mins.
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Debatable. In any case, in average game, he lacks the flair or ability to challenge fullbacks and more often than not picks the easy pass (hence the predictability).
 
OleTheGreat said:
I for once think we are the most predictable team in the PL and across the 5 leagues in Europe. It is so easy to defend against us and we are best only when we do not have the ball, break up play and go forward instantly. Imagine this, De Gea has the ball, passes to Maguire, who then passes it to either the other CB or the wingback on the left, which is then passed to one of the 2 pivots. If one of our forward players receive the ball, they immediately pass it back to the back line. There is no player in this team who can receive the ball on the half turn and take the ball forward. Bruno and Pogba are good going forward and are probably the only unpredictable ones in our team right now. Whatever happened to dribbling? Man United wingers in the past, dribbled straight into the defenders and the opposition had to back track so fast in order to keep up with them but whatever happened to that these days. We are so bloody static up front, Pogba has to look up every time and make a safe pass and I'm sure he hates it.

What's the solution to all this?
Click to expand...

Easy.

Don't have the ball.

Bruno is already getting better and better with that tactic.
 
I dont know how many times we got onto the half way line... the ball goes to AWB, he has two options... down the line to Greenwood or back to Tuanzebe. Ball goes to Greenwood, there is no option, goes back to AWB and recycled back to Maguire.

We have 0 options when the ball gets to the half way line, we keep passing it around our CB/FB/DM over and over again without getting anywhere.

Then the ball somehow gets to Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Greenwood and then its given away.

There is no urgency in the passing, there is no movement off the ball, there is no one touch passing.
 
Jacob said:
I think the issue is that we are unbalanced.

Good LB (Shaw)
Poor RB (AWB)

Poor LW (Martial)
OK RW (Rashford/Greenwood)

Doesn't help that AWB has no clue going forward and Martial being less mobile than a traffic cone. Bruno, Cavani and Pogba are key to fluidity. Some tactical managerial expertise would obviously help too.

I would try the follow lineup with our current squad;


Henderson
Bailly ---------- Maguire
AWB ------------------------------------------------Shaw
Fred
Pogba --------------- Donny
Bruno
Cavani --------------- Mason


Would be really interesting to see how this would work imo.​
Click to expand...

How have you concluded that Martial is out left winger? Yet we have an ‘okay RW’ - a right wing that we have complained about for years and cannot build an attack down there, and Greenwood, who you have put in the okay category has had an awful season.
 
OleTheGreat said:
I for once think we are the most predictable team in the PL and across the 5 leagues in Europe
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You've gone well over the top here to try to make a point, and that point has some validity but there's no need to go to this extreme to make it.

We aren't a perfect team. We all know that. A lot of our passing is designed to try to draw teams on to us, but what we saw last was an unfortunate combination of events. An opponent putting 9 men behind the ball and defending well, United having one of their sluggish nights and every attacking player being poor.
 
OleTheGreat said:
I for once think we are the most predictable team in the PL and across the 5 leagues in Europe. It is so easy to defend against us and we are best only when we do not have the ball, break up play and go forward instantly. Imagine this, De Gea has the ball, passes to Maguire, who then passes it to either the other CB or the wingback on the left, which is then passed to one of the 2 pivots. If one of our forward players receive the ball, they immediately pass it back to the back line. There is no player in this team who can receive the ball on the half turn and take the ball forward. Bruno and Pogba are good going forward and are probably the only unpredictable ones in our team right now. Whatever happened to dribbling? Man United wingers in the past, dribbled straight into the defenders and the opposition had to back track so fast in order to keep up with them but whatever happened to that these days. We are so bloody static up front, Pogba has to look up every time and make a safe pass and I'm sure he hates it.

What's the solution to all this?
Click to expand...
We have been easily creating chances Vs just about everyone all season , so while OP is genius enough to predict us no other team seems to be
 
Siorac said:
Yeah we tried that with Mourinho. Wasn't a roaring success.
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Hahahaha, yeah, well, we did win something at least.

I was kidding, but to be fair, some sort of trade between a counter attacking team and a possession team but with a much much faster transition and more directivness.

We're just too damn slow.
 
Jacob said:
I think the issue is that we are unbalanced.

Good LB (Shaw)
Poor RB (AWB)

Poor LW (Martial)
OK RW (Rashford/Greenwood)

Doesn't help that AWB has no clue going forward and Martial being less mobile than a traffic cone. Bruno, Cavani and Pogba are key to fluidity. Some tactical managerial expertise would obviously help too.

I would try the follow lineup with our current squad;


Henderson
Bailly ---------- Maguire
AWB ------------------------------------------------Shaw
Fred
Pogba --------------- Donny
Bruno
Cavani --------------- Mason


Would be really interesting to see how this would work imo.​
Click to expand...

I think the formation is good when teams aren't pressing us and leaving gaps.

I think yesterday Ole should have switched from a double pivot which was completely unnecessary due to the lack of persistent threat
 
romufc said:
We hardly create any chances in games that we have to attack.
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We have a similar amount of shots to City in pretty much every game. They have the odd game where they pepper the goal but those are not common.

We create more than enough, our strikers are just poor.
 
We never modernised, tactically. While other clubs were moving forward with the times, we looked back instead and hired Moyes, LvG and Mourinho who were all stuck in the past. Ole has tried to bring back values from the SAF era but it's still us trying to replicate past successes and resurrect past methods. Everytime someone mentions possession football, the caf loses it like you've criticised their favourite K pop star. But it's true - pressing as a real unit, playing (well) out from the back, playing quality possession football when needed, these are just some of the concepts that we haven't seen implemented or implemented well, at Manchester United over the last 8 years. Maybe it'll happen at some point over the next 8.
 
bsCallout said:
We have a similar amount of shots to City in pretty much every game. They have the odd game where they pepper the goal but those are not common.

We create more than enough, our strikers are just poor.
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Having shots is not the same as creating chances. If you have watched any City's games, you would know they look dangerous for about 50 minutes of the 90, we look dangerous for 10 minutes max in a game.

How many games have you watched us where we have had wave after wave of attacks?
 
Jacob said:
Debatable. In any case, in average game, he lacks the flair or ability to challenge fullbacks and more often than not picks the easy pass (hence the predictability).
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I contradict that statement as well. I think he has been less than decent going forward since he's been here but we all saw a huge improvement on his part last night. He ventured forward very often and went past people in front of him. He was good last night.
 
Jacob said:
Debatable. In any case, in average game, he lacks the flair or ability to challenge fullbacks and more often than not picks the easy pass (hence the predictability).
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Yeah he's questionable in general. I do happen to think he's slightly better and improving more than people like to think.

He's inconsistent and can either be 'OK' going forward or terrible. He can beat a man and has picked out some good cut backs, much like the Rashford chance in the first half last night.

He has the tools to improve going forward imo.
 
bsCallout said:
We have a similar amount of shots to City in pretty much every game. They have the odd game where they pepper the goal but those are not common.

We create more than enough, our strikers are just poor.
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Our goals/shot on target ratio is 0.3 which is the 7th in the league. City's is 0.31, 6th. Spurs are top with 0.36.

What I'm saying is that our forwards aren't particularly wasteful or anything. All our attacking stats are pretty much in line with what you'd expect. We're 4th in total shots, 2nd in shots on target, 5th in shots/90 minutes, 1st in goals scored. I do think we're not creating enough against teams that give us no space to counter but that's a specific problem.

The attack should be improved but this season the lack of control in games and in particular the defending are bigger problems. 27 goals conceded in 20 games, that's insanely high.
 
romufc said:
Having shots is not the same as creating chances. If you have watched any City's games, you would know they look dangerous for about 50 minutes of the 90, we look dangerous for 10 minutes max in a game.

How many games have you watched us where we have had wave after wave of attacks?
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Looking dangerous is definitely not close to creating chances.

We rarely take pot shots so our shots is a good indication of us being in advanced attacking positions are creating chances.

We often have wave after wave where we are the dominant team, sometimes it's too slow but we create plenty.
 
Siorac said:
Our goals/shot on target ratio is 0.3 which is the 7th in the league. City's is 0.31, 6th. Spurs are top with 0.36.

What I'm saying is that our forwards aren't particularly wasteful or anything. All our attacking stats are pretty much in line with what you'd expect. We're 4th in total shots, 2nd in shots on target, 5th in shots/90 minutes, 1st in goals scored. I do think we're not creating enough against teams that give us no space to counter but that's a specific problem.

The attack should be improved but this season the lack of control in games and in particular the defending are bigger problems. 27 goals conceded in 20 games, that's insanely high.
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Our forwards are very wasteful. You watch us and don't think they are wasteful?

It's not a lack of control that we concede from, we make dreadful mistakes from our own play or concede on the break. If anything it is the opposite.
 
bsCallout said:
Our forwards are very wasteful. You watch us and don't think they are wasteful?

It's not a lack of control that we concede from, we make dreadful mistakes from our own play or concede on the break. If anything it is the opposite.
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They are not wasteful at all. We don't create enough chances. If not, we score more than we are expected to score. We are poor at creating chances, especially in these kinds of games.
 
I think we are very one dimensional.

When teams leave space we have good counter attack. Usually down our left. Against LFC for example Rashford had a good game because TAA left loads of room. Against SU he was poor because there was a back line that didn't really move.

I saw Wilder shouting for his team to keep getting us to go wide and we obliged. We should have played more through the middle to counter their tactic.

Apart from Cavani, when he came on we simply don't have enough players getting in the box. Attacking the area, taking a gamble. Chasing that second ball.
 
Unable to keep the ball, too many lazy passes, too many hopeful passes (Bruno as guilty as anyone), and far far far too many backwards passing.

Would love to see a utd team play on the front foot again, its been too long
 
Mickson said:
They are not wasteful at all. We don't create enough chances. If not, we score more than we are expected to score. We are poor at creating chances, especially in these kinds of games.
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Rashford and Martial have been awful. They both miss glaring opportunities most games. We create chances.
 
The biggest improvement to our overall performances tend to be when our right wing has a good game. Rashford is very good on the left, but inconsistent on the right (but still better than others). Wan Bissaka plays way better when he has a proper winger in front of him who we can push the play through, so he'll be inconsistent as hell until we sort that out. Otherwise our play is focused down the left wing with nobody really to switch it to on the right if they overload. Which is why I understand Rashford on the right, but if he has an off day then its the same issue plus our left wing faltering due to how bad Martial has been this season.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I think last night, it would have helped if we had passed to the players wearing red shirts.
Click to expand...

Nail on head and as simple as this.

This is a also the reason why we have been barely scrapping by lately, when we win it's only by a single goal. Most guilty here are Rashford and Bruno, its shocking how often they lose the ball. Martial would probably also be included except he doesnt bother to show for it in the first instance.

We struggle to beat teams mostly because we consistently pass the ball to opposition players when in the final third. Bad and all as Wan Bissaka is, at this moment in time, his ball retention skills are ahead of Bruno and Rashford. Re watch last nights game and keep score of it if you doubt that.

I am absaloutely sick of the pair of them attempting those shit holllywood passes and other brain dead plays every opportunity they have. It's getting really hard to watch and frustrating as hell. Ole needs to sort it out and fast.
 
bsCallout said:
Our forwards are very wasteful. You watch us and don't think they are wasteful?

It's not a lack of control that we concede from, we make dreadful mistakes from our own play or concede on the break. If anything it is the opposite.
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No, I don't think they are. They aren't playing very well but that's different.

Every team's fans tend to think their strikers aren't clinical/too wasteful because every missed chance hurts and they stick in the mind. In our case it's exacerbated by a couple of big misses in high profile games, most notably the PSG one and, to a lesser extent, the league game at Anfield. But every team misses chances sometimes; stats and the eye test both suggest that we're not worse than most in that department.

I mean, no one in their right mind would call Lewandowski a wasteful striker. He's been the best number nine on the planet for a while now. Well, here's a compilation of his worst misses from the 2019/20 Bundesliga season. Again, this is one season, league games only as far as I'm aware. And there are some real shockers here:

 
Passing the ball isn't really something we do - we're more of an old school 90s kick and run team. That can be quite effective sometimes, but when the opposition are sitting deep defending a lead, our utter ineptitude in possession is painful to watch.

It's not something that's improved during Solskjaer's two years here, so he is presumably either unwilling or unable to do anything about it.
 
bsCallout said:
Rashford and Martial have been awful. They both miss glaring opportunities most games. We create chances.
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We don't even have to discuss this. Just look at the xG. Rashford is not wasteful, quite the contrary. Martial, however, is wasteful. As a team, United is not wasteful and yet again we overproduced yesterday because our xG was 0.99. I'm sorry to say, my friend, but things will only get worse if Ole isn't doing any changes in our play. This has been coming. Exactly as it had been coming for Southampton who overproduced and are now back to normal production.
 
Mickson said:
We don't even have to discuss this. Just look at the xG. Rashford is not wasteful, quite the contrary. Martial, however, is wasteful. As a team, United is not wasteful and yet again we overproduced yesterday because our xG was 0.99. I'm sorry to say, my friend, but things will only get worse if Ole isn't doing any changes in our play. This has been coming. Exactly as it had been coming for Southampton who overproduced and are now back to normal production.
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Don't rely on xG :lol:

Rashford is not only wasteful in front of goal, he's extremely wasteful with the ball.

xG doesn't tell you when there is an easy pass on that could result in a shot. Or a simple pull back or cross. It doesn't tell you when a player should have shot but runs into players. It doesn't tell you when a striker should have attacked the back post.

Our strikers are wasteful in every aspect in the final third.
 
bsCallout said:
Don't rely on xG :lol:

Rashford is not only wasteful in front of goal, he's extremely wasteful with the ball.

xG doesn't tell you when there is an easy pass on that could result in a shot. Or a simple pull back or cross. It doesn't tell you when a player should have shot but runs into players. It doesn't tell you when a striker should have attacked the back post.

Our strikers are wasteful in every aspect in the final third.
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Well, I can agree that he is wasteful with the ball but he doesn't miss easy chances that much. Our biggest problem, in attack, IMO, is that we don't create enough chances. Something I've missed since the Fergie days.
 
Siorac said:
No, I don't think they are. They aren't playing very well but that's different.

Every team's fans tend to think their strikers aren't clinical/too wasteful because every missed chance hurts and they stick in the mind. In our case it's exacerbated by a couple of big misses in high profile games, most notably the PSG one and, to a lesser extent, the league game at Anfield. But every team misses chances sometimes; stats and the eye test both suggest that we're not worse than most in that department.

I mean, no one in their right mind would call Lewandowski a wasteful striker. He's been the best number nine on the planet for a while now. Well, here's a compilation of his worst misses from the 2019/20 Bundesliga season. Again, this is one season, league games only as far as I'm aware. And there are some real shockers here:

Click to expand...

Haaland misses some shocking sitters
 
i posted something in matchday thread asking if our players ever receive the ball and turn and go with it. Seems like they always try one two passes, mainly backwards. Any non backwards one two is just a horrible attempt it seems and we force it trying to do something stupid. To me it looks like a team that doesnt really have an attacking identity. Ole really needs to dump some of the coaches who are only here because theyve played here before and bring in an actual tactical coach to help him out. No shame in getting someone to help out on that. Would be what they need to do in order to take the next step
 
Mickson said:
Well, I can agree that he is wasteful with the ball but he doesn't miss easy chances that much. Our biggest problem, in attack, IMO, is that we don't create enough chances. Something I've missed since the Fergie days.
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That's because our strikers took chances. They weren't wasteful with the ball. Our forwards seem to spend too much time trying to find the perfect opportunity, Greenwood and Cavani are the exception to this.

I hope with Diallo coming in we can see Cavani & Greenwood play no.9 and Martial & Rashford play LW.
 
Think it's pretty telling that every single game whether we win, lose or draw I find myself saying we are giving the ball away far too much and are going to get punished sooner or later if we aren't careful
 
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