Liam Delap | £30m release clause?

On a side note, tt's pretty crazy how there are so few great strikers around nowadays. It used to be that every kid wanted to be a number 9, are they being coached into inside forwards?

Back in the 90's i could have named you 15 world class number 9's in the prem alone and easily 30 playing in Europe. Now i think i'd struggle to name you 10 world class 9's in world football and at least 2 of those are past their peak.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I think the hot streak argument is a little meaningless. All the goals were still impactful - it's not like he got a couple of hattricks in garbage time against relegation fodder.
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I agree to an extent but the lived experience of that is different than looking in hindsight. Lukaku posted decent numbers for us but would go huge patches without contributing. It makes the games where they don't score way harder than when they are. Delap has had a pretty steady return/doesn't look like a form player like Hojlund.
 
groovyalbert said:
I agree to an extent but the lived experience of that is different than looking in hindsight. Lukaku posted decent numbers for us but would go huge patches without contributing. It makes the games where they don't score way harder than when they are. Delap has had a pretty steady return/doesn't look like a form player like Hojlund.
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True, although there is also the context of him being completely new to the league and getting the goals in the Champions League early on. If he had continued his PL goals pr. 90 return from the second half of the season into this one, I think most people would forget that long run before he got his first league goal.

But returning to the Delap comparison, if we are talking about 10-12 PL goals, the benefit of having them spread out vs. in a streak is really minor. It's the overall quality that concerns me more.
 
As a backup, fine. As a starting striker for United next season, absolutely not. Problem is we have so many problem positions with so little money to spend, we can't afford a backup.
 
iHicksy said:
On a side note, tt's pretty crazy how there are so few great strikers around nowadays. It used to be that every kid wanted to be a number 9, are they being coached into inside forwards?

Back in the 90's i could have named you 15 world class number 9's in the prem alone and easily 30 playing in Europe. Now i think i'd struggle to name you 10 world class 9's in world football and at least 2 of those are past their peak.
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15 world class strikers at any given time during the 90's, or across the entire decade?

Because if it's at any given time, I think you'd have struggled and if it's across the entire decade, I think you'd find close to 15 world class options over the past decade as well.

It's definitely a lot harder to be a centre forward or striker these days. The game is analysed to microscopic detail and defences are so well organised as a result. Referees and the laws also protect keepers and defenders in a way they simply don't look after forwards. It can be a thankless and frustrating job leading the line from that central position - I'm not surprised so many more players want to attack from wider spaces where they have a little more space and time on the ball.
 
Mike Smalling said:
True, although there is also the context of him being completely new to the league and getting the goals in the Champions League early on. If he had continued his PL goals pr. 90 return from the second half of the season into this one, I think most people would forget that long run before he got his first league goal.

But returning to the Delap comparison, if we are talking about 10-12 PL goals, the benefit of having them spread out vs. in a streak is really minor. It's the overall quality that concerns me more.
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I think 12 goals for an Ipswich side destined for relegation is a solid return and the quoted fee is reasonable. Hard to see how we don't make it back in the worst case scenario at least.

 
iHicksy said:
On a side note, tt's pretty crazy how there are so few great strikers around nowadays. It used to be that every kid wanted to be a number 9, are they being coached into inside forwards?

Back in the 90's i could have named you 15 world class number 9's in the prem alone and easily 30 playing in Europe. Now i think i'd struggle to name you 10 world class 9's in world football and at least 2 of those are past their peak.
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This is just the impact of players like Messi and Ronaldo being the players kids aspire to be like. The most effective players recently have not been strikers in the last 10-15 years. Even someone like Rooney was never a true no 9. Then you have Xavi, Iniesta, etc. You need someone successful to capture the hearts of the young peopel getting into the sport. Maybe Kane and Haaland will have an impact, but we'll see.
 
groovyalbert said:
I think 12 goals for an Ipswich side destined for relegation is a solid return and the quoted fee is reasonable. Hard to see how we don't make it back in the worst case scenario at least.

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Getting Delap for £30m would only concern me, if he is the only striker we get. I just don’t think he looks that good.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Getting Delap for £30m would only concern me, if he is the only striker we get. I just don’t think he looks that good.
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He's better in general play than Haaland (link-play, even driving with the ball when defenders are in front of him rather than just into open space). Meanwhile, whilst I don't think we could put his finishing up at the same level necessarily, Haaland (a) misses a lot of chances too and (b) gets a lot of chances that any striker, great movement or not, would find themselves on the end of simply because City are capable of such penetrative passing or precise crossing.
 
I like Delap but what I see is another risk. A young player who needs to develop. At his price he’s a great buy but I don’t think he solves our problem of needed a top class, proven CF in his prime years.

Frankly the club is going to have to be really aggressive this summer, and may have to make compromises somewhere. Nevertheless if all of Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Eriksen, Lindelof, Evans, Onana can all be moved on, then there are some okay fees there plus some enormous wages saved. That should be enough for the club to bring in Garcia, Ederson, Cunha and Osimhen. And have a sustainable net spend in terms of wages and fees. Those four right there don’t solve all our problems but they greatly leap us forward in terms of where we currently are. We’d probably be a wing back and ball playing CB light but we’d be miles better off in terms of the spine of our team.

If you substitute Osimhen for Delap, you can probably extend to a CB or wing back, but I would genuinely prefer to have four top quality signings rather than 3 and 2 decent/developmental ones.
 
Everytime I’ve watched him he looks great on the ball. Drives at defenders without losing the ball, links up play and can finish lots of different types of goals. Sure he’s no world beater but he presses and works hard and much better on the ball. 30m is good business.
 
PoTMS said:
As a backup, fine. As a starting striker for United next season, absolutely not. Problem is we have so many problem positions with so little money to spend, we can't afford a backup.
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Yeah the fact they see him as the solution instead of a proven striker shows INEOS judgement is questionable
 
diarm said:
15 world class strikers at any given time during the 90's, or across the entire decade?

Because if it's at any given time, I think you'd have struggled and if it's across the entire decade, I think you'd find close to 15 world class options over the past decade as well.

It's definitely a lot harder to be a centre forward or striker these days. The game is analysed to microscopic detail and defences are so well organised as a result. Referees and the laws also protect keepers and defenders in a way they simply don't look after forwards. It can be a thankless and frustrating job leading the line from that central position - I'm not surprised so many more players want to attack from wider spaces where they have a little more space and time on the ball.
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At any given time. I mean for england alone we had Fowler, Owen, Shearer, Wright, Cole. Elsewhere you had Ronaldo, inzaghi, Batistuta, Romario, Suker, Vieri, Shevchenko, Klinsman, Kluivert., Bierhoff, Cantona, ..I could go on. Football was packed with centre forwards.
 
Reports that he will prioritise european football. Completely fair stance for a player at his stage of development and absolutely United's fault for not even being able to offer Europa.

In short, I think if we win europa we will get him.

If not he's faced with

Newcastle - very slim chance of starting next season.
Chelsea- Will likely offer Europa league if that's enough for him. Probably become a frequent starter and keep his spot if he performs.
United- Likely made instant starter and number 9 at a much bigger club. All about whether he thinks Amorims rebuild is exciting and promising enough.

I can see him going to Chelsea, and regretting it.
 
groovyalbert said:
I think 12 goals for an Ipswich side destined for relegation is a solid return and the quoted fee is reasonable. Hard to see how we don't make it back in the worst case scenario at least.

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Reassuring. Hopefully we broaden our search beyond Ipswich.
 
groovyalbert said:
I think 12 goals for an Ipswich side destined for relegation is a solid return and the quoted fee is reasonable. Hard to see how we don't make it back in the worst case scenario at least.

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Yeah.. but would we want Delap if we got Europe?
 
groovyalbert said:
I think 12 goals for an Ipswich side destined for relegation is a solid return and the quoted fee is reasonable. Hard to see how we don't make it back in the worst case scenario at least.

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That’s actually hilarious if true. What a hole we’ve dug for ourselves.
 
diarm said:
15 world class strikers at any given time during the 90's, or across the entire decade?

Because if it's at any given time, I think you'd have struggled and if it's across the entire decade, I think you'd find close to 15 world class options over the past decade as well.

It's definitely a lot harder to be a centre forward or striker these days. The game is analysed to microscopic detail and defences are so well organised as a result. Referees and the laws also protect keepers and defenders in a way they simply don't look after forwards. It can be a thankless and frustrating job leading the line from that central position - I'm not surprised so many more players want to attack from wider spaces where they have a little more space and time on the ball.
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Just for giggles, I randomly chose 97/98 and here were the top PL "strikers" (loose with the definition) per goals, not sure how folks determine "world class":
  1. Michael Owen - 18 goals
  2. Chris Sutton - 18 goals
  3. Dion Dublin - 18 goals
  4. Dennis Bergkamp - 16 goals
  5. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - 16
  6. Kevin Gallacher - 16
  7. Andrew Cole - 15
  8. John Hartson - 15
  9. Darren Huckerby - 14
  10. Paul Wanchope - 13
Notable low scorers that season:
  • Yorke
  • Overmars
  • Klinsmann
  • Wright
  • Fowler
  • Sheringham
  • Zola
  • Solskjaer
 
groovyalbert said:
I think 12 goals for an Ipswich side destined for relegation is a solid return and the quoted fee is reasonable. Hard to see how we don't make it back in the worst case scenario at least.
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I keep seeing this opinion but I don't buy it. If we were to sell him for £30m - which would only be breaking even on his reported cost and only if you ignore inflation - he'd become our fourth biggest sale ever, beaten only by Di Maria, Lukaku and Ronaldo. Not sure he's going to be that sort of player, particularly in the scenario where he's not worked out and we're looking to sell him.
 
davisjw said:
Just for giggles, I randomly chose 97/98 and here were the top PL "strikers" (loose with the definition) per goals, not sure how folks determine "world class":
  1. Michael Owen - 18 goals
  2. Chris Sutton - 18 goals
  3. Dion Dublin - 18 goals
  4. Dennis Bergkamp - 16 goals
  5. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - 16
  6. Kevin Gallacher - 16
  7. Andrew Cole - 15
  8. John Hartson - 15
  9. Darren Huckerby - 14
  10. Paul Wanchope - 13
Notable low scorers that season:
  • Yorke
  • Overmars
  • Klinsmann
  • Wright
  • Fowler
  • Sheringham
  • Zola
  • Solskjaer
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Whatever way they determine it, I think you'd struggle to sell 15 of those names being world class at the time.

Same goes for 93/94 (42 game season):

Cole - 34
Shearer - 31
Le Tissier - 25
Sutton - 25
Wright - 23
Beardsley - 21
Bright - 19
Cantona - 18
Holdsworth - 17
Wallace - 17
Cottee - 16
Ferdinand - 16
 
What if City got 75 points deduction and relegated to Championship?

Ipswich will still be in EPL means we need to play 40M ?
 
iHicksy said:
At any given time. I mean for england alone we had Fowler, Owen, Shearer, Wright, Cole. Elsewhere you had Ronaldo, inzaghi, Batistuta, Romario, Suker, Vieri, Shevchenko, Klinsman, Kluivert., Bierhoff, Cantona, ..I could go on. Football was packed with centre forwards.
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Things have changed so much. No club could accommodate Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and OGS at the same time these days.

I would have to google to find a club that actually plays with 2 strikers.

You have to therefore broaden it out and look at the wide forwards. Wingers weren’t expected to score the no. of goals that wide forwards do these days.

Many top teams don’t have decent strikers. Liverpool have just walked the league, who do they have as a striker?
 
diarm said:
15 world class strikers at any given time during the 90's, or across the entire decade?

Because if it's at any given time, I think you'd have struggled and if it's across the entire decade, I think you'd find close to 15 world class options over the past decade as well.

It's definitely a lot harder to be a centre forward or striker these days. The game is analysed to microscopic detail and defences are so well organised as a result. Referees and the laws also protect keepers and defenders in a way they simply don't look after forwards. It can be a thankless and frustrating job leading the line from that central position - I'm not surprised so many more players want to attack from wider spaces where they have a little more space and time on the ball.
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I think the 90s clearly had better CFs then the past decade both in the PL and also across Europe. Probably the point the OP was making and I don’t even think its close or debatable
 
Cassidy said:
I think the 90s clearly had better CFs then the past decade both in the PL and also across Europe. Probably the point the OP was making and I don’t even think its close or debatable
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I don't disagree with that point - in fact I agreed with it and offered a potential reason as to why in the post you quoted.

I just don't think there was ever a given time during the 90s where there were 15 world class strikers in the prem and 30 more across Europe. People tend to underestimate how rare a truly world class striker is and expect them to grow on trees.
 
diarm said:
I don't disagree with that point - in fact I agreed with it and offered a potential reason as to why in the post you quoted.

I just don't think there was ever a given time during the 90s where there were 15 world class strikers in the prem and 30 more across Europe. People tend to underestimate how rare a truly world class striker is and expect them to grow on trees.
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Maybe not 15 but maybe you could find close to 10 across the decade and across Europe quite alot by todays standards. I think even some players who were not considered WC then would be today
 
SSSSnake said:
Everytime I’ve watched him he looks great on the ball. Drives at defenders without losing the ball, links up play and can finish lots of different types of goals. Sure he’s no world beater but he presses and works hard and much better on the ball. 30m is good business.
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That’s the way I see it. I think he’d work well in uniteds system and certainly wouldn’t be anonymous in a lot of United games unlike (unfortunately) Hojlund. He’d improve United’s fluidity just by being an extra body comfortable on the ball and making the right runs
 
Cassidy said:
Maybe not 15 but maybe you could find close to 10 across the decade and across Europe quite alot by todays standards. I think even some players who were not considered WC then would be today
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Off the top of my head, Klinsmann, Suker, A.Cole, Yorke, Shearer, Kluivert, R9, Romario, Baggio(if we class him as CF), Batistuta, Stoichkov, Crespo, Salas, Zamorano, Weah. Probably can go on, but these are CFs that are better than most CFs in today's game. Maybe only Haaland is up there with these.
 
JBG said:
Off the top of my head, Klinsmann, Suker, A.Cole, Yorke, Shearer, Kluivert, R9, Romario, Baggio(if we class him as CF), Batistuta, Stoichkov, Crespo, Salas, Zamorano, Weah. Probably can go on, but these are CFs that are better than most CFs in today's game. Maybe only Haaland is up there with these.
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Are you talking about one season or a whole decade?
 
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