Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

[jm99]

Yeah again, the world cup holds more weight than league or CL games. People will weigh those performances higher.

You can keep trying to downplay the world cup, but you're coming off incredibly silly.

If Ronaldo won the WC, I highly doubt you'd be singing this tune.

If Ronaldo won the WC it wouldn't warrant a ballon d'or when combined with his club form and now playing in Saudi Arabia, even if those games hold more weight, its 7 games, 4 of which were against teams that would probably get relegated if put in the PL.

 

[Andrade]

I think in terms of prestige it is the pinnacle. However in terms of quality of football im not sure it is. However Messi didnt win the WC with a stacked team. Argentina´s squad isnt awful, but Id argue that apart from the guy we have at United there isnt many we would want at United(apart from Messi). It wasnt a underdog tale but it was jammy as hell.

It's definitely arguable that the height of club football is now superior in quality to the height of international football. If you watched the World Cup final then you know that this is far from a given: I can't recall a single CL final that was anywhere near that good. But it's arguable (only at the business end of the CL mind you: the early rounds typically have lots of club teams that are not very good).



However, the problem with superclubs in the Modern game is that they make football easier for the top players, not harder. One of the reasons Maradona was favourably compared to Pele despite being less successful at World Cups is because Pele was surrounded by World Class players whereas Maradona wasn't.



Messi has had great success at club level but bile-filled haters had always taken shots. 'It's because of Xavi and Iniesta' . 'Barcelona comfort zone'. 'System player.' 'Got to play with Neymar. Got to play with Suarez. Carried by Mbappe' etc etc.



Now at international level in this day an age, there is a a good chance that you will have worse teammates than at club level. Not the case in the past. When Messi was not successful with Argentina, the haters would point to this and say 'See? Can't do it without Barca/Xavi/Iniesta/the system etc.'



The funny thing is, now he has captained the the most successful Argentina team of all time, a team that you could argue has no world class players apart from him. Contrast that with the stacked teams that have been similarly successful in the recent past: Spain, France, Germany.



It's a monumental achievement that obliterates the notion that he was being carried by his teammates or the system or whatever.



And yet the haters don't concede and say 'yeah he's actually pretty good'. No they change tack. 'The World Cup doesn't mean that much. The CL Is clearly superior' 'record number of penaties' 'FIFA wants him to win and wants to give him all the awards'



Proving the time old adage that whatever the weather, 'haters gonna hate'.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If Ronaldo won the WC it wouldn't warrant a ballon d'or when combined with his club form and now playing in Saudi Arabia, even if those games hold more weight, its 7 games, 4 of which were against teams that would probably get relegated if put in the PL.

I don't understand why are you so worked up about Messi winning an award...

Also, Messi has been excellent for PSG this season and he's not playing in Saudi Arabia. So your comparison makes no sense, but again, I highly doubt you've ever downplayed an award Ronaldo won.

 

[jm99]

It's definitely arguable that the height of club football is now superior in quality to the height of international football. If you watched the World Cup final then you know that this is far from a given: I can't recall a single CL final that was anywhere near that good. But it's arguable (only at the business end of the CL mind you: the early rounds typically have lots of club teams that are not very good).



However, the problem with superclubs in the Modern game is that they make football easier for the top players, not harder. One of the reasons Maradona was favourably compared to Pele despite being less successful at World Cups is because Pele was surrounded by World Class players whereas Maradona wasn't.



Messi has had great success at club level but bile-filled haters had always taken shots. 'It's because of Xavi and Iniesta' . 'Barcelona comfort zone'. 'System player.' 'Got to play with Neymar. Got to play with Suarez. Carried by Mbappe' etc etc.



Now at international level in this day an age, there is a a good chance that you will have worse teammates than at club level. Not the case in the past. When Messi was not successful with Argentina, the haters would point to this and say 'See? Can't do it without Barca/Xavi/Iniesta/the system etc.'



The funny thing is, now he has captained the the most successful Argentina team of all time, a team that you could argue has no world class players apart from him. Contrast that with the stacked teams that have been similarly successful in the recent past: Spain, France, Germany.



It's a monumental achievement that obliterates the notion that he was being carried by his teammates or the system or whatever.



And yet the haters don't concede and say 'yeah he's actually pretty good'. No they change tack. 'The World Cup doesn't mean that much. The CL Is clearly superior' 'record number of penaties' 'FIFA wants him to win and wants to give him all the awards'



Proving the time old adage that whatever the weather, 'haters gonna hate'.

I have him as no.2 in my GOAT list, at no point have I denied his quality and fair enough while I disagree with it, I get the feeling you've always held these opinions regarding the world cup, but it's astonishing how many messi fanboys considered him the GOAT without a world cup in November, that as of December 18 decided that the world cup is the single most important factor

 

[jm99]

I don't understand why are you so worked up about Messi winning an award...

Also, Messi has been excellent for PSG this season and he's not playing in Saudi Arabia. So your comparison makes no sense, but again, I highly doubt you've ever downplayed an award Ronaldo won.

I'm not so worked up, this argument started because someone on here said how ridiculous it was that Madrid fans thought benzema should win, which is clearly not a ridiculous notion at all

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'm not even trying to make it about Messi vs Ronaldo. It's about the hypocrisy of fans. I'm not sure I remember so many of the Messi fans arguing the WC was the best measure of a player before this world cup, most of them had Messi as the GOAT and said subpar WC performances were irrelevant when you've played like he has at club level (and I agree with that, his performances at club leve are good enough to warrant that title, or be in the discussion), it's amazing how many of them that had Messi as the goat without a good WC performance, now believe that WC performance is the single best indicator of a players ability.

I guess we should hold onto Harry maguire, who cares if he's been shit at club level, he played well against some no marks in the world cup, the true highest level, definitely worth 90m

You're just inventing narratives.

There's plenty of Messi fans on this very website who waited for Messi to have a good WC performance before propelling him as the GOAT.

 

[Slevs]

These things have always been popularity contests more than actual stat-performance based awards. I wouldn't put much weight into whose won what, just enjoy watching them play before they retire/lose their powers.

 

[jm99]

You're just inventing narratives.

There's plenty of Messi fans on this very website who waited for Messi to have a good WC performance before propelling him as the GOAT.

And there's far more who didn't. The idea that his incredible performances over 15 years at club level weren't enough but 7 games, only one of which was against a genuine world class side is enough to put him as the GOAT.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

And there's far more who didn't. The idea that his incredible performances over 15 years at club level weren't enough but 7 games, only one of which was against a genuine world class side is enough to put him as the GOAT.

And those fans probably don't weigh the WC that much just like you don't ironically.

Re: the bolded, you're completely missing the point. I get what you're trying to argue, but you're missing important context. You're treating the World Cup like it's the FA Cup or League Cup.

When a player has not performed to his abilities(or near his abilities) at the pinnacle of the sport with all sorts of pressure/challenges to battle, then yes, people will scrutinize and critique especially if the standards are extraordinarily high.

I actually can't believe you're trying to downplay the World Cup this much. The WC final we just witnessed a few months ago that was arguably the best game ever in football.

 

[Andrade]

It's definitely arguable that the height of club football is now superior in quality to the height of international football. If you watched the World Cup final then you know that this is far from a given: I can't recall a single CL final that was anywhere near that good. But it's arguable (only at the business end of the CL mind you: the early rounds typically have lots of club teams that are not very good).



However, the problem with superclubs in the Modern game is that they make football easier for the top players, not harder. One of the reasons Maradona was favourably compared to Pele despite being less successful at World Cups is because Pele was surrounded by World Class players whereas Maradona wasn't.



Messi has had great success at club level but bile-filled haters had always taken shots. 'It's because of Xavi and Iniesta' . 'Barcelona comfort zone'. 'System player.' 'Got to play with Neymar. Got to play with Suarez. Carried by Mbappe' etc etc.



Now at international level in this day an age, there is a a good chance that you will have worse teammates than at club level. Not the case in the past. When Messi was not successful with Argentina, the haters would point to this and say 'See? Can't do it without Barca/Xavi/Iniesta/the system etc.'



The funny thing is, now he has captained the the most successful Argentina team of all time, a team that you could argue has no world class players apart from him. Contrast that with the stacked teams that have been similarly successful in the recent past: Spain, France, Germany.



It's a monumental achievement that obliterates the notion that he was being carried by his teammates or the system or whatever.



And yet the haters don't concede and say 'yeah he's actually pretty good'. No they change tack. 'The World Cup doesn't mean that much. The CL Is clearly superior' 'record number of penaties' 'FIFA wants him to win and wants to give him all the awards'



Proving the time old adage that whatever the weather, 'haters gonna hate'.

I mean, it's incredible how the goalposts keep being moved for this guy. Remember when he won the Copa America and everyone called it a Mickey Mouse tournament? 'If there's no European teams then it's not a real tournament. The Euros is 10 times better than the Copa.' Then he went and did exactly the same thing at the World Cup and now the World Cup is apparently a Mickey Mouse tournament! Wonders will never cease.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

He wasn't terrible at all. Someone like Ronaldo this season was terrible.

He just wasn't living up to the ridiculously high standards Messi has set.

Son is someone who's been terrible the entire season and Mane hasn't been great for Bayern. Neither starred in the WC(1 missed it entirely) and Messi was the best player in the WC while being incredible since the summer of 2022.

He was miles and miles ahead of both of them in any timeframe for the award.

By the standards of "the best player in the world" which he just won an award for then he was genuinely terrible all of 2021/22.
Son and Mane were very good for all of 21/22 which constitute 3/4th of the timeframe taken into account for this arc
He was miles and miles behind both of them from August 2021 to May 2022

Here's the reality

-If Messi had won nothing but scored a hat trick in the WC final while consistently being PSG's best player like Mbappe then he'd have won the award anyway.
-If Messi had done what Benzema did in 21/22 (as in being the clearcut best player with an all-timer CL campaign) and then missed the WC through injury he'd have won the award too.

 

[Gehrman]

You're just inventing narratives.

There's plenty of Messi fans on this very website who waited for Messi to have a good WC performance before propelling him as the GOAT.

I always had him as the goat or at least tied with Pelé. Him winning the wc was just the icing on the cake. He played around 1000 games before the wc. Thats a large enough sample size for me.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

By the standards of "the best player in the world" which he just won an award for then he was genuinely terrible all of 2021/22.
Son and Mane were very good for all of 21/22 which constitute 3/4th of the timeframe taken into account for this arc
He was miles and miles behind both of them from August 2021 to May 2022

Here's the reality

-If Messi had won nothing but scored a hat trick in the WC final while consistently being PSG's best player like Mbappe then he'd have won the award anyway.

-If Messi had done what Benzema did in 21/22 (as in being the clearcut best player with an all-timer CL campaign) and then missed the WC through injury he'd have won the award too.

Yeah, if you think Messi was genuinely terrible all of 2021-2022, we don't have much to talk about.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I always had him as the goat or at least tied with Pelé. Him winning the wc was just the icing on the cake. He played around 1000 games before the wc. Thats a large enough sample size for me.

Yeah, I remember you stating that in another thread.

Completely fine. I don't think people who wanted to see Messi perform extremely well at the WC before having him as their GOAT are in the wrong either.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

For what it's worth, I've always felt that penalty goals should be disallowed/heavily discounted when awarding golden boots. And players should be judged on non-penalty goals as opposed to goals generally.

 

[jm99]

And those fans probably don't weigh the WC that much just like you don't ironically.

Re: the bolded, you're completely missing the point. I get what you're trying to argue, but you're missing important context. You're treating the World Cup like it's the FA Cup or League Cup.

When a player has not performed to his abilities(or near his abilities) at the pinnacle of the sport with all sorts of pressure/challenges to battle, then yes, people will scrutinize and critique especially if the standards are extraordinarily high.

I actually can't believe you're trying to downplay the World Cup this much. The WC final we just witnessed a few months ago that was arguably the best game ever in football.

I just feel this weight given to the WC is a relic from a time when club level wasn't that good, when players played within their own leagues, when the continental completion was of poorer quality. But now top level club football is such a high standard, it feels like the weight given to the WC is just because that's the way its been before.

Like I said look at our team, are you really going to argue maguire is a great player because he's performed well at the pinnacle despite being atrocious at club level. Has there ever been a player who was signed solely off the back of a great world cup that was a success, James was great for Colombia, but couldn't displace Ronaldo, Bale or benzema, 3 players who did nothing at world cups. People talking about signing martinez as our goalkeeper based off a good WC (not even a good WC, a few good penalty shootouts, he was average in open play). People taking about singing ramos as our new striker based solely on scoring a hat trick against Switzerland, there's a reason none of these signings ever really work well

 

[Andrade]

I have him as no.2 in my GOAT list, at no point have I denied his quality and fair enough while I disagree with it, I get the feeling you've always held these opinions regarding the world cup, but it's astonishing how many messi fanboys considered him the GOAT without a world cup in November, that as of December 18 decided that the world cup is the single most important factor

If you have Cristiano Ronaldo as number one in your GOAT list then I seriously have to question your football knowledge. No disrespect

 

[jm99]

For what it's worth, I've always felt that penalty goals should be disallowed/heavily discounted when awarding golden boots. And players should be judged on non-penalty goals as opposed to goals generally.

I don't care which opinion people have, count penalties as a valuable skill. Or as an easy chance that should be scored. But be consistent in those beliefs

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Yeah, if you think Messi was genuinely terrible all of 2021-2022, we don't have much to talk about.

He was not even considered a top 30 player in the world in 21/22 as showcased by the fact that he was not nominated in the ballon d'or shortlist.
He did not make Ligue 1's XI of the season and I don't need to stress how bad that is when you're a star player for PSG considering the lack of quality in the other teams in the league
He had a terrible performance when it mattered the most against Madrid, missed a pen in the first leg and was anonymous in the second, PSG fans even booed him for weeks after that tie.

 

[Gehrman]

If you have Cristiano Ronaldo as number one in your GOAT list then I seriously have to question your football knowledge. No disrespect

No point in going there. People are entitled to their opinions.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He was not even considered a top 30 player in the world in 21/22 as showcased by the fact that he was not nominated in the ballon d'or shortlist.
He did not make Ligue 1's XI of the season and I don't need to stress how bad that is when you're a star player for PSG considering the lack of quality in the other teams in the league
He had a terrible performance when it mattered the most against Madrid, missed a pen in the first leg and was anonymous in the second, PSG fans even booed him for weeks after that tie.

Messi wasn't good in 2021-2022 for his standards, but he wasn't terrible.

I consider terrible someone like Ronaldo was this season for United.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No point in going there. People are entitled to their opinions.

Well they are, but an opinion of Ronaldo being the GOAT can't really be backed up with a good argument whatsoever.

 

[jm99]

If you have Cristiano Ronaldo as number one in your GOAT list then I seriously have to question your football knowledge. No disrespect

Well unlike a lot of people I'm not going to include players I've never seen play on my GOAT list and I was born in 1992.

I always find it crazy people who've seen a few grainy clips of a player going yep he's in my top 10 GOAT. You seem like you've watched quite a lot of older players so fair enough, though I'd think we're at a higher standard now, you wouldn't get away with being an alcoholic like best or a coke addict like Maradona and play top level football today. But in my opinion, if you haven't watched a player then including them on your GOAT list is strange, and I'd wager a lot of people, given the limited options for watching back then, have seen a handful of games of players they put on a GOAT list

 

[Gehrman]

Well they are, but an opinion of Ronaldo being the GOAT can't really be backed up with a good argument whatsoever.

Maybe but i would just let people have their opinon about Ronnie and keep the thread about Messi. Mostly at least. A bit of banter is inevitable about this

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Messi wasn't good in 2021-2022 for his standards, but he wasn't terrible.

I consider terrible someone like Ronaldo was this season for United.

He also was massively unlucky with deflected shots. Some sort of record number iirc, half of those went in and his number suddenly look a lot more respectable.

 

[jm99]

Well they are, but an opinion of Ronaldo being the GOAT can't really be backed up with a good argument whatsoever.

Well clearly it can, for me him and Messi are really the only two candidates, unlike a lot of past GOATs we've been able to watch them every single week, we see their poorer games as well as their best games, I can guarantee if Ronaldo was player from the 70s and all most people had seen was his bicycle kick against Juve, some of his long range goals, and had only seen compilations the way the vast majority have for Maradona and Pele, he'd get a far better rating. Look at how a bad season at the age of 38 is affecting his standing for some people, because we're seeing them every single week. Pele and Maradona have the luxury of being judged by highlights for 90% of people. And the ones who did watch their games likely only saw their WC performances every 4 years

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

I just feel this weight given to the WC is a relic from a time when club level wasn't that good, when players played within their own leagues, when the continental completion was of poorer quality. But now top level club football is such a high standard, it feels like the weight given to the WC is just because that's the way its been before.

I totally agree with this by the way
WC is for prestige and the history books
But as far as level of football is concerned it doesn't even chat sh** with the Europa League and I say this unironically
You can't tell me with a straight face that teams such as Australia,Poland,Japan,USA,Morocco (in spite of their magnificent run) which all made the WC knockout stage are CL quality teams as far as individual player quality goes

At this WC there were maybe 2 or 3 national teams with individual quality that can be compared to top clubs : France,Brazil,England, and I'd still fancy City's squad over all three for example, any comparison with all-timer squads such as Barca/Madrid from the 2010s would be an utter joke.

Look at it this way : You are Kylian Mbappe, are you going to struggle more scoring goals vs a weak Poland side that is starting a Serie B defender (while being yourself surrounded by top French talent) or against a top CL side that can match you blow for blow and has elite defenders? It's a no-brainer really.

 

[RacingClub]

No point in going there. People are entitled to their opinions.

Yeah for sure and he's entitled to his opinion on their opinion.

A couple of posters here are only invested in downplaying Messi to play up their favorite player.

Have a look at their posting in this thread during his first season in France and then at the World Cup.

Usually it's stuff like "Mental gymnastics from messi fans to make excuses for his demise, fact is he's finished" , "can't cut it in France" and then downplaying his recent upturn in form (or straight up disappearing).

A fair poster would dish out praise and criticism when its warranted.

Imagine not being able to enjoy those world cup performances because of your agenda, heartbreakingly pathetic.

 

[Andrade]

No point in going there. People are entitled to their opinions.

It's an opinion that few knowledgeable people hold. Journalists, panels of experts and football publications often make lists of the 50 or 100 greatest players of all time, and the top 3 is almost always some arrangement of Messi, Maradona and Pele, and this was the case even before the last world cup. Of course, he has millions of Instagram followers and I'm sure they think he's the GOAT so the belief is strong in the populace.

 

[Bole Top]

anyone can have Ronnie as the goat, just as anyone can think Messi didn't have special WC because of penalties. that's fair. it's also fair to question their knowledge because of that. you can't simply insist on any shitty opinion and hope people would actually debate with you after that. nah.

 

[jm99]

It's an opinion that few knowledgeable people hold. Journalists, panels of experts and football publications often make lists of the 50 or 100 greatest players of all time, and the top 3 is almost always some arrangement of Messi, Maradona and Pele, and this was the case even before the last world cup. Of course, he has millions of Instagram followers and I'm sure they think he's the GOAT so the belief is strong in the populace.

And Ronaldo will generally come in around 4th or 5th in these same lists. Having someone who regularly comes in the top 5 all time as your personal GOAT meaning you have to question someone's football knowledge seems a bit strange, it's not like suggesting someone that doesn't get in most people's top 20

 

[Andrade]

Yeah for sure and he's entitled to his opinion on their opinion.

A couple of posters here are only invested in downplaying Messi to play up their favorite player.

Have a look at their posting in this thread during his first season in France and then at the World Cup.

Usually it's stuff like "Mental gymnastics from messi fans to make excuses for his demise, fact is he's finished" , "can't cut it in France" and then downplaying his recent upturn in form (or straight up disappearing).

A fair poster would dish out praise and criticism when its warranted.

Imagine not being able to enjoy those world cup performances because of your agenda, heartbreakingly pathetic.

I mean, if true, this is regrettable.

 

[jm99]

anyone can have Ronnie as the goat, just as anyone can think Messi didn't have special WC because of penalties. that's fair. it's also fair to question their knowledge because of that. you can't simply insist on any shitty opinion and hope people would actually debate with you after that. nah.

That clearly isn't what I said. I said it's hypocritical to spend a decade using non penalty goals as the goalscoring metric, then including them as soon as it suits Messi. I didn't say he didn't have a great world cup because he clearly did.

It's the same way that people said Messi was the GOAT prior to the world cup when he hadn't had a good WC tournament, yet as soon as he does it, it's suddenly the gold standard.

Or when Ronaldo started at Madrid and was called a flat track bully who padded his stats against lower league sides, and games against top teams mattered most, yet that changed as well after Ronaldo's phenomenal CL knockouts for Madrid.

There's some fans on here that you can see are actually reasonable and you can disagree with them and that's fine, but there's others who are hypocrites depending what suits their favourite player. I've not tried to downplay Messi's world cup at any point, just said that using his top goalscorer award from this tournament as a plus point, without mentioning 4 of them were penalties, when it's been a different story in the past with other players.

And if you want to include the penalties and say its a good skill and isn't just a guaranteed goal, I won't argue that, but be consistent. You can't downplay how much a penalty counts for one player then fail to mention it for another

 

[Andrade]

And Ronaldo will generally come in around 4th or 5th in these same lists. Having someone who regularly comes in the top 5 all time as your personal GOAT meaning you have to question someone's football knowledge seems a bit strange, it's not like suggesting someone that doesn't get in most people's top 20

Yes I get that, but don't you question why Ronaldo is never number one in those lists?

 

[jm99]

Yeah for sure and he's entitled to his opinion on their opinion.

A couple of posters here are only invested in downplaying Messi to play up their favorite player.

Have a look at their posting in this thread during his first season in France and then at the World Cup.

Usually it's stuff like "Mental gymnastics from messi fans to make excuses for his demise, fact is he's finished" , "can't cut it in France" and then downplaying his recent upturn in form (or straight up disappearing).

A fair poster would dish out praise and criticism when its warranted.

Imagine not being able to enjoy those world cup performances because of your agenda, heartbreakingly pathetic.

I've not tried to downplay Messi at all. I just don't think international football is the pinnacle, and messi's performances at his peak at Barca, as well as being better overall, were also at a higher standard of football. If he's your GOAT that's a totally valid opinion, and if he isn't so is that. Basing it on 7 games when he's 35, two of which were knockout games decided by penalty shootouts is ridiculous. The idea that he's the GOAT but if lloris manages to save a few penalties that Messi doesn't take, he isn't is stupid

 

[jm99]

Yes I get that, but don't you question why Ronaldo is never number one in those lists?

Not really, first off there's a lot of nostalgia with older players, fair enough him being behind Messi, I'd say its arguable but it's not a huge issue. But these lists, how many of these people ever saw Pele or di Stefano play outside of a world cup, Ronaldo and Messi are judged off their poorer games as well as their better games, and we have around 1000 from each in full HD. People ranking players they've never seen or seen play a few times is bizarre to me. And again, look at best playing top level football with a drinking problem, or Maradona with a coke problem, you can't tell me the standard hasn't massively increased since then

 

[Pocho]

To be fair it depends on the context. I'd definitely rather either of those two now. If you're talking about their peak or career obviously that's ridiculous.

so you rather have Son or Mane in your team now than Messi?? Not sure if serious

 

[RacingClub]

Basing it on 7 games when he's 35, two of which were knockout games decided by penalty shootouts is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone in the world calls him the "GOAT" (I hate having to use that moniker) due to those 7 games alone.

Maybe 1% of people who think he is the best in history but the vast majority people base their opinion on his ability, his performances ,his achievements and his long and storied career.

I guess people just thought that the one stick that was used to beat him finally being broken would mean the tedious debate would end... But here we are.

 

[Zehner]

Well clearly it can, for me him and Messi are really the only two candidates, unlike a lot of past GOATs we've been able to watch them every single week, we see their poorer games as well as their best games, I can guarantee if Ronaldo was player from the 70s and all most people had seen was his bicycle kick against Juve, some of his long range goals, and had only seen compilations the way the vast majority have for Maradona and Pele, he'd get a far better rating. Look at how a bad season at the age of 38 is affecting his standing for some people, because we're seeing them every single week. Pele and Maradona have the luxury of being judged by highlights for 90% of people. And the ones who did watch their games likely only saw their WC performances every 4 years

If you can watch a career highlight video of Cristiano, then watch one of Maradona, and still think they belong in the same tier, then we've found the underlying issue. I understand when somebody thinks Cristiano makes up ground on Maradona due to his longevity and efficiency but when your eyes tell you he's as good as him, your eyes are shit.

 

[RacingClub]

so you rather have Son or Mane in your team now than Messi?? Not sure if serious

5 goals and 3 assists in 23 league games this season and he's been shit much every time I've watched him.

Also mane was so poor pre afcon for Liverpool a lot of fans were calling for him to be dropped around Xmas time.

He came back like a house on fire and had a great few months afterwards but it's not like he had a consistently great season last year either.