A French club let him stay match fit enough to win the World Cup against France. I think he'll be happy enough with the two years
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
agreed
Why people just don't accept that time waits for no man? He's undoubtedly been the greatest of his generation and one of the GOATs but he's done at the highest level now.
He made a fantastic career move by going to PSG, it kept him fit for the WC without burning him out (plus the money, of course). He achieved his last unfulfilled dream and should call it a day. I think that going back to Barca would be a massive mistake.
PSG are in a clearout. They are moving their past-it players out of the club and are likely to go for younger talents. Messi and Neymar out, means a lot of money saved. Let's see how far they will get in the CL next season.
I would have no problem accepting that (and I absolutely thought he'd be retired at this age) but it is simply not the case. He's not at his best anymore but still one of the best attacking players in Europe and unplayable on his days - which are still quite frequent. It just seems so artificial that people claim he's finished when he has 41 goals and assists in 41 games, is Ligue 1's second best rated player according to WhoScored, just won the WC with a great individual performace and will most likely win the Ballon D'Or.
This season he finished with 21 goals 20 assists in 41 games and was the best player at the world cup. He may be old and no where near his prime but he is clearly still one of the best players in the world.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I mean you could say that about any of their winning goals.
Not in his prime but yet top ten attackers in the world.
Can't argue really. The physical decline is glaringly obvious, and going back to Barca probably wouldn't work for a number of reasons. He's nearly 36 now FFS, and he doesn't have the engine of someone like Modric, who managed to cling on at the top level past that age. He's lucky that he managed to grab a WC at the end, the missing piece of the puzzle. Now there's nothing else that he has to prove.
They need to move on from Neymar and Messi but Mbappe aside, their attack is honestly Atrocious and they're going to have to spend huge huge amounts. There's absolutely no creativity in there without those two and unless they bring in substantial players or bring in players from the academy, I think they'll even struggle to win the League next season.
Messi wants to keep in shape for his final Copa America next summer
But there also so many games where he looks gassed. Its hard to say how much is old age and what is lack of motivation. Because of Ronnies strong end to the previous season i held my hands up and thought he had another season in him but he fell off a cliff in the season just finished. I just think it would be wise to semi retire than keep going and overstaying his welcome. Since playing with old Messi is like playing 10 men he has justify his wages by being insanely good and he does it in spurts but i dont think consistently enough.
Karim Benzema is La Liga's second best rated player according to WhoScored, and has 37 goals and assists in 41 games. And yet everyone agrees he's had a much worse season than the previous one, and he seems to think he's finished enough: just chose to retire in Saudi Arabia.
So clearly numbers aren't everything.
Yes, but 9 were penalties. And Bezema the prior season was never sustainable.
Penalties don't score themselves. And he's playing in a better league than Messi.
But you hardly forget how to score penalties with age. They don't really depend on fitness. Maybe you take "his legs are gone" a bit too literally
Anyway, I don't think Benzema is finished. He goes to Saudi Arabia for the paycheck but he was definitely still good enough for a high standard of football. The same might happen with Messi. It's still different to, say, Roobey or Schweinsteiger going to the MLS because they weren't physically capable of playing top level football, IMO
Pff not again. I’d rather see him retire.
Whats luck got to do with winning the World Cup? He showed up and played better than everyone, better than anyone has at a World Cup since 1986 actually. Hardly luck is it.
I think motivation will be the biggest factor, there’s not much left for him to fight for when he’s won everything.
Motivation doesn't carry you through an entire season. Messi still has some magic in his feet but I've seen him bullied by physical defenders more than ever before in the past 2 years. He'll have moments of brilliance for sure, and it might even be enough in La Liga where defenders aren't that rough, but he'll be a liability in the CL. European football is far harder than international games. Good luck to the midfielder and right back that will need to cover his side.
la liga was horrific this year. Better than French league but that’s not saying much. La liga has been declining for a while now.
Nearly a quarter of his goals were from penalties.
He still is in great shape and providing even in teams with huge defensive and even creative flaws.
When we watch him being dispossessed from the ball and the reasoning behind it is: "he is bad, he is ended, he can't against physical fellas,etc", in the same game we'll see plays were he does it like always...the thing it's that because we are not accustomed to that stuff happening to him for more than a decade, we jump into the "he is finished". Excellent elite, CURRENT top top players are continuously being dispossessed and nobody says a thing, it's part of the game even with phenoms.
Another thing is that he would not press constantly, thought he does it more than people think and that expecting a full display of slaloms after slaloms would not happen, but do not forget that this Messi it's still on pair with current top midfielders.
It's not a question of League, or age at this point... it's more about what sort of team, what sort of task, idea and fellas he will have surrounding him. He is not a player that is already in decline, he just plays a more strategic tactical role more suited to his age, but a finished player? a luxury one when he still does what he does in regular basis? nah, that's going to far.
If a team knows how to use him, he will work as charm to the very least for two years, yet his motivation it's another issue, not only his, her wife, kids, at some point they might force him to give up even if he still wants to play.
When we watch him being dispossessed from the ball and the reasoning behind it is: "he is bad, he is ended, he can't against physical fellas,etc", in the same game we'll see plays were he does it like always...the thing it's that because we are not accustomed to that stuff happening to him for more than a decade, we jump into the "he is finished". Excellent elite, CURRENT top top players are continuously being dispossessed and nobody says a thing, it's part of the game even with phenoms.
Another thing is that he would not press constantly, thought he does it more than people think and that expecting a full display of slaloms after slaloms would not happen, but do not forget that this Messi it's still on pair with current top midfielders.
It's not a question of League, or age at this point... it's more about what sort of team, what sort of task, idea and fellas he will have surrounding him. He is not a player that is already in decline, he just plays a more strategic tactical role more suited to his age, but a finished player? a luxury one when he still does what he does in regular basis? nah, that's going to far.
If a team knows how to use him, he will work as charm to the very least for two years, yet his motivation it's another issue, not only his, her wife, kids, at some point they might force him to give up even if he still wants to play.
I agree it won’t carry you through a season, but it will still take you far especially on the biggest games. Motivation will always be a significant factor. Let’s be completely honest here, no top player is going to PSG because of the history of the club or because they just really fancy Ligue 1. PSG is a team of mercenaries who’re there for money, the only superstar who might have a chance of wanting to be there because of the club is Mbappe and even then it took an obscene amount of riches and power to stop him jumping ship. It’ll be the main reason they’ll struggle to get that CL, the players need that hunger and the fire to get it and it won’t happen if their primary reason for being there is money.
Best since 1986? Debatable. Good discussion to have though.
Lucky in the sense that I'm sure even he thought his chance to win the WC had gone after the disaster that was 2018. Very rare to have your best performance in that competition at age 35. He found the perfect coach in Scaloni at a late stage.
It's true most big players come to PSG for the money, it doesn't mean it stays this way when they're at the club and we have several exemples of big names that really created a deep bond with the club (Thiago Silva, Di Maria, Ibrahimovic, Verratti etc.). That being said, a player can come for the money and still be motivated to give his best. Both aren't mutually exclusive.
Have Barca announced the new and updated levers for the coming year? They will be lit
I think Benzema, despite the drop in his level, is still more than good enough for most top clubs in Europe. He, probably like Messi soon, has just chosen to take the Saudi offer than than stay in a competitive league.
I'd say only Ronaldo from '98 rivals him. Ronaldo was a declined force in 2002 despite being excellent. Zidane was very good in 2006, but I think Messi was clearly better and you can't ignore Zidane's red in the final.
Forlan in 2010, Robben/James in 2014 and Modric in 2018 all clearly a level below as well IMO.
Maradona was also very good in '90, but I'd probably lean towards Messi clearly too.
I hope he stays in Europe.
I actually am not sure if Benzema is still good enough for an elite club in Europe. His form dipped a lot the past few months and he's been dealing with injuries.
Yeah, super duper lucky to win a World Cup.
Another weird response. Winning a world cup takes luck, because a lot of other very good players and teams are desperately trying to win it too. Maradona was lucky in 86 that the referee apparently didn't see him punching the ball into the net. Or that Brown did that crazy clearance with the back of his head to stop an almost certain Lineker equaliser. He was fortunate that the brutal treatment he received from the South Koreans didn't prematurely end his tournament. He was fortunate that Argentina were on the weaker side of the draw (as they were in 2022) and avoided European champions France and Brazil, who beat them in the previous World Cup. Etc etc. And that's the greatest individual WC performance ever, by Diego. If he can be lucky, why can't Messi? Many many awesomely great players and teams never won the World Cup. DiStefano never even got to play in one because circumstances conspired against him.
I think the poster saying that the win was lucky felt like disservice to Messi, but its true, it does require luck. The QF and Final were decided by a penalty shootout. If the goalkeeper hadnt made that wonder save at 120 minutes, well then France would have won it and nobody would be celebrating yet another 2nd place at the WC.
Silly opinion from him then.
Zinedine Zidane felt he was done with football and was still one penalty shootout away from retiring with another World Cup win.
Luck factors in to most sports to varying degrees. Not sure what purpose it serves to point it out beyond using it to try and lessen the achievements of those that have won. Ultimately it still takes a great deal of skill to win anything at the top level of sport, as luck will never be enough by itself, otherwise random teams would win major trophies every season
But what's your point exactly? If Messi is to join Barca he obviously feels differently.
My point is the same as other people have made, that Messi is probably done at the highest level.
He's not finished finished. He could walk into many mid-level teams and be their best player and have a positive contribution. But he's not going to do that, so it doesn't factor into anyone's perception of whether he is 'finished' or not. We are just talking about top level football.
The biggest problem for Barca would be how to cover his terrible work rate. On the ball however, he would be their best player. All this talk of him being finished is nonsense. He clearly never put in much eggkrt playing in a PSG shirt which should change when he returns to the club he loves
I get that, I just don't see it, especially the "probably". A player can be gone because his physical decline is too serious or because he lacks motivation. If Messi joins Barca instead of taking the big paycheck in Saudi Arabia and continues with Argentina, then the motivation part is off the table for now. And at least this last season, his physical decline hasn't prevented him from being one of Europe's top performers in league and at the WC.
Personally, I think people see him play and they blame his 'laziness' on his age when he's been walking around that much since his break through.
Complete nonsense. It takes nothing away from someone who was good to say that they also got breaks. And some tournament wins are obviously luckier than others. Brazil's in 1970 was less lucky than Argentina's in 1986 or 2022. But when you are trying to take a squad that is not that great (in terms of pure talent) to the pinnacle (as Messi and Maradona were trying to do), you're going to need more breaks than a dominant, star-packed team does.