Um, no he hasn't. Did you watch him under Pep?
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Wasnt he also far more dynamic before Pep as well?
Of course. And I can even show you articles from around that time that prove he ran below 8 km in games.
Articles prove nothing. Watch the games. He wasn't walking like he does now and he was pressing from the front as Pep's Barca did at that time.
Stats do. And when he ran beloe 7 km at times, chances are that it's your perception which is off, not the facts.
Messi was always known to walk around much of the time. It is how he reads the game.
I love Messi, but let's be honest the rivals R9 and Maradona faced in 98 and 90 were more quality than Australia, a poor Netherlands side, and Croatia with ancient Modric on his last legs, the only real quality Messi faced was France in the final.
That's why I rate Maradona 90 and R9 in 98 higher than Messi in Qatar 2022.
The quality of opposition should be counted too, not just the result.
I dont think its because how he reads the game but more about being unpredictable when he suddenly bursts into space.
Indeed.
For example Platini was great in WC 82 and 86, didn't win cause french defense and goalkeeper let him down in both games against Germany, despite him playing a hell of a game individually.
WC requires luck to win, without luck you don't win the WC no matter how good you are, you need a 'lucky' moment.
'Stats' are not 'facts' in a case like this. They are numbers which require context and interpretation. Hence, watch the games. Messi was not known for walking around when he was in his early 20s, that is complete BS.
Did you see Romario and Baggio in 1994?
Just because you don't remember doesn't mean it didn't happen. The reason I'm so sure about it is because I remember that he walked that much in games. He at times ran less kms than the goal keeper. As far back as Guardiola and it sort of pivoted towards the end of Villanova's stint as a Barca coach respectively the time after that.
It is just more trendy to criticize him for it now he's old. People really don't pay enough attention.
He avoids unnecessary runs. There are so many clips of Messi walking around like he doesn't care only for the ball to end up exactly in his feet a few moments later.
That's of course a luxury he can afford because other players run and create space for him. But he always played like this, as mentioned.
Nonsense. His pressing has steadily declined since as late as 2017, and you're trying to posit that it was the same in 2010 as it is now? Please.
No he didn't
Luck is a very elusive term, better to say timing. Sometimes things happen at a certain point and sometimes, even related to the rules or costumes of a certain period, do not happen. This goes from form, a rebound, changes of rules, etc etc etc. In any case nor Diego or Messi had precisely lots of timing going on in more than one area, in fact more things against than on favor. I would say that Diego in 1990 had more things going on in a general sense, yet he was pretty fvcked physically and the team surrounding him was really below par. But it's a pretty much futile discussion that would only show anyone predilection or in some cases mere agenda.
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Do PSG fans view him as the GOAT?
Haven’t watched him there so like to see their opinion.
Haven’t watched him there so like to see their opinion.
The GOAT of what?
Footballs history.
No one knows, it's not really an opinion based on clubs' fanbases but individuals.
Chèvre
Bebe desperately looking for an angle on Messi there since he said he would shut up if Messi won something with Argentina. Then he won Copa america with Argentina as the best player. Then he shifted the goalposts to the WC. Then Messi won the WC as the best player. Now he's going for the flopped in France angle which is at least 50% correct.
Mate, it may shake your world view but it is what it is. He never ran more than he currently does and that's a fact. You can maybe argue that he managed to press more with the same overall distance covered because he made more intensive runs or something like that but there's really not much to discuss regarding the overall distance.
Here's an article from 2014 when he ran only 6.8 km in thr CL exit against Atletico. Even around this time, he averaged less than 8 km per game.
Your memory tricks you
The problem is, you can allow Messi not to run when he scores 50 goals a season. You can't when he scores 20 because his offensive output is just not enough to make up for the unbalance he brings.
It was even truer at PSG where Mbappé is pretty lazy off the ball as well.
Is it really a problem to such degree? because too much thought was put on Neymar, Mbappe and Messi not contributing in defense, while they did more than was said in that department, without obviously not being hound dogs, yet PSG problems aren't even from these last two seasons, the team tend to shoot their own feet time and again no matter the quality of opposition. Most golas PSG receives are because of bloopers, excess of "playing" with the ball in the back, etc... and in general not having a strong mid class personal to fill the gaps when injuries or low form arrives.
Of course this last season it didn't help Ney, Verratti and Vithina being injured or merely below par in the most demanding stage of the season, but the replacements were just kids or very far from the of course beyond great upper echelon of the killians and Lios. PSG it's really unbalanced and has a very "strong" tendency to produce defensive errors even when not pressed, or even with advantage in numbers, from out of the blue goalkeeping bloopers, to defenders thinking they are Maldini, the array of stupid mistakes PSG have done in the back since years it's beyond belief.
My memory does nothing of the sort and your 'evidence' does nothing to establish your point. You are claiming that Messi always walked as much as he does now. I brought up Messi under Pep and his high pressing team, which Messi was a part of, at a time when he was most successful in club football. You then provided one article that referenced a game in 2014 and another article that began an analysis from 2014/15 onwards.
The 'walking' issue is not to do with the fact that he walks per se, it is that he does not defend from the front like he used to. Walking when your team has the ball is never going to seen as the same kind of egregious sin in the modern game where teams often defend from the front. And as someone else pointed out, his offensive production is no longer otherworldly so the fact that he walks when his team is not in possession is going to be noticed more.
So do you think Messi presses as much in 2022 (or 2018, or 2015) as he did under Pep? That's the question to answer.
Actually the Messi pressing maniac fella wasn't under Pep, was in his youth days under Frank, they had to convince him to slow down after constant fouling and consequent injuries.
In any case Messi after such period applied his pressing when he knew would hurt more or in certain occasions (tournaments, 2011 in lots of ocasions specially huge games, he was electric on every sense, WC 2022, Copa 2019, CL 2019 and Liga...etc), never was (bar his younger days) a constant in his game of being constant at it, in fact his CL 2015 is a piece of art, but is also one of the most non chalant performances from him and the team itself, it was great, but was the tip of the iceberg that in the next year they should have put more effort that things do not always roll as smooth as that tournament or Final.
he went out in a horrible way, that headbutt was beyond moronic
A lot of rumors swirling he's off to Inter Miami.
I would find that very hard to believe.
I would find that very hard to believe.
There have been all the rumors about Miami loaning him to Barca but I'd rather he go there than to the Saudi league if he really does choose to leave Europe for some rubbish league.
It's now part of his legend. His game against Brazil before that was an absolute masterclass that is still mentionned throughout the world.
he let the whole country down with that. I hear more about the head butt than the Brazil performance. Amazing player, moronic ending.
He is praised everywhere he travels, and i am much sure he doesn't care about what random people think about the headbutt on social media (which is where the headbutt is mentioned the most).
Same can be applied to every other big name in Football.
I think many make the mistake to give social media such a huge importance in life, as if it defines players legacy or something...when not even 25% of population use social media btw.
Tbf here, Barca dominated possession like no other and pressed insanely well and high under Pep (wasn't there this 3 second rule for retrieving the ball?) meaning they compressed most matches into one half - so running 8km's wouldn't really prove Messi walking about.
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Going to Saudi then.
He's basiclly announcing retirement. 
Best of luck, leo.
Best of luck, leo.
Good choice Leo. Glad he isn’t going to SA.
Yeah his headbutt was fecking cool but im pretty sure his team mates would prefer to have their talisman on the pitch in the wc final. He's celebrated for the player he was what he achieved and his fecking cool aura. Any professional would lament him losing cool on such a big occasion.
I was hoping he would go for a final tribute season and Barca where romantically he should retire but its a wise decision.