Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

[Oly Francis]

Messi is moving to PSG because Barcelona couldn't afford even half of his former salary. PSG was a plan b and the deal he got in Paris pretty much looks like the one he had in Barcelona after the pay cut.

Can people here post something without "plastic club" or "oil club"? I mean there's no point in trying to have a conversation if this is the only input you guys are providing.

 

[Brophs]

What odds he burns his penis on a hot plate?

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Hope Ramos has pen duties in his contract

 

[Real Name]

Is he moving to win the CL or because the richest club in the world are going to give him more than any other club. Who could possibly say.

Both. I mean why is this thread becoming another Ronaldo Messi debate. Situation is not much different.

 

[Giggsy13]

Most players move for money, that's why certain leagues have attracted the best players. It's not exactly a new concept.

There’s a clear difference though in a player looking to make the move up to a better league/club in contrast to Messi who’s earned €500 million in 4 years but still doing it for the money. You cannot compare the typical situation to this unique one. Messi’s dried his tears with cold hard cash.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

Yes. He joined to win another CL for a third different side in 3 different countries.
His second such challenge after moving from Utd to a poorer Madrid that played in the same league as the best side in Europe.
Meanwhile Messi is moving for the pay cheque at 34

PSG have a record of 1 CL final since 2011 when they got new owners and invested heavily ever since. There is no denying that from that perspective there is definitely a challenge for Messi.

Its already been said a few times here now. Juventus won 7-8 serie A’s before Ronaldo’s arrival. That does not really equate to a ‘hard challenge’ does it?

how did the Juventus CL run go since Ronaldo arrived? 1 quarter final and two 2nd round exits, while they reached two finals in the 3-4 years before that.

now the salary argument. Its reported that Ronaldo is almost on comparable wages at Juventus, reported figures of atleast 500.000 a week. He earns 10 milion more annually compared to his last year at Madrid and there is also a tax loophole in Italy, which ensures that there is less tax to pay for earnings outside of Italy. Who’s to say that this ‘detail’ wasn’t a big motive to move to Italy?

unfortuntaly some posters are going with arguments to only strengthen their bias, the advice would be to look at these matters as objective as possible.

 

[JuveGER]

Is he moving to win the CL or because the richest club in the world are going to give him more than any other club. Who could possibly say.

Why not for both reasons? And why not also because for the fact that Paris is an attractive city? And that he has former teammates from Barcelona and the national team there? PSG clearly makes the most sense for various reasons.

 

[JuveGER]

PSG have a record of 1 CL final since 2011 when they got new owners and invested heavily ever since. There is no denying that from that perspective there is definitely a challenge for Messi.

Its already been said a few times here now. Juventus won 7-8 serie A’s before Ronaldo’s arrival. That does not really equate to a ‘hard challenge’ does it?

how did the Juventus CL run go since Ronaldo arrived? 1 quarter final and two 2nd round exits, while they reached two finals in the 3-4 years before that.

now the salary argument. Its reported that Ronaldo is almost on comparable wages at Juventus, reported figures of atleast 500.000 a week. He earns 10 milion more annually compared to his last year at Madrid and there is also a tax loophole in Italy, which ensures that there is less tax to pay for earnings outside of Italy. Who’s to say that this ‘detail’ wasn’t a big motive to move to Italy?

unfortuntaly some posters are going with arguments to only strengthen their bias, the advice would be to look at these matters as objective as possible.

This is all correct.

 

[KennyBurner]

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I wouldn't want to face that team.

I disagree. I’d put United, Bayern, City and Chelsea ahead of them. We should all know by now that big names on paper doesn’t usually transpose into a great team. There are also defensive weaknesses. That Messi and hakimi will be overrun.

 

[Lemansky]

Messi is moving to PSG because Barcelona couldn't afford even half of his former salary. PSG was a plan b and the deal he got in Paris pretty much looks like the one he had in Barcelona after the pay cut.

Can people here post something without "plastic club" or "oil club"? I mean there's no point in trying to have a conversation if this is the only input you guys are providing.

You support a state owned club mate. Could write a page about your owners, how they won the World Cup and the aftermath of it. It’s not difficult to understand why most supporters dislike your club, a lot.

 

[berbatrick]

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I wouldn't want to face that team.

that's so similar to the original galacticos. hope city/chelsea/bayern can beat them. liverpool, juve, and united have small chances too.

 

[JPRouve]

There’s a clear difference though in a player looking to make the move up to a better league/club in contrast to Messi who’s earned €500 million in 4 years but still doing it for the money. You cannot compare the typical situation to this unique one. Messi’s dried his tears with cold hard cash.

Those leagues are better because other players moved for money. Just take France or Brazil as an example these are the countries that produce the most CL players and the countries that produce the largest amoung of WC participants(ie.2018 WC). These countries lose players due to money, they are the ones producing good players in quantity, if these players didn't move for money, these leagues would be the best.

There is no difference outside of the fact that the leagues that you are championing use their financial muscle to poach players and you somehow fail to see it.

 

[KennyBurner]

that's so similar to the original galacticos. hope city/chelsea/bayern can beat them. liverpool, juve, and united have small chances too.

We are better than Chelsea. Why think we have a small chance and they don’t?

 

[Oly Francis]

You support a state owned club mate. Could write a page about your owners, how they won the World Cup and the aftermath of it. It’s not difficult to understand why most supporters dislike your club, a lot.

I get why they dislike our club, is it a reason to keep on repeating "plastic club, plastic club, pla.. " like a broken record? Seems pretty childish to me. Especially when it's an excuse for very bad analysis.

 

[Samid]

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[Bole Top]

I don't see the issue in moving to PSG. he's 34, he carried Barca for years and the end of his career is near. any sane person would choose PSG at this stage of his career.

 

[pcaming]

Being rich is fun aye...

 

[AjaxCunian]

I disagree. I’d put United, Bayern, City and Chelsea ahead of them. We should all know by now that big names on paper doesn’t usually transpose into a great team. There are also defensive weaknesses. That Messi and hakimi will be overrun.

We couldnt beat bloody Sevilla and haven't won a trophy in 4 years, why would you put United over PSG? A team that has made the CL final and semi-final consecutively and has added a lot of quality to the team?

 

[90 + 5min]

Nothing new. Money talks. As I said in the other thread I think his emoitions and tears are real. But money are bigger in his eyes.

To go to PSG from spanish league is for me to take step back from elite football (top leagues) and look for retirament. Maybe a wierd thing to say and maybe wrong but a league that is as fameous and strong as Dutch or Portugese isn't exactly a challenge. Specially if your team is worth 10 times more then other teams, together. Difference between him and Ronaldo is clear to see here.

 

[KennyBurner]

We couldnt beat bloody Sevilla and haven't won a trophy in 4 years, why would you put United over PSG? A team that has made the CL final and semi-final consecutively and has added a lot of quality to the team?

We were the better team Head to head. Martial is the reason we didn't destroy them.

 

[Idxomer]

Ronaldo left Madrid for Juventus who won the Serie A 8 consecutive years from 2011-2019. Wouldn’t that be classified as a ‘lazy’ transfer too?

Messi has been carrying Barcelona for years while they were on a ‘decline’ and if it wasn’t for the contractual and financial mess he would still be playing at Camp Nou. A player his calibre comes with great wages and options are limited for clubs in times where budgets are tight. It’s not as if clubs were fighting for his signature. Posters using this transfer for their Ronaldo/Messi debate should try to look at these matters as objective as possible.

It was, he went to one of the easiest leagues for old players and especially forwards.

 

[DutchCruijff]

Wrong is that his contract had a huge part in Barcelonas ruin. Satisfied?

€500m went out of the club and into his pockets in just 4 years. Barca have a debt of around €1.2 billion - net debt around €0.5 billion, I believe.

His fee of €2.5m per week was the benchmark for many other extortionate contracts.

Their main issue right now is (a) their debt and (b) their wage to turnover ratio. Other causes - including COVID, particularly - important just as obscene contracts like Messi which, themselves, took a significant chunk.

His wages ALONE contributing to about 20-25% of the wage to turnover % - meaning with a cap of 70% and his salary constituting 20-25%. we're talking about 30-35% of that wage cap being assigned to just one player.

Then there are knock on ramifications vis a vis contract negotiations with other players. See Griezmann, in particular. Agents will use contracts exactly like Messi's as benchmarks. Griezmann is on an obscene contract too, around €700-800K per week and Coutinho on €500K per week. The benchmark for these contract negotiations are most definitely Messi's contract.

It's called "breaking the wage structure" and Messi's obscene income per week of around €2.5m per week (including annual loyalty bonus + signing on fee) most definitely broke the wage structure as well as putting a tremendous strain on the debt of the club.

 

[Sixtysecondassassin]

This is terribly depressing for Football, iam sure the youtube clip generation will love it though.

 

[berbatrick]

We are better than Chelsea. Why think we have a small chance and they don’t?

They're the defending champions of Europe? Very good in knockout matches (reached CL and FA Cup finals, won the CL) and outstanding defensive record, including against tough opponents, since Tuchel joined.

 

[Oly Francis]

115 000 persons tracking messi's flight on flightradar24, this is pretty insane.

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[Rektsanwalt]

We were the better team Head to head. Martial is the reason we didn't destroy them.

That still doesn't put United above PSG. They're clearly top tier now, one of the best 3 teams in the world.

 

[bosskeano]

With Lio going to PSG, they should be clear favorites to win the CL this season and anything less than that and Poch just might get himself fired

 

[Rektsanwalt]

With Lio going to PSG, they should be clear favorites to win the CL this season and anything less than that and Poch just might get himself fired

they need to make a deep run, I agree, but actually winning the CL is not a given, not even with a super team. It's not plannable as teams like ManCity have shown.

 

[JPRouve]

It was, he went to one of the easiest leagues for old players and especially forwards.

I wouldn't call it lazy. It's extremely disrespectful when we are talking about 34 years old players that aren't in their physical prime and have given everything for 17-18 years, challenged themselves every seasons in order to maintain a level of consistency and excellence that we will probably never see in our lifetime.
Yes, Ronaldo moved in a league that is probably slightly easier physically but he is still working hard, it's in the context of his mileage and it's obviously not a challenge but simply a transition motivated by passion for the game and also money.

 

[Lemansky]

I get why they dislike our club, is it a reason to keep on repeating "plastic club, plastic club, pla.. " like a broken record? Seems pretty childish to me. Especially when it's an excuse for very bad analysis.

Just let that go. Signing Messi, Ramos, Donnarumma, Hakimi, Wijnaldum etc in a Covid year will make people a bit triggered and jealous. The Spanish certainly has a right to be a bit irritated as they have strict FFP rules and PSG has none.

 

[Nickelodeon]

What a poor decision from a footballing point of view. Messi could literally have gone anywhere. Any major team would've had him and paid him north of 200k a week.

His status and GOAT remains unaffected by this. But if I were a Messi fan, I'd be really disappointed by this choice.

 

[bosskeano]

they need to make a deep run, I agree, but actually winning the CL is not a given, not even with a super team. It's not plannable as teams like ManCity have shown.

based on what they've done and spent this summer(messi, donnuruma, gigi, ramos) they are putting all the chips on the table to win the CL as they've gone for very experienced players who are title winners

 

[Rektsanwalt]

based on what they've done and spent this summer(messi, donnuruma, gigi, ramos) they are putting all the chips on the table to win the CL as they've gone for very experienced players who are title winners

Yes, that's what I'm saying. A deep run is mandatory, in other words reaching the semi final, but winning the damn thing is not a given, even for that team.

 

[Real Name]

€500m went out of the club and into his pockets in just 4 years. Barca have a debt of around €1.2 billion - net debt around €0.5 billion, I believe.

His fee of €2.5m per week was the benchmark for many other extortionate contracts.

Their main issue right now is (a) their debt and (b) their wage to turnover ratio. Other causes - including COVID, particularly - important just as obscene contracts like Messi which, themselves, took a significant chunk.

His wages ALONE contributing to about 20-25% of the wage to turnover % - meaning with a cap of 70% and his salary constituting 20-25%. we're talking about 30-35% of that wage cap being assigned to just one player.

Then there are knock on ramifications vis a vis contract negotiations with other players. See Griezmann, in particular. Agents will use contracts exactly like Messi's as benchmarks. Griezmann is on an obscene contract too, around €700-800K per week and Coutinho on €500K per week. The benchmark for these contract negotiations are most definitely Messi's contract.

It's called "breaking the wage structure" and Messi's obscene income per week of around €2.5m per week (including annual loyalty bonus + signing on fee) most definitely broke the wage structure as well as putting a tremendous strain on the debt of the club.

So Messi is at fault Barcelona made all those fishy deals and have all those huge salaries. Sounds legit. Messi contract is a benchmark? Nobody pressured Barcelona to give those kind of contracts. They bought Pjanić and pay him a huge salary and he isn't even playing ffs.

 

[GDaly95]

18 years ago, PSG gave Barca one Ronaldinho.

Now, 18 years on, Barca give them Messi in return.

Nah I'm trying to make this feel like a full circle moment but I can't because it isn't. I can't believe he's gone to PSG ffs

 

[NoLogo]

Just let that go. Signing Messi, Ramos, Donnarumma, Hakimi, Wijnaldum etc in a Covid year will make people a bit triggered and jealous. The Spanish certainly has a right to be a bit irritated as they have strict FFP rules and PSG has none.

Absolute insane transfer window, but let's not forget 5 of these players all cam for 0 € paid in transfer money. The money they had to pay to the players, their families and agents will most likely be insane though. But hey, if city can cook their books, so can PSG.

 

[Idxomer]

I wouldn't call it lazy. It's extremely disrespectful when we are talking about 34 years old players that aren't in their physical prime and have given everything for 17-18 years, challenged themselves every seasons in order to maintain a level of consistency and excellence that we will probably never see in our lifetime.
Yes, Ronaldo moved in a league that is probably slightly easier physically but he is still working hard, it's in the context of his mileage and it's obviously not a challenge but simply a transition motivated by passion for the game and also money.

I know, just making a point that it's easy to fall into false and lazy narratives for any top player.

There are also too many issues that come into play when they're making these decisions that we have no clue about.

 

[ericPSG]

We were the better team Head to head. Martial is the reason we didn't destroy them.

Last year UCL group, PSG was trash.
First game of ligue 1 was one week after the final 8. No preparation at all.
Half the team had COVID in Ibiza at the start of the seaon
We had injured player at our weakest position : defensive midfield and full back

At that time PSG lost several times against weak Ligue 1 teams.
Congrats to have dominated against the PSG on that form. Even though It was not enough to win the group

And since then, It's not only Messi coming but also Hakimi, Sergio Ramos, Donnarumma and Wijnaldum

We'll see how stable PSG will be. Wijnaldum will be key with Paredes / Gueye. But It will be a completely different PSG from last year.

 

[nuanced]

18 years ago, PSG gave Barca one Ronaldinho.

Now, 18 years on, Barca give them Messi in return.

Nah I'm trying to make this feel like a full circle moment but I can't because it isn't. I can't believe he's gone to PSG ffs

You're not far off the mark. If Messi hits the ground running, then along with their other signings this summer, PSG's global popularity might see a similar boost as Barsa's did around 2005.

 

[DutchCruijff]

So Messi is at fault Barcelona made all those fishy deals and have all those huge salaries. Sounds legit. Messi contract is a benchmark? Nobody pressured Barcelona to give those kind of contracts. They bought Pjanić and pay him a huge salary and he isn't even playing ffs.

He's partly at fault for such an obscene contract, yes, especially in light of him kicking up a fuss in 2016. Financial mismanagement on Barca's part, pure greed on Messi's part. No one is absolving Barca's management of blame, they are primarily at fault.

I think you're struggling with the "wage structure" and "contract benchmarks". These are basics in business/finance and in football too. Messi's contract broke the wage structure and provided a very high benchmark for contract negotiations for other players and their agencies all of which leading to an unsustainable situation. COVID was the blow to tip it all over the edge.

Had Messi's contract not been as high, most certainly neither would Griezmann's or Coutinho's and thus the situation far more sustainable.