Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by KM, May 24, 2018.
Always wanted him since I've opened this thread.
I think Tonali would be the best among the new crop of midfielders Italy have. The guy looks boardline a generational talent in my opinion
Not the most exciting signing, but I'm probably being hypocritical, considering I'm in the camp of wanting to sign players who would see United as a step up, who we can mould and shape, and who would still have their peak years to come, both in terms of ability but also around contract expectations.
Thank you @settembrini for your views. It’s interesting as certain players get hyped more than justified and that’s certainly true of some recent Italian players such as Belotti, Jorginho and co. Also Italy based players like Milinkovic-Savic carry the same hype. I think Italian clubs can be shrewd operators and are good at selling their players. You’re right that many of them can’t translate their game to the Prem.
Certain leagues are safer bets for us to buy from; specifically Ligue Une, though this is obviously a generalisation.
I do hope our scouting system is functioning well and we make wise decisions this Summer. Young, hungry, good value yes but ultimately the quality is the biggest thing. Buying lots of cheap average players is false economy.
Been impressed with both players. Not seen much of Pelligrini but not seen anything in Roma games that stands out, he just seems to work hard and be decent to me and totally against the "£30m no brainer, worth a punt" type comments, sounds like a fair few of LVGs transfer moves.
Also, these in depth reviews of Tonali....a Serie B player stood out for Italy youth. Looks great on youtube but where an earth are people seeing him to make such analysis?????
Tried to watch Barella whenever possible after we were linked with him before and he really does stand out for me. Know its not a comparison many to warm to, but for me always been a good cm at Villa, City and Liverpool and wasted years played out of position....but if you think of the job Milner does for Liverpool, Barella with more legs, lung busting runs and quality could do a similar job for us and if £45m is the fee as rumoured, for a 22 year old, that is a no brainer for me. Wouldnt mind Zaniola either as his partner, think they would be too very good signings that could be great value for money.
Personally dont buy into this Italians not performing in the premiership. Italians dont seem to move country so much a but like our own country....but though a lot were at the end of there careers, there have been quite a lot have been good. Most of the ones that havent done very well, didnt look like great players in the first place....who has actually been a huge flop? Been a fair few Serie A ones like Schevchenko and Veron but who are the Italians?
When Utd won the Champions League in 1999 five of the starters were non British Isles.
When Utd won the Champions League in 2008 five of the starters were non British Isles.
When United lost in Barcelona this year five of the starters were non British Isles.
Is there actually a United Way? Does anyone know what it is? In a global game should it be consigned to history if it even exists?
I do not know Pellegrini well, but I think its these type of signings we should make. A well-rounded, talented footballer between 21-24 with a few years experience from a good league. If we have been following the player for a few years and have enough information we should be able to make a good assessment on whether his potential.
If everyone agreed that he is a future superstar he would not cost €30 mill and we would not need scouts and analysts.
Are you saying there is or isn't a pattern (United way) of fielding a core of British/Irish players? The examples you've given suggest that we have done consistently with some success...
We already have a core of British/Irish players (Shaw, Smalling, Jones, Young, Lingard, Mctominay, Rashy etc). What were the benefits of that? So instead of aiming for a British/Irish core why not aim of having a group of talented/committed players irrespective of nationality instead?
Because they'll want contracts they dont deserve or they'll be off to a top spanish club like De Gea and Pogba?
Players consider top foreign clubs if they are wanted by them in the first place. If DDG or Pogba leave then they would join the likes of Gareth Bale, Steve Mcmanaman, Micheal Owen, Mark Hughes, Ian Rush, Paul Ince and David Beckham who joined those clubs as well. Roy Keane toyed with the idea as well but United gave him the salary he wanted and he remained. The only ones who are 100% certain that they will remain here are those who aren't wanted by those clubs. Players like Shaw, Jones, Smalling, Jesse Lingard and co. Its easy to be a good servant to this club when the alternative is, well, Sunderland, Everton or China.
Honestly Id rather see us buy players with the talent and the attitude to attract the likes of Juventus, Real and co then having players whom these clubs wouldn't touch with a barge pole
They are shit players. So are our non British players, though.
We need a good core of British players - this lot aren't good enough. That doesn't mean to only have British signings either.
Shaw McTominay and Rashford will still be a part of it too. Hopefully the rest have lesser roles or sold.
What we need is a core of good players with the right attitude to succeed in football irrespective of nationality. As proven by Jesse, Jones and Co nationality means nothing
Those are a minuscule amount of the British core players that have come through United. United wanted rid of the players they sold.
I think it's important for a British club to have British players playing - with a good mix of foreign players too.
Some will agree and some will not, we both agree the quality of player needs to improve either way.
Beckham didn't want to leave that's for sure.
While I would love to have quality English players playing for United, I wouldn't pass on talented non English players. Besides, City have only Sterling as their only English player in their first 11 and they're doing fine with their players.
As long as the team is competing fine for trophies, no player would want to leave.
Not true, plenty of players leave from trophy competing teams to higher wage paying teams.
I tend to agree if we are competing and playing well then who really cares. But for our rebuild I would hope that we wouldn't completely neglect British players - just my preference.
Sure its a coincidence that the players Real/Inter needed suddenly started acting out forcing us to sell them. David Beckham (English, Class of 92 yada yada) wouldn't even contemplate listening to Barcelona's offer even though it was superior to that of Real.
Also note football has changed. Gaz said that as a kid he couldn't contemplate a football career outside of OT. It was a non option for him. These days if a kid has talent then he can leave Carrington Strømsgodset or Manchester City academy stadium and slot straight into Juventus's, Real's or Dortmund's squad. Agents are targeting kids at a young age and these agents give kids options. Also players with limited talent would focus on their game and lay low hoping no one notice their limitations. Can you imagine a Philip Neville opening a clothing brand like Jesse is doing?
Choosing nationality over talent & attitude is silly. Id rather have 1 Ronaldo who comes here, he drags us to success and leave when the time is right then 11 Mcnairs.
Not a fan.
It's the same problem I had with Kagawa, Mata and Mkhi in that he's too lightweight.
Silva? Bernardo Silva? Messi? His build is misleading, he's going to be a great player.
They are very strong players who can keep the ball under pressure. Heck, Cazorla was one of the strongest Cms I've seen under pressure and he's probably smaller than them all. I've seen a bit of Roma and this guy and he doesn't have that quality.
Sir Alex fell out with the players and got rid.
Well they're looking to build a team around him so there must be some ability there? Plus, he's really young and already being talked about as future captain potential.
They made difficult for him to keep them and he got rid. Good riddance I'd say
I'm not saying he's rubbish or anything, to be fair. I just think we need more players who can withstand opposition players pressing them which, from what I've seen, isn't one of this guy's qualities.
We need a CM like Lobotka who can do this:
and he's just as small as Lorenzo but is so strong.
Yes of course, but I think it was believing their own hype before making advances towards foreign teams. Sir Alex got rid when he knew they were out of control
The problem is thats all he does. He's an average passer, has minimal contribution defensively, 0 goals and 1 assist this season
I've watched Celta a lot because I enjoy watching him play and this true. Defensively, he's pretty invisible, and has poor stats, but his ability to evade pressure alone brings so much to the team in working the ball out from the back and getting out of fight spots.
His passing is very good between the lines (hits outside of the boot passes for fun like Scholes/Modric) but yeah, he doesn't have the best range.
I think he can improve on these issues, though, so would be all for taking a punt on him.
Yeah have to say I’ve never seen him play a game, just YouTube clips and they are really underwhelming, which worries me if they are designed to show the best of him and you’ve got people using the new buzz phrase “generational talent” about him. The standard he is playing at looks awful to boot.
Zaniola does look decent from what I’ve seen, he’d be an interesting 1 to pick up, more so than Lorenzo but we do need to address the DM position.
Saw a bit of him for Italian youth and to be fair, fact he has even been called up to the Italy full squad probably says something. Think he looks very good from youtube myself, but that is youtube highlights after all. Agree the opposition in Serie B didnt look great though
Tonali YouTube compilation isn't underwhelming one bit. His passing ranges , throughballs, techniques, movement and quick decision all looked terrific from the clip. Far better than what can be seen from Pogba. He looks a terrific playmaker already.
Serie B could be said to be inferior to Serie A but same was said about Verratti while he was plying his trade for Pescara in Serie B before PSG took their chance on him. The fact that Brescia got promoted should lay credence to the fact that they must have been good enough to have topped the Serie B table.
Someone made a clip on his performance against Leece who are actually second on the table and what really impressed me most was his position and movement apart from his obvious vision and quick decision making. I stated in Blind's thread on how Frenkie should have picked up any of Alli and Moura's runs through the middle but he failed to that. Tonali on the other hand constantly picked up the runs of the opposition's central attacking midfielder/support striker through the middle. If you watched 2.47 and 3.39 of the below clip. It was a total master class performance from him all around, especially his vertical passes, quick decision making, spatial awareness and defensive awareness. And it wasn't like he was given plenty of space to operate. He was mostly ruffled throughout and Leece looked to have been playing a defensive game yet he was able to find space and dictate the play.
I didnt say it was underwhelming, the person I responded to did. I said he looks impressive on youtube but it is youtube. A total masterclass performance you are giving from a few minutes of youtube or am I misreading? As I said, I think he looks like a very good young player and is obviously very highly rated, but I would need to see him in a few games to make a real judgement, yet I am seeing these in depth analysis of him from people and the question I originally asked is where an earth are people seeing him play full games to make these judgements????.....can I ask this of you?
To be honest, I haven't seen him in a game but I have no problem judging players from their individual touches in a game and that's why I'm always particular about individual touches in each game (a tough opposition would do). For example, anyone who haven't seen Mbappe in a game and had just watched his individual touches in a game would already know his high point and low point but compilation highlight can be deceiving.
Yes I agree he looks to have quality, would like to see more of him. Its some of the once in a generation talents and in depth tactical analysis, you cant get that froma highlights video. Hell you could mae a youtube video of our last few games lasting 8mins and it could look like we are playing really good football...at a stretch yes, but it could be done
Yes I know that highlight can be deceiving however from the look of it, he's got good touch and ball control hence can manipulate his way out of tight press, that won't suddenly stop, would it? His two footedness, vision, passing range, spatial awareness, first-time passes, work rates and defensive awareness could be seen too and that won't suddenly disappear from his game after we had signed him, right? He looks strong, agilie and looks to have been playing against a team who was parking the bus in that clip yet found his way past them. All that won't suddenly disappear if he comes here, would it?
It's not like he's been playing against kids in a youth league but has been squaring up against physically imposing adults in the Serie B. His team isn't languishing in the bottom of the table and he's been major part of a team that topped the Serie B table and as a result, has now been promoted. I'm ready to bank on him. He can't do worse than the immobile ball hog Matic, less technical one footed Fred and positionally suspect ball hogging languid Pogba (Pogba's first touch passes and movement ain't pleasing by the way). After all, Verratti went from a Serie B player to dominate the midfield for PSG against Barca's prime midfield of Xavi and Iniesta, at the age of 19yrs.
Seen some weird posts in here that he's like Ander, but he's not much like him. He's far more of a creator and far less of a ball winner. In Roma's champions league campaign he had an impressive 3.2 key passes per game in 4 starts with 2 sub appearances against Real Madrid, Viktoria Plizen, CSKA Moscow and Porto.
Thats 5th out of all players behind Kroos, Neymar, Trippier and Depay.
Per 90 mins he's actually joint first of any player to participate in more than 3 matches, along with Pizzi. Both Pellegrini and Pizzi were at 4.4 key passes per 90 mins in 6 appearances.
11 of those key passes came via crosses, 4 crosses, 4 throughballs, 4 freekicks and 4 misc/general passes.
The most throughball key passes in the champions league this season has been Messi with 5.
Joint 2nd are :
Eriksen, Tadic, Zayich, Henderson and Pellegrini all with their 4. Pogba delivered 3.
Started off as one of two deep midfielders in a 4231 against Genoa this weekend. Did a very good job according to their supporters. Will be an interesting player to keep an eye on this season.
Might be a player Man Utd (still) keep an eye on. Should be. Perfect profile for a club like Man Utd.
«Passing map» from the game. Indicate a progressive player.
Wasn't he available with a decent release clause too?
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