Ludo Draft QF - Moby vs 2mufc0

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

VS

.......................................... TEAM MOBY ............................................................................................ TEAM 2MUFC0 ........................................​

TEAM MOBY

We are playing an expansive 4-4-1-1 formation with absolutely devastating wingers and a front two that can win any game against any defense on the planet. We plan to play a fast, direct, high tempo approach, using the wingers and the fullbacks to get the ball forward and having the greatest player of all time linking everything together.

The starts with Ruud Krol in his sweeper incarnation in defense, where he was an elite reader of the game, excellent positioning, tackling as well as a great organiser at the back. With his calmness and composure at the back along with his quality on the ball and bringing the ball out of defense, we would never be under pressure at the back and be able to kick start attacks as soon as we win the ball. Partnering him is Marius Tresor, a complete CB who himself wasn't shabby on the ball and could drive forward with it, but in defense is was a standout presence in terms of 1v1 defense, physicality, agility and quality marking. He complements Krol very well here.

Out wide on the left is Giacinto Facchetti - quite possibly the greatest left back of all time. An enormous defender, Facchetti manned the flank all by himself and could absolutely hack down any threat presented to him. He will be looking to support the wingers when they cut inside and double up the defender when we go forward. Similarly on the right, we have Wim Suurbier as the tireless presence up and down the flank, supporting Best on the overlap and having great energy, stamina, pace to track his opponents in defense.

In midfield, we have the strong presence of Graeme Souness, the lynchpin of Liverpool's success in the 80s and a colossal midfielder who would be immense in both phases of the game. Partnering him is the metronome of the team, the Dutch maestro Willem Van Hanegem, not only was he one of the key cogs in the Dutch machine of the 70s, his work with Feyenoord taking them to a European Cup win was the stuff of legends. His passing, workrate, mental toughness and the ability to take the game by the scruff of the neck made him an absolute no brainer in those teams as their very midfield general. Journalist Brain Glanville chose Van Hanegem, and not Cruyff, as his player of the tournament in 1974, an opinion shared by others.


The two wingers are the absolute stars of the show here. George Best and Dragan Dzagic occupy the two flanks and both have the claim to be the greatest wingers of all time on their respective flanks. No need to introduce Best on here, the fifth Beatle, absolute phenomenon and in many eyes the greatest player to have played for this club, embodying the United spirit of fearless entertainment. Similarly Dzagic, an juggernaut for club and country throughout his career, dominating multiple international tournaments with his irresistible dribbling, close control, passing and crossing. The two of them will be penetrating down the flanks and bombarding service towards the front two.

And the front two are: Pelé and Gerd Müller. If you think you could find better big game pedigree of the absolute highest level than that, I'd like to see you try. The Brazilian, as usual, would be the heart of the team, constantly combining with the wide players as well as the two CMs, especially Van Hanegem who should create a marvellous partnership with him. Unmarkable, unstoppable be it with his feet or in the air, he will be the biggest threat in the game and can absolutely storm the opposition in a matter of minutes. And he will have none other than Der Bomber in front of him to finish off the chances created by him and the two wingers, the greatest finisher the game has seen, and one who has been the difference between and losing in countless huge tournaments for Germany and Munich.


TEAM 2MUFC0

The team is filled with individual quality and the best players of their respective generations. The team is flexible able to play powerful direct football as well dig in and defend when required and hit with speed on the counter. For the most part the plan is to soak up pressure and hit on the counter with speed with the 3 Balon d'Or winners Rivaldo, Shevchenko and Luisito given Moby's lack of work rate on the wings, counter attacking at the right moments will expose this weakness particularly on the weaker right side of his. These counters will be supported by the impeccable wing play of Cafu and Zanetti.

Moby has a fabulous team but i feel it can be beaten this way, furthermore you couldn't ask for a better set of defenders and midfielders to defend against his attack. I would also expect my midfield to get the better of his.

The formation graphic is self explanatory however some key points of the team are as following:

• Luis Suarez Miramontes comes into the team in his Balon d'Or winning position as attacking midfielder, his job is to play Rivaldo and Sheva in. He will also use his intelligence to get into scoring positions uptop. Given we will be playing counter attacking football he will also be able to drop into midfield and help out when required.
• Rivaldo provides GOAT level threat from the left hand side with particular instruction to expose Zambrotta/Suuriber. He will have the best available support down the wing from Zanetti.
• Width will be provided on the right side by one of the greatest right backs of all time Cafu, he was a force to be reckoned with and his surging runs will create space for Sheva to exploit and also provide service for the forwards and surging runs into the box from Luisito, Keane and Lothar. On the left side playing a similar role is Zanetti, both full backs were also incredible defensively and able to contribute in defence and midfield when required.
• The Central midfield can't be bettered, with 2 dynamos in Keane and Matthaus i would back them to dominate most midfields and contribute greatly in both phases of the game. While Van Hanegem was an excellent midfielder i can seem him struggling to keep up with these two due to his relative lack of mobility.
• Passarella will be in his element here with unrivalled defensive cover from Rio & Nesta he will be able to play his natural game and bomb forward and contribute to the build up when the opportunities arise when on the counter.
• The defensive core of Rio & Nesta has very little weakness and with their pace,power and intelligence will be able to handle the top attackers in Moby's team.
• The mental side of the game rarely gets considered in drafts, this team is stacked with big personalities and mentally strong players to take the team over the line and get through tough situations. Because of this the team would be very difficult to beat and this detail can make the difference in a tight game.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Moby @2mufc0 All the best

 

[harms]

Wow, it's actually a pretty even game despite of Moby's ridiculous front four.

 

[Jim Beam]

Kill me, but I will never understand the need to put back 3 and shunt defenders like Nesta and Ferdinand in it. 3-5-2 can mostly be hurt in the areas behind wing backs and Moby has Dzajic and Best to attack it.

2mufc0 has advantage in midfield though.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Why would you not start Hulshoff

Hulshoff, Suurbier and Krol. That is a proven 3 continuous European Cup winning combo with 3 cleensheets in all three finals. Krol wasn't there in the first one in 1971, but still.

Was really glad with Moby's reinforcements just for this. Broke my heart.

 

[Gio]

Can see the thinking behind a 3-5-2 to try and swamp that super-stacked attack, while a number of 2mufc0's players would be devastating in transitions. Moby's left flank is impeccable. Good tactical battle this.

 

[Enigma_87]

The only player in Moby's team that looks out of place is Suurbier. Rest of the team still is monstrous.

Love 2mufc0 team as well, he has done great to narrow the difference down, but faced Moby little to early.

I'd back Moby's front four to score more than the opposition.

 

[Gio]

Kill me, but I will never understand the need to put back 3 and shunt defenders like Nesta and Ferdinand in it.

To be fair Nesta was class in a back three at Euro 2000.

 

[Indnyc]

You can't ask for a better back 5 to deal with Moby's front 4

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

How good was Zanetti as an attacking WB from left?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

You can't ask for a better back 5 to deal with Moby's front 4

Back 6 please

 

[Jim Beam]

To be fair Nesta was class in a back three at Euro 2000.

As a sweeper.

Maybe am too harsh, but it always look to me when you line up like this that you are adding names and numbers to your defence which look good on paper, but in reality they pretty much never operated that way.
I mean, we look, even small misfits, in attack and midfield all the time.

2mufc0 team is still fantastic with that midfield being scary prospect. And after all, not many will agree with my remarks regarding his defence.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

And after all, not many will agree with my remarks regarding his defence.

Nothing like that.

I think a back 5 and sweeper role deserves a thread and discussion on it's own. In fact, I was having one such discussion yesterday night itself with a mate.

How do these sweeper roles fit into the offside rule which was amended less than 30 years ago? Should with modern tactics, Passarella not be behind the stoppers with an upward arrow but be in the same line like a proper modern back 3?

I also agree with you about Nesta and Rio.

Rio in particular who I have seen week in week out. I didn't fancy him covering out wide. Remember when Bellamy made him look a fool from outwide against City scoring twice? Just an example, but you are right in general. Their reputation makes us use them at will which probably would only change if voter outlook on the 5-2-3 changes.

 

[2mufc0]

Kill me, but I will never understand the need to put back 3 and shunt defenders like Nesta and Ferdinand in it. 3-5-2 can mostly be hurt in the areas behind wing backs and Moby has Dzajic and Best to attack it.

2mufc0 has advantage in midfield though.

It may seem like that but there are tactical reasons why and also we are restricted in terms of personal in such a draft. The plan is to clog up the central areas and make it difficult as possible for his attackers. I also think the back 5 releases Zanetti, Cafu and Passarela.

I also think drafts would get boring fast if we just limit players to certain formations and positions. What needs to be looked at whether the players have the skillset to play the role assigned, which imo all of my players can.

Imo the biggest talking point should be Mobys right side, who is up against my best attacker and being caught on the counter with those wingers who won't track back.

 

[green_smiley]

Boring = winning

Facht

 

[Moby]

Like I said last game. Having a narrow formation against the kind of wings that are there in my team is a bold call. After all it was the 4231 that was the kryptonite of 5 at the back in the modern game and both my flanks are going to absolutely be on fire here with that much space given to none other than George Best and Dragan Dzajic. And they have Wim Suurbier and Giacinto Facchetti in support.

Someone like Cafu alone will be eviscerated having to deal with a combo like Facchetti-Dzajic and there's no CB who is natural out wide to help like someone like Thuram would have been.

It's a massive route to goal for me and we haven't yet talked about Pele and Gerd Muller. Arguably the two greatest goalscorers of all time with insane big game records and tormenting the best of defenses, they will be devastating with the kind of regular service they will receive from out wide. Thats an unbelievable pairing and the two would love linking up with each other.

Lastly against a GOAT no. 10 like Pele you need a top tier man marker dedicated to stopping them. Neither Keane nor Matthaus at their best would like to play that role not without sacrificing a huge chunk of their game and that gives further freedom to Pele to weave his magic.

 

[2mufc0]

Not playing a high line here so we won't be exposed from balls played behind, i would trust the quality and quantity of defenders to handle things in deeper postions, then having the players to string up quick counters will destroy the opposition committing so many players forward and having a low work rate. The midfield should also be able to over power the opposition.

Having a dedicated DM watching the no. 10 is just draft fixation, real life has shown this isn't necessary. Whichever zone Pele is in the midfielder/defender will handle it, man marking isn't required.

 

[Moby]

Not playing a high line here so we won't be exposed from balls played behind, i would trust the quality and quantity of defenders to handle things in deeper postions, then having the players to string up quick counters will destroy the opposition committing so many players forward and having a low work rate. The midfield should also be able to over power the opposition.

Having a dedicated DM watching the no. 10 is just draft fixation, real life has shown this isn't necessary. Whichever zone Pele is in the midfielder/defender will handle it, man marking isn't required.

I don't have Ronaldo or Henry up front who were reliant on pace and space behind the defense. Instead I have the absolutely ideal attack against a deep defensive setup.

Having the greatest #9 of all time when it comes to ability inside the 18 yard box is precisely what you need against a deep backline. He needed half a second and half a yard to decide a world cup final or a CL final, he decided countless massive games needing hardly a huge amount of chances or running behind the backline. It's impossible to stop him from scoring who is arguably the most clinical big game goalscorer the game has seen.

Similarly Pele had enormous physical and aerial ability, as did Muller as well ofcourse and having top tier aerial ability is another great aspect when trying to score against a deep defense. Having to stop both Pele AND Muller from scoring is a nigh on impossible task. Doesnt matter how they achieve that, but they have the records to show that by hook or by crook they will decide the game.

Along with that, another critical aspect to break a deep defense is having quality width to stretch the defenders and create space in the middle and again there couldn't be better flanks than the ones here for implementing that. Both Best and Dzajic are amongst the greatest dribblers of all time, which would be a huge advantage for me when playing against a deep defense. Both of them made their careers by taking the ball past a crowd of players and there's nothing to suggest they won't be doing that here. That again will force your defenders out of position especially with the likes of Facchetti providing massive threat from out wide as well and there's little chance your defense will keep its shape for majority of the game.

I honestly couldn't envisage a better attack to break past a deep sitting defense than the weapons on show here.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Moby mid and attacking lineup with that choice of players looks like something that will in practice end up more like a very potent attacking 4-2-4 with a big gap between midfield (due to the lack of pace there and VH penchant for the long pass) and the front four a lot of the time. Modern 4-2-3-1 usually has a bigger number of midfielderish, harder pressing players or more mobility in the midfield. It's the clearly stronger attacking team, but vulnerable enough looking on the counter and without the extra man in midfield for added tempo control that i see this as a very close game.

 

[Synco]

Very interesting debate about back 3s in here. Warrants a thread of its own, imo.

Both players holding their own well in this discussion, I'm still undecided.

One thing I've asked myself is how Müller would fare against a pure zonal defense (which I assume it is), instead of having a dedicated marker for most of the game. I assume it would play to his strengths (intuitive reading of situations, reaction time, surprising movement), especially when there are multiple huge threats the defenders have to manage simultaneously. Then again, when 2mufc0's defense/CM sits deep with the fullbacks in position, it is a wall that will offer very little space and time.

I'm not sure about @Moby's compactness in defensive transition & counter prevention, can you say a few words about that?

 

[2mufc0]

No mention by Moby on how he's going to deal with the counters or how Suuriber the weakest player on the pitch will deal with Rivaldo with little support , this is a clear way to goal for me.

His midfield lacks athleticism and can see them offering little support when caught out on the counter, it's set for Matthaus and Keane to over power the midfield. This will also allow Suarez to play defence splitting passes to the pacey Shevchenko and also burst into scoring positions himself.

And if Zanetti and Cafu are unable to put up resistance in defence I fail to see how any other full backs would, there is real life precedent of Zanetti shutting down Messi who is generally ranked higher than both wingers here . It's just not realistic for Moby to say his attackers will succeed just because of their names. There doesn't appear to be a robust tactical plan.

 

[2mufc0]

Very interesting debate about back 3s in here. Warrants a thread of its own, imo.

Both players holding their own well in this discussion, I'm still undecided.

One thing I've asked myself is how Müller would fare against a pure zonal defense (which I assume it is), instead of having a dedicated marker for most of the game. I assume it would play to his strengths (intuitive reading of situations, reaction time, surprising movement), especially when there are multiple huge threats the defenders have to manage simultaneously. Then again, when 2mufc0's defense/CM sits deep with the fullbacks in position, it is a wall that will offer very little space and time.

The one thing that works in my favour here is that all of my defenders were great readers of the game and also superb organisers, even the two central midfielders have these traits. Even the goalkeeper was a top class organiser/communicator, all these little things will contribute. They were also big personalities with the mentality to concentrate throughout the 90 mins which is crucial when playing the defensive /counter system and not being caught out with clever movements.

 

[Enigma_87]

Moby mid and attacking lineup with that choice of players looks like something that will in practice end up more like a very potent attacking 4-2-4 with a big gap between midfield (due to the lack of pace there and VH penchant for the long pass) and the front four a lot of the time. Modern 4-2-3-1 usually has a bigger number of midfielderish, harder pressing players or more mobility in the midfield. It's the clearly stronger attacking team, but vulnerable enough looking on the counter and without the extra man in midfield for added tempo control that i see this as a very close game.

I disagree. Pele is a brilliant link up between attack and midfield. He often gets underestimated for his work rate, but to me it's bang on 4-2-3-1. Pele can press and also track back, have no doubt about that.

 

[Synco]

I disagree. Pele is a brilliant link up between attack and midfield. He often gets underestimated for his work rate, but to me it's bang on 4-2-3-1. Pele can press and also track back, have no doubt about that.

And Müller had an outstanding defensive workrate when the setup called for it. I have these two down as doing their share, and I've seen both committed to counter pressing, which is very useful. But it depends on team work, and it's mainly Djazic & Best and wing support I can't really judge (and possible repercussions should they not track back).

The whole setup of a dominant vs a counter team is also something I'm thinking about. My layman reasoning is that the counter team isn't in the position to have that many players upfront initially after winning the ball, which is why the dominant team doesn't necessarily needs that many players to have them covered. But it still would have to be right ones for the job.

The one thing that works in my favour here is that all of my defenders were great readers of the game and also superb organisers, even the two central midfielders have these traits. Even the goalkeeper was a top class organiser/communicator, all these little things will contribute. They were also big personalities with the mentality to concentrate throughout the 90 mins which is crucial when playing the defensive /counter system and not being caught out with clever movements.

Yes, they're great individually. This, together with the deep & tight setup, is the reason why they have a chance at all, imo. But I think every defense, no matter how good, will be somewhat vulnerable against this attack. They can create/exploit space where there normally isn't any.

I also think the discussion about the back three may give hints about potential weaknesses (especially the questions which players are/aren't good fits for the outside positions & 4231 vs 532). But that discussion has yet to take place, so it won't affect this game for my part.

 

[Gio]

Moby mid and attacking lineup with that choice of players looks like something that will in practice end up more like a very potent attacking 4-2-4 with a big gap between midfield (due to the lack of pace there and VH penchant for the long pass) and the front four a lot of the time. Modern 4-2-3-1 usually has a bigger number of midfielderish, harder pressing players or more mobility in the midfield. It's the clearly stronger attacking team, but vulnerable enough looking on the counter and without the extra man in midfield for added tempo control that i see this as a very close game.

I agree to a point in terms of a modern 4-2-3-1 but like @Enigma_87 I can see the rationale for the structure here with Pele reprising his 1970 role.

What I like about @Moby's set-up is the central midfield double pivot (which wards off some of the transition threat posed by 2mufc) and the idea of getting the ball forwards early to the front four. Souness and Van Hanegem were both sharp and purposeful in feeding the ball into the feet of their attack.

Tactically both teams look solid to me.

 

[Enigma_87]

I agree to a point in terms of a modern 4-2-3-1 but like @Enigma_87 I can see the rationale for the structure here with Pele reprising his 1970 role.

What I like about @Moby's set-up is the central midfield double pivot (which wards off some of the transition threat posed by 2mufc) and the idea of getting the ball forwards early to the front four. Souness and Van Hanegem were both sharp and purposeful in feeding the ball into the feet of their attack.

Tactically both teams look solid to me.

Yup, that's fair. It's a classic 4-2-3-1 vs 5-3-2. Advantage on the flanks vs compact center and looking for openings on counter.

Both set ups are well accustomed to the job in hand. I especially like Passarella here who can drive forward and 2mufc0 still have a very solid backline with 2 tactically excellent CB's. The teams are excellent and stylistically you can pin point some mild issues, but in terms of greater picture I wouldn't find any players that stand out as a sore thumb.

 

[Moby]

Good game, @2mufc0. Unsurprisingly the tune changes when the voting comes around.

 

[2mufc0]

Good game, @2mufc0. Unsurprisingly the tune changes when the voting comes around.

Cheers, good game, could have gone either way.

 

[harms]

Wow! I liked 2mufc's team a little more on a personal level, but couldn't bring myself to vote against Pelé-Müller duo with Best and Džajić on the wings... if I was forced to vote I would've gone for Moby. Didn't expect this result.

 

[Moby]

Wow! I liked 2mufc's team a little more on a personal level, but couldn't bring myself to vote against Pelé-Müller duo with Best and Džajić on the wings... if I was forced to vote I would've gone for Moby. Didn't expect this result.

I did.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Wow! I liked 2mufc's team a little more on a personal level, but couldn't bring myself to vote against Pelé-Müller duo with Best and Džajić on the wings... if I was forced to vote I would've gone for Moby. Didn't expect this result.

I had decided to not vote on games till I have been eliminated.

As a neutral, thought Moby would win by a landslide but seeing 2mufc0 still fighting till the end, couldn't help myself but vote out of curiosity.