Ludo Draft R1: Onenil/Invictus vs Jim Beam

Who will win this match?


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  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Team Onenil Invictus



The 1970s were fast times of wild and memorable characters. Before the era of big money but after the first round of televised World Cups, the North American Soccer League embodies much of fun and eccentricity of this beautiful era.

Boasting the best players of the decade like Cruyff and Beckenbauer we return you to these wild and fun times. A time before cynical monetization where you can connect with your inner child and just root for your favorite players.

Our defense of Santos - Kaiser and his trusted lieutenant Schwarzenbeck - Alberto forms an immense platform for the team, with three or the quartet being enshrined in the World Team of the 20th Century:



In goal, Maier was the core of Germany’s World Cup and European Championship winning defense and Bayern’s trio of European Cups. In total, they have won 6 World Cups between them — 2 of them as captains, and as such, they can handle a variety of World Class attacking combinations thrown at them by the opposition team.

Our midfield of Falcão, Neeskens and Breitner is one of the best all-around midfields possible in this draft or others. Like Beckenbauer in defense, Falcão is going to be the primary playmaker of this portion of the pitch given his exemplary range of passing and architectural ability. Flanking him are two of the most complete and resolute box-to-box midfielders in football who could also peel wider to fortify the spaces in certain phases of the game — with Breitner having special chemistry with Kaiser and Neeskens with Cruyff, which is a sweet added bonus.

Cruyff, the quintessential False 9, leads our attack as the primary playmaker of that portion of the pitch, and is complemented by Kubala and Robben. Kubala targets the opposition’s weakest zone and can maximize his output (worth bearing in mind that he scored 280 goals in 345 appearances with Barcelona). And Robben operates like a winger who dribbles past opponents and creates all sorts of trouble while taking some of the attention away from Cruyff

Team Jim Beam

Formation: 3-4-1-2;

Playing style: compact, counter-attacking

In this formation one of the centre midfielders (Desailly) acts as a sweeper in midfield and stays deeper than the other midfielders, the other alongside of him is more creative with a good engine (Häßler) feeding the forwards and the flanks. It also requires a great playmaker as an attacking midfielder (Laudrup) and suited to play on the counter-attack.

It also requires central defender to be good with the ball at his feet and willing to bring it forward. In other words, perfectly suited for Sammer in which position he excelled and won Ballon d'Or.





The tactics is also familiar to Sammer as it is partly based on 1997 Borussia Dortmund tactics which led them to Champions league triumph against much superior Juventus team on the paper.




In the defensive phase: A well-executed, modern and efficient defensive scheme led by Sammer in the position of a sweeper which gave him Ballon d'Or, partnered by two fantastic, world-class defenders on each side in Burgnich and Ruggeri. The team will play in compact and fairly deep defensive style in which they will, as soon as the ball is won, try to counter-attack their opponent through the middle or the flanks.

In the attacking phase: As soon as the ball is won the team will attack with devastating speed and try to get to the other team's penalty area and in the danger zone through surging runs from defence by Sammer, or middle consisting of brilliant and creative passers such as Laudrup and Haesller.

Butragueno will be always on the move trying to disorganize the other team's defence, while Batistuta will be in his best position as a focal point of attack.
 

Moby

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Not sure how that onenil-Invi midfield is supposed to function. One of those three looks redundant at the very least, and would have been more balanced with the presence of an anchor instead of having essentially three box-to-box players. The likes of Falcao and Neeskens had the likes of Cerezo, Jansen, Haan etc plugging the hole in midfield and being positionally sound, allowing these players the freedom to bomb forward. The lack of a DM there is a bit off-putting.
 

Synco

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@oneniltothearsenal @Invictus
Wow, that team stands out even in an all time draft.

Interesting choice to put Robben on the left (where he of course played many times), and the role you laid out for him in the OP makes sense. Having him play inverted from the right would have worked just as well with a false 9 CF, imo. But that approx. part seems to be reserved for Kubala (who was two-footed, if I'm not mistaken), and the overall setup of the front three looks really good at first sight.

Could you say a bit more on how you want Kubala to play on the right and interact with Cruyff & Carlos Alberto?
 

Jim Beam

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Good luck @oneniltothearsenal and @Invictus (not that I think you particularly need it, mind)

Complimentary things:
- it's a juggernaut already in round 1
- someone asked (don't think if I actually answered) about Cruyff & Der Keiser. I think it is the GOAT with which Cruyff would like to play the most
- always wanted to pair Cruyff with Neeskens and Falcao

You will certainly dominate the ball and possession, but few things I don't like...
One is Falcao with two b2b as Moby already mentioned. In the offense, it is easy to imagine that work. In defence and while am on the counter I can see Laudrup and Butragueno (he loved to drop deep, acted like an extra playmaker and his link-up play was fantastic) having space to recieve the ball and hurting you. DM with Falcao and Neeskens on each side would work better imo despite a lot of energy that all three bring to the table.

Absolutely prefer Robben on the right side in this set up, especially as you have Cruyff playing false 9 and Carlos Alberto behind him making overlapping runs which would be impossible to defend. Robben played a lot on the left and was good, but this way you make that side more predictable and easier to defend with the way my team is set up.

My team will definitely have more trouble with Kubala on the other side, but overall don't think either Kubala or Robben will track back a lot which could be added problem while defending me on the counter.

And yeah, I wish I have a bit better wingers/wing-backs. No point saying otherwise.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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And yeah, I wish I have a bit better wingers/wing-backs. No point saying otherwise.
I don't know about the left side, but for the right side, Hargreaves is perfect.

He is facing Robben and Milton neither of whom are touchline huggers so defending is not a huge problem.

What he adds is numbers in midfield which will be required in abundance against the opposition's midfield.
 

Jim Beam

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I don't know about the left side, but for the right side, Hargreaves is perfect.

He is facing Robben and Milton neither of whom are touchline huggers so defending is not a huge problem.

What he adds is numbers in midfield which will be required in abundance against the opposition's midfield.
Went back and forth with his position (had to play one legacy player and no chance in hell that was going to be Silvestre), but in the end decided to put him there for pretty much those reasons. He was also pretty tireless runner in his peak, played there at times and had a pretty good ball/cross in him.
How good will he be recieved based on his name was another matter, but tactically I also think he is just fine where he is.
This formation requires one midfielder to be deeper and act as a midfield sweeper so it was always going to be Desailly in that position along with Häßler.

Sergi was a pretty good wing-back and can do a solid job, but let's say someone like Cabrini would be perfect.
 

Physiocrat

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@oneniltothearsenal

Have you a video that showcases Falcao's passing? I've seen him in a couple of games and a few compilations but his passing never stood out that much for me unlike say Platini's (obviously very different players)
 
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Invictus

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Good luck @Jim Beam! :)

Could you say a bit more on how you want Kubala to play on the right and interact with Cruyff & Carlos Alberto?
Sure! Kubala will operate predominantly as an auxiliary striker/inside-forward — his role here is mostly a combination of taking up advanced positions through the inside right channel when Cruyff drops to control the game as a deep-lying forward (here Kubala will have direct access to the penalty area and can sneak into favorable positions), or staying wider when the latter occupies center forward positions closer to the box where he can accelerate diagonally or between lines (a bit like Villa's dynamic with Messi to cite a relevant post-modern example). Of course, he's not dependent on Cruyff per se and can do much more on his own given his wide offensive skill set, but that's the most condensed version of the game plan wrt. his fit with Cruyff.

As for Kubala's combination with Alberto through the right flank, I guess Jairzinho would be a good example because he would similarly operate as an inside-forward who frequently took his position cues from the False-9-esque movement of Tostão, giving Alberto the room to bomb forward from right-back.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Good luck @Jim Beam! :)


Sure! Kubala will operate predominantly as an auxiliary striker/inside-forward — his role here is mostly a combination of taking up advanced positions through the inside right channel when Cruyff drops to control the game as a deep-lying forward (here Kubala will have direct access to the penalty area and can sneak into favorable positions), or staying wider when the latter occupies center forward positions closer to the box where he can accelerate diagonally or between lines (a bit like Villa's dynamic with Messi to cite a relevant post-modern example). Of course, he's not dependent on Cruyff per se and can do much more on his own given his wide offensive skill set, but that's the most condensed version of the game plan wrt. his fit with Cruyff.

As for Kubala's combination with Alberto through the right flank, I guess Jairzinho would be a good example because he would similarly operate as an inside-forward who frequently took his position cues from the False-9-esque movement of Tostão, giving Alberto the room to bomb forward from right-back.
I am sorry Invictus but Kubala as a wing forward in a 4-3-3 with a false 9 doesn't ring too many bells with me.

Sure it's functional but he is nothing like a Jairzinho/Kalle you'd have liked here.

He scored tons from a support striker role but he was always the playmaker first from what I have seen. You don't need that sort of a player with 3 midfielders doing that and Cruyff of all in the middle.

My guess is Kubala would be the first player you'd replace if you go through.
 

Invictus

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@oneniltothearsenal

Have you a video that showcases Falcao's passing? I've seen him in a couple of games and a few compilations but his passing never stood out that much for me
harms made one for him vs. Juventus not too long ago. Will try to embed that video. :)

EDIT. Found it on Youtube (hope it's not scrapped for infringement)!

 

Jim Beam

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Would be a missed oportunity not to put this compilation here. Peak Batistuta vs Barcelona and peak Il Fenomeno (+Figo, Stoichkov) on the other side at Camp Nou.

Fiorentina letting possession, defending deep and using Batistuta pretty much as the only attacking outlet. Him holding the ball, linking, scoring or in short bullying Barca defence on his own. Here he has Butragueno and Laudrup supporting him.

One of my favorite 90's matches.


 

Zlatan 7

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Invictus teams players stand out a mile, really pleasing on the eye, I can’t help to think you lack a pure goal scorer and something a little more solid in midfield though.
Jim bean lacks the same quality of player but seems to have more of a cohesive plan to the game and structured formation.

I’ll hold off voting for now, to be honest I always struggle to call these games. I’ll wait a bit to see how the convo goes.
 

Invictus

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nvictus teams players stand out a mile, really pleasing on the eye, I can’t help to think you lack a pure goal scorer and something a little more solid in midfield though.
Um...could you define pure goalscorer, please? Is that an allusion to a pure center forward? Because our offensive game-plan is predicated on Cruyff (who led Ajax to 3 European Cups and the Netherlands a World Cup final without a pure goalscorer).

From a statistical standpoint, Johan Cruyff scored almost 400 goals at club level, and has a goals per game ratio of roughly 0.70 in international football.
László Kubala scored almost 300 goals for Barcelona alone:


And Robben has scored more than 200 (as well as 37 for the Netherlands national team), though we won't be putting a big emphasis on his scoring for this match because he has a different remit where he won't cut in from the flank. Think there's plenty of goals in the team, especially when you include the midfield.

Wrt. the midfield's overall structure, I see it's been brought up a few times, and just want to mention that regista + dual box-to-box/central-midfielders is one of the simplest setups to envision. Especially when Falcão frequently played as the central regista at #5 for Liedholm at Roma...



“Falcao is the man who conducts the orchestra on the pitch. All I do sometimes is write the music for him, or prepare the score based on certain ideas.” Nils Liedholm
The absence of a pure marker who patrols the area is made up by the tactically acumen and workrate of Neeskens and Breitner, as well as their overall movement, IMO.
 

Zlatan 7

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Ok I stand corrected. I thought of Cruyff as more of a playmaker and used as a false 9 I’d expect scorers ether side of him (wing forwards).
If Robben is staying wide he will be putting crosses into the box? To Cruyff and Kubala?
 

Invictus

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Ok I stand corrected. I thought of Cruyff as more of a playmaker and used as a false 9 I’d expect scorers ether side of him (wing forwards).
If Robben is staying wide he will be putting crosses into the box? To Cruyff and Kubala?
Yes, if they are in a position to get on the end of his crosses, Robben will definitely put the ball directly into the box. Especially when Cruyff was a good header of the ball for a False-9 (who are usually more ground-based), and scored 10% of his total goals that way (via PuckVanHeel on BigSoccer):



But even though the flanks are asymmetric, and Robben is not “inverted”, he won't only stay wide like a one-dimensional lateral, that would be a waste of his overall skill set (as well as Cruyff's ability to put him in favorable positions in and around the box and create a sense of chaos via synchronized movement/dribbling).
 

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harms made one for him vs. Juventus not too long ago. Will try to embed that video. :)

EDIT. Found it on Youtube (hope it's not scrapped for infringement)!

Probably not the best game to showcase his passing skills — he played almost as a forward there if my memory serves me right.
 

Physiocrat

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Probably not the best game to showcase his passing skills — he played almost as a forward there if my memory serves me right.
Are there any better compilations I should watch for his passing?
 

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Ok I stand corrected. I thought of Cruyff as more of a playmaker and used as a false 9 I’d expect scorers ether side of him (wing forwards).
If Robben is staying wide he will be putting crosses into the box? To Cruyff and Kubala?
Imo he's the best false 9 of all time, maybe Messi comes close but he didn't play there for as long as Cruyff did.
 

harms

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Are there any better compilations I should watch for his passing?
I haven’t seen many Falcao compilations to be honest, aside from the big one by OGB. You should watch some of the 1982 Brazil games, it’s the obvious choice and you’ll at least enjoy some brilliant attacking football instead of whatever it was just now.
 

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Would be a missed oportunity not to put this compilation here. Peak Batistuta vs Barcelona and peak Il Fenomeno (+Figo, Stoichkov) on the other side at Camp Nou.

Fiorentina letting possession, defending deep and using Batistuta pretty much as the only attacking outlet. Him holding the ball, linking, scoring or in short bullying Barca defence on his own. Here he has Butragueno and Laudrup supporting him.

One of my favorite 90's matches.


His first touch and passing in that game would make Lukaku proud. But typical Batigol with that goal :drool:
 

Synco

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Would be a missed oportunity not to put this compilation here. Peak Batistuta vs Barcelona and peak Il Fenomeno (+Figo, Stoichkov) on the other side at Camp Nou.

Fiorentina letting possession, defending deep and using Batistuta pretty much as the only attacking outlet. Him holding the ball, linking, scoring or in short bullying Barca defence on his own. Here he has Butragueno and Laudrup supporting him.

One of my favorite 90's matches.


Lots of hit & miss, but a real menace in every way. That foul at 0:41 :lol:
 

Jim Beam

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His first touch and passing in that game would make Lukaku proud. But typical Batigol with that goal :drool:
He occupied like 5 Barca players running more than 12 miles. Do you see Rui Costa close anywhere?

This is much closer game then I thought so will give few thougts a bit later. :D
 

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@oneniltothearsenal

Have you a video that showcases Falcao's passing? I've seen him in a couple of games and a few compilations but his passing never stood out that much for me unlike say Platini's (obviously very different players)
I always wanted to put together a video of Falcão at Roma focusing on playmaking and all around CM play but just haven't had the time in the past year. Most of the compilations (like usual with nostalgia players with only a few)) focus on the goals only. The thing with Falcão is not that he was the most amazing passer of all time, but that his all around ability in every facet of the pitch was so high he could play the steering wheel role here with ease. I don't really get the Platini comparison at all

Here is a good way to put it from Fortitude:
"Falcao is the most skilled CM there has ever been - at least on film - and he could do things with a ball that none of the others could whilst possibly not being as good defensively as them. He could more than hold his own behind the ball and was positionally astute to a level that would be deemed world class in its own right. In modern football, he would be moved to AM because his skills are too undeniable to be 'wasted' with defensive duties. Falcao's skillset is like an amalgamation of numerous great midfielders rolled into one: Easily one of the best distance shooters in history; comfortably one of the best dribblers from midfield; two-footed to top percentile levels; combination passing to equal Xavi; one-touch to equal Busquets; long-passing not far off Pirlo and co.; an ability to convert in the box like a ghosting attacking midfielder; stamina; acceleration; pace; heading; volleying. Falcao has no weaknesses or deficiencies. Even if he isn't the best at a particular facet, he'll be top 5 in the majority of categories for a midfielder. If we were to score each attribute out of 100, across the board, it tallies to an extraordinary points total that I don't believe anyone else can match.

Falcao was the highest paid player in the world for a period of the 80's and was also vying with Platini to be the best player in the whole of Serie A. His legend has actually diminished greatly with time so whilst Platini is still considered a true great, you have to dig a lot deeper to find similar comments regarding Falcao despite him being a par player during their playing careers."

Here is another article:
https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/10/16/platini-versus-falcao-a-great-calcio-rivalry/
 
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This seems like a good story.
If you think Cal? is a good example of extreme bias, you haven't seen this guy when it comes to anything related to Cruyff or Holland in general. Cruyff's mother would be proud of him.

He also made a thread where he had an individual post for every single goal Cruyff ever scored.
 

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If you think Cal? is a good example of extreme bias, you haven't seen this guy when it comes to anything related to Cruyff or Holland in general. Cruyff's mother would be proud of him.

He also made a thread where he had an individual post for every single goal Cruyff ever scored.

The feck :lol::lol::lol:
 

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Absolutely :lol: but, to keep it up for the whole 90 minutes is worth admiring imo :D
It is. I don't have the context of the whole game, but it's impressive how he works that defense and creates danger against all odds.
 

Jim Beam

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It is. I don't have the context of the whole game, but it's impressive how he works that defense and creates danger against all odds.
Shame (or not) he never left Fiorentina until his 30's.

Born in the wrong decade also. Between Diego and Messi.