LV Monopoly Draft - Finals: Skizzanomoss vs Jayvin

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

VS

............... Team Skizzahnomoss ............................................................ Team Jayvin ............................................


TEAM SKIZZAHNOMOSS

Tactics
Deep defensive line
Direct attacks

Defense
Beckenbauer will marshall this five man defense from a central libero role, operating between the physical stoppers Schwarzenbeck and Bergomi to let them stay close to Lahm and Netto on the outside. The primary defensive job will be playing low and tight to remove as much space as possible for the opponents to attack in. Schwarzenbeck will stay as close to Netto as he can to make sure Jairzinho has them both to beat before it turns dangerous and on the other side Lahm and Bergomi form a great defensive unit.

When Henry cuts inside he will face Neeskens and Bergomi and Romario couldn't have a more difficult match up than a tight three man central defense. Beckenbauer offers absolute supreme intelligence in terms of reading the game and Schwarzenbeck and Bergomi has the ability to deal with the speed and tricks from Henry and Jairzinho if they cut inside.

In the central midfield we have two complete players who will do their defensive job perfectly with their work rate and intelligence. Maradona and Pele will have a free role in the defense, compensated by a defensive formation and Suarez wo, looking to find space to instantly start a counter-attack and we have great players to turn a won ball to a swift counter attack. Suarez will like always work his socks off to try and press the opponents to make mistakes, or force them to attack towards our right side in Bergomi and Lahm.

Offense
In the offense Beckenbauer will have a free role, capable of both running the show from a deeper position or making offensive runs while one of Edwards/Neeskens stays compact. As soon as the ball is won Netto and Lahm will be making runs forward outside of Maradona and Pele while Suarez will make runs behind the defense or out wide to make sure Maradona and Pele has the space to decide this.

TEAM JAYVIN


OVERVIEW:

- Balanced team with numerous avenues of attack.
- Strong defensive midfield with a mixture of energy, passing ability and defensive nous.
- Rock-solid, intelligent and athletic defence in front of a man-mountain of a goalkeeper.
- Prolific goalscorers in every position in attack

Romario spearheads a fluid attack with his movement, dribbling and acceleration dragging defenders around the pitch and his deadly finishing always a danger.

Henry operates as a LWF/SS, cutting inside to support Romario and attempting to drag the opposition defenders out of position. Facchetti behind him will provide most of the width on the left side with his overlapping runs, while on the right, it is Jairzinho providing the width when needed. Michel Platini rounds off the attack, playmaking from an attacking midfield position and bursting forward into the space provided by the movement of Henry and Romario.

The team is rounded off by a well balanced defence with plenty of physicality, pace and composure on the ball, thanks to a complimentary partnership of Franco Baresi and Jaap Stam. Facchetti once again has license to get forward when he can, being well supported by the indefatigable Edgar Davids and the legendary Franco Baresi on that side, while Thuram remains in a more defensive RB role to counter the threat of Giggs and Lahm.

My team will play a counter-attacking style in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 formation.

Employing a deep defensive line, I will instruct Davids and Keane to pressure the opposition midfield duo relentlessly, trying to win the ball and start counter-attacks while also starving Maradona and Pele of easy possession via quick balls from the midfield. In addition to stifling the passing lanes through to the front 2, by employing a deep defensive line with exceptional quality out wide I hope to limit Maradona and Pele's passing options to the flanks and catch them in between a wall of Baresi/Stam and Davids/Keane rushing back to support from the other side.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Skizzo @Annahnomoss @Jayvin

All the best!

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Two great teams. At first glance Skizzannah looks extremely narrow with no one really occupying the outside lanes naturally on either side.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Quite an interesting match here. Jayvin's team is pretty straight forward.

Skizzonomoss's team is more difficult to conceptualize. From what I read, Netto and Edwards are very similar type players. I haven't watch Netto, but will he be able to provide the overlapping width needed. Lahm as an attacking wingback also doesn't sit well. Somehow the dynamics look a bit off here.

 

[Theon]

Gone for Jayvin.

I can see the logic of going 3-5-2 to fit in Pele/Maradona, but I'm not a massive fan of those wing backs and I think that side could struggle for width at times.

The biggest discrepancy on the pitch is clearly Schmeichel vs Courtois and it could decide the game.

Jayvin's team is rock solid, particularly with Davids back in the side whose mobility compliments the rest of the team perfectly - I thought it looked a touch slow in the middle with Bozsik.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Two great teams. At first glance Skizzannah looks extremely narrow with no one really occupying the outside lanes naturally on either side.

Maradona wasn't a player who needed natural width to thrive. Napoli preferred using Bruscolotti/Renica/Francini/Ferrara who were more defensively solid than they were great attack wise. For us Lahm will provide natural width, complemented by Neeskens ability to comfortably work the right hand channel. On the other side it is more narrow with Netto and Duncan Edwards, which is why Suarez plays who can work both wings in terms of making runs to pull the defense apart.

We will rely a lot on direct attacks through fast and smooth build up play to find Pele and Maradona as soon as possible. We want to attack box to box to get the best of the great off the ball runners we have.

Pele and Maradona also have the dribbling and drive to find space out wide and challenge the defenders from there.

 

[antohan]

That really isn't an all-time final worthy side guys. Spine? Sure, but it's clear you neglected the flanks and instead of trying to sell Giggs-Julinho (slightly underwhelming amid the glitz) you've opted for a far more underwhelming pair in Netto-Lahm.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

The biggest discrepancy on the pitch is clearly Schmeichel vs Courtois and it could decide the game.

Good point.

 

[Gio]

That's the best back 5 I think I've seen in a draft.

 

[Joga Bonito]

looks extremely narrow with no one really occupying the outside lanes naturally on either side

Lahm as an attacking wingback also doesn't sit well.

I can understand Netto being questioned in that role but can't quite figure out what's wrong or underwhelming about Lahm in that RWB role? He is an excellent all round FB, no doubt, but he was a brilliant overlapper and an astute crosser of the ball. Think he'd be brilliant in that role myself.

That being said, there isn't exactly an abundance of width on Skizzo/Annah's side, esp on the left. More info is needed on Netto in particular, who was a versatile player by all accounts and someone who started out as a LB iirc. Defensively, I can see Jairzinho causing issues for Netto, although he has the well versed Lcb Schwarzenbeck for cover. Edwards as the Lcm/wing half is great cover too for that matter, against Keane's forays forward too.

Offensively, as Annah pointed out, their setup is complementary with Maradona having a great set up to function in. Maradona never particularly required much width, but rather foraging forwards and midfielders who could stretch play and provide options to link up with. Suarez and in particular the midfield duo (Neeskens as the attacking B2B esp) are perfect for that. I'm generally not a fan if Pele and Maradona in the same side but I can see them working very well here in their free roles, with the selfless individuals alongside them. A more conventional 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 etc with an extra attacker or so, and it would be a tad bit too cramped, with either of them being shoehorned into an unfavorable role and with less room/space to work with etc.

Likewise Beckenbauer who has an excellent foundation laid for him to shine. Can definitely see the rationale behind the 3-4-3 here. Just a query as to whether it's the earlier version of Pele here or the 1970 version. @Annahnomoss @Skizzo

Jayvin's side is fantastic too with a truly imposing core. Can see Thuram tucking in to help against Pele, which should free up Baresi more and give him more room to work with. That midfield is bang on the money and Platini will relish playing alongside those wing forwards too imo. Maradona and Pele do face stiff resistance with Jayvin boasting a cracking defense.

Ultimately though, for all the attacking talents on show here, it will ultimately hinge on which one of Baresi or Beckenbauer can commandeer their defense/side to victory.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I can understand Netto being questioned in that role but can't quite figure out what's wrong or underwhelming about Lahm in that RWB role? He is an excellent all round FB, no doubt, but he was a brilliant overlapper and an astute crosser of the ball. Think he'd be brilliant in that role myself.

That being said, there isn't exactly an abundance of width on Skizzo/Annah's side, esp on the left. More info is needed on Netto in particular, who was a versatile player by all accounts and someone who started out as a LB iirc. Defensively, I can see Jairzinho causing issues for Netto, although he has the well versed Lcb Schwarzenbeck for cover. Edwards as the Lcm/wing half is great cover too for that matter, against Keane's forays forward too.

I rate Lahm's attacking output about the same as Evra. Perfect for a back 4, but lacks the extra oomph for a back 5. I'd buy Lahm tucking in to cover Henry and freeing up Neeskens whom I rate a lot.

As to Netto, similar to Neeskens he started off as fullback but his peak was more as a CM. I rate him same as playing Neeskens as RB. Probably sufficient, but not optimal. I also think him and Edwards are very similar to complement each other without compromising on the peak roles.

 

[harms]

I seem to be in a minority but this Skizzo/Annah's side is an absolute beauty. I thought they would drop Netto and opt for a more conventional set-up, but this one gets the best out of Beckenbauer and Maradona, but the best selling point for me is those Netto-Edwards and Lahm-Neeskens duos.

I'm usually drooling over my own sides but I can say without hesitation that this is one of my favorite sides on here. The fact that I absolutely didn't expect them to field that way just makes it even better. Plus the unorthodox but surprisingly easy to visualize use of Netto

Spoiler

Jayvin's team (defence and midfield) is a bit boring although it's a scary kind of boring - the kind that'll routinely destroy everything on it's path. Not a fan of a front 3 (probably should name it four with Platini here, but, well), it doesn't really klick for me.


It's definitely a close one.

I think that the high line would've worked better for Jayvin though. In Baresi he has the finest high-line organizer in history, Stam and Facchetti are insanely quick and Thuram isn't a mug either - plus Davids and Keane would've pushed a little further, which is always a plus. I guess this makes my decision final, although mostly I just went with my heart on this one - and even the overcrowding of stars in S/A side doesn't concern me.

 

[Theon]

I don't think Lahm is a brilliant wingback at all personally - he's a good balanced fullback and certainly capable of playing the role, but in an all time draft final I don't think its a great fit.

I agree with Edgar that he lacks the offensive oomph of someone like Cafu which imo is better suited to a back five, particularly when there isn't much natural width coming from the left flank either.

 

[harms]

Ideally you'd want someone with a more noticeable physical presence there but in terms of the attacking skill I don't think that Lahm is lacking any. His crossing is sublime.
When we compare him to Evra, he always provided more end product, Evra always had problems with the last pass, despite being faster and a better dribbler

 

[Theon]

No one is doubting Lahm's crossing - but that's only one aspect of attacking and it's also something that your normal balanced fullback (like Lahm) would be expected to do in a back four.

He's not a natural wingback, I don't think that's too controversial and that's all anyone has said.

 

[antohan]

That's the best back 5 I think I've seen in a draft.

Aye, I think it trumps my Facchetti-Figueroa-Scirea-VR Andrade-L. Buffon from the chain draft and possibly my target for the final which was the same but with Zoff between the sticks.

 

[antohan]

I seem to be in a minority but this Skizzo/Annah's side is an absolute beauty. I thought they would drop Netto and opt for a more conventional set-up, but this one gets the best out of Beckenbauer and Maradona, but the best selling point for me is those Netto-Edwards and Lahm-Neeskens duos.

That's a very good point actually. You are selling that better than the management did. You could maybe deem them too similar/overlapping, but also as perfect interchangeable complements cover-wise. Interesting.

 

[Jayvin]

I think that the high line would've worked better for Jayvin though. In Baresi he has the finest high-line organizer in history, Stam and Facchetti are insanely quick and Thuram isn't a mug either - plus Davids and Keane would've pushed a little further, which is always a plus. I guess this makes my decision final, although mostly I just went with my heart on this one - and even the overcrowding of stars in S/A side doesn't concern me.

I was expecting a different team, with Giggs and Julinho on the flanks. I didn't really think it was wise to play a counter-attacking system with a high line against Maradona/Pele/Giggs/Julinho, one mistake and the wingers are in behind. I figured it was better to utilise my energetic midfield to harrass Neeskens and Netto (Edwards) and stop the supply to the forward players, leaving my defence deep to try and mop up.

Skizz/Annah have gone and pulled a fast one with their lineup though, now I have to re-evaluate everything.

By the way thanks for delaying the start of the game @Edgar Allan Pillow, much appreciated.

 

[mazhar13]

@harms from Gio's Sheep Draft match between me and @Edgar Allan Pillow (looking back, I've really tamed in my matchday approach compared to back then):

I doubt that you know more about Netto than me tbf and I obviously watched that final (couple of times, actually). He still wasn't an LB at his pick - you won't put Duncan Edwards at LB for example. I would even say that his secondary position was left forward and left back was only his 3rd preferred choice

Harms now:

Plus the unorthodox but surprisingly easy to visualize use of Netto

but the best selling point for me is those Netto-Edwards and Lahm-Neeskens duos

What changed re:Netto, Harms?

 

[harms]

@harms from Gio's Sheep Draft match between me and @Edgar Allan Pillow (looking back, I've really tamed in my matchday approach compared to back then):


Harms now:



What changed re:Netto, Harms?

Not much, just the fact that he is playing in a different position in a completely different set-up with a much more complimentary (and different ) personnel around him (especially Edwards, haven't even thought about that possibility before I saw the team sheet)

 

[Jayvin]

@harms from Gio's Sheep Draft match between me and @Edgar Allan Pillow (looking back, I've really tamed in my matchday approach compared to back then)

I think most people have actually. There's a lot less nasty criticism of opponents teams/players than there used to be and more tactical discussion about how the match would play out. Also people don't seem to have meltdowns anymore, which I kind of miss

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I think most people have actually. There's a lot less nasty criticism of opponents teams/players than there used to be and more tactical discussion about how the match would play out. Also people don't seem to have meltdowns anymore, which I kind of miss

Don't worry, I'm close to having one given that people are commenting on the gap between schmeichel and courtois but no one bothered mentioning the gap between maier and Julio Cesar in my game.

 

[harms]

Don't worry, I'm close to having one given that people are commenting on the gap between schmeichel and courtois but no one bothered mentioning the gap between maier and Julio Cesar in my game.

You did it yourself too many times for anyone to have an urge to repeat it. And while Maier was amazing and is in a very top tier alongside Yashin, Zoff and a few others, Cesar isn't that bad himself, he was the best keeper in the world at some point.
The gap between them is clear but everyone see it even without posting the same things over and over in the thread. I know that it feels very frustrating though, especially if you're losing

 

[mazhar13]

Not much, just the fact that he is playing in a different position in a completely different set-up with a much more complimentary (and different ) personnel around him

Eh, how's this left wing back role different from his "3rd position" if his 2nd position was as a "left wing forward"?

Regarding the personnel, I don't really like Schwarzenbeck in that left central defence role. I always saw him as being more comfortable in a back 4 where he can play more centrally (at Bayern and West Germany, he played next to the more defensive right backs Johnny Hansen and Horst-Dieter Höttges). Still, though, I do appreciate Duncan at the left central midfield role as he can provide some support to Schwarzenbeck and help him play more centrally where he'll be more at home. He's still together with Beckenbauer, and Bergomi's at home on the right side, so I can see why you'd be okay with Netto at that left wing back role. Plus, Maradona can provide the width on the left side perfectly, leaving ample space for Pelé to drop into whether it's his '58 role or '70 role.

In comparison, Jayvin has fielded Facchetti perfectly there with Henry able to dovetail perfectly off of Facchetti. Neeskens-Edwards is an amazing midfield combo, but Davids can be a proper wild card here in terms of supporting Platini centrally. Still, though, I don't know who'll really be able to pick up Maradona here. There's no dedicated defensive midfielder in Jayvin's team, so Maradona can have a field day here.

Both good teams, but Skizzahnomoss is lacking a proper left wing back to really make their team unbeatable.

 

[mazhar13]

I think most people have actually. There's a lot less nasty criticism of opponents teams/players than there used to be and more tactical discussion about how the match would play out. Also people don't seem to have meltdowns anymore, which I kind of miss

Nah, it's not the nastiness factor for me, it's more that I haven't posted as frequently as I did in that match or when I first came up. Maybe having a full-time job has made it tougher for me to get as involved.

 

[Jayvin]

There's no dedicated defensive midfielder in Jayvin's team, so Maradona can have a field day here.

My plan was to cut the passing lanes from midfield and attempt to isolate Maradona and Pele, then once they get the ball the strong cover on the flanks limits their passing options out wide, leaving Baresi and Stam to take them on with Keane and Davids coming back to support and help to press them. Still a risky strategy of course but I felt it was the safest option, more so against a team with Giggs and Julinho out wide but I feel it will still be an effective strategy against the lineup Skizzo/Annah ended up playing.

Beckenbauer's runs forward could throw a spanner in the works, but that then creates a risk of Skizzo/Annah's team being caught on the counter and leaving a gap for Platini/Henry/Romario to exploit.

 

[Balu]

Regarding the personnel, I don't really like Schwarzenbeck in that left central defence role. I always saw him as being more comfortable in a back 4 where he can play more centrally (at Bayern and West Germany, he played next to the more defensive right backs Johnny Hansen and Horst-Dieter Höttges).

He usually played as the left centerback between Breitner and Beckenbauer up until '74 when Breitner went to Madrid and was constantly busy to cover for both. It was always a kinda zona mista set-up with Breitner playing an attacking role, then Schwarzenbeck a disciplined covering one, then Beckenbauer as a libero and followed by a disciplined right centerback-ish fullback who would tuck in and help out central.

Don't see why Schwarzenbeck wouldn't be a great fit here for that role.

 

[mazhar13]

He usually played as the left centerback between Breitner and Beckenbauer up until '74 when Breitner went to Madrid and was constantly busy to cover for both. It was always a kinda zona mista set-up with Breitner playing an attacking role, then Schwarzenbeck a disciplined covering one, then Beckenbauer as a libero and followed by a disciplined right centerback-ish fullback who would tuck in and help out central.

Don't see why Schwarzenbeck wouldn't be a great fit here for that role.

Yeah, you're right. I must have mixed up their positions for some reason. I don't have an issue with Schwarzenbeck's covering and positioning, which I found to be excellent. My only concern is his ability to defend out wider. Whenever I've watched footages of Schwarzenbeck, he's always been more central in his defending, but that's where Big Dunc is a good foil for Schwarzenbeck.

 

[Moby]

My plan was to cut the passing lanes from midfield and attempt to isolate Maradona and Pele

Which is a much better strategy than having dedicated markers.

 

[Gio]

Which is a much better strategy than having dedicated markers.

This. And nobody better - ever probably - than Davids and Keane to carry out some high octane space covering and game reading to do just that.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

which is why Suarez plays who can work both wings in terms of making runs to pull the defense apart.

Why didn't you put Suarez on the left in the formation then?

That was another thing that just struck me as off. Suarez would be much better on Pele's left hand side than Pele's right hand side.

 

[Balu]

The criticism of Lahm as a right wingback is truely odd considering how often we've seen someone like Carlos Alberto picked as a right wingback or at times even players like Gentile, Bergomi. How many rightbacks are there actually with a better endproduct in the final third than Lahm? Yeah, obviously he's not Cafu, but whenever Lahm was asked to play an attacking overlapping fullback, he collected assists in various ways. He's a great passer in the final third additional to his crosses and has great off the ball movement, often making inside overlaps and runs behind the defense when someone else provides width. The set-up with Neeskens is nothing but beautiful. For example, Lahm had 19 assists in the 3 competitions when Bayern won the treble in 2012/13 and that's without taking set-pieces, no freekicks and no corners added to it. They all came from open play.

If Lahm had played in the 80's and 90's, he would have played every week as a right wingback and he would have been equally brilliant. He just happened to play in a time when the regularly chosen system was a back five.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

The criticism of Lahm as a right wingback is truely odd considering how often we've seen someone like Carlos Alberto picked as a right wingback or at times even players like Gentile,

Gentile as a wingback expected to contribute wingback style offense?

 

[Balu]

Gentile as a wingback expected to contribute wingback style offense?

Well, kinda. We've seen all types of defensive fullbacks as a 'wingback' in a narrow 532 system in drafts, Vogts for example as well. On the other hand, someone like Alves is still seen as a liability and not a great player when he's picked as a wingback. The likes of Gerets or Amoros are often considered wingbacks, Lizarazu is often played as a wingback. None of them is a better fit for that position than Lahm or offers more going forward. The same goes for example for Zanetti, who usually isn't questioned when played as a wingback. Lahm easily matches their attacking output, just happened to play in an era where you've rarely seen 352/532 tactics.

It's really weird, I'm totally lost about what people actually want to see from a wingback when Lahm with Neeskens as a wide midfielder in a team with free roaming players like Maradona and Suarez isn't enough width. Makes absolutely zero sense to me. I usually dislike 532 tactics because it's narrow and lacks natural width, but this one does look beautiful to me. At least on the right side, I haven't seen enough of Netto to know if he's capable of pulling it off on the left though.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Well, kinda. We've seen all types of defensive fullbacks as a 'wingback' in a narrow 532 system in drafts, Vogts for example as well. On the other hand, someone like Alves is still seen as a liability and not a great player when he's picked as a wingback. The likes of Gerets or Amoros are often considered wingbacks, Lizarazu is often played as a wingback. None of them is a better fit for that position than Lahm or offers more going forward. The same goes for example for Zanetti, who usually isn't questioned when played as a wingback. Lahm easily matches their attacking output, just happened to play in an era where you've rarely seen 352/532 tactics.

Thanks for this historical info. I can see Gentile as a "wingback" successfully but only in very specific circumstances regarding the opposition. For instance if they had a pure offensive winger, a pure defensive fullback and Gentile's team was a 3-5-2 with someone like Suarez or Henry on the left. other than that specific situation I can't see Gentile as wingback at all. I definitely wouldn't see Alves as a liability at wing back.

It's really weird, I'm totally lost about what people actually want to see from a wingback when Lahm with Neeskens as a wide midfielder in a team with free roaming players like Maradona and Suarez isn't enough width. Makes absolutely zero sense to me. I usually dislike 532 tactics because it's narrow and lacks natural width, but this one does look beautiful to me. At least on the right side, I haven't seen enough of Netto to know if he's capable of pulling it off on the left though.

For this match though I just can't imagine skizzana's side playing with much width. For Lahm maybe its just the last 3 years where he is seen to move inside more the further upfield he gets. A younger Lahm is probably much more suited here than Pep's Lahm but Pep's Lahm is much more fresh in my mind.

Suarez is on the wrong side to provide width. Period.

Maybe I am being a stickler to formations because I put so much time and attention into my formations and that is really the thing I love most about the drafts. But when I see Suarez on the right of Pele? Just, No. I can't give him credit for providing width on the left when his manager(s) are not making a tactic to take advantage of that fact and carelessly placing him on the right of Pele.

 

[Balu]

Maybe I am being a stickler to formations because I put so much time and attention into my formations and that is really the thing I love most about the drafts. But when I see Suarez on the right of Pele? Just, No. I can't give him credit for providing width on the left when his manager(s) are not making a tactic to take advantage of that fact and carelessly placing him on the right of Pele.

Is it really such a big deal? I'm fairly certain I remember Suarez drifting wide to the right quite a bit at Barca when Messi cuts inside. He's also right-footed isn't he? He played an inside left role at times of course, but when played as a striker I don't see it as a big problem if he's expected to drift to the right.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Is it really such a big deal?

for me yes it is. If its not for you then fair play for your personal criteria. But with how I look at things and the comments I have read in match threads then no I am absolutely not going to assume Suarez provides "width on the left" when he is presented on the right in this formation with no arrows even!

I value care and attention placed into formations and write ups. That is a voting criteria for me as I spend a lot of time and research into that very aspect. If its not for you, cool beans. But it is for me.

 

[Balu]

for me yes it is. If its not for you then fair play for your personal criteria. But with how I look at things and the comments I have read in match threads then no I am absolutely not going to assume Suarez provides "width on the left" when he is presented on the right in this formation. I value care and attention placed into formations and write ups. That is a voting criteria for me as I spend a lot of time and research into that very aspect. If its not for you, cool beans. But it is for me.

Who said Suarez would provide width on the left here?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Who said Suarez would provide width on the left here?

@Skizzo @Annahnomoss

@Balu Are you trying to say Suarez provides All-Time level width on the right?

 

[Physiocrat]

@Jayvin

Any reason why Baresi is on the left? With such a back four it would seem more natural to me to have him at RCB so he'd be the centre of a back three when attacking.