Maajid Nawaz

Raoul

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Seems to have been caught up in a stag night controversy this week, which can't help his political career.

Been watching a fair bit of his work on YouTube and am curious what everyone in the UK thinks about him ?

Legitimate voice opposing the Islamist narrative or a well spoken opportunist in the game for his own ambition ?
 

LeChuck

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He is a fool.

The UK talk shows etc, for some reason, hold him up as some beacon of knowledge on Islam.

He has 0 credibility. Following on from the strip club incident, he was also involved with trying to set up a fake EDL rally which a constituent of Dudley would resolve to try and buy more votes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tage-fake-EDL-demo-cynical-bid-win-votes.html

(I haven't actually read the above article, so I don't know if Maajid Nawaz was actually named in that article, but that's the story).
 

Raoul

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He is a fool.

The UK talk shows etc, for some reason, hold him up as some beacon of knowledge on Islam.

He has 0 credibility. Following on from the strip club incident, he was also involved with trying to set up a fake EDL rally which a constituent of Dudley would resolve to try and buy more votes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tage-fake-EDL-demo-cynical-bid-win-votes.html

(I haven't actually read the above article, so I don't know if Maajid Nawaz was actually named in that article, but that's the story).
Don't those same talk shows also promote the likes of Mehdi Hasan and Mo Ansar ?
 

rednev

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He is a fool.

The UK talk shows etc, for some reason, hold him up as some beacon of knowledge on Islam.

He has 0 credibility. Following on from the strip club incident, he was also involved with trying to set up a fake EDL rally which a constituent of Dudley would resolve to try and buy more votes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tage-fake-EDL-demo-cynical-bid-win-votes.html

(I haven't actually read the above article, so I don't know if Maajid Nawaz was actually named in that article, but that's the story).
What does the link you posted have to do with Maajid Nawaz?
 

Ubik

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Maajid Nawaz introduced/brokered the meeting between the constituent and the EDL.
That claim's denied by both Nawaz and Robinson, aside from having met the Tory at a Quilliam event. "Brokered" makes it sound like it was his idea.
 

LeChuck

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That claim's denied by both Nawaz and Robinson, aside from having met the Tory at a Quilliam event. "Brokered" makes it sound like it was his idea.
There's tweets of him being at the restaurant with Afzal Amin the day the meeting happened, which he deleted after. I'm trying to find the article that screenshotted everything.
 

rednev

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There's tweets of him being at the restaurant with Afzal Amin the day the meeting happened, which he deleted after. I'm trying to find the article that screenshotted everything.
I don't understand what exactly you are accusing him of.
 

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What about his work with Quilliam - is it perceived as raising important issues within British Muslim society or as antagonistic towards mainstream Muslims ?
 

rednev

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I think Uzz has confused Nawaz with the now-disgraced Tory candidate Afzal Amin and is now trying to backtrack by linking him to the incident in some way. Unless I'm mistaken, Uzz?
 

LeChuck

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I don't understand what exactly you are accusing him of.
I think Uzz has confused Nawaz with the now-disgraced Tory candidate Afzal Amin and is now trying to backtrack by linking him to the incident in some way. Unless I'm mistaken, Uzz?
Afzal Amin, the constituent tried to organise a fake rally involving the EDL in a bid to win more votes in Dudley.

The person that introduced Amin to the EDL was Maajid Nawaz.

Amin and Nawaz are good friends, having been friends from Uni days. Nawaz has regularly tweeted his support and love for Amin etc.

Nawaz and the EDL/Tommy Robinson are also chummy.

So, I'm accusing Nawaz of being a dodgy git, but then again, who isn't dodgy in politics?
 

rednev

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What about his work with Quilliam - is it perceived as raising important issues within British Muslim society or as antagonistic towards mainstream Muslims ?
Some Muslims don't like him because he is very moderate, to say the least, and doesn't subscribe to the idea that Islam or religion in general deserves some privileged place in society. In fact, I suspect he is atheist/deist. He has done some good work with the the Quilliam Foundation and he seems like a fun guy to be around as well. He even made an appearance on Bill Maher, I recall.
 

Raoul

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Some Muslims don't like him because he is very moderate, to say the least, and doesn't subscribe to the idea that Islam or religion in general deserves some privileged place in society. In fact, I suspect he is atheist/deist. He has done some good work with the the Quilliam Foundation and he seems like a fun guy to be around as well. He even made an appearance on Bill Maher, I recall.
Yep, he makes quite a few appearances on US these days - see him a lot on CNN and occasionally on Fox.
 

Ubik

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The main problem I have with Maajid Nawaz is that he's a Lib Dem.
 

rednev

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Afzal Amin, the constituent tried to organise a fake rally involving the EDL in a bid to win more votes in Dudley.

The person that introduced Amin to the EDL was Maajid Nawaz.

Amin and Nawaz are good friends, having been friends from Uni days. Nawaz has regularly tweeted his support and love for Amin etc.

Nawaz and the EDL/Tommy Robinson are also chummy.

So, I'm accusing Nawaz of being a dodgy git, but then again, who isn't dodgy in politics?
Nawaz may have introduced Amin to the EDL, but that is because Nawaz works with the EDL through his anti-extremism think-tank Quilliam and is involved in trying to encourage dialogue. I don't think there is any evidence that Nawaz was involved in the dodgy scheme that Amin was trying to implement.
 

FlawlessThaw

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Legitimate voice opposing the Islamist narrative or a well spoken opportunist in the game for his own ambition ?
Personally keep going back and forth on him. Thought he came across quite well on Bill Maher's show and on the EDL doc, particularly as he has been through the extremist background and highlights how his parents reacted to him when he was an extremist. But then he dismisses things like the Palestinian issue as of non-importance when it clearly remains one of the main recruiting tools for extremists and a huge point still in the Islamic community. My own view now is that whilst he has some credibile views, he's probably now outside the bubble of your average day to day muslim, so I'm not sure how much of a beacon of knowledge of Muslims he has.

Still much rather he is on TV than Anjem Choudary.

Should point out my knowledge of the bloke is probably a lot less than most on here.
 

LeChuck

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Nawaz may have introduced Amin to the EDL, but that is because Nawaz works with the EDL through his anti-extremism think-tank Quilliam and is involved in trying to encourage dialogue. I don't think there is any evidence that Nawaz was involved in the dodgy scheme that Amin was trying to implement.
What point are you making here? So, should Maajid Nawaz go up and down the country introducing his uni friends to the EDL?
 

Raoul

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Personally keep going back and forth on him. Thought he came across quite well on Bill Maher's show and on the EDL doc, particularly as he has been through the extremist background and highlights how his parents reacted to him when he was an extremist. But then he dismisses things like the Palestinian issue as of non-importance when it clearly remains one of the main recruiting tools for extremists and a huge point still in the Islamic community. My own view now is that whilst he has some credibile views, he's probably now outside the bubble of your average day to day muslim, so I'm not sure how much of a beacon of knowledge of Muslims he has.

Still much rather he is on TV than Anjem Choudary.

Should point out my knowledge of the bloke is probably a lot less than most on here.
I could be mistaken about some of his positions but wouldn't the Palestinian issue be a part of his view that the political Islamist narrative is driven by a sense of victimhood ?
 

rednev

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What point are you making here? So, should Maajid Nawaz go up and down the country introducing his uni friends to the EDL?
The point I am making is that it is unfair for you to link the story you posted to Maajid Nawaz. There doesn't appear to be any evidence whatsoever for his involvement in the plot, other than the fact he used to go to uni with Amin and first introduced him to the EDL's former leader through his anti-extremism work.
 

LeChuck

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The point I am making is that it is unfair for you to link the story you posted to Maajid Nawaz. There doesn't appear to be any evidence whatsoever for his involvement in the plot, other than the fact he used to go to uni with Amin and first introduced him to the EDL's former leader through his anti-extremism work.
Are you really that naive? Amin and he are good friends where they regularly meet up, have dinner etc. He's always tweeting about it (he's stopped now though). He definitely knew about Amin's plot.

There was a specific tweet he deleted when the story broke, but I remember reading through an article on FB when it all came out. I'm still trying to find it.
 

rednev

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Are you really that naive? Amin and he are good friends where they regularly meet up, have dinner etc. He's always tweeting about it (he's stopped now though). He definitely knew about Amin's plot.

There was a specific tweet he deleted when the story broke, but I remember reading through an article on FB when it all came out. I'm still trying to find it.
Well when you do I would be interested in reading it. It's just that I have yet to see any real evidence so at the moment it's looking like a smear.
 

FlawlessThaw

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I could be mistaken about some of his positions but wouldn't the Palestinian issue be a part of his view that the political Islamist narrative is driven by a sense of victimhood ?
Could be, the victimhood argument works well in driving new extremists. My understanding though is he wants to free Palestine from Hamas but he doesn't seem to look at the root causes for why the average Gazans turn to Hamas, because he doesn't go into that point he doesn't seem to resonate with the day to day muslim. That and the fact that some see him as profiteering from being a "moderate muslim" (that's a bit unfair for me as he clearly seems passionate about his views)

I'd rather vote for someone whose been a strip club than someone who hasn't.
For me it's a scandal in the same way Ed Miliband having a girlfriend before he met is wife is somehow a scandal. More ridiculousness from the Mail.
 

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Could be, the victimhood argument works well in driving new extremists. My understanding though is he wants to free Palestine from Hamas but he doesn't seem to look at the root causes for why the average Gazans turn to Hamas, because he doesn't go into that point he doesn't seem to resonate with the day to day muslim. That and the fact that some see him as profiteering from being a "moderate muslim" (that's a bit unfair for me as he clearly seems passionate about his views).
Interesting. Do have any links or YouTube clips where he talks about this ?
 

Sultan

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Anjum Choudhry and Maajid Nawaz are both polar opposites. They both pander to different audiences.

I can't stand both characters.
 

Raoul

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Anjum Choudhry and Maajid Nawaz are both polar opposites. They both pander to different audiences.

I can't stand both characters.
Very interesting Sults. Choudhary seems to support a near ISIS-like Shari'a state where as Nawaz seem to challenge ordinary Muslims to condemn things like apostate beheadings etc. Do you really feel there's a moral equivalence between both their positions ?
 

HabeasC

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Don't those same talk shows also promote the likes of Mehdi Hasan and Mo Ansar ?
I wouldn't put Mehdi Hasan in with the others. He is much more moderate Muslim and comes across as rational and intelligent. I don't agree with him on everything, or even most things (especially abortion), but his articles in the Guardian and New Statesman are always well argued.
 

Raoul

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I wouldn't put Mehdi Hasan in with the others. He is much more moderate Muslim and comes across as rational and intelligent. I don't agree with him on everything, or even most things (especially abortion), but his articles in the Guardian and New Statesman are always well argued.
He does seem to have toned things down a bit since his infamous "non-Muslims live like animals" video.

 

HabeasC

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He does seem to have toned things down a bit since his infamous "non-Muslims live like animals" video.

Admittedly he does come across as a bit of a nutter there. Though it looks like he is addressing a mosque here, so is trying to persuade a group of muslims that violence is not the answer to any of their perceived grievances and that using their religion as an excuse for violence is wrong. It is religious elitism, but then all religions do this. They all believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

I thought that in his debate at the Oxford Union and at another with David Aaronovitch at the LSE, he makes a lot of good points which seem to cut through any stereotypes of islam. He always advocates for the mainstream and moderate people in his religion and helps to debunk a lot of the 'facts' and opinions that newspapers such as the Mail seem to regularly espouse against his religion.

Personally think Britain could do with a lot more reasonable, well educated and articulate advocates for Islam (to an extent like him) in the media. It would definitely help the massive fractures in society that exist because only the most extreme on both sides are represented in the media.

However, they love to roll out the nutters as it attracts more clicks, views, etc.
 
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Raoul

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Admittedly he does come across as a bit of a nutter there. Though it looks like he is addressing a mosque here, so is trying to persuade a group of muslims that violence is not the answer to any of their perceived grievances and that using their religion as an excuse for violence is wrong. It is religious elitism, but then all religions do this. They all believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

I thought that in his debate at the Oxford Union and at another with David Aaronovitch at the LSE, he makes a lot of good points which seem to cut through any stereotypes of islam. He always advocates for the mainstream and moderate people in his religion and helps to debunk a lot of the 'facts' and opinions that newspapers such as the Mail seem to regularly espouse against his religion.

Personally think Britain could do with a lot more reasonable, well educated and articulate advocates for Islam (to an extent like him) in the media. It would definitely help the massive fractures in society that exist because only the most extreme on both sides are represented in the media.

However, they love to roll out the nutters as it attracts more clicks, views, etc.
He is quite articulate and an advocate of normalization of perceptions of Islam among non-Muslims. I can understand however, where the likes of Hasan and Nawaz would bump heads, as they seem to approach the same problem through different solutions. Its fascinating to me that Nawaz, the one person who has had the experience of having been radicalized, served time in prison, then de-radicalized, is being shouted down so vociferously by so called mainstream Muslim talking heads when he is one of the few people qualified to talk about Islamism and deradicalization. Why are mainstream Muslims so opposed to concepts like comdemning apostate beheadings under Shari'a conditions (like this guy @ 3:30 in the video) or (this guy towards the end, who seems to have a problem with condemning stoning women to death).
 

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I assume he's seen as a faith traitor in some circles, since his criticism is usually more inward than outward.
 

Raoul

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I assume he's seen as a faith traitor in some circles, since his criticism is usually more inward than outward.
I gathered that as well. I'm mainly curious why someone who is critical of the worst interpretations of his own religion is widely criticized by so called mainstream members of the same religion. What does that say about the current state of main stream Islam in Britain.