Man City 2020/21 - General discussion

robinamicrowave

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I was wondering about that. Any particular reason why you have so many injuries? Do you have so many injury-prone players (which I do think is a thing), or is there something wrong with training intensity or the medical staff? (If it's rotation, then why don't Liverpool suffer from injuries?)

Or it's just bad luck, of course; but that's always a lame argument and gets poorer as time goes on and the injury trends continue.
Who knows?

Aguero's problem is a knee injury he's never shaken off. Other constant sicknotes are Stones and Mendy.
 

robinamicrowave

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Getting rid of Otamendi is a plus, thought he was woeful for most of his premier league spell.
Was decent but occasionally naff in his first season; was decent but occasionally naff in his second season; was brilliant during his third season; was pretty good during his fourth season; was decent but occasionally naff in his fifth season. No hard feelings, won a load of trophies, goes with our best wishes really.
 

FootballHQ

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That looks like the Argentinian version of Rojo :)
It was hilarious how bad those two were against France in 2018 world cup. Interesting looking on bluemoon and seeing what they made of him and most seem to think the Pep system exposed him too much. I actually think having DM of quality of Fernandinho protected him a fair bit which he didn't get playing for Argentina.
 

padr81

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It was hilarious how bad those two were against France in 2018 world cup. Interesting looking on bluemoon and seeing what they made of him and most seem to think the Pep system exposed him too much. I actually think having DM of quality of Fernandinho protected him a fair bit which he didn't get playing for Argentina.
He was brilliant in our 100 point season and rightly in the team of the season. Never suited to Pep's system but would be competent anywhere else
 

FootballHQ

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He was brilliant in our 100 point season and rightly in the team of the season. Never suited to Pep's system but would be competent anywhere else
Not what I see playing for Argentina.

TBH Man. City were so super human during that year it would've been some effort for any player to look average on a regular basis, can remember Fabian Delph looking pretty good at left back before he started getting exposed in that position the following year and I presume that was Stones best season aswell if he wasn't injured.
 

Pep's Suit

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whats happening with Aguero him now, is this his last season?
I think it is. Almost October and he didn't even start talking to the club about extension so can see him move for last 2-3 years back to La Liga or Seria A. Obviously could depend on what happens this Messi or Kun's health.
 

SqualorVictoria

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Getting rid of Otamendi is a plus, thought he was woeful for most of his premier league spell.
That's a bit over the top. He was a mainstay in the 100 point season (a lot of times with Stones no less!), and generally great throughout the campaign.

EDIT: sorry, saw this point being made already before
 

BrilliantOrange

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How on earth has Pep spent almost a Billion in 4 years and they line up like this against Leicester:

Ederson
Walker - Garcia - Ake - Mendy
Fernandinho - Rodrigo
Mahrez - KDB - Foden
Sterling

There are maybe 3, at a push 4, players there you would say are the required standard. It makes our own squad look pretty good for a change.

Whats your view on this on who those 3/4 are?

I think Ederson, Walker, Fernandinho, Mahrez, KDB and Sterling have proven themselves to be at the required level, where Ake Garcia Mendy, Rodri and Foden are in their first/second season at the highest level - obiviously still have a lot to prove obviously but cant be writter off as 'not the required level' yet...

I think its mostly the inexperienced central duo which you could argue about, but both both of them next to Laporte and you have a team which can beat everyone.
 

11101

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Whats your view on this on who those 3/4 are?

I think Ederson, Walker, Fernandinho, Mahrez, KDB and Sterling have proven themselves to be at the required level, where Ake Garcia Mendy, Rodri and Foden are in their first/second season at the highest level - obiviously still have a lot to prove obviously but cant be writter off as 'not the required level' yet...

I think its mostly the inexperienced central duo which you could argue about, but both both of them next to Laporte and you have a team which can beat everyone.
KDB and Sterling are the only nailed on choices.

Ederson is a possibility, although he has dropped a level from his first couple of seasons.
Walker was there but has also dropped off.
Fernandinho is old now.
Foden is young but getting there.
Mahrez was only ever meant to be a (admittedly good) squad player.

They're not a bad team at all, but after a billion euros you'd expect more than that.
 

Pep's Suit

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Whats your view on this on who those 3/4 are?

I think Ederson, Walker, Fernandinho, Mahrez, KDB and Sterling have proven themselves to be at the required level, where Ake Garcia Mendy, Rodri and Foden are in their first/second season at the highest level - obiviously still have a lot to prove obviously but cant be writter off as 'not the required level' yet...

I think its mostly the inexperienced central duo which you could argue about, but both both of them next to Laporte and you have a team which can beat everyone.
I'm not sure about Mahrez. His numbers are good but he doesn't really fit the team that well and fans hate him. Garcia's ridiculously weak and slow and wants to go anyway, Mendy's like Umtiti after all those injuries he'll never be the player he was 3-4 years ago again and Rodri's another slow player in the team, probably could do well in Italy. Fernandinho's fine but in decline obviously and very likely to leave after this season. Obviously City's still a good team but they need Sterling, Kun, KDB and Laporte to stay fit and in-form Bernardo if they want to finish in Top2, progress past last-16 in CL and win a carabao or something. Right now it's not happening.
 

BrilliantOrange

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KDB and Sterling are the only nailed on choices.

Ederson is a possibility, although he has dropped a level from his first couple of seasons.
Walker was there but has also dropped off.
Fernandinho is old now.
Foden is young but getting there.
Mahrez was only ever meant to be a (admittedly good) squad player.

They're not a bad team at all, but after a billion euros you'd expect more than that.
Hmm... Agree to disagree I reckon.. Fernandinho is getting older yes, but for me hasnt shown significant signs of decline as of yet.. Mahrez was a best last year.. (If only United would have gotten him..)
 

Pablo18th

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When are we going to have a conversation on how Rodri is not as good as advertised and that Laporte and Stones are the same player, the latter's mistakes are just criticised more and he's liked less.
 

FootballHQ

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That's a bit over the top. He was a mainstay in the 100 point season (a lot of times with Stones no less!), and generally great throughout the campaign.

EDIT: sorry, saw this point being made already before
Are Stones and Delph classed as City legends then as they played a fair amount in that season aswell?

Lingard scored two winners in two cup finals for Man. United within a year and 99% of this forum want shot of him a.s.a.p.

I think for players signed for 20 or so million you need to look at their effectiveness over 3-4 seasons which is obivously the level of David Silva, Kompany, De Bruyne, Aguero, Fernandinho etc.
 

SqualorVictoria

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Are Stones and Delph classed as City legends then as they played a fair amount in that season aswell?

Lingard scored two winners in two cup finals for Man. United within a year and 99% of this forum want shot of him a.s.a.p.

I think for players signed for 20 or so million you need to look at their effectiveness over 3-4 seasons which is obivously the level of David Silva, Kompany, De Bruyne, Aguero, Fernandinho etc.
Delph obviously is! :)

I.... never said he is a legend. :) Just that he was a huge asset that one season, which indeed turned out to be quite historical. You are probably right in your last remark though, especially given that those ~30m were quite a large fee still for a centreback back then.
 

Suedesi

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What happened to Silva, he seems to have fallen off the face of the earth?

(Bernardo not David, obviously)
 

adexkola

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Getting rid of Otamendi is a plus, thought he was woeful for most of his premier league spell.
This is absolute nonsense, but again most people form their opinions on players after a few bad games.

It's amazing how a team who has conceded the fewest goals compared to it's rivals over the past 3 seasons in the PL can carry so many
defenders that are awful. If the system is that good that it hides the bad defenders, can we implement it at United so we don't have to replace Lindelof and Bailly?
 

FootballHQ

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This is absolute nonsense, but again most people form their opinions on players after a few bad games.

It's amazing how a team who has conceded the fewest goals compared to it's rivals over the past 3 seasons in the PL can carry so many
defenders that are awful. If the system is that good that it hides the bad defenders, can we implement it at United so we don't have to replace Lindelof and Bailly?
Man. City must average about 70% of the possesion in vast majority of games they play so in that situation you're not going to concede huge amout of chances unless opposition just counter attack to death like Leicester did on Sunday or score a couple of 30 yard goals.

Man. United prefer counter attack but last season only conceded one fewer in the league than Man. City.

Same in 17/18 which I was amazed about when just checking now.
 

SqualorVictoria

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What happened to Silva, he seems to have fallen off the face of the earth?

(Bernardo not David, obviously)
He was surprisingly meh last season, unfortunately. Hopefully can bounce back. Been injured though so far this season, only started with training again.
 

adexkola

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Man. City must average about 70% of the possesion in vast majority of games they play so in that situation you're not going to concede huge amout of chances unless opposition just counter attack to death like Leicester did on Sunday or score a couple of 30 yard goals.

Man. United prefer counter attack but last season only conceded one fewer in the league than Man. City.

Same in 17/18 which I was amazed about when just checking now.
And the defenders are integral to keeping possession, which is why Pep gets in defenders who are good on the ball. If your back line can't keep the ball and make passes and hold a high line then it kneecaps the ability of the midfield and attack to be dominant.

Exactly. If the most important metric is goals conceded, how can City have a significantly worse defense than teams that have conceded one less goal than them? They conceded the least goals in that season, one more than Liverpool the following season, and even in their horror show of last season the goals conceded weren't significantly higher.

They do yield higher quality chances but that's a function of the high risk game they play. And because they (defenders and midfielders) keep the ball so well, those chances are rare. They have a lot to figure out in midfield, they need to get Rodri going.
 

BlueMoonOutcast

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How on earth has Pep spent almost a Billion in 4 years and they line up like this against Leicester:

Ederson
Walker - Garcia - Ake - Mendy
Fernandinho - Rodrigo
Mahrez - KDB - Foden
Sterling

There are maybe 3, at a push 4, players there you would say are the required standard. It makes our own squad look pretty good for a change.
Because Laporte, Aguero, Jesus, Cancelo, Stones, Gundogan, Bernardo, Zinchenko and Otamendi were all unavailable for one reason or another. Money doesn't prevent bad luck.
 

FootballHQ

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Not sure where I've said Man. City have a poor defence, I just don't rate Otamendi at all compared to say Laporte who is excellent CB and ideal for Pep style or even Kompany who offered superb leadership in the 18/19 run in when Man. City really needed it and Otamendi was dumped onto the bench after the first leg loss to Spurs in CL in early April (last start of the season).

Stones and Otamendi are average as we see when they play for their national teams. Interesting to see if Ake can step up over time.

Edit: Aren't you Nigerian Ade? Surely you looked at the last group game at world cup and thought you could get joy from Otamendi if you pressed him. IIRC Ighalo had two one v ones but completely messed them up at 1-1.
 

adexkola

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Not sure where I've said Man. City have a poor defence, I just don't rate Otamendi at all compared to say Laporte who is excellent CB and ideal for Pep style or even Kompany who offered superb leadership in the 18/19 run in when Man. City really needed it and Otamendi was dumped onto the bench after the first leg loss to Spurs in CL in early April (last start of the season).

Stones and Otamendi are average as we see when they play for their national teams. Interesting to see if Ake can step up over time.

Edit: Aren't you Nigerian Ade? Surely you looked at the last group game at world cup and thought you could get joy from Otamendi if you pressed him. IIRC Ighalo had two one v ones but completely messed them up at 1-1.
That's fair, I'm not arguing he's a great defender. I'd say overall he's been decent, with one excellent season in 17/18 and a very good one in 18/19 (especially in the run-in). Same with Stones.

Messi is average going by his form for the national team.

Thanks for reminding me of that game :mad:... Believe it or not, I think the missed chance in that group stage was against Croatia, the team just looked completely anemic. I thought Rojo looked more ropy than Otamendi but then of course he comes away with the game winner... Cnuts
 

DelPotro

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People are overreacting. They still have the best team in the league. Don't forget they beat Liverpool 5-0 a few months ago. How many teams in the world can do that? Laporte is their most important defender but he kept getting injured. Not having a proper striker because Jesus is out for 1 month just after GW1 also didn't help.
 

AlwaysTheKop

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If they don’t win the Champions League, I think this is definitely Peps last season, in fact I think he already knows this is his last season, so I expect for him to be pretty meh on the league front, and for his own CV, he’s gonna go hard for the Champions League.
 

padr81

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If they don’t win the Champions League, I think this is definitely Peps last season, in fact I think he already knows this is his last season, so I expect for him to be pretty meh on the league front, and for his own CV, he’s gonna go hard for the Champions League.
Win the Champions League, We'll be doing well to retain the league cup if we don't sort out our midfield.

I don't think Pep will go. He enjoys the power he has at City. He's bigger than the club, there is nowhere he can go, compete for titles and have that luxury and power over the club. The club was literally built for him for a few years before his arrival. If he does its likely Txiki will be gone too and the club will likely to spend a lot of money on a squad for his replacement because not many managers would want a team so lacking in physicality.
 

Lentwood

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That's a bit over the top. He was a mainstay in the 100 point season (a lot of times with Stones no less!), and generally great throughout the campaign.

EDIT: sorry, saw this point being made already before
It comes down to fans not understanding how the game has changed. Put Otamendi in most sides in Europe and he would be outstanding, however, the demands of playing CB for a top team are different.

For CBs in average/weaker and/or more defensive sides, you spend most of your time defending deep, often marking one attacker between two, with two DMs holding in-front. As long as you are good in the air and fairly strong/agile, you’re OK.

When a player like Otamendi or Maguire goes to a team that want to play on the front-foot, they suddenly find that they are asked to play 45yrds from goal and go 1vs1 against an attacker with only moderate protection from midfield. This is is exponentially harder than the type of penalty box defending CBs at mediocre teams get away with.

Its the same reason why people say there aren’t any good CBs anymore...that’s rubbish (obviously)...its just that they have to be ridiculously good to play in modern systems which are designed to overload attacking areas
 

padr81

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When are we going to have a conversation on how Rodri is not as good as advertised and that Laporte and Stones are the same player, the latter's mistakes are just criticised more and he's liked less.
:lol: I can't even...
 

marktan

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Porto, Man City, Olympiakos, Marseille

Quelle surprise with that draw. Thankfully though unlike with the FA Cup and League Cup, eventually even the weaker teams give City a game and knock them out (Lyon, Spurs)

Apparently this are their draws in the CL group stages in the last 4 years..
20/21: Olympiacos, Porto & Marseille 19/20: Atalanta, Zagreb & Shakhtar 18/19: Lyon, Hoffenheim & Shakhtar 17/18: Napoli, Feyenoord & Shakhtar
 

padr81

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Not gonna lie Pep better sort his shit...

The difference with and without Fernandinho at 6 is huge.

3 times this season we've played half a game.

When Fernandinho plays #6 - full game vs wolves 3-1 win. subbed vs Leicester at 1-1, lost 5-2. Hammered by Leeds after 25 minutes, Fernandinho comes out last 10 minutes, no more changes given up. Pep really needs to swallow his pride and put him back in.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I feel like they have no leadership in their squad anymore ever since Kompany left. Everytime I watched city since last year which is the year when Kompany left the club, they show very little desire to win and hunger. Which is why we beat them three times last season.