Man Convicted in Scotland for Making a Joke

Physiocrat

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Man teaches his dog to salute when he says "seig heil" and to react to "gas the Jews" has been convicted of being "grossly offensive". Even if you think it was offensive, he has been convicted for telling a joke. Freedom of speech is not moving in a good way.

Full story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925

Edit - No member of the public actually claimed they were offended by the video. The police themselves decided that it was and used their diversity statement in court as proof of offence - this is according to Dankula himself in an interview with him

"Grossly Offensive" video-


Edit - Tried just to link the vid, not embed it but it embeds automatically.
 
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DiseaseOfTheAge

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What's he actually been convicted of?

As far as I know 'grossly offensive' isn't a criminal offense.
 

Drainy

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What's he actually been convicted of?

As far as I know 'grossly offensive' isn't a criminal offense.

Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 makes it an offence to send or cause to be sent through a "public electronic communications network" a message or other matter that is "grossly offensive" or of an "indecent or obscene character". The same section also provides that it is an offence to send or cause to be sent a false message "for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another". The defendant must either intend the message to be grossly offensive, indecent or obscene or at least be aware that it was so. This can be inferred from the terms of the message or from the defendant's knowledge of the likely recipient (DPP v Collins [2006] UKHL 40). The offence is committed by sending the message. There is no requirement that any person sees the message or be offended by it. The s127 offence is summary-only, with a maximum penalty of 6 months' imprisonment. However, prosecutions under section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 may be brought up to three years from commission of the offence, as long as this is also within 6 months of the prosecutor having knowledge of sufficient evidence to justify proceedings: s.51 of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/social-media-guidelines-prosecuting-cases-involving-communications-sent-social-media
 

DiseaseOfTheAge

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According to Dankula's tweets, they're considering tagging him and putting him under house arrest.
I imagine he is either quite stressed and contemplating the worst possible or lying.
 

Hitchez

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Not sure I believe his excuse and he's probably a racist man but arresting him for that is quite stupid.
 

Physiocrat

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I imagine he is either quite stressed and contemplating the worst possible or lying.
You'd be stressed if you had this case hanging over your head for two years. They aren't even going to sentence him until late April. The court case itself has become a punishment in and of itself.
 

DiseaseOfTheAge

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You'd be stressed if you had this case hanging over your head for two years. They aren't even going to sentence him until late April. The court case itself has become a punishment in and of itself.
Yes, I agree with all that - which is why I'd argue a small fine would be appropriate.
 

DiseaseOfTheAge

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Everyone who ever commented on a YouTube video or Daily Mail story is guilty of that.
In theory.

In practice, I've managed to comment on Youtube without using the words 'gas the Jews' repeatedly.
 

Rado_N

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In theory.

In practice, I've managed to comment on Youtube without using the words 'gas the Jews' repeatedly.
There must be a documentary about you somewhere?

YouTube comments sections are probably the most racist and inhumane corner of the internet.
 

Avocado

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What about the dog? He's as guilty as the owner
 

DiseaseOfTheAge

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There must be a documentary about you somewhere?

YouTube comments sections are probably the most racist and inhumane corner of the internet.
:lol:

It was not easy. I'm glad you understand my achievement.
 

hobbers

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For this to be a criminal offence is as disgusting as the joke, frankly.

Scotland wanting so hard to be Canada.
 

Sied

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What a complete fecking waste of the police and court's time.
 

Dumbat12

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Our societies are really starting to represent the early stages of dystopia. To jail a man for that? Really?
 

Cheesy

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It's a bit bizarre. I'd understand if it was his child, for example, but this can't really be seen as indoctrination considering it's his dog and not a human. Plus we continue to tolerate Orange Order marches in Scotland which are hardly bastions of decency and contain plenty of vileness. Feels like he's been singled out here, and not for good reason. Even if he is a cnut.
 

Cheesy

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For this to be a criminal offence is as disgusting as the joke, frankly.

Scotland wanting so hard to be Canada.
The conviction is based on a UK-wide law, so no, not really.

Our societies are really starting to represent the early stages of dystopia. To jail a man for that? Really?
I'm completely against this conviction but the idea we're starting to look like some oppressive dystopia is bollocks when you consider there've been vast periods of human history up until recently where people couldn't be openly gay without persecution, or where criticism of the church or monarchy would get you in hot water.
 

hobbers

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The conviction is based on a UK-wide law, so no, not really.
I know but still, I get the feeling that Police Scotland are wasting far too much time on this sort of nonsense when compared with most police forces down in England.
 

Cheesy

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I know but still, I get the feeling that Police Scotland are wasting far too much time on this sort of nonsense when compared with most police forces down in England.
Probably, but ultimately the law is still UK-based and thus the complaint about Scotland doesn't really hold water. And I say that as someone who's got my own complaints about Police Scotland as well.
 

Redlambs

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In theory.

In practice, I've managed to comment on Youtube without using the words 'gas the Jews' repeatedly.
Then you sir, are my new hero!


I'm completely against this conviction but the idea we're starting to look like some oppressive dystopia is bollocks when you consider there've been vast periods of human history up until recently where people couldn't be openly gay without persecution, or where criticism of the church or monarchy would get you in hot water.
This.
 

Physiocrat

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I'm completely against this conviction but the idea we're starting to look like some oppressive dystopia is bollocks when you consider there've been vast periods of human history up until recently where people couldn't be openly gay without persecution, or where criticism of the church or monarchy would get you in hot water.
The car hasn't yet reached there but all the signs are that it is travelling in that direction.
 

Cheesy

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The car hasn't yet reached there but all the signs are that it is travelling in that direction.
In what sense, though? As I'm saying society has always had taboos and a number of things people have been persecuted for saying or doing, often wrongfully. In 50 years we'll likely look back and think of things that have become acceptable/unacceptable to say when it would've been unthinkable now. As I alluded to in my post, institutions like the church and the monarchy used to be incredibly immune to public criticism. During the Cold War and even beforehand anyone who identified as a Communist was often targeted and treated appallingly for having an opinion which differed from the mainstream, McCarthyism being the prime example. And that's not to mention the array of abhorrent regimes in fairly modern, Western countries which were rampant with human rights abuses and a lack of freedom in speech in a time so recently there are still plenty of people who were alive back then.

I can understand opposition to this conviction and would largely agree with that sentiment myself, but it conversely doesn't mean we're headed towards some totalitarian society where the government controls everything we say.
 

711

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Even if you think it was offensive?

Prosecution may or may not be over the top but the op lost me at the start, suggesting there is some doubt over whether it's offensive or not. If Gas the Jews isn't offensive I'm fecked if I know what is.
 

Physiocrat

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In what sense, though? As I'm saying society has always had taboos and a number of things people have been persecuted for saying or doing, often wrongfully. In 50 years we'll likely look back and think of things that have become acceptable/unacceptable to say when it would've been unthinkable now. As I alluded to in my post, institutions like the church and the monarchy used to be incredibly immune to public criticism. During the Cold War and even beforehand anyone who identified as a Communist was often targeted and treated appallingly for having an opinion which differed from the mainstream, McCarthyism being the prime example. And that's not to mention the array of abhorrent regimes in fairly modern, Western countries which were rampant with human rights abuses and a lack of freedom in speech in a time so recently there are still plenty of people who were alive back then.

I can understand opposition to this conviction and would largely agree with that sentiment myself, but it conversely doesn't mean we're headed towards some totalitarian society where the government controls everything we say.
Just one point - making taboo statements didn't always get you in jail, in some cases it did but governments since at least the 1980s, note the Public Order Act in particular, has been clamping down on unauthorised speech.
 

DiseaseOfTheAge

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Just one point - making taboo statements didn't always get you in jail, in some cases it did but governments since at least the 1980s, note the Public Order Act in particular, has been clamping down on unauthorised speech.
Nor has it as yet in this instance. Nor is that likely.
 

Cheesy

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Just one point - making taboo statements didn't always get you in jail, in some cases it did but governments since at least the 1980s, note the Public Order Act in particular, has been clamping down on unauthorised speech.
I'm not referring to any specific period though, and more to human history in general, to highlight the fact that recently and going back in advanced society there have been certain acts/speech which typically got you into a lot of trouble even though we'd find it to be absurd now. The idea we're headed toward some totalitarian dystopia is therefore largely unfounded, even if this is a troubling case.
 

Scarecrow

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That doesn't make you a Nazi, ffs, are you serious? :lol:

He seems like your regular shitposter.
 

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Even if you think it was offensive?

Prosecution may or may not be over the top but the op lost me at the start, suggesting there is some doubt over whether it's offensive or not. If Gas the Jews isn't offensive I'm fecked if I know what is.
It’s offensive. What’s more if he’d taught his dog to respond to comments about blacks, foreigners, immigrants or whatever......as a joke of course....there’d be an outcry on this forum.