Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

pocco

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No, Woodward would be involved in transfers no matter what the DOF job remits are and he will always have the final say, you can make that statement for every CEOs in the world. I agree with your last point though, the issue is to attract the correct people and also identify them. Personally I don't trust Woodward and everyone else including SAF to identify a good DOF, their decisions and the ones that have allegedly been supported by SAF and SBC have been shortsighted and lacked inspiration.

Funnily enough the template in football is always the same and always been like that. It's basically SAF at Aberdeen, you look at someone young in a smaller club who is objectively overachieving, the same is true for DOFs, scouts and coaches.
Every CEO would have final say based on cost I would guess. If the player had a particularly bad reputation then they may object. However, it seems Woodward wants to have input into who we actually sign, which is a different thing. It basically renders the DoF pretty useless. I see no other reason why we would turn down so many of the best DoFs as many of them meet the criteria that you mention, which I agree with.
 

Hawks2008

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Woodward is a grub, no way would he cede power and any competent candidate out there can see this DoF bullshit for what it is. feckhead.
 

JPRouve

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Every CEO would have final say based on cost I would guess. If the player had a particularly bad reputation then they may object. However, it seems Woodward wants to have input into who we actually sign, which is a different thing. It basically renders the DoF pretty useless. I see no other reason why we would turn down so many of the best DoFs as many of them meet the criteria that you mention, which I agree with.
This isn't a thing which is a clear tell that this report is absolute nonsense. Technical directors are entirely linked to the club/structure they are supposed to work for, there isn't a list of best DoFs because there isn't too similar clubs, with similar means or tools. That's why most DoFs are nobodies and popped up out of nowhere with little experience.
 

Cassidy

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Also, it is a knack of getting the balance correct...which Ed hasn't got right.
I'm not saying Ed has been good CEO, I'm saying it is ludicrous to think that at any other club the CEO doesn't have a significant say on transfers since they manage the budget.
 

Mark Pawelek

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[DoF] ... would chair a committee, likely made up of former players, who would recommend transfer targets and take decisions on current players’ futures. The shortlist would then be submitted to Woodward and head of corporate development Matt Judge, who would have the final say.
When a something is designed by committee, it can often end up have so many sub-functions that it fails in its main job. The main job of a United PL squad is to win the PL.



Design by committee is one little problem. I think the main issue is: DoF needs freedom to build a squad. Which means handing over control. If you cannot trust the DoF you want to appoint, then don't employ one.
 

lewwoo

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The next we will hear from the club about a DoF will be after the window closes on another failed summer next year with no right winger.
 

Adisa

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Well, you think at City the ceo makes the decisions on players?

Either way, our ceo or scouting, or both are crap. Something needs changing.
At every club, the CEO makes the final decision on the viability of every transfer.
You think it was Pep or Tixi that made the decision Maguire wasn't worth £80m? It was probably Khaldoon.
 

Phil Osophy

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I'll say it again, the person that will lose power is the current manager not the CEO. That narrative is stupid, has always been stupid and always will be stupid.
I think the same, I don't know a single DoF that operates like he was the owner of the club without reporting to anyone. The Glazers or Woody having a final word doesn't mean that they're going to contradict and ignore what the DoF is suggesting to do. Mainly because they're signing someone for that job because they have no clue, and need a clear reference to bring knowledge and leadership to organize the football side of things.

If VdS was not convinced for any reason it could be something like the structure being complex, something that Phelan complained about last season according to the media. But I don't think Woodward or the Glazers would have the balls to talk with Van der Sar, a respected figure at United and after doing an excelent job at Ajax just to tell him "stay down there with some ex players and think about potential transfers, but you will not decide much".

I mean, not even Woody and the Glazers are so dumb to think VdS would accept to be a plastic toy, and it would be an insult for the man. If they are trying to sign him we must be serious about it, and I believe it's inevitable at this point considering that after 6 years, three managers and X millions we're in a worse state than we were at the start, so there's no margin anymore to keep failing and taking the wrong decisions.

This time I think the club will get serious about this even if they do it with resignation, my main problem is the snail speed we have to do everything as a club. At this point this should have been done already and I still don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
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red thru&thru

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At every club, the CEO makes the final decision on the viability of every transfer.
You think it was Pep or Tixi that made the decision Maguire wasn't worth £80m? It was probably Khaldoon.
Ceo needs to make it clear on what funds are available etc and then it is up to him to go negotiate a dea . If they can't because of the price, fair enough. We all know that's how it works.

However, it has been proven that Ed has done a rubbish job on this so far and he needs hel . He needs someone who can look after the football and identifying the correct players for the budget!
 

Alabaster Codify7

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I think Woodward is making the job unappealing as possible to serious candidates with these terms, if it's true. He can then say the club 'tried' to fill the role but nobody was willing to commit to it, knowing full well that he's made the job impossible to accept.

He has no interest in actually hiring one - he wants the responsibility himself and why would the board want to add another big earning employee to the payroll? They struggle enough adding players, the past few windows.
 

Bloedrood

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Why not just fix the structure of the footballing side of things by bringing in BOTH of Van Der Sar and Overmars and give them the EXACT job for us that they do at Ajax ?
Neither wants to come to United right now though. I think people are underestimating how dedicated they are to the project they started together at Ajax. Overmars was approached for the DoF role at Arsenal near the end of last season too but declined and signed a 5 year contract with Ajax.
VDS has a great record which should allow him the kind of control over transfers he has at Ajax.
Except Overmars handles transfers at Ajax, not Van der Sar.
 
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davidmichael

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Neither wants to come to United right now though. I think people are underestimating how dedicated they are to the project they started together at Ajax. Overmars was approached for the DoF role at Arsenal near the end of last season too but declined and signed a 5 year contract with Ajax.
I meant more in theory then actual reality of it happening, the fact is that Van Der Sar is NOT a Director Of Football at Ajax and I don’t want to see someone brought in to fill a role or job that they’re not a specialist in.

We’re forever seeing people say about playing a player in a different position to see what they’re like there even if that’s not their specialist position and I feel the same about roles/jobs in the boardroom too, I don’t want to see people shoehorned into a position just because.

I’m all for bringing Van Der Sar in but only in his current role at Ajax and seeing as he and Overmars work very well together in their roles then bring them in together in those specific roles, let them run the football side of things and Woodward can do his commercial/business side of things but bring in people whether it be players or boardroom in their specific roles rather than them changing jobs and us hoping for the best.
 

Bloedrood

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I meant more in theory then actual reality of it happening, the fact is that Van Der Sar is NOT a Director Of Football at Ajax and I don’t want to see someone brought in to fill a role or job that they’re not a specialist in.

We’re forever seeing people say about playing a player in a different position to see what they’re like there even if that’s not their specialist position and I feel the same about roles/jobs in the boardroom too, I don’t want to see people shoehorned into a position just because.

I’m all for bringing Van Der Sar in but only in his current role at Ajax and seeing as he and Overmars work very well together in their roles then bring them in together in those specific roles, let them run the football side of things and Woodward can do his commercial/business side of things but bring in people whether it be players or boardroom in their specific roles rather than them changing jobs and us hoping for the best.
I agree, but Van der Sar does the commercial and business side of things at Ajax, he was Marketing Director for years while being trained to take over for the CEO position which he now has. Woodward's position basically is the same as Van der Sar's current position, with the main difference being that transfers and other football matters at Ajax are being handled primarily by Overmars.
 
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red thru&thru

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https://www.skysports.com/share/11813341

Well we can rule him out, I’d have loved to have seen him brought in to fill a similar role to what he has done/is doing as he’s clearly extremely good at it.
He would have been really good but contracts mean nothing at that level. In any case, we won't need anybody like him for a while yet as it seems we won't be getting anyone in.
 

Ikon

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Woodward is a grub, no way would he cede power and any competent candidate out there can see this DoF bullshit for what it is. feckhead.
This comment makes the 280 pages of this thread superfluous..!
 

AneRu

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Woodward is a grub, no way would he cede power and any competent candidate out there can see this DoF bullshit for what it is. feckhead.
Truth, its clear the Glazers are not yet serious about restructuring the club and setting it on a sustainable path to success/competitiveness at the highest level. Our only hope in the short to medium term lies in Ole coming good and an array of stars aligning for him e.g a few players having a breakout season and dragging us somehow into the top 4 or EL glory.
 

TMDaines

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This is exactly why you should have a Director of Football. Our manager is fecking shite, even if we broadly support the transfer policy we adopted this summer. We need to be able to separate the two and hold the manager/first team coach accountable for not being able to get anything out of his first team.
 

fergiesarmy1

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What does that mean? We’ve signed 3 players. 3 years ago Mhikitaryan; Pogba; Bailly and Zlatan seemed like a good recruitment policy. More bull.
Haha exactly and what about the many many many bad signings since Mr Ed was in charge :lol:
 

roonster09

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:lol: We are going to hit rock bottom before Glazers even think of changing Woodward. Depressing times when Woodward can't even see the problem with our recruitment.
 

Crustanoid

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He’s starting his spin even earlier into a manager’s tenure than usual.

He knows exactly what he is doing
 

roonster09

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Has Ole made any comments on the DOF position? How do we even know it's something he wants as well? He seems to have an idea of the type of players we should be targeting.
Tbh we shouldn't be giving so much power to the manager. We need experts at every level, when that's the case we shouldn't expect manager to know ins and out of the players playing in some other leagues. We need dedicated team to work on player transfers, only thing coach should be going is telling them what kind of player he wants or in which position he wants players.
 

MrBrightside1989

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It's like Woodward doesn't want a director of football in... so why not just say that? Literally pretending to be taking a year to find one makes the club look foolish. Just say you don't want one and give a good justification for it!

Question marks must also be raised about who is head of our scouting networks- I know we pick up talented teenagers all the time but their must be some 18-25 year olds in world football that would be good signings for the first team.
James, AWB and maguire were pretty clear and obviously talented signings... that did not need a scouting team to spot...
James was recommended by Giggs and the other two could be spotted by anyone who watched MOTD last season or even anyone who followed Garth Crooks team of the week!!!
 

Kostur

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It's like Woodward doesn't want a director of football in... so why not just say that? Literally pretending to be taking a year to find one makes the club look foolish. Just say you don't want one and give a good justification for it!

Question marks must also be raised about who is head of our scouting networks- I know we pick up talented teenagers all the time but their must be some 18-25 year olds in world football that would be good signings for the first team.
James, AWB and maguire were pretty clear and obviously talented signings... that did not need a scouting team to spot...
James was recommended by Giggs and the other two could be spotted by anyone who watched MOTD last season or even anyone who followed Garth Crooks team of the week!!!
Try three.

He's smart, he won't openly say he's against the DOF because it'd bring unnecessary heat on him. Instead, he'll be talking shit and brief press after every significant loss that we're just about to sign somebody so that he can continue to do nothing about it while pretending he's trying really hard to get somebody in.
 

Lash

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After being pissed off at that comment I posted, I’ve calmed down and realise he was always going to spin it positively on an investor call.

They seriously need to get a DOF in now though. Recruitment in their respective positions may have been good, but 6 games in, it’s evident the squad isn’t good enough or deep enough in quality. That’s a huge failing we basically can’t correct until next summer now. January is usually impossible to recruit in, unless is a Hernandez type signing, from a far flung league.
 

PyroMan

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Tbh we shouldn't be giving so much power to the manager. We need experts at every level, when that's the case we shouldn't expect manager to know ins and out of the players playing in some other leagues. We need dedicated team to work on player transfers, only thing coach should be going is telling them what kind of player he wants or in which position he wants players.
Isn't that giving substantial power to the manager/coach? And I completely disagree with you regarding not giving power to the manager. I feel the manager should have the final say on the transfers and no player should be bought without the approval from the manager. If we sideline the manager, then we end up with a distorted squad.

Look at what happened with Liverpool. Their recruitment team and Fraudgers didn't get along, and they ended up buying two strikers - Firmino and Benteke. As long as Fraudgers was at the club, Firmino was sidelined. Want to avoid something like that at our club.
 

roonster09

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Isn't that giving substantial power to the manager/coach? And I completely disagree with you regarding not giving power to the manager. I feel the manager should have the final say on the transfers and no player should be bought without the approval from the manager. If we sideline the manager, then we end up with a distorted squad.

Look at what happened with Liverpool. Their recruitment team and Fraudgers didn't get along, and they ended up buying two strikers - Firmino and Benteke. As long as Fraudgers was at the club, Firmino was sidelined. Want to avoid something like that at our club.
No, that's not giving substantial power to manager, it's just manager telling the recruitment team what kind of player he wants and for which position. Then recruitment team can get back with the best possible players who fits the profile.

Of course signing players without managers approval is always bad, we are not talking about 2 separate teams with 2 different objectives, we are talking about 2 teams with common objective. So they both should work as a team and if the manager is good with the player being selected, then go ahead and sign him. It's near impossible for manager to keep up with all the players in other leagues. We should have a dedicated team for that, it's also very important to build a network which is something DoFs are good at.
 

PyroMan

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No, that's not giving substantial power to manager, it's just manager telling the recruitment team what kind of player he wants and for which position. Then recruitment team can get back with the best possible players who fits the profile.

Of course signing players without managers approval is always bad, we are not talking about 2 separate teams with 2 different objectives, we are talking about 2 teams with common objective. So they both should work as a team and if the manager is good with the player being selected, then go ahead and sign him. It's near impossible for manager to keep up with all the players in other leagues. We should have a dedicated team for that, it's also very important to build a network which is something DoFs are good at.
Fair enough, I agree with all of that. Just wanted to clarify the points I had highlighted.

Now I'm curious about our recruitment team at present. Who does it consist of and who all are a part of our decision-making process? Woodward does the financial side including negotiations, but who are the people who suggest and draw up names for potential players? Ole seems happy with the acquisition of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka, so I'm sure he's a part of the process too. Wonder if we have a data analytics team backing our scouts.
 

Bestietom

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Woodward said he is not in a hurry to appoint a DOF in the near future. He is happy the way things went this summer and will carry on next year the same way.
100 million to spend. We will be 5 years before we have a team to challenge again.