Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

[stu_1992]

Interesting times. Will reserve judgement until after we see this play out. Immediate reaction is it's a positive step on the club's part. Not sure it will sit right with the manager however.

 

[Dion]

Where is this from?

There is a reddit user who frequently drops info (usually trivial stuff like sponsorship announcements) with pretty remarkable precision on the Man Utd subreddit to the point where he must have at least a minor contact within the club. Whether it's 100% true or his speculation I cannot say either way.

 

[tonnas]

As much as we all love it, Neville, Becks, Rio and the likes can't be DOF. A DOF is above the manager, he will dictate they styles and players to come in, he alongside the boards will choose the next manager and so on, so any of the above cant be it. The onyl ex Utd players that may be up for it are VDS (although is is currently Ajax CEO and MAYBE Butt). Id rather go with Athleticos' Andrea Berta

 

[liamp]

There is a reddit user who frequently drops info (usually trivial stuff like sponsorship announcements) with pretty remarkable precision on the Man Utd subreddit to the point where he must have at least a minor contact within the club. Whether it's 100% true or his speculation I cannot say either way.

Point #3 is frustrating. If they knew the structure was outdated under Fergie, why didn't they revamp it after he left? Why are we still in this position 5 years later.

 

[Nikhil]

David Gill would be the perfect choice. He’s experienced at transfers. It’s like he’s being wasted sat on the board when instead he could have a more impactful role at the club and more importantly, on football affairs.

 

[Dion]

Point #3 is frustrating. If they knew the structure was outdated under Fergie, why didn't they revamp it after he left? Why are we still in this position 5 years later.

I imagine it's because when you have a constant turnover of managers, all who are famously control freaks who want to be involved at every level, doing anything at all takes a long time.

 

[ti vu]

Point #3 is frustrating. If they knew the structure was outdated under Fergie, why didn't they revamp it after he left? Why are we still in this position 5 years later.

That's what I am talking about, that all the point sound she like Woodward is infallible and he has no part in any of the problem. I swear these briefing and ITK makes it sound like Woodward is a Scouse.

 

[BluesJr]

People who want a DOF need a reality check. LVG was a director of football I doubt you'd be OK with him.

This is just a way for Woodward to put a buffer between himself and the managers so he's no longer in the firing line. At the end of the day any DOF will just be a Glazer puppet.

This is an absolute disaster.

Sorry but this is not true. Modern football is proving you need a system in place, at present we do not have one and it's clear we've suffered from it.

 

[Dion]

David Gill would be the perfect choice. He’s experienced at transfers. It’s like he’s being wasted sat on the board when instead he could have a more impactful role at the club and more importantly, on football affairs.

No thanks, I'd actually like to close out a transfer where another club wants to buy the player once in a while.

 

[liamp]

I imagine it's because when you have a constant turnover of managers, all who are famously control freaks who want to be involved at every level, doing anything at all takes a long time.

The transition period between managers (including the point during the season when you make the determination to terminate the manager) is the time to do this. We've had ample opportunity from Moyes to LVG to make the necessary structural changes. We even got close with Monchi a few years ago. I think it's clear that either the club chose not do this or that they didn't historically provide enough opportunity/power for the proposed DoF position to do something meaningful. Either way, that's the club's fault.

 

[Greck]

The DoF and restructuring plans have been a reality since early this year
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/united-set-to-appoint-a-director-of-football.437598/
But of course if you think they will employ someone to empower any hint of short termism from any manger, you might be in for a surprise.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Copying a comment from someone who has shown at least vague ITK creds.





He then went on to say the person we leaned on wasn't Zorc but was in the same league.

Hmm...Ralf Rangnick maybe?

 

[Dion]

The transition period between managers (including the point during the season when you make the determination to terminate the manager) is the time to do this. We've had ample opportunity from Moyes to LVG to make the necessary structural changes. We even got close with Monchi a few years ago. I think it's clear that either the club chose not do this or that they didn't historically provide enough opportunity/power for the proposed DoF position to do something meaningful. Either way, that's the club's fault.

But which manager did they want to undermine to do this? Between SAF and Moyes and you're pissing Moyes off, between Moyes and LvG and LvG isn't happy and then there's no way Mourinho would have happily taken the job if we installed a fresh DOF. There's also the issue of actually finding the right person for the job who will gel with the new manager. The best time would have been between SAF and a new manager who wasn't Moyes, sadly... Moyes.

 

[7even]

So Mourinho will go to Gareth and say, "I need a 29 yo center back, so I can play 3 at the back." What is the approved range of the GS responses?

1. "Utd plays 442 only. You have to play 442."
2. "Great idea! Let me get you (all the players Mourinho asked for originally, making the DoF position superfluous)".
3. "Varane is a great defender. Let's wait for him to become available." And nothing happens.
4. "We need better attackers instead. Let's go for --- instead, you'll just have to make it work."
5. "The board don't want to spend any money or sell anyone. You'll have to make due."

I'm not seeing that you're doing much more that making a not-particularly great manager the boss of a world class manager. Because?



What problem are you trying to fix?

Ok. I will give you my view but the bolded part is where you go wrong.

First of all being a DoF is a different job then being a manager. Your conversation example will never happen because that’s not how it works. One of the first thing a DoF should do is to create a framework based on our history and identity who defines the clubs DNA and philosophy.

Another important thing will be to resuming the great network of local British scouts that Sir Alex started over 30 years ago. At the moment we are behind in that departement. Delle Ali, Maguire, Sterling, TAA and Robertson are type of players who should be identified much earlier by our network instead of buying expensive and short term because a new managers.

Third important thing to do for a DoF is to take care of middle and long term planning. Short term the manager make the calls but if we are going to invest heavily we need a broader view about what kind of profile we should buy or sell.

The manager first priority will be to coach the players he has to his disposal based on the framework created by the DoF, the DoF will be in charge of transfers, scouting network and contract negotiations.

The final say regarding changing philosophy, buying and selling star players is a teamwork between the board, the CEO and the DoF. A manager in today’s world is short term that’s why his input is just second opinion and not a final decision.

That’s my take on how a co operation between the manager and the DoF would work.

 

[Dion]

Hmm...Ralf Rangnick maybe?

Christian Heidel another potential name. Could also have been Sammer given the timeline but thats less likely.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We don't know all the internal communication and conflicts.
That being said, let's agree that executive and management team wants the best for the club.

What happened this summer appears to be lack of agreement on targets or budget (due to lack of communication? lack of share vision? lack of confidence in each other? Sanchez who has been struggling so far with huge salary? the way Pogba/Martial were treated last year? who knows).

DoF position is going to be the key to get everyone on the same page.

Woodward and his team focus on business and financial of the club. I doubt Woodward monitors development of our academy close nor heavily involved in football.

Mourinho and his team involved with first team players, monitor academy but their job does not involve business nor financial parts of the club.

DoF's responsibility over transfer targets should be a positive impact.
I don't see it as a bad thing to have a technical person to challenge manager which targets we should target.
I think for most part they will agree on the positions and probably players.
If they disagree on players, then there will be a good debate between the two.
I doubt our DoF will be "I dont care what manager wants, it's my way!". I expect DoF to look for a win-win situation for everyone.

Getting DoF now also comes with positives. There will be time for DoF to learn our players, understand Woodward's requirements, tweak scouts as needed, etc... before making recommendations for next transfer window.

Also, when Jose leaves, DoF will be in good position to recommend on next manager that fits the players and the vision.

 

[Sterling Archer]

People who want a DOF need a reality check. LVG was a director of football I doubt you'd be OK with him.

This is just a way for Woodward to put a buffer between himself and the managers so he's no longer in the firing line. At the end of the day any DOF will just be a Glazer puppet.

This is an absolute disaster.

A buffer would be a tremendous improvement on what we have now. The public spat between Jose and Woodward has been awful. Maybe the DOF is a puppet, maybe he or she isn't. Can't make that judgement now.

But worst case - it's no worse than now . Best Case - we see a big improvement in all our football dealings , the manager is happier and the execs also get what they want

 

[Ramshock]

What’s a job description for a DoF?

My take. Administration and diplomatic skills, collecting data, organize our scouting network, negotiator, financial sense, eye for talents, probably a doos of charisma and charm and finally a bit of authority.

I think that being from the British Islands is a good start. International experience is a must. Good manners, professional attitude, hunger and proven work ethic will help.

Gareth Southgate is someone who maybe can fit the above profile. Comes with a good reputation, perfect age and has a proven track record regarding football knowledge. The day he’s available he could be a candidate.

Can you explain the last paragraph unless you are still high from Englands over hyped WC run

 

[liamp]

But which manager did they want to undermine to do this? Between SAF and Moyes and you're pissing Moyes off, between Moyes and LvG and LvG isn't happy and then there's no way Mourinho would have happily taken the job if we installed a fresh DOF. There's also the issue of actually finding the right person for the job who will gel with the new manager. The best time would have been between SAF and a new manager who wasn't Moyes, sadly... Moyes.

Why couldn't they hire a DoF and then hire the coach? Why couldn't the coach be hired knowing they'd be working under a DoF? We can argue this for ages but I just don't believe that they didn't have ample opportunity to correct this. They chose to perpetuate the manager model, they chose not to revamp the scouting system (Ribalta came in what, 2017?). Is Jim Lawlor still the fecking chief scout at this club at this point?

 

[Dion]

Why couldn't they hire a DoF and then hire the coach? Why couldn't the coach be hired knowing they'd be working under a DoF? We can argue this for ages but I just don't believe that they didn't have ample opportunity to correct this. They chose to perpetuate the manager model, they chose not to revamp the scouting system (Ribalta came in what, 2017?). Is Jim Lawlor still the fecking chief scout at this club at this point?

Correct recruitment processes take time, I'm not sure we've ever had enough stability to vet a DOF and then vet a manager.

 

[liamp]

Correct recruitment processes take time, I'm not sure we've ever had enough stability to vet a DOF and then vet a manager.

What turnover has their been in our executive management or ownership structure that would cause sufficient instability to not be able to accomplish that? Gill left in 2013 and Woodward's been Chairman since. The Glazers have been in place for more than a decade now. Arsenal, with their ownership turmoil, managed to onboard Sanllehl and Mislintat within a couple of months of each other in late 2017.

 

[7even]

Can you explain the last paragraph unless you are still high from Englands over hyped WC run

You view Southgate as a manager and I view him as a potential DoF. Different perspective gives different outcomes.

And btw why should I get over hyped over a national team that’s not mine. I was impressed with Southgate because of his approach to players, media and how he handled the pressure being a high profile national manager. From my memory he dealt with it superb and I’m sure the British FA is very satisfied with his behavior.

 

[witchtrials]

let's agree that executive and management team wants the best for the club.

I don't think that that issue is so simple that we can take it as a given.

You only have to look at Arsenal's contentment with top 4, or Mike Ashley being happy for Newcastle to stay in or around the Premier league honeypot, to remember that the owners' interests are often the large income generated by the club, which is by no means the same as what the fans want, which is, broadly, striving for the most successful and most enjoyable football on the pitch.

 

[Dion]

What turnover has their been in our executive management or ownership structure that would cause sufficient instability to not be able to accomplish that? Gill left in 2013 and Woodward's been Chairman since. The Glazers have been in place for more than a decade now. Arsenal, with their ownership turmoil, managed to onboard Sanllehl and Mislintat within a couple of months of each other in late 2017.

It's instability on the sporting front. It was easier for Arsenal because they had Arsene, trying to replace a manager and a DoF in the same time period is a massive ask. The amount of background work that has to go in sequentially is massive and in football decisions made by the manager and DoF have to be made quickly. I'm glad that we're finally getting around to it now we've had a vaguely stable managerial appointment, but the problem was the crappy managerial choices not giving us the opportunity.

 

[the chameleon]

It’s got to be someone that understands the United way and has a business streak to them. The main people that stand out are:
- Gary Neville
- Rio Ferdinand

We could even do a two-man team.For example, Barcelona used to used to use soriano and begiristain as a two man team. They are now both together at city.

Just because someone was a great at some Italian club, doesn’t mean they’ll be a great director of football at Man Utd.

Both Chelsea and Tottenham have made some bad DoF appointments.

In fact, getting someone based solely on their CV in another country holds a bigger risk than getting someone who understands what our club stands.

We’re not trying to become Juventus or Real Madrid. We’re trying to become Manchester fecking United. The best version of our club. And to do that, this person needs to know our values inside out.

Having written all this, I actually think a 2 man team of at least one ex-red would be a dream combination.

Gary Neville + Rio.

Or

Maybe one of them (as they both charismatic and business savvy) + a Ribalta type character.

 

[goin4glory]

Sorry but this is not true. Modern football is proving you need a system in place, at present we do not have one and it's clear we've suffered from it.

A coach will choose what system to play, not a DOF. If you sacked Mourinho and brought in Poch he wouldn't play the same system, and if you sacked Poch then brought in Anchelotti he wouldn't play the same system.

There are dozens of clubs around europe with DOF's who are atrocious, just ask the guy who replaced Matic with drinkwater and Bakayoko.

A DOF will just add another layer of blame, if the DOF brings someone in who the coach doesn't like/play then he'll go to the board and say coach X isn't using him right, coach X will say the player is useless and it's just a vicious cycle.

We had Fergie and no DOF for for 20+ years. No one should be able to tell him who to buy.

A buffer would be a tremendous improvement on what we have now. The public spat between Jose and Woodward has been awful. Maybe the DOF is a puppet, maybe he or she isn't. Can't make that judgement now.

But worst case - it's no worse than now . Best Case - we see a big improvement in all our football dealings , the manager is happier and the execs also get what they want

A DOF won't stop public spats, Mourinho had plenty of them with the DOF at Madrid and Chelsea. A manager should be able to choose his own players and live or die by them.

 

[the chameleon]

A coach will choose what system to play, not a DOF. If you sacked Mourinho and brought in Poch he wouldn't play the same system, and if you sacked Poch then brought in Anchelotti he wouldn't play the same system.

There are dozens of clubs around europe with DOF's who are atrocious, just ask the guy who replaced Matic with drinkwater and Bakayoko.

A DOF will just add another layer of blame, if the DOF brings someone in who the coach doesn't like/play then he'll go to the board and say coach X isn't using him right, coach X will say the player is useless and it's just a vicious cycle.

We had Fergie and no DOF for for 20+ years. No one should be able to tell him who to buy.



A DOF won't stop public spats, Mourinho had plenty of them with the DOF at Madrid and Chelsea. A manager should be able to choose his own players and live or die by them.

Very valid points!

Style of play needs to be considered and understood. They have to responsible creating an aligned style from grassroots to first ala Ajax or Barcelona.

 

[Sterling Archer]

@goin4glory like I said, a DOF will do no harm and be no worse than it seems now. So if there's only the risk of betterment, why not ?

 

[steffyr2]

Ok. I will give you my view but the bolded part is where you go wrong.

First of all being a DoF is a different job then being a manager. Your conversation example will never happen because that’s not how it works. One of the first thing a DoF should do is to create a framework based on our history and identity who defines the clubs DNA and philosophy.

Another important thing will be to resuming the great network of local British scouts that Sir Alex started over 30 years ago. At the moment we are behind in that departement. Delle Ali, Maguire, Sterling, TAA and Robertson are type of players who should be identified much earlier by our network instead of buying expensive and short term because a new managers.

Third important thing to do for a DoF is to take care of middle and long term planning. Short term the manager make the calls but if we are going to invest heavily we need a broader view about what kind of profile we should buy or sell.

The manager first priority will be to coach the players he has to his disposal based on the framework created by the DoF, the DoF will be in charge of transfers, scouting network and contract negotiations.

The final say regarding changing philosophy, buying and selling star players is a teamwork between the board, the CEO and the DoF. A manager in today’s world is short term that’s why his input is just second opinion and not a final decision.

That’s my take on how a co operation between the manager and the DoF would work.

DOF's job
1. Create "framework", which means?
2. Recreate network of great British scouts.
3. Do middle (5 years out?) and long term planning (10 years out?)
4. In charge of buying/selling players
5. Negotiating contracts
6. Responsible for team's performance!

Manager's job
1. Coach existing players, except he has to do it to the DOF's framework (I guess this means that if the DOF wants 442, the manager plays 442?)
2. In charge of short term buying/selling -- except not really, because the DOF wants that budget for longer term

It looks like the manager's job would be for someone like Mike Phelan and the DOF would be for Mourinho. Rather than going to Gareth Southgate (not particularly extraordinary as a manager) to make the big decisions, and hiring the world class manager to handle day to day training.

Are you sure that's how DOF works?

I'd think it would be more like
DOF
1. Manage scouting network (and get a scouting network if ours is bad atm)
2. Make sure that near term, midterm and long term planning is considered
3. Flow budget constraints to the manager and determine amount to spend per time period
4. Buy/sell players to the manager's directions

Manager
1. Manage teams -- all of them
2. Define necessary buys and sales
3. Responsible for team's performance!

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

How much of experience in being DoF, our ex players have? And no, I don't wont any of them doing it, (we might see some Salford City players), only because it is very romantic thing, that only United would do! Right. Wrong.

That guy from B.Dortmund, or that guy from Atletico. We need a great DoF, and experienced one, and respected one, and we need him now!

If you want romance, go and watch Bridget Jones.

 

[el3mel]

How much of experience in being DoF, our ex players have? And no, I don't wont any of them doing it, (we might see some Salford City players), only because it is very romantic thing, that only United would do! Right. Wrong.

That guy from B.Dortmund, or that guy from Atletico. We need a great DoF, and experienced one, and respected one, and we need him now!

If you want romance, go and watch Bridget Jones.

I think Bechkam can do a good job here. Forget about Giggs/Scholes..etc. I can't see them in such jobs.

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

About time. Surprised it took this long considering the Glazers are american and 99% of professional teams over there have general manager/director making personnel decisions as opposed to the coach/manager.

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

I think Bechkam can do a good job here. Forget about Giggs/Scholes..etc. I can't see them in such jobs.

hmm, no, I'm aware he knows the game, and loves the club, but so does Giggs/Scholes, all of them. No, he is too much of world wide celebrity, with other things and business plans on his mind.

 

[HoopsMcCann]

Neymar's Dad

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

I think Bechkam can do a good job here. Forget about Giggs/Scholes..etc. I can't see them in such jobs.

Beckham? Hmmm, interesting, at first I thought this was an dumb suggestion, but transfer recruitment is such a major factor for the director position which Beckham with his level of respect in the game would be great at, but there are a lot of other facets of the job that would concern me with him, the day to day details and grind, not sure he would be up for it.

 

[goin4glory]

@goin4glory like I said, a DOF will do no harm and be no worse than it seems now. So if there's only the risk of betterment, why not ?

I disagree that there's only a risk of betterment. I think a DOF is being brought in to remove the blame from Woodward/Glazers and that's it. It was ultimately the Glazers decision to not spend large amounts this window and Woodward has said in the past that they didn't see the level of investment continuing. The owners are perfectly happy to rake in the ££ as long as we make top 4, they have zero intention to match City/Madrid in the transfer market even when we have the resources to do so.

 

[7even]

DOF's job
1. Create "framework", which means?
2. Recreate network of great British scouts.
3. Do middle (5 years out?) and long term planning (10 years out?)
4. In charge of buying/selling players
5. Negotiating contracts

Manager's job
1. Coach existing players, except he has to do it to the DOF's framework (I guess this means that if the DOF wants 442, the manager plays 442?)
2. In charge of short term buying/selling -- except not really, because the DOF wants that budget for longer term

It looks like the manager's job would be for someone like Mike Phelan and the DOF would be for Mourinho. Rather than going to Gareth Southgate (not particularly extraordinary as a manager) to make the big decisions, and hiring the world class manager to handle day to day training.

Are you sure that's how DOF works?

I think my first impression was spot on, we have different experience regarding management. Thanks again and let’s hope the board make the right decision about how to progress with our management problems.

 

[el3mel]

hmm, no, I'm aware he knows the game, and loves the club, but so does Giggs/Scholes, all of them. No, he is too much of world wide celebrity, with other things and business plans on his mind.

I think he has all the tools : understands football pretty well, understands business pretty well and will have great charisma in front of any player he'll talk to. Can't think of a player saying no to Beckham. He's worth a shot if we're talking about an ex player.

I think Giggs/Scholes/Neville don't have any sort of charisma and won't understand the business point well. Beckham seems to tick most the boxes.

Sure It'll be better to get someone more experienced for this role, but I'm talking if the selection was from ex-players only.

But forget it anyway, I'm not expecting anyone to get appointed. It'll be forgotten by the board as the time goes on and the article clearly says that they're more worried about things regarding facilities for the women team then will look at it. I think they're just calming the fans that's all.

 

[the chameleon]

Beckham? Hmmm, interesting, at first I thought this was an dumb suggestion, but transfer recruitment is such a major factor for the director position which Beckham with his level of respect in the game would be great at, but there are a lot of other facets of the job that would concern me with him, the day to day details and grind, not sure he would be up for it.

How about Beckham + Rio or Gary Neville.

One would be more involved with all business facets and beckham would be great for transfer related stuff!

 

[Trizy]

About fecking time.

Daft tweet text. Did City invent the DoF?

I was thinking the exact same thing.