Good to see Neville and Carragher laying the blame on Woodward.
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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A lot of misconceptions on here and a lot of people seem to view the situation in a black or white manner when its not. A few in particular annoy me which i'm going to address.
"Woody is just a money man, what the f*** does he know about football..."
This is someone who also attends every match and watches them play each week, and then also gets to watch them everyday in training, and talk to scouts, coaches, agents about football. You can say he knows nothing about football when in in all honesty, he probably knows more about 'football' then you and me. Thats not to say he knows more then mourinho, but that brings me to the next point. Do people genuinely believe he veto's players of mourinhos choice, and goes and chases whoever he wants? Do people not realise there are more 'footballing' men at the club then just mourinho, and that before saying yes or no to anyone he would utilise and consult the CLUBS scouts. Even Charlton and Fergie sit on board and will regularly talk to woodward.
"A director of football is just shifting blame..."
A lot of negative hysteria about a DoF but its the way forward in my opinion. They ensure the long term future and philosophy of the club is maintained. DoF and manager draw up a list of transfer targets, whichever names show on both lists are passed on to woodward. It seems the appointment DoF isnt reactive either, and has been in the pipeline for a while. We were linked with Monchi sometime ago and i get the impression that we haven't appointed someone yet as we're waiting for the right person and not rushing to get someone in for the sake of it.
"Hes not backed mourinho, either back him or sack him"
Well, this is two points. He's not backed mourinho....actually yes he has. The money spent under mourinho is considerable and this is the first window where woodwards put his foot down with mourinho (and rightly so imo). 5 transfer windows to stamp his authority yet our weaknesses are the same. The right wing was non functioning when he took over and its just as bad now. If mourinho prioritized another left winger then that's his own fault (though i still dont know to this day why we dont just stick sanchez on the right). Live by the sword, die by the sword. Now i appreciate City have spent more and we're not entitled to always win, HOWEVER, with what weve spent and the the time in charge, we have to put up challenge as the absolute bare minimum. If we come first second or even third we have to at least challenge and so far we havent, nor do we look like we're going to. Second point, back him or sack him. True to a certain extent, but what if we've identified a replacement who isnt available until next year? Isn't getting top 4 with mourinho preferable to paying him off and risk not getting top 4 with a caretaker manager? A hypothetical scenario but perfectly plausible why you cant use it as a stick to beat hime with. Far too many unknowns.
Dont get me wrong Woodward isnt perfect and has made mistakes, most recently giving mourinho the contract extension imo, but he is anything but a problem at the club. The arguments to sack him are simply ridiculous. Your hearts implore you to be right, but its an emotional argument to make him the big bad wolf. The very fact we are able to compete with the oil clubs shows he's competent in his role.
"Woody is just a money man, what the f*** does he know about football..."
This is someone who also attends every match and watches them play each week, and then also gets to watch them everyday in training, and talk to scouts, coaches, agents about football. You can say he knows nothing about football when in in all honesty, he probably knows more about 'football' then you and me. Thats not to say he knows more then mourinho, but that brings me to the next point. Do people genuinely believe he veto's players of mourinhos choice, and goes and chases whoever he wants? Do people not realise there are more 'footballing' men at the club then just mourinho, and that before saying yes or no to anyone he would utilise and consult the CLUBS scouts. Even Charlton and Fergie sit on board and will regularly talk to woodward.
"A director of football is just shifting blame..."
A lot of negative hysteria about a DoF but its the way forward in my opinion. They ensure the long term future and philosophy of the club is maintained. DoF and manager draw up a list of transfer targets, whichever names show on both lists are passed on to woodward. It seems the appointment DoF isnt reactive either, and has been in the pipeline for a while. We were linked with Monchi sometime ago and i get the impression that we haven't appointed someone yet as we're waiting for the right person and not rushing to get someone in for the sake of it.
"Hes not backed mourinho, either back him or sack him"
Well, this is two points. He's not backed mourinho....actually yes he has. The money spent under mourinho is considerable and this is the first window where woodwards put his foot down with mourinho (and rightly so imo). 5 transfer windows to stamp his authority yet our weaknesses are the same. The right wing was non functioning when he took over and its just as bad now. If mourinho prioritized another left winger then that's his own fault (though i still dont know to this day why we dont just stick sanchez on the right). Live by the sword, die by the sword. Now i appreciate City have spent more and we're not entitled to always win, HOWEVER, with what weve spent and the the time in charge, we have to put up challenge as the absolute bare minimum. If we come first second or even third we have to at least challenge and so far we havent, nor do we look like we're going to. Second point, back him or sack him. True to a certain extent, but what if we've identified a replacement who isnt available until next year? Isn't getting top 4 with mourinho preferable to paying him off and risk not getting top 4 with a caretaker manager? A hypothetical scenario but perfectly plausible why you cant use it as a stick to beat hime with. Far too many unknowns.
Dont get me wrong Woodward isnt perfect and has made mistakes, most recently giving mourinho the contract extension imo, but he is anything but a problem at the club. The arguments to sack him are simply ridiculous. Your hearts implore you to be right, but its an emotional argument to make him the big bad wolf. The very fact we are able to compete with the oil clubs shows he's competent in his role.
I agree he's only doing what his bosses want. My priorities are what he should be doing. My point is that the Glazers are awful owners and always have been, and that is the root cause of the club's decline.
That latest briefing shows they feel they need to publicly support Woodward. Seem a bit rattled.
It's worth remembering that the two best managers in Europe were widely agreed to be Klopp and Pep. Both were available during Ed's tenure and he never got remotely close to either. He didn't really try tbh. And now we are where we are.
So saying LVG, Moyes, Jose were sensible appointments in context is to miss the point. We lost our chance to dominate when we missed out on those guys and that's down to Ed.
So saying LVG, Moyes, Jose were sensible appointments in context is to miss the point. We lost our chance to dominate when we missed out on those guys and that's down to Ed.
Klopp wasn't widely agreed as one of the two best managers in Europe. He just came off a season where he came 7th with Dortmund and got knocked out in the Ro16 in the CL and was notorious for bottling finals. His early season form had Dortmund in the relegation zone. He was known as a very good coach who played exciting football. I do agree he would have been a much better fit than LVG though. The whole adult Disney thing though, can you really blame the guy for not being interested?
Whilst I don't agree with that, I do agree with the premise that it's down to Ed. No matter how good a manager is, they need a platform to thrive, something we haven't given any of our managers post SAF. You hire Jose, who is known for shit football and results, give him a squad of players signed for different football, then limit his spending to get the players he wants to succeed. Then complain he isn't playing breathtaking football, despite Jose literally never being known for that.
Look at City. They restructured their whole academy and signed players/played football similar to Pep's as they were planning for Pep years before he came. He came into the job with a very good squad of players reaching their peaks. He didn't like the defence? They spent a feckload of cash and basically replaced all of it in one summer.
There is no future planning and that is down to the board. We can sign whatever manager and players we want, without a proper foundation in place we will always be left behind. You can't just keep acting on a whim and in the now and expect to topple other multi-billion dollar clubs who do plan.
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Can someone at the club please leak a copy of Ed’s KPIs and performance reviews.
I’d like to see what order they’re in, and if success on the pitch is featured at all.
I doubt it is. His job is to make money and provide the first team coach with a competitive squad.
I’m speculating though and have no idea like everyone else on this site. No offence, everyone.
I’d like to see what order they’re in, and if success on the pitch is featured at all.
I doubt it is. His job is to make money and provide the first team coach with a competitive squad.
I’m speculating though and have no idea like everyone else on this site. No offence, everyone.
Jose is not going to be a stooge and suck it up like Wenger did for Arsenal with no money even if the Glazers want to give him the job for life. His reputation is on the line. He will make sure that United sack him and lay the blame on Ed and the owners. He will not walk. This is going to be painful for the fans, but I kind of understand.
Joint owners. The football league system and the football league are two separate things, Salford City are in the former but not the latter, yet, at any rate.
Don't disagree with most of this. The back him or sack him line also comes from not wanting to watch Jose's football week in week out if the aim is only top 4. There really is no in-between unless Ed expects the fans to sacrifice their enjoyment of the game for 6 to 8 months. Not surprising since they did this with Moyes and LVG. Jose's only use at United is winning titles because the entertainment value on display is very low
How do you know Pep was available??
Everyone thought he would be the new City manager and most likely it had been the plan a long time.
And how do you know he didnt try?
You must have some inside information I guess?
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The problem with hiring dof while you have manager in charge is that dof and manager must have good understanding and same vision. Guardiola and txiki have that, jose had that with branca. But if you put somebody who is different than jose, what then? We would have another war in club. I still believe that jose does not want dof( except somebody who will be basically his right hand and listen to him)
So it is either they bring somebody in who Jose wants and we might do what he wants but much more efficiently, or we get a
new manager and a DOF both that suit Manchester United with regards to future planning and style?
My fear with Woodward is that history will repeat itself 'If' Jose fails to turn this round.
We persisted with LVG for far too long in that awful 2nd season, with Ed seemingly lacking the ruthless action to remove LVG in early 2016 after the pitiful Champions League exit, the poor Xmas run and the dire stuff being served up on the pitch.
If Woodward has already lost faith with Jose over transfers, then he simple needs to remove Jose is both the off and on.pitch situation does not improve.
I'd give Jose until the international break to change our style of play, improve the dressing room and sort out his tactics (inc not putting Mata out wide). If there hasn't been sufficient process then he needs to go, with a caretaker put in to stabilise the situation. Unfortunately I think Woodward will dally and do nothing until it's far too late.
We persisted with LVG for far too long in that awful 2nd season, with Ed seemingly lacking the ruthless action to remove LVG in early 2016 after the pitiful Champions League exit, the poor Xmas run and the dire stuff being served up on the pitch.
If Woodward has already lost faith with Jose over transfers, then he simple needs to remove Jose is both the off and on.pitch situation does not improve.
I'd give Jose until the international break to change our style of play, improve the dressing room and sort out his tactics (inc not putting Mata out wide). If there hasn't been sufficient process then he needs to go, with a caretaker put in to stabilise the situation. Unfortunately I think Woodward will dally and do nothing until it's far too late.
The thing that bothers me is, what happens if the new DoF is no good? It seems like the DoF is somebody that needs a few years to set in place their ideas, structure aspects of the club to suit and recruit the players needed. People on here go on like hiring a DoF is some sort of magic cure that will bring good football and success here, which is incredibly naive to me.
The only way I'd be fully for this is of there was an outstanding candidate that had shown over many years that they understand this club and know exactly what is required here. I don't want somebody that knows nothing about the British market, for example. With that in mind, only a former player would fit the bill for me, or somebody British that knows all about us but is proven in the role.
The only way I'd be fully for this is of there was an outstanding candidate that had shown over many years that they understand this club and know exactly what is required here. I don't want somebody that knows nothing about the British market, for example. With that in mind, only a former player would fit the bill for me, or somebody British that knows all about us but is proven in the role.
CL isn't really a good indicator for me since it's a cup. Anything can happen really and luck plays a larger role. I bet you they won't get anywhere near the finals this time, even though they have a better team.
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Things are afoot re: the fans and giving Woodward a rude awakening apparently 
Woodward apologists stand by your beds...
Woodward apologists stand by your beds...
Another signing made. This time with Indian bank ICICI. Possibly again getting richer playing shit football.
If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, I can't see it making the slightest difference (see record share price tweet above).Things are afoot re: the fans and giving Woodward a rude awakening apparently
Woodward apologists stand by your beds...
Good to know that Ed Woodward retains the complete confidence of Ed Woodward.
Exactly.
Both good, the latter better, but at this point, I just want to enjoy football again. So whatever it takes
Yep. Second part of this video (cant embed it) is Gary speaking about the organizational structure.
https.://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSu8Vl2JUKw
Both him and Carragher are great pundits, never knew ex players could become this.
https.://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSu8Vl2JUKw
Both him and Carragher are great pundits, never knew ex players could become this.
Well that is new.....
That they were Adventure Capitalists, and jolly good at it
Makes no sense that. We're waiting to make footballing decisions before appointing DoF?
What kind of fecked up logic is that. You just appoint DoF and give him that as a a first assignment. It's much easier to start with a clean base rather than afterwards fix everything up and tune to his ways...Cant tell if you are being sarcastic since I rarely listen to english pundits, we got enough great ones here in Sweden who doesnt expect us to win the WC every time since '66Well that is new.....
The new DoF won't be arriving anytime soon and even when he does, I expect him to be a "yes" man. The DoF was only mentioned when the media highlighted that Woodward purposely did not buy players, using the excuse of "no value in the market", even though all the other clubs around us were buying/spending.Makes no sense that. We're waiting to make footballing decisions before appointing DoF?
Our DoF is Ed Woodward and the decisions are based on financials and how much money the new signing can make for our club.
Regarding football management - just get top 4, spend as little money as possible in the transfer windows and the manager will have a job for life.
People need to understand that this club is owned by people who don't care for football/soccer. They took charge of the club, to be used as a cash cow. They will milk it to its maximum and only invest when absolutely necessary (ie. when the cow is showing signs of serious illness or death). If the cow is reasonably healthy and able to give milk, as little as possible will be spent on it.
The Glazers relied on Fergie to spend little and get good results, while he was here, now they have Jose, they expect the same of him.
For evidence, look what happened during the last transfer window.
Last season, Jose got 2nd place, quite easily. So the Glazers thought, "Jose can get top 4, with the same squad". Woodward (the DoF) agreed and the net result was the purchase of only 1 first team player, with the aim of top 4.
Jose got pissed off and started saying things to the media, which suggested that he was not being financially backed. Jose wanted to push for the title, but our board did not want to finance a league title campaign.
Now, what I found absolutely insane was when our own fans were saying things like, "don't spend any more money on Jose's player choice". What they were indirectly saying was that they wanted that money to go straight into the pockets of the Glazers, rather than be spent on players, which is why I use the term, "insane".
funny ‘cos it’s true. Poor Ed. Must be so hard being expected to multi-task.
Hmmm... Now who could that mystery “source” be?
Agreed on both points.
I did state in another thread that the big worry for me is that MUFC are no longer going to be a club who aim to win the title. Those days may be gone.
We are now a club who aspire to make the biggest profits/revenues. In essence, we are now supporting a business and our Cup final will be the day when the financial results are released and Woodward gives his end of year, financial statement. We'll win the Cup final, if we announce a significant profit increase and we will really be on cloud nine, if the share price goes up significantly.
I know it's depressing, but this could come to pass. In 2-3 years, we shall know whether or not, we are the new Arsenal.
Should’ve happened a decade ago.
The club’s preperations for SAF’s retirement was amateur at best, and absolute shambles.
The club’s preperations for SAF’s retirement was amateur at best, and absolute shambles.
Gill and Fergie basically going at the same time has been so disastrous for the club, the lack of a plan that was put in place was pretty criminal for a club of our size and wealth.
1 Because he joined City
2 Because Pep said so.
Pep to City had been destined for ages, they'd literally been building the club and laying the foundation for his move there for years.
It’s the textbook example of a lack of corporate succession planning. It could hardly have been handled worse.
Absolutely right. It just seemed like Fergie's remit was so all-encompassing that the board barely even thought about the structure of the club in the (inevitable) event of him retiring. The noises out of the club during Fergie's later years was that there was a solid plan in place but, as we know know, this plan didn't consider how we'd cope we the loss of both Gill and Fergie. And here we are now. Rudderless and totally fecking clueless.
His move to City was set up ages before - that's why they got the former DoF from Barcelona.
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