Managers Draft - MJJ VS CRAPPY

Which team would win?


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Annahnomoss

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Rate based on peak abilities under manager.

Team MJJ

Tactics


My side will be employing the 4-3-3 used by lippi to great success. The midfield is defensively solid and sets up a base from for the attackers to exploit with their talents.

The forwards are going to move into spaces instead of being a static front three and exploit the gaps that open up with crappy's weaker defensive line. The defense and midfield are going to defend based on positioning, with a deep defensive line and not pressing anyone unless they had cover behind them hence negating one of the advantages of total football i.e. dragging players out of position.

While the front three are going to push on and press crappy's centreback and deepest midfielder thus winning the ball closer to goal and exploiting it to the maximum front. With both baggio and del piero capable of dropping deep, there wont be any significant gaps for between my midfield and attack and vieiri is going to aerially dominate the opposition backline thus providing another option for my side.

GK- One of the greatest italian goalkeepers of all time, peruzzi enjoyed great success under lippi. Winning Serie A keeper of the year twice.
Defense-

Zambrotta is considered as one of Italy's greatest pundits and was at the peak of his powers under lippi, getting into the Uefa Euro team of the year in 2004.
While inter under lippi were disappointing, there is no question that zanetti was as good as he ever was, captain under lippi, zanetti was one of the positives in a disappointing season for inter.
Ferrera and Thuram- Both excelled under lippi forming what was then considered then one of the best defenses in the world.

My defense is formed of physically imposing players who are good at the ball and wont be caught out by crappy's attack. Zanetti and Zambrotta in particular will enjoy running down the flanks and crossing it in for vieiri.

Midfield-

Deschamps- One of the finest defensive midfielders in world football, deschamps played under lippi from 94-99, winning the french footballer of the year(96) along the way.
Conte- Juvenus captain and one of the best midfielders of his generation.
Jugovic-One of the best serbian players ever and a top midfielder of his generation. Jugovic played a key role in the 96 Champion League Triumph.

The midfield is formed of some of the best players in history, all three of them are defensively sound and capable of transitioning defense into attack at a moment's notice.

Attack-

Baggio- Possibly the greatest italian player of all time, baggio was at the peak of his powers when lippi took over . Placing second in the Ballon D'Or and one year on from winning the european and world player of the year.
Del Piero- Juventus Legend, Del Piero played the majority of his career under Lippi.
Vieri- Vieri played for Lippi no fewer than three times in his career but his 1999 version is being used here when he won the serie A player of the year and signed for inter for a world record fee.

Key Battle


Gol alla Del Piero or the del piero zone. Del piero was a master of cutting in from the left and curling the ball into goal. With suurbier being very weak defensively, I can see this being a crucial matchup and something that will present a few goal scoring opportunities for my side.


TEAM MJJ-------------------------------------------------------------------------- TEAM CRAPPY


Formation:Total Football (2-3-2-3 / 4-3-3)

Total Football IS NOT tiki-taka. As our esteemed substitute Sjaak SWART, Mr. Ajax said - “In four passes we would be in front of goal. Nowadays they take twenty passes — backwards, sideways, backwards. We didn’t play like that. We went for the goal.”

Total football did not mean passing the ball into the net, Ajax team in fact scored a lot of goals via headers from crosses and even played long ball at times. In defensive phase, it would involve all players on the pitch closing the spacing as much as each player expanding it while in attacking phase.

Attack! Attack! Attack!

Up top Cruyff plays the pivotal role. Essentially he is the conductor of the whole attack, his position guiding the position of others. Some examples of fluid movement of players in attacking phase -
- If Cruyff moves to the left wing, Kiezer goes to the near post, Littbarski moving to far post, Neeskens moving to central attacking position
- Or if Cryuff moves to the left, joined by Krol, Kiezer drops back to cover the left wing, Neeskens makes a foray into the opposition box.
- If Cruyff moves to the CAM role, Kiezer (or Nesskens) moves up front, Littbarski stretches the play on the right.
- Then of course Cruyff stays up front himself, with others supplying him.
+++ Plus countless other combinations.

On top of that you add in the attacking full backs in Krol and Suurbier. Krol remains one of the best defenders full stop to ever play the game. His total footballing skills are bonafide proven by the fact that he went to play the role of a sweeper later on in his career. Suurbier, provides an excellent outlet on the right and is as usual maligned as other attacking full backs for being defensively suspect. Which ignores the fact that either of Neeskens or Littbarski are capable of covering for him. Krol, Kiezer and Cruyff's axis on the left is pretty much unstoppable.

Defensive strangulation

As Krol puts it - "When we defended we looked to keep the opponent on the halfway line. Our standpoint was that we were not protecting our own goal, we were attacking the half way line.”

Haan and Vasovic play a similar pivotal role as Cryuff in the defensive side of things. A defense that would be playing a high line to facilitate the off side trap in keeping with Rinus' model of providing no space to opposition to play with.

Vasovic
has the honor of being the player that completed Rinus' model of total football. One of the pioneers of sweeper role, he could as comfortably play the role of defensive midfielder in modern game as the role of last defender. From the horse's mouth itself -
"When I came, I preferred to play a kind of total football. I played the last man in defence, the libero. Michels made this plan to play very offensive football. We discussed it. I was the architect, together with Michels, of the aggressive way of defending. I did small things, like make an offsde or stand in the wall to make a gap for goals. When you see examples from other players on field, you learn a hundred times better than in training,”

Haan, a complete midfielder, would drop back into defenses if needed to cover for Vasovic forays into the midfield with the ball. Known for his rocket shots, he would also pop up outside the opposition box in some attacking phases.

In attacking phase, you would normally have at least 3 men back line. While in defensive phase, a normal 4 one with Neeskens/Cruyff pressing the opponents on the ball, Haan and Asensi closing the space in front of back 4 and the two wingers tracking their runners.

A word on some lesser known players

Piet Kiezer, who some Ajax fans back in the day considered better than Cruyff. Together they were known as the royal pair with one creating and another scoring and vice versa.

Migueli and Asensi, two Barca legends. Migueli is frequently a part of all time Barca 11 and remains one of their best defenders ever. His physicality is typified by the fact that he played part of a European final with a broken collarbone.Asensi a complete central midfielder under Michels at Barca (stayed there for 10 years), a key player of their 74 league win and also scoring a goal in European final in 79.

Finally, the manager himself, Rinus Michels. For some, the best manager to ever grace the game. Architect of possibly the best club side of all time, a team he rescued from near relegation; architect of still discussed total-football. And also importantly, a winner who drove all of the club or national sides he managed to success.

To summarize, make no mistake this is very much an attacking football set up. It was after all pioneered as a response to notorious catenaccio. In attacking phase you can have at times as many as 8 players involved but at the same time the whole team works as a unit to close down space and win back the ball in defensive phase.
 
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antohan

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I expected that Lippi side to have an immense back four, yet MJJ seems to have cocked it up. Four right-footed RBs :lol:
 

MJJ

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I expected that Lippi side to have an immense back four, yet MJJ seems to have cocked it up. Four right-footed RBs :lol:
ferrara wasn't a right back? and zambrotta was exceptional at left back and thuram was equally at ease in centerback.

if crappy is planning to play in my half with an high line all it will take is a ball over the top for baggio and del poetic to run onto with vieiri winning the first header most of the time.
 

antohan

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ferrara wasn't a right back? and zambrotta was exceptional at left back and thuram was equally at ease in centerback.
Ferrara was a right-CB or RB. It's not that they can't play in these positions, it's the oddity of seeing four players I would be fine with seeing at RB making up a back four. The upside is you'll never be short of RBs. You should have picked Montero IMO.

if crappy is planning to play in my half with an high line all it will take is a ball over the top for baggio and del poetic to run onto with vieiri winning the first header most of the time.
:lol:
 

MJJ

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Ferrara was a right-CB or RB. It's not that they can't play in these positions, it's the oddity of seeing four players I would be fine with seeing at RB making up a back four. The upside is you'll never be short of RBs. You should have picked Montero IMO.



:lol:
Am typing from my mobile :(

I wanted to pick kohler, cannavaro or vierchowod but couldnt be bothered arguing if the latter was at his peak or not and I think ferrara was a better player than montero to make up for him being on his weaker foot.

Can I ask why do you think crappy is going to win this? As normally you take your time with your votes.
Too many players, that I hardly know. :lol:


Not a huge fan of Baggio and Del Piero in the same team, but eventually both would be devastating in this match.
They did play together for two seasons though with great success so it has worked in real life as well. Plus I think both have plenty of room to work with as am not playing with wingers so dont see them getting in each other way but gelling really well.
 

crappycraperson

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ferrara wasn't a right back? and zambrotta was exceptional at left back and thuram was equally at ease in centerback.

if crappy is planning to play in my half with an high line all it will take is a ball over the top for baggio and del poetic to run onto with vieiri winning the first header most of the time.
Yeah. Ofcourse it is that simple :wenger:

Playing a high line was the bread and butter of these players. The Ajax team that forms the spine of my team here under Michels went on a run like this -

Trophies won: European Cup 1971; Dutch league 1966, 1967, 1968, 1970; Dutch Cup 1967, 1970, 1971; European Cup runner-up 1969
Once Rinus left, the built team by him only, won 72 and 73 European cup as well. along with the leagues

If you think the domestic opposition was fodder then think again, they were up against a very strong Feyenoord team who themselves won 1970 European cup.

In any case, who is going to play the ball up top? You simply do not have a Pirlo or Scholes in your team unless you are going to resort to aimless long balls.
 

MJJ

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Yeah. Ofcourse it is that simple :wenger:

Playing a high line was the bread and butter of these players. The Ajax team that forms the spine of my team here under Michels went on a run like this -

Trophies won: European Cup 1971; Dutch league 1966, 1967, 1968, 1970; Dutch Cup 1967, 1970, 1971; European Cup runner-up 1969
Once Rinus left, the built team by him only, won 72 and 73 European cup as well. along with the leagues

If you think the domestic opposition was fodder then think again, they were up against a very strong Feyenoord team who themselves won 1970 European cup.

In any case, who is going to play the ball up top? You simply do not have a Pirlo or Scholes in your team unless you are going to resort to aimless long balls.
Deschamps, jugovic and conte are all good passers of the ball who could easily transition defense into attack. Both your defenders are shorter than vieiri so its reasonable to assume that he is going to win the aerial ball more often and is going to dominate them physically. With your fullbacks being weak and the class of del piero and baggio, two of the greatest italian players ever, I will have more than enough opportunities to score.

Add onto the fact that you dont seem to have a specific tactical plan to nullify my attack rather than play a high defensive line and press high means no one is man marking those two from roaming into space of which there will be plenty.
 

crappycraperson

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Too many players, that I hardly know. :lol:


Not a huge fan of Baggio and Del Piero in the same team, but eventually both would be devastating in this match.
I will help you out.

A good write up Piet Kiezer - http://backpagefootball.com/world-cup-legends-holland-piet-keizer/77412/
A very very short clip of what he can do -
Great write up Vasovic - http://backpagefootball.com/velibor...completed-michels-total-football-dream/68896/
Even before Ajax, he was a critical player for Red Star Belgrade. The article above captures well the influence he had on young cruyff and Krol.

I hope you know about Cruyff, Krol, Haan, Neeskens, Littbarski :D
 

MJJ

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Also, in 1971 they defeated panathinaikos, the strength of greece was such that they didnt even qualify for the worldcup so not sure how good they really were under michels.
 

crappycraperson

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Deschamps, jugovic and conte are all good passers of the ball who could easily transition defense into attack. Both your defenders are shorter than vieiri so its reasonable to assume that he is going to win the aerial ball more often and is going to dominate them physically. With your fullbacks being weak and the class of del piero and baggio, two of the greatest italian players ever, I will have more than enough opportunities to score.

Add onto the fact that you dont seem to have a specific tactical plan to nullify my attack rather than play a high defensive line and press high means no one is man marking those two from roaming into space of which there will be plenty.
Let's start off with Baggio as a right inside forward? If you are asking him to stretch the play on the right then that is odd because winger he was not. It will be mostly Zanetti on that right against Kiezer, Krol and Cruyff at times. No way he will be joining in any attack. I am not even sure who will be crossing to Vieri those aerial balls from the flank.

My tactics are fairly simple. I have simply not bothered to arrange any kind of set up to nullify your attack. That's not what is going to happen. My team is going to play one way and that is forward whether they are 1-0 up, 1-0 down or it is 0-0. I have actually been very honest about how this kind of team will approach the match. The ball is actually in your park when it comes to tactics against the opposition, unless you think your team can dominate possession or have my team camp in their half as my team can do it to yours. You should spell out, if you plan to defend with the whole team and rely only on counters or would you actually compete for the ball out there.
 

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I will help you out.

A good write up Piet Kiezer - http://backpagefootball.com/world-cup-legends-holland-piet-keizer/77412/
A very very short clip of what he can do -
Great write up Vasovic - http://backpagefootball.com/velibor...completed-michels-total-football-dream/68896/
Even before Ajax, he was a critical player for Red Star Belgrade. The article above captures well the influence he had on young cruyff and Krol.

I hope you know about Cruyff, Krol, Haan, Neeskens, Littbarski :D
cheers. :)
 

Jayvin

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I expected that Lippi side to have an immense back four, yet MJJ seems to have cocked it up. Four right-footed RBs :lol:
Zambrotta was a great left back under Lippi to be fair. Not sure who this Ferrera bloke is though :p
 

MJJ

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Let's start off with Baggio as a right inside forward? If you are asking him to stretch the play on the right then that is odd because winger he was not. It will be mostly Zanetti on that right against Kiezer, Krol and Cruyff at times. No way he will be joining in any attack. I am not even sure who will be crossing to Vieri those aerial balls from the flank.

My tactics are fairly simple. I have simply not bothered to arrange any kind of set up to nullify your attack. That's not what is going to happen. My team is going to play one way and that is forward whether they are 1-0 up, 1-0 down or it is 0-0. I have actually been very honest about how this kind of team will approach the match. The ball is actually in your park when it comes to tactics against the opposition, unless you think your team can dominate possession or have my team camp in their half as my team can do it to yours. You should spell out, if you plan to defend with the whole team and rely only on counters or would you actually compete for the ball out there.
There is a difference between exploiting the gap that opens up between your right back and your right central defender than being a right inside forward. I never said he would be stretching the play at all. Why would I need to do that when half your team is going to be in my half? The easiest way to bypass them all is a ball over the top which vieiri will win 9/10 and my attackers will do the rest.

Am I the only one who see this ending up in disaster? Thats straight from arsene wenger school of management.
 

Jayvin

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Feel bad for stealing Davids and Cannavaro from MJJ now, add those two and his team would be pretty immense.

edit: gonna need some time to decide on this game, saw the all the arrows and immediately gave up.
 

crappycraperson

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There is a difference between exploiting the gap that opens up between your right back and your right central defender than being a right inside forward. I never said he would be stretching the play at all. Why would I need to do that when half your team is going to be in my half? The easiest way to bypass them all is a ball over the top which vieiri will win 9/10 and my attackers will do the rest.
So it will be about long balls then. I think you are giving that tactic too much credit. If it was that simple to use against teams that play with high line then many a team would have beaten Barca easily in the era just gone by. All you need is a big striker after all.

Secondly, not sure you have elaborated on who will be helping out Zanetti here. As great as he may be, no way he alone can fight off the right flank. Can you afford all 3 of Vieiri, DLP and Baggio staying up front even?
 

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Am I the only one who see this ending up in disaster? Thats straight from arsene wenger school of management.
It could if my attacking set up was not good enough to score against your defense or outscore your team no matter the tactic you employ.

Will there be odd one out matches like when Germany beat the Dutch in the final in 74? Yes. But if you play this match 10 times, my team will win at least 8 times against this set up.

There is simply too much attacking firepower there in Cryuff, Neeskens, Kiezer, Littabrski, Krol and too much fluency between players to be stopped.
 

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So it will be about long balls then. I think you are giving that tactic too much credit. If it was that simple to use against teams that play with high line then many a team would have beaten Barca easily in the era just gone by. All you need is a big striker after all.

Secondly, not sure you have elaborated on who will be helping out Zanetti here. As great as he may be, no way he alone can fight off the right flank. Can you afford all 3 of Vieiri, DLP and Baggio staying up front even?
As evidenced by the success drogba had against them. I agree that its not all about long balls as del piero and baggio are wonderful dribblers as well who can play intricate football but its not needed here. Even barca didnt try to play at opponents' half line as that suicide if you are against pacy players who are good dribblers.

Also, total football had a great success against catenaccio as that is all about man marking and with your players interchanging you would drag them out of of position and exploit the gap. Here none of that is going to happen as my team is defending based on positioning and will keep its shape at all time so it doesnt matter if cruyff swaps with the left winger or the centreback or the rightback as no player is gonna follow him there.

Another point to be raised is how much of that success was down to superior stamina? Are you positive your team can keep up a full press for 90 minutes against the tireless midfielders I have in defense?

Re:Zanetti. If you beat him wide, then am happy for you to cross the ball in as cruyff isnt the tallest or the best header of the ball. If you beat him and come inside, you have to deal with probably one of the best RCB in football history in thuram with a defensive midfielder dropping deep as well i.e. plenty of bodies to nullify the gap. Will the same happen when del piero sneaks in between suurbier and vasovic while the rest of your team is happy attacking? Who seems to be on the wrong side by that anto. posts. I think not.
 

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There are some simple questions that should be answered here IMO-

A common attacking phase would be -

Cruyff moves to the left, Kiezer to the middle, Krol runs forward. Now who is following who? Does Thuram follow Cruyff and Zanetti Kiezer? Who tracks on Krol marching forward? One of the CMs? If yes, then which CM picks up Nessken's run. Is it Ferrera or Zambs who is on Littbarski.
 

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It could if my attacking set up was not good enough to score against your defense or outscore your team no matter the tactic you employ.

Will there be odd one out matches like when Germany beat the Dutch in the final in 74? Yes. But if you play this match 10 times, my team will win at least 8 times against this set up.

There is simply too much attacking firepower there in Cryuff, Neeskens, Kiezer, Littabrski, Krol and too much fluency between players to be stopped.
Is that the reason why every modern side which has one the CL recently done so based on a solid defense? Even SAF realized that you need defensive solidity to succeed at the highest level. On a similar level your defense is completely shit if all those players are attacking. Who is defending if the attack fails or does that not happen in this total football fantasy?

Not to mention you arent even holding the ball but relying on quick transitions with a weak defense while you are up against three world class attackers.

Remind me how many tournaments the famous dutch side won anyway? I bet its a bit harder as the likes of panathicos dont make the world cup or euro finals.
 

crappycraperson

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As evidenced by the success drogba had against them. I agree that its not all about long balls as del piero and baggio are wonderful dribblers as well who can play intricate football but its not needed here. Even barca didnt try to play at opponents' half line as that suicide if you are against pacy players who are good dribblers.

Also, total football had a great success against catenaccio as that is all about man marking and with your players interchanging you would drag them out of of position and exploit the gap. Here none of that is going to happen as my team is defending based on positioning and will keep its shape at all time so it doesnt matter if cruyff swaps with the left winger or the centreback or the rightback as no player is gonna follow him there.

Another point to be raised is how much of that success was down to superior stamina? Are you positive your team can keep up a full press for 90 minutes against the tireless midfielders I have in defense?

Re:Zanetti. If you beat him wide, then am happy for you to cross the ball in as cruyff isnt the tallest or the best header of the ball. If you beat him and come inside, you have to deal with probably one of the best RCB in football history in thuram with a defensive midfielder dropping deep as well i.e. plenty of bodies to nullify the gap. Will the same happen when del piero sneaks in between suurbier and vasovic while the rest of your team is happy attacking? Who seems to be on the wrong side by that anto. posts. I think not.
I think you have taken that Krol quote too literally. :lol:

Cryuff was no mug when it came to headers. The Kiezer clip has him scoring from a Kiezer cross in a European final.

And regardless of how good Zanetti was, I will back Cruyff and even Kiezer to get past him. In Cruyff you are talking about someone who took on Beckenbauer himself in 74.
 

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Is that the reason why every modern side which has one the CL recently done so based on a solid defense? Even SAF realized that you need defensive solidity to succeed at the highest level. On a similar level your defense is completely shit if all those players are attacking. Who is defending if the attack fails or does that not happen in this total football fantasy?

Not to mention you arent even holding the ball but relying on quick transitions with a weak defense while you are up against three world class attackers.

Remind me how many tournaments the famous dutch side won anyway? I bet its a bit harder as the likes of panathicos dont make the world cup or euro finals.
I will start with you still not answering as to who will be picking Krol up.

They didn't win any WC, which actually adds to the legend of the total football. You are dead wrong about the Ajax team though. Here is a footballing site that named them the best team of all time ahead of your Madrid's, Barca's and Milans

http://footballpantheon.com/2011/05/the-50-greatest-european-club-sides/6/
 

MJJ

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I think you have taken that Krol quote too literally. :lol:

Cryuff was no mug when it came to headers. The Kiezer clip has him scoring from a Kiezer cross in a European final.

And regardless of how good Zanetti was, I will back Cruyff and even Kiezer to get past him. In Cruyff you are talking about someone who took on Beckenbauer himself in 74.
I will start with you still not answering as to who will be picking Krol up.

They didn't win any WC, which actually adds to the legend of the total football. You are dead wrong about the Ajax team though. Here is a footballing site that named them the best team of all time ahead of your Madrid's, Barca's and Milans

http://footballpantheon.com/2011/05/the-50-greatest-european-club-sides/6/
Well since your write up doesnt really metion any tactics and includes that quote under defensive strangulation, I naturally assumed you are trying to play the ball in my half.


I already answered that in my tactics and during this thread, hence not repeating myself. I can send you a clip of messi scoring against vidic and ferdinand with a header, doesnt make him a good header of the ball.

So they won nothing, not even the euros? Yet you think they will suceed and I quote " 8 times out of 10".

How much of that is for revolutionizing football by doing something different then being a viable option though?
 

antohan

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Can I ask why do you think crappy is going to win this? As normally you take your time with your votes.
Not having much time to take my time these days. I just see a team that I know exactly how it will work vs. a team that looks static, laboured, lacking any fluidity in its transition and overly-reliant on a bit of genius far up the pitch.
 

MJJ

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Not having much time to take my time these days. I just see a team that I know exactly how it will work vs. a team that looks static, laboured, lacking any fluidity in its transition and overly-reliant on a bit of genius far up the pitch.
The midfield and attack I am playing is the same that played for lippi though, with the exact same setup to great success. While the team looks defensive, it never had any problems with transition though.
 

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Well since your write up doesnt really metion any tactics and includes that quote under defensive strangulation, I naturally assumed you are trying to play the ball in my half.


I already answered that in my tactics and during this thread, hence not repeating myself. I can send you a clip of messi scoring against vidic and ferdinand with a header, doesnt make him a good header of the ball.

So they won nothing, not even the euros? Yet you think they will suceed and I quote " 8 times out of 10".

How much of that is for revolutionizing football by doing something different then being a viable option though?
Ofcourse it was viable. If it was not, they would not have won 3 European cups in the trot or reached consecutive WC final in 74 and 78.

Arrogance played a part in their 74 downfall. The german team that beat was actually very good but yes I do stand by my statement that you play that match 10 times, Dutch would win it 8 times.
 

MJJ

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Ofcourse it was viable. If it was not, they would not have won 3 European cups in the trot or reached consecutive WC final in 74 and 78.

Arrogance played a part in their 74 downfall. The german team that beat was actually very good but yes I do stand by my statement that you play that match 10 times, Dutch would win it 8 times.
Its not just one tournament, they failed in every major tournament. From WC 74 to Euro 80, four tournaments to make their mark and zero trophies.
 

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From your tactics -

The defense and midfield are going to defend based on positioning, with a deep defensive line and not pressing anyone unless they had cover behind them hence negating one of the advantages of total football i.e. dragging players out of position.

While the front three are going to push on and press crappy's centreback and deepest midfielder thus winning the ball closer to goal and exploiting it to the maximum front. With both baggio and del piero capable of dropping deep, there wont be any significant gaps for between my midfield and attack and vieiri is going to aerially dominate the opposition backline thus providing another option for my side.


Some contradictions there. Your front 3 will be pressing my defenders or Haan and at the same time you will be playing a deep defensive line, but there will be no significant gap between your midfield and attack? Even though your midfielders will be sitting in front of your deep defensive line.

Also not sure how you are going to track runs from deep if you are not going to mark anyone. No one is picking Krol for starters, Neeskens one of the best all time CMs pretty much is going to break forward multiple teams. Would be suicidal not to pick him up
 

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Its not just one tournament, they failed in every major tournament. From WC 74 to Euro 80, four tournaments to make their mark and zero trophies.
They did make their mark and that's why despite losing two WC finals, they are still counted amongst the best teams of all time.
 

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From your tactics -

The defense and midfield are going to defend based on positioning, with a deep defensive line and not pressing anyone unless they had cover behind them hence negating one of the advantages of total football i.e. dragging players out of position.

While the front three are going to push on and press crappy's centreback and deepest midfielder thus winning the ball closer to goal and exploiting it to the maximum front. With both baggio and del piero capable of dropping deep, there wont be any significant gaps for between my midfield and attack and vieiri is going to aerially dominate the opposition backline thus providing another option for my side.


Some contradictions there. Your front 3 will be pressing my defenders or Haan and at the same time you will be playing a deep defensive line, but there will be no significant gap between your midfield and attack? Even though your midfielders will be sitting in front of your deep defensive line.

Also not sure how you are going to track runs from deep if you are not going to mark anyone. No one is picking Krol for starters, Neeskens one of the best all time CMs pretty much is going to break forward multiple teams. Would be suicidal not to pick him up
Thats the beauty of your playing a high line, that gaps wont open up as you will be compacting the midfield by pushing your defenders up.


That answers your question. They can run from the deep all they want, my midfielders will be waiting for them. I am curious though, if your midfilder is breaking forward, if you defenders are breaking forward how do you think you are going to stop my attackers when they have the ball? By my count it will be vieri, baggio and del piero against suurbier(who will be breaking forward/is wank defensively anyway), vasovic and migueli. The gap between your fullbacks and central defender is too big and will be a prime spot for del piero and baggio to exploit
 

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They did make their mark and that's why despite losing two WC finals, they are still counted amongst the best teams of all time.
Again, down to the style of football. Four attempts to win something despite having some of the best players in the history of football including cruyff and nothing but failure. At some point you have to wonder how much of that is down to tactical naivety and maybe having the whole team attacking including the defenders is not the best way to win the game.

You took care to point out that total football is not tiki taka but atleast tiki taka was successful at domestic and international level instead of failing at every major tournament(the WC was the litmus test back then) and calling it arrogance.
 

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Its not just one tournament, they failed in every major tournament. From WC 74 to Euro 80, four tournaments to make their mark and zero trophies.
You are losing the plot here. Yes, they revolutionised football. Yes, the NT didn't win any tournaments but Ajax won plenty.

Your argument would hold more water if directed at the umpteenth Brazil 82'-themed 4-2-2-2 but saying that brand of football didn't work and wasn't successful is disingenuous, to say the least.
 

MJJ

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You are losing the plot here. Yes, they revolutionised football. Yes, the NT didn't win any tournaments but Ajax won plenty.

Your argument would hold more water if directed at the umpteenth Brazil 82'-themed 4-2-2-2 but saying that brand of football didn't work and wasn't successful is disingenuous, to say the least.
Am not saying they are not a good side but am arguing that they werent that good where you can just disregard tactics altogether and go ZOMG ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK! and expect to win the majority of the time.

Am using the WC as much like the CL in our time, the WC was a litmus test back then and a question needs to be asked why exactly did one of the greatest sides failed so much.