Suv666
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- Feb 11, 2016
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Whole lot of whataboutism going on in the media. The simple fact stands, City are cheaters its been pretty obvious for years. Should be stripped off and relegated.
They've cultivated a gaggle of sycophants in the media just for this purpose for the past few years. They are very easy to mark out now.There seems to be some sympathy for City in the media, which I don't understand at all.
Yeah, I’m often quite lenient toward Chelsea in these kinda threads, especially compared to City as I do remember them being a reasonably competitive and successful side before the takeover (Zola never played a single game under the Ambramovich regime, for example) ... but the one majorly obnoxious thing they started, that the Arab royal clubs have continued, is the practice of gross squad hoarding, even extending to their academies... No team should be allowed to have essentially two whole first XI level sides...I am fine with sugar daddies tbh.
What I am not fine with is sugar daddies skewing everything by spending orders of magnitude more than their neared competitors, whose response to failed big money signings is just to put them on the bench and buy another big money signing. Chelsea was bad enough, but the state funding that City and PSG introduced just took the piss.
I do think the FFP should be more lenient towards sugar daddies putting money in, in a sustainable manner.
Am only glad to see the corrupt piss take the city owners have attempted being flushed down the drain.
Exactly. People like to moan about the big clubs staying big but that doesn’t explain the fact that absolutely any club can invest all their money in their youth team, make a concentrated effort to get all the best youth players in their catchment area, find some of the best under 19 youth prospects in Europe and develop a team that can challenge for titles. Along with that, market themselves in a way that increases their brand and revenue streams.Aren't Leicester (champions a few years back and practically top 4 certs this year) and to a much lesser extent Spurs (already a pretty big club but a regular CL team now) an example of smaller clubs breaking into the big time fairly and squarely? I just don't see how you can paint City as victims. If they had operated within the law and achieved the level of success they have had over the years then that would be fine. They've cheated though, soooo....yeah, not sure how you can play the victim card.
Some must be on the payroll, or getting very nice Christmas presents.They've cultivated a gaggle of sycophants in the media just for this purpose for the past few years. They are very easy to mark out now.
Thats on CL missing out only though. Imagine if players can leave for free on breach of contract, would KDB stick around for 2 seasons with no CL. Imagine the wages Real etc.. could throw at them with no transfer fee. The guy is probably the best CM in the world and at his peak. Not gonna like if I was him I'd be gone. Honestly I think only the older players and squad fillers would stick around. Anyone whose in their peak would be crazy to waste 2 seasons like that.That's highly unlikely though.
From Forbes:
Manchester City is easily a $2 billion club even without the Champions League, so they’re still going to be one of the most valuable soccer teams in the world despite this ban.
They will remain one of the worlds richest clubs even with the estimated £700,000 loss from the ban.
Are you trying to tell me Altuve, Bergman, Correa, and Springer aren't great hitters? Verlander not a great pitcher?You forgot to mention stealing signs with cameras in their particular skills. They were a great team because they cheated.
No, I'm not. I'm telling you that they cheated badly and that these hitters knew which pitch were coming. For you to downplay it is extremely strange, that's a massive edge.Are you trying to tell me Altuve, Bergman, Correa, and Springer aren't great hitters? Verlander not a great pitcher?
There is really nothing more to say if you think the Astros weren't already a great team.
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The Astros definitely cheated, deserve all the criticism, and their actions are indefensible but to pretend they weren't already a really good to great team is disingenuous. Look at the stats of their key players before and after the scandal. The cheating just put them over the top.No, I'm not. I'm telling you that they cheated badly and that these hitters knew which pitch were coming. For you to downplay it is extremely strange, that's a massive edge.
When I mean established clubs; I am talking about European Football Clubs that have either a recent history of footballing success and/or have one of the biggest fanbases of any football club. So I include ourselves, Arsenal & the Milan Clubs in that catagory, despite our collective lack of sucess in the last 10 years or so.Who are the established clubs UEFA are trying to protect? United who haven’t won the league in 7, Liverpool who haven’t won the league in 30, or are we just talking about Bayern Madrid Barcelona here?
They weren't better than the Rangers or Mariners, the following year they win the World Series and it's been recognized that they at least cheated in 2017 and 2018. I'm willing to say that like many teams they have great players but I won't call a team of cheats great because they weren't before the cheating and only really one the World Series where they definitely cheated. They were an above .500 team, I can recognize that.The Astros definitely cheated, deserve all the criticism, and their actions are indefensible but to pretend they weren't already a really good to great team is disingenuous. Look at the stats of their key players before and after the scandal. The cheating just put them over the top.
What? We were talking about competitive advantage in regards to small and large markets. That's why I originally posted that.No it’s not. Could not beat the big teams to win WS so they cheated.
Another one completely missing the point, and then writing a load of analysis against the strawman. Whether FFP is good, bad, a cartel to protect the established clubs or a racist endeavour against oil nations doesn’t matter.A lot of words
If the rules created with corrupt intentions (that benefit certain clubs over others), you cannot blame certain clubs for treating said rules with the same respect towards them as the rulemakers own respect towards the beautiful game itself. Likewise its more of a case that most club owners want the rules to be in place to cover up their own failures when it comes to investing in their own teams and/or lack of ambition. In contrast if you asked most football fans of any club (including United) if they want to see more ambition and willingness to invest into the club they support (from the owners of said club), the vast majority of them would say yes.There seems to be some sympathy for City in the media, which I don't understand at all. City know the rules and, even though they don't agree with them, understand that they need to abide by them. The rules are there because most clubs want them to be there, and think they help to ensure fair competition. City's open disdain for FFP, and their flagrant efforts to circimvent it, doesn't merely show contempt for the governing bodies, but also for all the clubs they compete against who do operate within the rules.
Investing in a club does not guarantee success (since it requires said money to be used wisely) and is far better regardless than taking money out of a club & mliking ones own fan base. The use of Performance Enhancing Drugs & Match-Fixing on the other hand does (if sucessful) gurantee success and thus is a lot worse for the sport than any sort of so called 'financial doping'The term 'financial doping' has been used, and this is a good way to look at it. We wouldn't applaud or defend drugs cheats in sport, and what City have been doing is every bit as deplorable.
They've cultivated a good relationship with the newspapers over the years - their reporter hospitality is miles better than ours, plus whatever under the table stuff they might also do. They have a load of journalists in their corner to write pro-City articles and puff pieces, but Im not sure that will last forever; if they smell blood they’ll turn on them.There seems to be some sympathy for City in the media, which I don't understand at all.
It’s indefensible. It’s very strange.No, I'm not. I'm telling you that they cheated badly and that these hitters knew which pitch were coming. For you to downplay it is extremely strange, that's a massive edge.
You must not follow baseball or you just want to craft your own narrative. From 2016 to 2017 the Astros overhauled their lineup only keeping their key players (Altuve, Springer, Correa) and, more importantly, they added Verlander/Peacock and their ENTIRE pitching staff improved. That made a fairly good young team a great team. Period.They weren't better than the Rangers or Mariners, the following year they win the World Series and it's been recognized that they at least cheated in 2017 and 2018. I'm willing to say that like many teams they have great players but I won't call a team of cheats great because they weren't before the cheating and only really one the World Series where they definitely cheated. They were an above .500 team, I can recognize that.
My post was trying to explain why despite being a United fan; I am against City being punished for violating FFP and why I am against FFP in general.Another one completely missing the point, and then writing a load of analysis against the strawman. Whether FFP is good, bad, a cartel to protect the established clubs or a racist endeavour against oil nations doesn’t matter.
City agreed to conform to FFP, then didn’t, then cooked the books to make it appear like they did.
Either you fight FFP beforehand, or you takes your medicine when they find out.
Put it this way - if no one found out, they’d have no problem with FFP, would they? Because with their fake income, *they’re* part of the established elite and have the same pro-FFP stance as everyone else.
Strawman. Nobody said it was defensible. You guys are just grossly uninformed. You would get away with it if I wasn't actually from Houston and didn't follow the team but unfortunately I do.It’s indefensible. It’s very strange.
And 2017 is the year where they definitely cheated and stole signs. You see that's the problem that I have, you are basically using the year they started to cheat as the start of that great team while I'm acknoweledging that they cheated and won't call them great until they do it without cheating. I believe that my stance is reasonable. And what makes a great team is the depth not just the key players and these lesser player had an edge that they never should have had.You must not follow baseball or you just want to craft your own narrative. From 2016 to 2017 the Astros overhauled their lineup only keeping their key players (Altuve, Springer, Correa) and, more importantly, they added Verlander/Peacock and their ENTIRE pitching staff improved. That made a fairly good young team a great team. Period.
Yeah the Astros are cheaters, but do your homework next time.
Whatever. They needed to cheat to win the World Series. Manfred is a wimp who won’t take it away but in everyone else’s eyes it’s not their title.Strawman. Nobody said it was defensible. You guys are just grossly uninformed. You would get away with it if I wasn't actually from Houston and didn't follow the team but unfortunately I do.
It is stranger that you're engaging in a back and forth over something you have a base level knowledge about.
Your stance has no nuance and ignores evidence. You're better than this but you, like everyone else, are entitled to your stance, however uninformed it may be.And 2017 is the year where they definitely cheated and stole signs. You see that's the problem that I have, you are basically using the year they started to cheat as the start of that great team while I'm acknoweledging that they cheated and won't call them great until they do it without cheating. I believe that my stance is reasonable. And what makes a great team is the depth not just the key players and these lesser player had an edge that they never should have had.
So you will excuse me but I'm not calling them a great team but I will give them all the credits that they deserve when they do it without cheating. Same thing with City.
It depends how big the points deduction is. In the two relevant seasons when we were runners up, the gap between City and Liverpool was only a point or two. In the year United were runners up (under Mourinho), the gap was huge. If the Premier League deduct, ooh let's say 5 points, that would be enough to give Liverpool two titles, but United none.Yeah. Agree, very unlikely to happen. But if PL gives point deduction for all titles City won then United too might get their 21st for the season they were 2nd in the league under Mourinho
You're entitled to your opinion. Cheers.Whatever. They needed to cheat to win the World Series. Manfred is a wimp who won’t take it away but in everyone else’s eyes it’s not their title.
I promise no more back and forth with you , and hope there is another thread where I’ll be in agreement with you instead of stuff like this. Beat Chelsea.