I'm positive about this signing irrespective of how much we paid. History shows that big money games with established players doesn't really work out for Manchester United. Young players, with lots to prove, that is our USP.
Manchester United Sign Anthony Martial!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Mata isn't stuck on the right, he doesn't hug the touchline the way a winger would. He cuts inside. Further, in all the games we played so far, Mata, Memphis and the number 10 have interchanged positions. It's time this Mata on the right thing is laid to rest.
Since when being nearly 30 means you're old and useless?
On the flanks Martial will find more space to act and therefore he will be given more time to adapt. We'll have to extremely pacey wingers who both can cut inside and do some damage.
The problem is that your completely overlooking the point. Mata, although a good player, makes our ride side looks slow and tumescent, with him always wanting to come inside and slow play down we become predictable and easy to defend against as he doesn't look to get in behind because he hasn't the physical attributes to do so. He doesn't have the pace or power do be a threat out wide and would be better suited centrally. Our 3 support players behind Rooney aren't given the freedom you suggested they are all quite fixed and under orders with their positional play.
Just read that piece on Martial, was glad to see that our Patrice has taken him in hand, encouraging him to learn English and helping him to prepare for his move to us. Wish we still had Patrice in the dressing room
Pogba was held back by Fergie. Some would even say Fergie didn't develop Rooney in the right way and stripped away the aggression in his play.. I think the second comment is harsh but the truth is in his later years Fergie wasn't great at bringing youngsters through as he once was.
I think LVG allows Depay to do his thing and if Martial is up to scratch, he'll handle him just fine. He's handled Shaw well so far.. With Januzaj its a simple case of probably not rating him and not wanting the constant question of is he getting enough game time on his mind when he's not going to be first team starter quality in the future.
I disagree with both Pogba and Rooney but that's is probably not the thread for it.
I'm not entirely blaming Van Gaal and it's probably more a case of changing times. We could afford to let Rooney and Ronaldo grow into excellent players while still easily finishing in the top 4. We don't have that kind of luxury now I guess.
"Mata stuck on the right" means that he is being forced to play on the right hand side because there is no other position for him. RF, not his role during a match.. I am not sure what his actual position is but he has been inconsistent as a right forward so far.
Spot on. It's an absolute impossible task to prize away the top players from the top teams in Europe. The only players are the ones surplus to requirements that are on their way down but you're having to play top money based on past exploits. I'd sooner take the same risk on a younger player. If he doesn't work out, well like I've said already, ADM and Falcao wages amount to loses of 30m and that's just one season.
SecondedJust read that piece on Martial, was glad to see that our Patrice has taken him in hand, encouraging him to learn English and helping him to prepare for his move to us. Wish we still had Patrice in the dressing room
Mata isn't cutting inside because he wants to, he's been told to do that by the manager. He's been told to do that because the manager feels that he cannot play centrally because we lose our defensive solodity. This isn't something alien with Mata, Mourinho sold him because of this particular reason. It isn't a coincidence that often, Darmian finds himself with acres of space on the right. It was the same last season when Valencia was the right back. Given that his best performances for United have been in this false winger role, I think it's working fine.
Really? So the number of times Januzaj shifted to the right and Mata was in the center during the Villa and Newcastle games, the number of times Memphis was on the right during the Swansea game must have been an illusion. I seem to remember Mata being on the left and Memphis in the middle at times. They aren't fixed at all. Clearly we've been watching different games.
According to the Times on Sunday, Chelsea matched our bid and were prepared to hijack the deal, only to be told the deal had already been done with us. Don't know how true this is, but it certainly fits with their transfer policy of nicking other teams' targets and loaning out 50 gajillion players.
With regards to the Balon d'Or, I'm sure he'll be at Real by the time he wins it, so at least we don't have to worry from that perspective.
With regards to the Balon d'Or, I'm sure he'll be at Real by the time he wins it, so at least we don't have to worry from that perspective.
Glad to see that Garde has said he wasn't like Ben Arfa at all in the brains department, you can have all the talent in the world and still piss it away if your head isn't firmly attached. Also handy to know that he was sold from Lyon because they were desperate financially rather than anything else, I think @JPRouve already said as much.
And yeah, bring back Pat!
Chelsea really like to hijack deals, wouldnt surprise me if the feckers tried to. Rumours were there that they were interested in Martial weeks ago. I am just happy that we have him.According to the Times on Sunday, Chelsea matched our bid and were prepared to hijack the deal, only to be told the deal had already been done with us. Don't know how true this is, but it certainly fits with their transfer policy of nicking other teams' targets and loaning out 50 gajillion players.
With regards to the Balon d'Or, I'm sure he'll be at Real by the time he wins it, so at least we don't have to worry from that perspective.
Agreed.
Shhhh, don't spread stuff like that around, what with all the caftards and oppo supporters gloating about how we overspent on a no-name player that nobody else wanted. What else are they going to have to complain about?According to the Times on Sunday, Chelsea matched our bid and were prepared to hijack the deal, only to be told the deal had already been done with us. Don't know how true this is, but it certainly fits with their transfer policy of nicking other teams' targets and loaning out 50 gajillion players.
With regards to the Balon d'Or, I'm sure he'll be at Real by the time he wins it, so at least we don't have to worry from that perspective.
They were linked with him in the press before us, wouldn't surprise me if Chelsea pushed us all the way which is why the deal ended up being so expensive. Obviously though the anti United press have forgotten this part and are lauding it up pretending we are useless and know nothing etc
I believe the news of Chelsea's interest to be true.
You can bet your life there wouldn't have been so much fuss if the media's beloved 'Jose' had been the one signing Martial.
You can bet your life there wouldn't have been so much fuss if the media's beloved 'Jose' had been the one signing Martial.
If Baldtwat Castles says it about Chelsea it must be true. Suddenly Martial isnt a gamble now Chelsea were after him.
The press and media are gonna love ripping this boy apart whenever he has an average game.
United need to be aware of this, even a small detail like subbing him off after an hour will be turned into a mountain.
So I'd introduce him around the hour mark in games for a while, then he can only win really!
Fellaini is back after the break (right?) so he can elbow the CB's all match before Martial comes on for a cameo.
United need to be aware of this, even a small detail like subbing him off after an hour will be turned into a mountain.
So I'd introduce him around the hour mark in games for a while, then he can only win really!
Fellaini is back after the break (right?) so he can elbow the CB's all match before Martial comes on for a cameo.
Their is a difference between stating this player(Martial) will be a good or even top player(Saha level in his prime or even Benzema level), to saying he is going to be a contender for Ballon or D'or(Suarez level). One is massively overrating his ability, while the other is being realistic which is me. And that realism has me questioning why we payed Suarez type money for him when he has yet to accomplish anything. Even though, I should not care how much we pay for a player as long as he comes good, I feel it is ethical to voice my opinion towards an overall strange transfer dealing.
If Van Gaal rated him so much, he would have been a priority signing alongside Depay, Schneiderlin, etc., rather than one that seems panicked because we were low in the attack. If we were more decisive, we could have gotten him early this transfer window and at a price that does not seem questionable towards our integrity. When United bought Ronaldo, he was not being labelled as a ballon D'or winner then and the expectation and price was reasonable. That is how a player should be bought and monitored. What we did with Martial is like buying Hernandez from his former team in Mexico for a crazy amount of money and saying he is guaranteed to be a world class player. This guy can't be the same with Ronaldo because he is expected to succeed and be a world class player no matter the cost. It is like the same pressure we are putting on an established player, we are putting on a teenage, which is poor management.
Must be a quandry for Castles. I'm sure he wants to relentlessy mock United for throwing so much money at a youngster few people had heard of, but can't now without also mocking Chelsea for the same reason
Just how many natural leaders we had playing for us around 2006-2011. Van der Sar, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggsy... no wonder we reached three Champions League finals during the period and were at times impossible to beat.Just read that piece on Martial, was glad to see that our Patrice has taken him in hand, encouraging him to learn English and helping him to prepare for his move to us. Wish we still had Patrice in the dressing room
It's incredible when you think about it, Neville-Rio-Vidic-Evra, what a fecking great backline.
You only know what you have when its gone
. Bring back-----------VDS-----------
-Neville--vidic--rio--evra
Why do we have to get old?
What I find amazing too is how when Rio and Vida switched positions, their performances didn't change that much. It's funny when you hear LVG and his bs about playing right and left footed CBs in the "appropriate" positions.
Patrice will be back sometime....Just read that piece on Martial, was glad to see that our Patrice has taken him in hand, encouraging him to learn English and helping him to prepare for his move to us. Wish we still had Patrice in the dressing room
I want to see him up top. That's his best position. I want to see a striker with trickery and pace threatening defenses. I am eagerly waiting for the day this my captain has special previleges nonsense stops.
That really was a fecking great backline. That backbone of VDS - Rio - Vidic was really some combination.You only know what you have when its gone
----------VDS-----------
-Neville--vidic--rio--evra
Why do we have to get old?
...we didn't. We paid roughly half what Suarez cost Barca - and there's a solid argument that his transfer was slightly undervalued. If we end up paying all the addons, it comes close to Suarez's fee, but if that's the case then Martial will have won the Ballon D'Or, so either way that argument is completely pointless.
I'd love to know what United fans are really feeling regarding this kid. Surely, the fact he was on the radar of every top team in Europe means something exciting. We might not see it straight away, and everyone is talking about the price and his experience so far, but this kind of signing is exactly what I was hoping from the club.
It would be nice to simply give it a try. We have a home game v Sunderland coming up (a match in actually attending!). What's the harm in testing the likes of Martial, Memphis, maybe even Wilson in a line up together without Rooney there.
To be honest his value doesn't even look that crazy when you compare it too a few other transfers that did happen and nearly happened this summer...
De Bruyne - £57million
Sterling - £49million
Stones - £40million (failed bid)
Martial - £36million
De Bruyne - £57million
Sterling - £49million
Stones - £40million (failed bid)
Martial - £36million
Me too. For me better this than a player surplus of requirements at Barca or Real. We have now two very promising players forward that hopefully their best years will be in a Utd shirt.
Agree. If he wins the Ballon D'Or then the prince will be justified anyway cause he would then be seen as one if the best players in the world.
He would have to activate the two realistic clause that state he will get more than 20 caps for France and score more than 20 goals(I can't recall if this clause is correct) because of expectation. As such that addition of €10m each will make the overall figure closer to Suarez as I stated, which is an exceptional fee for a player who has not accomplished anything yet. The ballon D'or one is over the top and I never considered that clause to activate any time soon.
Except that, at that point, he would have scored 25 goals in one season and played 25 times for France (or whatever those clauses are, the reports are all over the place). At that point - and remember, those clauses are only valid within the next four years - he will no longer be a player who has not accomplished anything yet. He'll be an international regular who has had at least one season in which he racked up a very good number of goals, and he would still be extremely young and have a lot more improvement potential. In today's market, for a very young and promising player that the club did not want to sell, I'd say it's an understandable deal.
I do think the initial fee is slightly too high, and some of the rumoured versions of the clauses would be way too weak, but I see it like this:
£36m for pure potential - too high really, but as I said above it's inflated due to his age, the market, and the fact that they did not want to or need to sell.
£44m for a youngster with a good record in the PL - marginally too high, but at this point he'd be essentially what Harry Kane is now, and people wanted us to pay more than this for Kane.
£51m for a youngster who is already a regular for his country and has a good record in the PL - decent fee, comparable to Sterling imo.
£58m for a Ballon D'Or winner at <23 years of age - fecking cheap.
Couple of things:
1) we have not paid a Suarez type fee, we only pay that sort of money if he performs to a level that suggests he is at Suarez level. If he gets Ballon D'or then it is obviously worth the dosh. United probably were happy for the clause, if he makes it in 4 years brilliant, if not we don't pay. So a win-win for United. Compare that to Sterling, De Bruyne, what Chelsea were prepared to pay for Stones and it isn't as bad as made out.
2) We only bought Depay, because PSG had made a move. It has also already been stated that other clubs were making a move for Martial. The same happened with Ronaldo when we got him, we bought him because other clubs had inquired about him. I do not understand why you or anyone else suggests panic buy. It is not a case that United were so desperate to buy someone we just went for him without any consideration. I do not think anyone thinks he is world class, but we have to be honest there are very few WC strikers out there, and those that exist are at clubs that will not sell them. We would only pay that initial amount if LVG was happy, that should be suffice.
Jesus people are still going on about the fee? I was hoping to click this thread (seeing as it's constantly active) to see if there's something new about him that's worth reading.
Nope. Get the feck over it. All is well to have a debate, but people are just repeating the exact same thing over and over again. Time will tell whether he was worth the fee - but for now, let's just celebrate that we have signed a player who has massive amount of potential going by people who have watched a lot of him. No need to nit-pick every signing we make (Schweinsteiger - "too old/injuryprone", Schneiderlin - "he preferred Arsenal" blah blah blah).
Nope. Get the feck over it. All is well to have a debate, but people are just repeating the exact same thing over and over again. Time will tell whether he was worth the fee - but for now, let's just celebrate that we have signed a player who has massive amount of potential going by people who have watched a lot of him. No need to nit-pick every signing we make (Schweinsteiger - "too old/injuryprone", Schneiderlin - "he preferred Arsenal" blah blah blah).
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