Today I resigned myself to the conclusion we're probably going to appoint Giggs at the end of the season. I fear for us, I really do.
Just for the record, as it were, I agree with your basic point, @dichinero ... sometimes you see extravagantly wrong posts in here, and lots of off the wall criticism, and you think, where are the real people? So just this once, I want to weigh in to support a pov which the poster has supported with logical argument. Giggs is a playing legend; but about one million miles from being a turn-key, ready-to-go managerial appointment at United. How this is not blatantly obvious to all is one helluva mystery to me. Don't let sentiment cloud your judgement, seems like good advice here. Where I disagree is about Giggs's love of the club; that factor is an unknowable, and is pretty much irrelevant. For my money, yes he does love the club, as much and more than anyone here. But that has no bearing at all on his ability to manage it.
Hitzfeld told Swiss newspaper Blick: 'For Zidane, it is like winning a lottery.
'It is an insane, crazy decision. He is a manager without any experience. He only lives on his famous name as a player.
'He hasn't proved anything as a coach yet and now he has to deal with the best players in the world.'
But there again, Hitzfield know nothing about winning, the United way and how important it is to let sentimentality and nepotism win over common sense
'It is an insane, crazy decision. He is a manager without any experience. He only lives on his famous name as a player.
'He hasn't proved anything as a coach yet and now he has to deal with the best players in the world.'
But there again, Hitzfield know nothing about winning, the United way and how important it is to let sentimentality and nepotism win over common sense
There shouldn't be any debate, when Barcelona appointed Guardiola they took a daft decision, it has been a huge success but the initial decision was a huge gamble, Zidane and Giggs potential appointments are as daft the difference being that Barcelona are one of the only clubs that could support this type of risks mainly because at the time they had a majority of academy players in the team and that these players used the same blueprint.
Until Barcelona had gone through every candidate, did they appoint Guardiola. Tixi Birgiristan is on record saying that even when they decided to appoint him, half the board thought it was a bonkers decision.
Yet we don't want him.
Except if you actually consider it, it's nowhere near as simple as that.
In business in general I suspect said person has experience of managing people. I suspect that in most cases, that person has run a large, multi-million pound department in the company they eventually run. I also suspect that person has experienced the pressures associated with management and performance and achieved. They have proved they are capable.
To use your example - Tim Cook was COO of Apple before being appointed CEO. He wasn't Steve Jobs Assistant. He had a very important, highly pressured, individual job in the company and evidently did it very well.
The major difference is that this bloke has proved he is very capable while doing a very similar job, albeit on a smaller scale, before getting the big job.
It's almost like managing another, less high profile football successfully team before you get a top job...
I think Giggs would likely start pretty well on a wave of sentimentality. However the problem will arise if things start going wrong and him having the knowledge to deal with it. Of course SAF will be rolled out again to help him. Then will it be a case of the tail wagging the dog.
Well, I guess that is your opinion. I personally would say that comparing management of a football club to that of running a big company is a bit daft and hardly 'like for like'. Although if someone insists on going with that assumption, I would say that promoting Giggs from within is hardly different to the way many companies operate when they appoint a leader. Again, I don't agree with the assumption in the first place... but whatever.
Nobody was insisting on anything. It was your argument and your "assumption", not mine.
You started being a smart arse and talking about Apple as if it undermined my point in some way. Now you disagree with your own post it seems.
Bizarre.
Not at all.
Who said, "If I was running a multi-million £/$ company" and used it as an analogy as to why hiring Giggs would be wrong? That was YOU! You make the assumption that they were both similar when you made that analogy.
I merely pointed out that if they were similar, it would be a bad analogy to make because large companies regularly recruit from within. I have not disagreed with any of my own posts but you have done a great job disagreeing with yours...
Bizarre.
Appointing Giggs is too big a risk for a club like United. End of. We need a manager with managerial experience.
"loving the club" has nothing to do with it. Wilf McGuinness loves/loved the club ffs! (we love Wilf obvs).
I love the club, my grandad was Busbys chief scout & my Dad's scouted for the club for over 50 years. Where do I hand in my application?!
"loving the club" has nothing to do with it. Wilf McGuinness loves/loved the club ffs! (we love Wilf obvs).
I love the club, my grandad was Busbys chief scout & my Dad's scouted for the club for over 50 years. Where do I hand in my application?!
I'm not saying you're wrong, but there will be people at the club who have a better insight into what 'managerial' qualities Giggs can bring to the table.
That being said, I'm not sure I have too much faith in the opinions of the board at United as of late.
I wouldn't trust that board to hire a janitor, let alone a manager, after the shambolic way they've done ... well ... almost everything*, since Fergie retired.
* to be fair, they did somehow manage to get noodles to sponsor us
Same ones who hired Moyes and LVG...
I wish!
You've totally lost me.
I made a point about Ryan Giggs not being ready, in my opinion, owing to having no experience in management.
You replied to my post in a fairly sarcastic manner using Apple as an example to suggest that promotion from within was the norm in business - I assumed to make the argument that it was relevant here and we may do likewise.
I suggested it was not comparable for a number of reasons. You seemingly now agree.
If you didn't think running a business and running a football club was comparable, then why did you bring it up?
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You made the analogy saying that hiring Giggs isn't something you would do by comparing it to being in charge of a big company. By using that analogy you are clearly saying that you think both scenarios are comparable.
I used Apple and Google as examples just to show that companies often recruit from within so the analogy doesn't really work in that sense... I have seen the same analogy used before on the Caf and it never makes sense for many reasons.
You then say that both scenarios are very different and not really comparable (I would agree actually)... but then why use the analogy in the first place? You've changed your mind.
You are basically ignoring the fact that you were the one who first compared the Giggs situation to how companies recruit a leader.
Here you compare the two scenarios...
Here you state that they are not comparable...
Pep would be the dream as it seems we are already laying his foundations with LVG, like with Barcelona and Bayern. Only Pep knows his future and am sure United will have a go at getting him regardless of what is said, The season is young and what happens if we end the season better of than Man City for they don't look great either atm, will that sway his decision, possibly, or by that time its been already made up but who knows.
We also have to take into account that Pep will have never of faced stiffer competition, he will come to a league were there will be 4 or 5 top teams competing its no 1 horse race (Germany) or two horse race (spain), also he will be in a league with atleast 3 or 4 teams who can outbid one another, this will not be a steam role for Pep, Mourinho has already out scored him and won the la liga title during one of his 2 seasons in the league, so he is not the messiah everyone makes him out to be, the Premier league will prove how good he is, he certainly the hottest prospect in management currently but Jose Mourinho can tell him how demanding and cruel the league can be.
We also have to take into account that Pep will have never of faced stiffer competition, he will come to a league were there will be 4 or 5 top teams competing its no 1 horse race (Germany) or two horse race (spain), also he will be in a league with atleast 3 or 4 teams who can outbid one another, this will not be a steam role for Pep, Mourinho has already out scored him and won the la liga title during one of his 2 seasons in the league, so he is not the messiah everyone makes him out to be, the Premier league will prove how good he is, he certainly the hottest prospect in management currently but Jose Mourinho can tell him how demanding and cruel the league can be.
You've missed my point.
My point was that approaching this scenario from a business context as a Chairman/Board Member of Manchester United I wouldn't be putting the financial future of the business (which is largely dependant on football results on the pitch) in the hands of an inexperienced individual by appointing a manager who hasn't got any experience. Perhaps I should have been clearer, but in the context of the thread and conversation it made sense.
I was not talking about multi-million pound companies in general, nor comparing United to multi-million pound businesses overall - clearly a football club is a very different animal.
Fair enough. Apologies for the sarcasm before.
No problem. Crossed wires.
Yup, plenty wanted Mourinho.
And many of the fans were very sceptical. Lower attendances early on and some even waving the white hankies in his very first game in charge...
LVG and his foundations...
The greatest myth ever told.
This. Giggs has showed nothing at all so far that he would make a half decent manager, let alone one that is capable of taking over a club of such stature.
Graham Hunter says when Woodward briefed the media (I'm assuming he means last time) he said United have doubts over Pep due to his lack of Premier League experience. At first you think 'no way' then you look at our board and think it's likely. If true, total 
.
.Graham Hunter says when Woodward briefed the media (I'm assuming he means last time) he said United have doubts over Pep due to his lack of Premier League experience. At first you think 'no way' then you look at our board and think it's likely. If true, total
. Yes, because the last time we hired a manager with PL experience, it turned out fantastic for us. Nutters....The whole premier league proven thing annoys me. Wenger wasn't "premier league proven" when he turned up at Arsenal and he went on to win the league in his first full season. Mourinho wasn't premier league proven when he first went to Chelsea. Pellegrini wasn't premier league proven when he won the league in his first season at City.
Surely that's rubbish? They sacked Moyes who was "premier league proven" in favour of Louis Van Gaal, who wasn't. Regardless, they surely can't be that clueless.Graham Hunter says when Woodward briefed the media (I'm assuming he means last time) he said United have doubts over Pep due to his lack of Premier League experience. At first you think 'no way' then you look at our board and think it's likely. If true, total
I honestly hope not, as if that's the case and we're being run by people seriously that daft we need to accept mediocrity.It seems too ridiculous. However, it wouldn't be surprising going by how the board has been in the last few seasons.Surely that's rubbish? They sacked Moyes who was "premier league proven" in favour of Louis Van Gaal, who wasn't. Regardless, they surely can't be that clueless.
That's exactly the point. There's also different types of intelligence. You don't know whether Cameron is smarter than Beckham. You don't know either of them, just like you don't know Giggs. Cameron is running the country but not particularly well IMO. I would say that he is less successful at what he's doing then what Beckham does at any rate. Not sure if that translates to intelligence or not and it is digressing from the point anyway.
We don't know for sure why Giggs is highly regarded by the upper echelons at the club but if one is managerial qualities, surely that's a good thing yes?
Regardless, I think he is going to end up in the role at some stage so we'll get to judge his skills as a manager in any case, not mention his intelligence or lack of whether you and others like it or not.
For the record, I'd prefer to have Pep in the role and Giggs continue to learn under the best for a couple years although that does seem unlikely at this point unfortunately.