Fergie was the greatest manager of all time and Zidane won 3 CL in a row. The evidence is quite literally right there, screaming at you in the face. They had a style a made it work. The point about it being complicated or otherwise is by the by. We aren't talking about SAF, though. You made a point about Ole, and then about Klopp. You then went on to say that one style isn't necessarily better than the other. It's just not true. Until Ole wins something, you can't say his 'style' is as effective.
Marcelo Bielsa on ManUtd style of play - "The more simple the football is, the better it is.
- Thread starter roonster09
- Start date
Achieving a good level of team work is one of the most important things in the game. Of course, tactics and having a good style of play is what makes football an attractive sport but you can throw the best player in every position and still struggle as a team if you don't have the right chemistry between the players. For the most part under every manager after Sir Alex, we looked like we had 11 individuals on the pitch with no idea how how to use each others strengths and that was one of the main things which made us struggle. We have improved a lot under Solskjaer from this aspect and our team looks more like a team.
This must feel like a hard blow for some members on here.
Because having 11 amazing players on the pitch most of the time is unrealistic. Still Ole is doing a decent job of playing to the strengths of the squad
We score great goals and plenty of them but our play is certainly not that edible, their whole play is great, that is the difference.
Yes, I bet mid to lower table clubs everywhere are impressed and jealous by this simple counter attacking style of football.
Its not by the way. Its literally the topic of conversation. Nobody is saying Ole is better than Pep.
Yes, counter-attacking is always bad and any coach that resorts to it at any possible moment, is a fraud.
Btw, 70% of teams we play sit deep. How do we counter-attack that?
I know they're fecking not!
don't name drop another manager now to complicate things. You made the point that you can't compare Ole's and Klopp's style of football - I'm saying you can. 'Its not as simple as saying 1 way of playing is better than the other.' it is actually, one has won the Premier League and Champions League while the other hasn't won a darn thing.What is a complicated style of play?
He has a point. Under Fergie out football was simple but effective - use the width, have movement, pass forwards.
The issue with people is any attack during opposition's defensive transition phase is dubbed as a counter attack.
With the kind of pace and directness we employ to expose these phases, literally any team will struggle if they're not in shape. And hence the reason why we saw sides like Chelsea, City being overly cautious while committing men forward for an attack vs us.
Are you accusing Carrick of insubordination?
Yeah, its like you're good at playing simple stuff.
Pep's autistic P_A_T_T_E_R_N_S of play, obviously.
Jokes aside, Pep did at one point take one of his strikers off early in the game, even after he had scored a goal and played well overall. Why? Because he deviated from Pep's build-up pattern.
Fecking Rainman, I tell ya!
What are patterns of play?
Ole don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. No more.
Football is a pretty simple game. Despite having all these different tactics and patterns o play in today's game, the fundamentals will always remain the same.
One can argue that Mourinho's Spurs play pretty simple football too.
In another thread people say he is outdated.
In another thread people say he is outdated.
Not sure I agree. What he appears to be saying is that it isnt hard to decipher our style of play however it caters to the strengths of our players and therefore is very hard to negate. We play with a certain unpredictability and freedom because of it.
It reads more like him being polite about what he sees as unsophisticated football.
See? Ask someone a question they cannot answer and they typically respond by quoting lyrics of a Haddaway tune from the '90s.
It is entirely possible that patterns of play do not exist at all. Same for a complicated or simple style of play. Or the answer to the meaning of life.
I imagine his style would be fine for a team like Spurs if he didn't cause the trouble he does. It seems more about player handling, and less about tactics.One can argue that Mourinho's Spurs play pretty simple football too.
In another thread people say he is outdated.
I was going to name our treble winning team and then realised they don't count! I feel so old...
And lack of success in UCL showed our simple style of football that was worked over by more tactical opponents rather easily. Hell the 2 UCL he did win (in 26 years), first was one in last 2 minutes with 2 freak goals (after BM pounded us all game) and 2nd was a JT penalty away from being lost. The point is, there was an element of luck in both and it wasn't a controlled dominant performance like Barca or Real Madrid.
So while fundamentally Bielsa is not wrong, fans are also over-simplifying his words too much.
you don’t need 11 you probably need 8 and a few workhorses.
But a fair few United teams were 11 players on the pitch but more recently the 07/08 side at full strength. The Barcelona teams 08-11 were 11 amazing players. The Jose Real Madrid team that won the league.
SAF was by no means a tactical genius. Our style of play during his reign was largely to cross the ball into the box as often as possible. Even after Beckham left we would still hook it in on a regular basis. Then we always had a few world class attackers who could make something out of the blue by mixing it up a bit.
I actually agree with the point you’re making, but it’s definitely possible to name at least a few teams who had amazing players across the pitch in the last two decades.
This is basically going to be Ole’s style as well. Positive and direct intent (not long ball but forwards.)
However I think Ole really wants to utilise a press as well.
Is he calling Ole a simpleton? How dare he.
Someone: "You are looking today".
The Caf: "Are you saying that I look like a troll the other days?"
The Caf: "Are you saying that I look like a troll the other days?"
Well then having 5/6 consistently amazing players and having 5 other squad players that are able to raise their performances to output a top class performance is all that's needed.
Zidanes treble winning team wasnt bloated out with tactics - just class players and some players that could raise a performance when it happened. Same with our CL winning team of 2008, no tiki taka stuff - on one side you had a world class player like Ronaldo or Rio whilst we also relies on Wes Brown having a better season that he ever had before or after- ie when it matters.
11 amazing players maybe is the wrong word - 11 amazing performances is all that is needed and being able to play to your strengths can bring those amazing performances out for you.
That's why I like ole, his tactics are simple and straight forward. Football isn't rocket science. Even SAF play style was simple. Just having a collection of players who are good at doing there part.
The discontent with our brand of football doesn’t come from the fact that we don’t walk the ball into the net or pass it around 1000 times a match.
We are often slow and laborious to start a match, have no composure when being pressed, often failed to make play at speed which gives opponents time to reorganize, and prone to lapses in concentration which leads to results like the Leipzig, Everton, Leicester games. None of these problems requires ‘sophisticated’ coaching to solve, whatever that means.
We are often slow and laborious to start a match, have no composure when being pressed, often failed to make play at speed which gives opponents time to reorganize, and prone to lapses in concentration which leads to results like the Leipzig, Everton, Leicester games. None of these problems requires ‘sophisticated’ coaching to solve, whatever that means.
What was he going to say ? United doesn't have a definite style ? People are taking these things way too seriously.
This is coming from a man who is known for his own methodical way of doing things.
This is coming from a man who is known for his own methodical way of doing things.
The philosophy of 'expressing yourself' is the common thread that binds Fergus and now Ole.
I think football styles are cyclical in some respects and a lot of this going back to basics stuff (a solid defensive base and lightning fast transitions) is coming back at the moment.
But as we saw with United's old 4-4-2 it can get old and found out though. Seeing Bayern Munich and Real Madrid waltz through our midfield in the post treble years emphasized the need to change and there's no doubt in my mind that Fergie evolved his style (especially in Europe)
Yes,.without that change we wouldn't have won the CL years after the treble.
This is errant nonsense.
Fergie's greatest strength wasn't tactics but my goodness you'd think he just told the squad to "go out and play football" every match. Of course his football was complicated. It all is at the highest levels!
I think Fergie's lack of tactical nous was shown up in Europe while playing with continental teams rather than English teams. English teams didn't really start evolving until the arrival of Mourinho to Chelsea. After that more foreign managers started showing in England and greater emphasis on tactics. Fergie football wasn't simpleton but there wasn't a whole lot of emphasis on being tactically aware, shapes, slowing down the game or speeding up. It was usually all out attack (with wide play) almost all the time which made for very entertaining football but was somewhat naive when we ran into Bayern Munich's, Milan's, Barca's and Real Madrid's of this world. Carlos Quieroz helped us in UCL more so than EPL in that regard.
I think fans are oversimplifying Bielsa too much. He is not saying you should only play simple 5 yard passes in straight lines and work at your own pace regardless of the situation. Tiki Taka was simple football but it was very hard to emulate. It required players with technical skill in close quarters that were very comfortable on the ball. Constant movement finding spaces to receive a pass and most of all discipline of never giving the ball cheaply. Tiki taka was very dormant when done in your own half, they didn't come alive until they reached your box and that's when they played penetrative passes. They also suffocated opposition by keeping the ball. That is simple football, just very hard to do.