Marco Rose | Gladbach manager

Adnan

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Yeah, as I say, you are certainly right to call this one as a potential loss for Gladbach given Leverkusens form.

I don't know alot about Bosz, I know he failed spectacularly at Dortmund and wasn't he in charge of Ajax when we won the Europa League? I know he's a bit of a journey man manager and has never really built a team as such.
I focus on Bosz's ability to make a team play a proactive brand of football and he does that very well. He even should've defeated Leipzig earlier this season and was unlucky not to win the game IMO. The Dortmund debacle is a blot on his career but even then there's context that needs to be considered as to why he failed at the club.

Yes he was the man in charge when Ajax got to the Europa final against us and is considered by many Dutch fans as the best coach they have.
 

Cheimoon

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I focus on Bosz's ability to make a team play a proactive brand of football and he does that very well. He even should've defeated Leipzig earlier this season and was unlucky not to win the game IMO. The Dortmund debacle is a blot on his career but even then there's context that needs to be considered as to why he failed at the club.

Yes he was the man in charge when Ajax got to the Europa final against us and is considered by many Dutch fans as the best coach they have.
It's probably between him and Ten Hag right now. Ten Hag hasn't been at it as long though - and same for Slot. I think Van den Brom has done well in the subtop (but maybe that's just me) and Koeman with the national team (but very inconsistent elsewhere), but that's not really comparable. I don't know who else could even be considered here right now.

I don't think I'd call Bosz a journeyman. He was at Heracles and Vitesse multiple seasons and usually left to join a bigger club. Same for Ajax: he left quickly because Dortmund came calling. Also, as for the EL final - he didn't really have a choice but to play his own game. Going defensive would've gone against all conditioning of their players so likely wouldn't work so well, plus United was much better at that approach and Boss would have gotten slaughtered for it by the Ajax fans. (They are VERY serious about their preferred approach to football.)
 
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Adnan

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It's probably between him and Ten Hag right now. Ten Hag hasn't been at it as long though - and same for Slot. I think Van den Brom has done well in the subtop (but maybe that's just me) and Koeman with the national team (but very inconsistent elsewhere), but that's not really comparable. I don't know who else could even be considered here right now.

I don't think I'd call Bosz a journeyman. He was at Heracles and Vitesse multiple seasons, and only left Ajax quickly because Dortmund came calling. Also, as for the EL final - he didn't really have a choice but to play his own game. Going defensive would've gone against all conditioning of their players so likely wouldn't work so well, plus United was much better at that approach and Boss would have gotten slaughtered for it by the Ajax fans. (They are VERY serious about their preferred approach to football.)
Completely agree mate..

Van den Brom is at Genk currently if i'm not mistaken but I'd like to see him get a opportunity at a club playing at a higher level.
 

Cheimoon

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Completely agree mate..

Van den Brom is at Genk currently if i'm not mistaken but I'd like to see him get a opportunity at a club playing at a higher level.
Yeah, he moved over just this week. I know nothing about Genk apart from that they were champions two seasons ago and nowhere near last season. (Also because of a crazy Club Brugge season.) So no idea if their squad is title-challenge quality; but at least it's not beyond the club as such (unlike Utrecht, where Van den Brom is coming from), so I'm quite curious how this is going to play out for him.
 

Daniel_de_Foe

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Welcome to the discussion.
Interesting points, and backs up my claims earlier in the thread that a team is greater than the sum of its parts if working together and working hard.

Do you get think thought that these upcoming managers need to adapt a plan B? Not many of them seem to be able to adapt their teams to a plan B if things aren't working...

Sorry I took a while. Thanks for your kind invitation

I think before you can measure, if a plan B is needed, we first must clear on what level we have to implement it. Is it on club-philosophical level? On a strategical level or on a tactical level?

On the level of „club philosophy“ I don’t think that is possible without making the team a „jack of all trades“. For example, gegenpressing is so strong because the clubs train it on such a high level that all players can react without thinking when losing the ball. In the first 3-5 seconds they will try to get the ball back, after that they will get back in a defensive structure. If you try to adapt let’s say to a low block the players will react slower, because they have to constantly reminding them self that it is not a gegenpressing but a low block situation.

Maybe a lot of this „plan-b“ talk is confirmation bias, people have heard about these new coaches and they tactical masterclass and they think for example a Nagelsmann have to adapt a winning strategy in every situation. That is not how football works. If you must adapt, you are losing and if you already losing the chances your new plan works are always reduced. The other team can easily exploit your new plan in a counter (United - Leipzig?). And if the new plan works better than the old one and you know it from the beginning, why not coming up with it first? Real sports are not movies, where it is better for suspense to do the best working things in the end.

Good coaches are always adapting to the other team, not in the game but before the game. Every good couch will change something when losing, but we often cannot see it as audience because it does not change the momentum of the game, which is always difficult in an uphill battle.
 
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Champ

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Sorry I took a while. Thanks for your kind invitation

I think before you can measure, if a plan B is needed, we first must clear on what level we have to implement it. Is it on club-philosophical level? On a strategical level or on a tactical level?

On the level of „club philosophy“ I don’t think that is possible without making the team a „jack of all trades“. For example, gegenpressing is so strong because the clubs train it on such a high level that all players can react without thinking when losing the ball. In the first 3-5 seconds they will try to get the ball back, after that they will get back in a defensive structure. If you try to adapt let’s say to a low block the players will react slower, because they have to constantly reminding them self that it is not a gegenpressing but a low block situation.

Maybe a lot of this „plan-b“ talk is confirmation bias, people have heard about these new coaches and they tactical masterclass and they think for example a Nagelsmann have to adapt a winning strategy in every situation. That is not how football works. If you must adapt, you are losing and if you already losing the chances your new plan works are always reduced. The other team can easily exploit your new plan in a counter (United - Leipzig?). And if the new plan works better than the old one and you know it from the beginning, why not coming up with it first? Real sports are not movies, where it is better for suspense to do the best working things in the end.

Good coaches are always adapting to the other team, not in the game but before the game. Every good couch will change something when losing, but we often cannot see it as audience because it does not change the momentum of the game, which is always difficult in an uphill battle.
Interesting points, and I certainly understand where you are coming from there.

I am talking definitely on a more tactical level, I see many coaches who offer one way to win a game but don't seem to offer enough when things turn against them.
We've seen often from Jose for example, a complete change of formation or tactical outlook, sometimes even in the first half of games. I don't see this with Rose, or some of the new breed, even Hassenhuttl.
Their preferred method works well most of the time, however we have seen Rose try to utilize other formations to counteract the opposition but it not come off before reverting to type. The Bayern game being a prime example.

This isn't a negative against these coaches, as often their first preference of setup works incredibly well. I just feel that Rose in particular doesn't seem to offer enough flexibility as of yet in terms of outlook both pre and during the game.

For example they constantly leak goals in the last third of matches, this has been an issue long term, yet instead of tweaking their intensity to allow them to see a game through, or bringing on defenders or defensive minded players he has constantly and consistently carried in with the same game plan.
 

do.ob

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Interesting points, and I certainly understand where you are coming from there.

I am talking definitely on a more tactical level, I see many coaches who offer one way to win a game but don't seem to offer enough when things turn against them.
We've seen often from Jose for example, a complete change of formation or tactical outlook, sometimes even in the first half of games. I don't see this with Rose, or some of the new breed, even Hassenhuttl.
Their preferred method works well most of the time, however we have seen Rose try to utilize other formations to counteract the opposition but it not come off before reverting to type. The Bayern game being a prime example.

This isn't a negative against these coaches, as often their first preference of setup works incredibly well. I just feel that Rose in particular doesn't seem to offer enough flexibility as of yet in terms of outlook both pre and during the game.

For example they constantly leak goals in the last third of matches, this has been an issue long term, yet instead of tweaking their intensity to allow them to see a game through, or bringing on defenders or defensive minded players he has constantly and consistently carried in with the same game plan.
I didn't bother to reply to the previous post, but what you're saying about the Bayern game simply isn't correct. It's literally the opposite. He started the game with a midfield diamond, his sort of go to formation early into the season and then adjusted to a 4231 during the match. Which only later became his preferred formation. You can also see that he tried out a lot of different stuff. He has his set philosophy, but he's not locked into one particular implementation. The current 4231 just appears to be something that he deems best for the job in most games at the moment.


And with regards to this season's results you're drawing big conclusions from a small sample size that's heavily affected by the fact that they have to play a very tight schedule with a thin squad.

These are last season's stats, they paint a different picture:

 
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Champ

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I didn't bother to reply to the previous post, but what you're saying about the Bayern game simply isn't correct. It's literally the opposite. He started the game with a midfield diamond, his sort of go to formation early into the season and then adjusted to a 4231 during the match. Which only later became his preferred formation. You can also see that he tried out a lot of different stuff. He has his set philosophy, but he's not locked into one particular implementation. The current 4231 just appears to be something that he deems best for the job in most games at the moment.


And with regards to this season's results you're drawing big conclusions from a small sample size that's heavily affected by the fact that they have to play a very tight schedule with a thin squad.

These are last season's stats, they paint a different picture:

I have to disagree with you here.
In majority of those games in 2019, a simple check of the lineup would highlight that he did in fact play his preferred 4231.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with the second point? If it's referring to the late goals, that has been as issue since Rose was at the helm.
It's an ongoing issue and one which hasn't been rectified.
 

do.ob

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I have to disagree with you here.
In majority of those games in 2019, a simple check of the lineup would highlight that he did in fact play his preferred 4231.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with the second point? If it's referring to the late goals, that has been as issue since Rose was at the helm.
It's an ongoing issue and one which hasn't been rectified.
A "simple check of the lineups" tells you that in the first half 2019 up until and including the Bayern match basically all matches featured three out of Zakaria, Neuhaus, Benes and Kramer. All of them are used as either CMs or DMs under Rose. His no 9.5s are Plea and Stindl, the reason why he probably uses a 4231 so much these days is that it allows him to fit both of them into the squad in central roles, along with Thuram in a wide(r) role. But during the first half of last season Stindl was barely a factor, because he only came back from a broken leg midway through it, so Rose was a lot more flexible in his choices.

I showed you that Gladbach had a good record in games where they fell behind, because you included Rose in "I see many coaches who offer one way to win a game but don't seem to offer enough when things turn against them."

And I showed you that Gladbach saw through an astonishing amount of their leads last season, because you said "For example they constantly leak goals in the last third of matches, this has been an issue long term, yet instead of tweaking their intensity to allow them to see a game through, or bringing on defenders or defensive minded players he has constantly and consistently carried in with the same game plan."
 

Davie Moyes

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It's refreshing to see a thread with good intellectual and respectful discussion on the Cafe, as opposed to the usual negativity and slating Ole and the players. Keep it up guys.
 

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Another big problem is: Pressing is extremely coaching-intensive. It almost doesn’t matter who your players are, as long as they are on an average level and they are doing exactly what you want. Klopp used a German third tier player in midfield (Leo Kirch) when they were defeating Real Madrid 2:0 in the CL Quarter Finals 2014 at home (after losing 0:3 in Madrid). But a team full of stars with big egos won’t transform into a very good pressing team, PSG is the best example. I am very skeptical if united can be such a team.
I would say that we have the building blocks to be a proper pressing team, particularly in Fred and Bruno. McTominay suits it as well although questions can be asked whether he's good enough in other ways, and Rashford has shown in the past that he can do it very well (he's been quite a bit lazier for a while now though). I tend to think VDB would be suited but I haven't seen enough to be sure. I think AWB could end up being good at it with quite a bit of intensive training to sort out his positioning, but once again his lack of ability on the ball may be an issue.

The obvious issues with us doing it properly are Pogba, Martial, all of our right wingers and the lack of pace at centreback. Pogba is likely on the way out. Martial would have to improve that aspect (he's shown he can do it sometimes) or miss out to someone who will lead the press from the front. Greenwood would be in a similar position as Martial. The rest of it would be up to the manager to sort out, either by having a style of play to cover those deficiencies, using different players (Tuanzebe coming in perhaps?), and of course utilising the transfer market. Overall I don't think we're too far off being able to do it properly.
 

Champ

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A "simple check of the lineups" tells you that in the first half 2019 up until and including the Bayern match basically all matches featured three out of Zakaria, Neuhaus, Benes and Kramer. All of them are used as either CMs or DMs under Rose. His no 9.5s are Plea and Stindl, the reason why he probably uses a 4231 so much these days is that it allows him to fit both of them into the squad in central roles, along with Thuram in a wide(r) role. But during the first half of last season Stindl was barely a factor, because he only came back from a broken leg midway through it, so Rose was a lot more flexible in his choices.

I showed you that Gladbach had a good record in games where they fell behind, because you included Rose in "I see many coaches who offer one way to win a game but don't seem to offer enough when things turn against them."

And I showed you that Gladbach saw through an astonishing amount of their leads last season, because you said "For example they constantly leak goals in the last third of matches, this has been an issue long term, yet instead of tweaking their intensity to allow them to see a game through, or bringing on defenders or defensive minded players he has constantly and consistently carried in with the same game plan."
I'm going to have to disagree with you entirely regarding the formations he used in the 2019 season.
I have gone through most games and the formations used very rarely strayed from his preferred setup.
He actually had a lot more flexibility when manager of Salzburg, but such is their dominance in their domestic league he had a bit more comfort in doing that, so there's always that.

I never said Gladbach leak goals which makes them lose, I highlighted that they leak goals consistently in the last third of games, and generally conceding goals isn't the best thing in football. That cannot be disputed as the evidence is in the games, not just this season but last season as well.
These late goals were not as prevalent in Salzburg, which again may be due to their dominance, but highlights that he doesn't often change things now he has a preferred way of playing at Gladbach.

All your deficit table shows is how little teams turn over from losing positions, and how little the top sides actually fall into losing positions.
United have 9 points already from losing positions this season despite only being behind in 6 games.

However, the fact that he has shown flexibility at Salzburg does negate my point slightly, and points to potentially a deeper level of tactical depth.
 

dal

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I know being at Man Utd is still at the pinnacle of jobs but it’s been a poison chalice for all our post SAF managers (permanent). It’s like we almost needed to fail to progress.

The first manager was always going to be sacked quickly. Lose, lose situation.

The main reason I want to stick with Ole is because we need stability, it’s obvious our recruitment is getting better and we kind of know now what we want. The previous buys smell of Woodward’s desire to hire galaticos and drive the PR machine, stick to marketing mate.

I think Ole is doing a good job and feel he will be here for at least two more seasons, then we can take a view. We need stabilising for now, we will get our proper form back shortly and the noise will calm.
 

do.ob

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I'm going to have to disagree with you entirely regarding the formations he used in the 2019 season.
I have gone through most games and the formations used very rarely strayed from his preferred setup.
He actually had a lot more flexibility when manager of Salzburg, but such is their dominance in their domestic league he had a bit more comfort in doing that, so there's always that.
The transfermarkt database says otherwise.
Whoscored's database says otherwise.
But you're telling me you know better, because you looked at lineups that actually show that Benes went from starter to non-factor while Stindl, who is a vastly more attacking player, got his minutes?

I never said Gladbach leak goals which makes them lose, I highlighted that they leak goals consistently in the last third of games, and generally conceding goals isn't the best thing in football. That cannot be disputed as the evidence is in the games, not just this season but last season as well.
These late goals were not as prevalent in Salzburg, which again may be due to their dominance, but highlights that he doesn't often change things now he has a preferred way of playing at Gladbach.
Gladbach conceded 2 goals between the 61st and 75th minute last season. What data have you been looking at? For the whole of 60+ interval they have conceded 16 goals. The same as Leipzig, three more than Bayern. They were the tied third best in that regard. How is that an underperformance when they had the fourth to fifth best squad of the league? The table I linked showed that they were among the elite in Europe when it came to defending a lead, you were talking about bringing on defenders? What do you bring on defenders for, if not to defend a lead?

All your deficit table shows is how little teams turn over from losing positions, and how little the top sides actually fall into losing positions.
United have 9 points already from losing positions this season despite only being behind in 6 games.

However, the fact that he has shown flexibility at Salzburg does negate my point slightly, and points to potentially a deeper level of tactical depth.
How did you determine his tactical flexibility at Salzburg?

The table shows that Rose's team got the tied third most points on average after falling behind. Which means they outperformed expectations in that regard.
 

Champ

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The transfermarkt database says otherwise.
Whoscored's database says otherwise.
But you're telling me you know better, because you looked at lineups that actually show that Benes went from starter to non-factor while Stindl, who is a vastly more attacking player, got his minutes?



Gladbach conceded 2 goals between the 61st and 75th minute last season. What data have you been looking at? For the whole of 60+ interval they have conceded 16 goals. The same as Leipzig, three more than Bayern. They were the tied third best in that regard. How is that an underperformance when they had the fourth to fifth best squad of the league? The table I linked showed that they were among the elite in Europe when it came to defending a lead, you were talking about bringing on defenders? What do you bring on defenders for, if not to defend a lead?



How did you determine his tactical flexibility at Salzburg?

The table shows that Rose's team got the tied third most points on average after falling behind. Which means they outperformed expectations in that regard.
Firstly, if you Google any Gladbach game, it provides the starting line ups and formations the team started with. This is usually 99% accurate and also a good provider of game stats. Gives a good visual look at the lineup too. And as I say, is usually very accurate.
I'm not claiming I'm right, merely the information I'm checking is usually very very accurate.

I think if you read back in my posts in this thread you'll see I have actually given a percentage based on my own correlation of data of goals conceded by Gladbach under Rose in the last third of games. I can't be bothered to find the actual number but feel free to check.
It's alarming high. Like very very high.
Once again, feel free to try discredit but it's all there in black and white!

I get that you are a fan of Rose, and I get that you want to stick up for him despite some obvious failings.
I have no real thoughts on Rose yet other than he's obviously a talented manager, but one that has flaws that I feel would be exposed if he became United manager any time soon.
I am also willing to be proved wrong, but so far I haven't been.

Edit: found it, 41% of all their conceded goals came in the last third since the start of the year...41%!! Of all goals conceded.
 
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do.ob

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Firstly, if you Google any Gladbach game, it provides the starting line ups and formations the team started with. This is usually 99% accurate and also a good provider of game stats. Gives a good visual look at the lineup too. And as I say, is usually very accurate.
I'm not claiming I'm right, merely the information I'm checking is usually very very accurate.

I think if you read back in my posts in this thread you'll see I have actually given a percentage based on my own correlation of data of goals conceded by Gladbach under Rose in the last third of games. I can't be bothered to find the actual number but feel free to check.
It's alarming high. Like very very high.
Once again, feel free to try discredit but it's all there in black and white!

I get that you are a fan of Rose, and I get that you want to stick up for him despite some obvious failings.
I have no real thoughts on Rose yet other than he's obviously a talented manager, but one that has flaws that I feel would be exposed if he became United manager any time soon.
I am also willing to be proved wrong, but so far I haven't been.

Edit: found it, 41% of all their conceded goals came in the last third since the start of the year...41%!! Of all goals conceded.
Even that google list, while featuring games with a 4231, suggests that he used 5 different formations in the 20 games leading up to Bayern, the 4312 he eventually picked being the most common with 8 instances.

From that you arrive at sentences like this one: "Their preferred method works well most of the time, however we have seen Rose try to utilize other formations to counteract the opposition but it not come off before reverting to type. The Bayern game being a prime example."

We also had the "no plan B" cliche which is directly contradicted by results suggesting his team doing comparatively well after falling behind. It's also an ironic point to make considering how focused you are on that Bayern match.

Now you're arguing with goals conceded late into the game. Like that stat without context means a lot. No apparent interest in an explanation.

It's not so much that I'm a huge fan of Rose: I think he's a very promising coach, with whose approach to football I agree with. Nothing more, nothing less. But your posts suggest you're just selectively digging through stats until you can find something negative to post about him.
 

Champ

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Even that google list, while featuring games with a 4231, suggests that he used 5 different formations in the 20 games leading up to Bayern, the 4312 he eventually picked being the most common with 8 instances.

From that you arrive at sentences like this one: "Their preferred method works well most of the time, however we have seen Rose try to utilize other formations to counteract the opposition but it not come off before reverting to type. The Bayern game being a prime example."

We also had the "no plan B" cliche which is directly contradicted by results suggesting his team doing comparatively well after falling behind. It's also an ironic point to make considering how focused you are on that Bayern match.

Now you're arguing with goals conceded late into the game. Like that stat without context means a lot. No apparent interest in an explanation.

It's not so much that I'm a huge fan of Rose: I think he's a very promising coach, with whose approach to football I agree with. Nothing more, nothing less. But your posts suggest you're just selectively digging through stats until you can find something negative to post about him.
Far from it in fact.
I've been very neutral with the way I've discussed,Rose, I've actually been very positive with a lot of what he does,
The stats I'm 'digging through' are areas where he and Gladbach need improvements, massive improvements.
When nearly half of all your goals conceded come late on in games you really do have to start looking at that as an issue, especially when it loses you games or stops your team winning as per Inter or Real.
Surely even the most 'Rose tinted' football fan can see that?!?


The funny thing is you talk about context yet don't mention that in majority of the games Gladbach have fallen behind, Rose hasn't made any wholesale changes to affect the game, they carry on playing their way, and usually it works. Again I've been quite positive with my outlook on his preferred tactics.
That Bayern game he ended up reverting to type due to his failure to set his team up in the best way. Again, you can't argue that and again it just highlights how good his first choice of tactics work.

I've already stated im camped on here because people seem this guy to be potentially a United manager at some point.
I have no agenda other than hoping United get the right person for the job.
Whilst you raise some good points and I appreciate your valid responses as they carry weight and thought, i feel its heavily weighted in favour of Rose, so much so that you cannot almost accept that there are issues with his approach to games, and that Gladbach haven't yet overachieved with Rose, merely reverting to the mean.
Doesn't make him a bad manager, and I've stated all along this is the season to truly judge him at Gladbach.
 

Champ

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Yet more points dropped due to a goal conceded in the last few minutes.
Rose really has to sort it out, no chance of progression if this keeps happening.
 

do.ob

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Yet more points dropped due to a goal conceded in the last few minutes.
Rose really has to sort it out, no chance of progression if this keeps happening.
What would you say was Rose's mistake today?
 

Champ

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What would you say was Rose's mistake today?
Didn't watch it, so couldn't comment, but I see they let yet another late goal in against ten men.
Game management is proving to be an ongoing issue.
Did you watch the game?
 

do.ob

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Didn't watch it, so couldn't comment, but I see they let yet another late goal in against ten men.
Game management is proving to be an ongoing issue.
Did you watch the game?
I've seen who was absent again, I've seen what chances they missed and I've seen what kind of goal they conceded.
Being able to judge game management without actually watching the game is some gift though.
 

Champ

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I've seen who was absent again, I've seen what chances they missed and I've seen what kind of goal they conceded.
Being able to judge game management without actually watching the game is some gift though.
Doesn't take a genius to realise that a team with a player extra that is leading with three minutes to play should be holding on to the lead.
Absolutely awful defending for the Augsburg goal, doesn't take much to realise that these late goals are a big big problem.
There really is no defending that, pardon the pun!!
 

do.ob

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Doesn't take a genius to realise that a team with a player extra that is leading with three minutes to play should be holding on to the lead.
Absolutely awful defending for the Augsburg goal, doesn't take much to realise that these late goals are a big big problem.
There really is no defending that, pardon the pun!!
So you think it was a tactical mistake? Did Rose forget to instruct Ginter and Elvedi not to interfere with each other's clearance? Or did he forget to tell Wendt not to deflect the shot? Did he not give the correct instructions to Embolo, regarding converting a 1on1 with the keeper?
 

Champ

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So you think it was a tactical mistake? Did Rose forget to instruct Ginter and Elvedi not to interfere with each other's clearance? Or did he forget to tell Wendt not to deflect the shot? Did he not give the correct instructions to Embolo, regarding converting a 1on1 with the keeper?
Stop defending the indefensible, are you really that blinded that you cannot admit that Gladbach should have won that game, a home game against a team who have won one game in five, down to ten men and holding a lead with a few minutes left.
The simple fact is they have conceded goals for fun, and majority of them are late goals, which has been going on for a long time under Rose, yet nothing has changed.
He's either incapable of eradicating this problem, or he's not bothered by it, or he's just not noticed it.
Can you surely not see that?
 

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Stop defending the indefensible, are you really that blinded that you cannot admit that Gladbach should have won that game, a home game against a team who have won one game in five, down to ten men and holding a lead with a few minutes left.
The simple fact is they have conceded goals for fun, and majority of them are late goals, which has been going on for a long time under Rose, yet nothing has changed.
He's either incapable of eradicating this problem, or he's not bothered by it, or he's just not noticed it.
Can you surely not see that?
The difference between you and me is that I'm looking deeper than the score line. Obviously Gladbach should have won the game. But since there are also 22 players on the pitch that doesn't (necessarily) mean it's all the coaches fault. And I doubt that potential suitors are too bothered by a game like today, because they know their players won't make the same mistakes Gladbach players make. You keep repeating that this has always been an issue, but it's a fact that last season they have been the most consistent team in the league when it came to bringing home a lead.
 

Champ

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The difference between you and me is that I'm looking deeper than the score line. Obviously Gladbach should have won the game. But since there are also 22 players on the pitch that doesn't (necessarily) mean it's all the coaches fault. And I doubt that potential suitors are too bothered by a game like today, because they know their players won't make the same mistakes Gladbach players make. You keep repeating that this has always been an issue, but it's a fact that last season they have been the most consistent team in the league when it came to bringing home a lead.
Blimey, it's not just this game though. Nearly HALF of ALL goals conceded THIS YEAR have come in the last 15 minutes of a game.
Surely, surely you must admit that is alarming and points to an issue? Especially when they have dropped countless points because of it.
Can't keep brushing it off as one of those things anymore I'm afraid!
Also, as much as you won't admit it, the scoreline is actually all that counts in football.
 

do.ob

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Blimey, it's not just this game though. Nearly HALF of ALL goals conceded THIS YEAR have come in the last 15 minutes of a game.
Surely, surely you must admit that is alarming and points to an issue? Especially when they have dropped countless points because of it.
Can't keep brushing it off as one of those things anymore I'm afraid!
Also, as much as you won't admit it, the scoreline is actually all that counts in football.
Obviously they concede a lot of late goals this season. Since last season's stats prove that this isn't an inherent issue for Rose though it's worth looking deeper than the scorelines. Or ask yourself what makes this season different from last season. For example issues with fatigue were to be expected, given the tightened schedule coupled with Gladbach's relatively thin squad, tough CL group and inexperience in dealing with it. You can also see that they significantly underperform in stats such as xGa and xPts and a look at the minutes of Plea and Thuram, as well as Zakaria points towards why.
Or you can be like "I don't watch their matches, but I looked at scorelines: here's my definite analysis".
 
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Amadaeus

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It is funny how a lot of poster has shifted their attention away from Nagelsmen to Rose after our 5 -0 victory of rb Leipzig. The answer will always be Pochettino to take us back to glory. Nagelsmen and Rose are next in line.
 

Champ

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Obviously they concede a lot of late goals this season. Since last season's stats prove that this isn't an inherent issue for Rose though it's worth looking deeper than the scorelines. Or ask yourself what makes this season different from last season. For example issues with fatigue were to be expected, given the tightened schedule coupled with Gladbach's relatively thin squad, tough CL group and inexperience in dealing with it. You can also see that they significantly underperform both their xG and xGa stats and a look at the minutes of Plea and Thuram, as well as Zakaria points towards why.
Or you can be like "I don't watch their matches, but I looked at scorelines: here's my definite analysis".
It was happening before the restart, I've already stated that it's the WHOLE YEAR, not just this season I've taken stats from, this was happening last season too.
It's a problem, and one that Rose hasn't worked out a solution for yet.
You can try be as facetious as you want, but the evidence is right in front of you take off the rose tinted glasses you seem to be wearing (again pun unintended :lol: )

I feel we've had some good discussions on here regarding Rose and styles of football in general, but I do feel like you are way too quick to defend everything this guy does, even when he makes mistakes, or the evidence suggests that Gladbach can't last the distance in games. A little objective thinking goes along way.
 

do.ob

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It was happening before the restart, I've already stated that it's the WHOLE YEAR, not just this season I've taken stats from, this was happening last season too.
It's a problem, and one that Rose hasn't worked out a solution for yet.
You can try be as facetious as you want, but the evidence is right in front of you take off the rose tinted glasses you seem to be wearing (again pun unintended :lol: )

I feel we've had some good discussions on here regarding Rose and styles of football in general, but I do feel like you are way too quick to defend everything this guy does, even when he makes mistakes, or the evidence suggests that Gladbach can't last the distance in games. A little objective thinking goes along way.
The evidence was posted on this page:


I'm happy to talk about football styles, Rose in particular still has to proof that he can deal with extreme negativity and if you look through the thread you can see that I expected him to struggle this season. But you can't get to that level of discussion if you don't watch the football and keep posting incomplete stats with lazy conclusions. It also seems impossible for you to actually name the particular mistakes Rose is making aside from "something something late goals".
 

King Kendrick

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Obviously they concede a lot of late goals this season. Since last season's stats prove that this isn't an inherent issue for Rose though it's worth looking deeper than the scorelines. Or ask yourself what makes this season different from last season. For example issues with fatigue were to be expected, given the tightened schedule coupled with Gladbach's relatively thin squad, tough CL group and inexperience in dealing with it. You can also see that they significantly underperform in stats such as xGa and xPts and a look at the minutes of Plea and Thuram, as well as Zakaria points towards why.
Or you can be like "I don't watch their matches, but I looked at scorelines: here's my definite analysis".
You’re arguing with someone who used the headlines of a game review as an argument.
 

Champ

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The evidence was posted on this page:


I'm happy to talk about football styles, Rose in particular still has to proof that he can deal with extreme negativity and if you look through the thread you can see that I expected him to struggle this season. But you can't get to that level of discussion if you don't watch the football and keep posting incomplete stats with lazy conclusions. It also seems impossible for you to actually name the particular mistakes Rose is making aside from "something something late goals".
I'm not talking about games where they've taken the lead? You're using these stats to back up something I'm not actually refering too?!
I'm talking about games where they've conceded goals in the last 15 minutes, like Leverkusen last week, like Real Madrid, Like Inter, like Wolfsburg, Union Berlin last year etc etc etc.
Well Over 40% of all their goals conceded are in the last 15 minutes of games, I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that?