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Luke1995

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he needs to bulk up a little (maybe a lot) which will help him become a powerful center forward
That will make him less agile. I hope he stays where he is at right now and retains his pace and agility.
 

Santoryo

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I'd say that depends to be honest. I think he's already a quality player. That's without even considering his age.

Maybe if we expect him to develop into a world class dribbling winger, the close control might hinder him. But hopefully he develops into a CF, or well, wide forward. He's got more than enough good qualities to really excel there.
I think this is the way people should look at Rashford.

The expectation from some is for him to have this amazing close control and such but for the type of player he is he could do without amazing close control but just a fine one which I think he does have.

A player doesn't necessarily need to have that rare close control to be formidable. I personally feel like he's improved a lot since breaking into the scene. There was a point I thought he started to become hopeless but he's shown genuine improvements.

He doesn't run the ball out of play anymore which used to be frequent with him. His decision making has become mixed rather than just plain awful a year or so ago. And I find him pleasing to watch.

This year improvements has been quite apparent to me because I use to think he was too lacking technically to amount to much but he's seriously upped his game in my eyes.
 

Ish

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I think this is the way people should look at Rashford.

The expectation from some is for him to have this amazing close control and such but for the type of player he is he could do without amazing close control but just a fine one which I think he does have.

A player doesn't necessarily need to have that rare close control to be formidable. I personally feel like he's improved a lot since breaking into the scene. There was a point I thought he started to become hopeless but he's shown genuine improvements.

He doesn't run the ball out of play anymore which used to be frequent with him. His decision making has become mixed rather than just plain awful a year or so ago. And I find him pleasing to watch.

This year improvements has been quite apparent to me because I use to think he was too lacking technically to amount to much but he's seriously upped his game in my eyes.
Yeah there’s also this sort of expectation these days that if a player isn’t Rooney levels of amazing as a teenager, that they’ll automatically struggle to develop. Like some technique can’t be improved through hard work and practice. Players also develop at different rates. I have high hopes for Rashford. He was just 3rd in the golden boy awards. So he’s done something right to be recognized.
 

yfoFC

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I think this is the way people should look at Rashford.

The expectation from some is for him to have this amazing close control and such but for the type of player he is he could do without amazing close control but just a fine one which I think he does have.

A player doesn't necessarily need to have that rare close control to be formidable. I personally feel like he's improved a lot since breaking into the scene. There was a point I thought he started to become hopeless but he's shown genuine improvements.

He doesn't run the ball out of play anymore which used to be frequent with him. His decision making has become mixed rather than just plain awful a year or so ago. And I find him pleasing to watch.

This year improvements has been quite apparent to me because I use to think he was too lacking technically to amount to much but he's seriously upped his game in my eyes.
Been meaning to ask but does your name perhaps have any connection to roronoa zoro?

And I had to take a double take when seeing who posted such a piece on rashford. A supposed "martial fan", where's the bias mahn:nervous:

Anyways, it closely mirrors my attitude shift on rashford as well. This season he has impressed me I will not lie
 

NotQuiteManc

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That will make him less agile. I hope he stays where he is at right now and retains his pace and agility.
I agree. Being too bulky would only slows him down, when he is playing in position where he is not required to do that. Lewandowski, Benzema, are not bulky and I think those two could be a good example/template for Rashford.

Benzema played on the wide left before he goes to play in the centre for Lyon. I don't think Rashford being played there now is not going to hinder his development. If anything, in theory he should develop into a better overall player, plus giving him the playing time needed for a (still) very young player learning his trade.
 

Luke1995

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I agree. Being too bulky would only slows him down, when he is playing in position where he is not required to do that. Lewandowski, Benzema, are not bulky and I think those two could be a good example/template for Rashford.

Benzema played on the wide left before he goes to play in the centre for Lyon. I don't think Rashford being played there now is not going to hinder his development. If anything, in theory he should develop into a better overall player, plus giving him the playing time needed for a (still) very young player learning his trade.
Now, if getting alot more muscle meant he would turn into a new C.Ronaldo and score 50 goals a season, he should definitely do it, but although he is a good poacher too, the main things which allow him to score are creating space to shoot on his own by going past defenders and moving well and accurately without the ball to put himself in a good position to receive the ball and shoot, muscle would only allow him to win more headers and retain possession more when we needed to slow the game down. Messi is the perfect example that muscle benefits only apply to people who are naturally built to make use of it (Ibrahimovic, Lukaku...)
 

haram

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I just don’t see the development to be honest. He just doesn’t have the close control of the ball to be a really quality player. He’s a good player but I’m not sure if I see him going beyond that.
There is more to football than just close control though.
 

Raees

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There is more to football than just close control though.
There's a basic level of close control you expect for an elite attacker of any top side in any position. Right now he isn't quite there on that front imo
 

haram

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There's a basic level of close control you expect for an elite attacker of any top side in any position. Right now he isn't quite there on that front imo
Good thing he's only 20 then...
 

Santoryo

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Been meaning to ask but does your name perhaps have any connection to roronoa zoro?

And I had to take a double take when seeing who posted such a piece on rashford. A supposed "martial fan", where's the bias mahn:nervous:

Anyways, it closely mirrors my attitude shift on rashford as well. This season he has impressed me I will not lie
Yeah it's from One piece Zoro. Used to be a fan of that manga(I preferred reading the manga rather than watching the anime due to abundance of fillers).
 

R10Football

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Hes a good player, i just feel as a natural talent, he is overhyped by some on here. A lot of things he tries are tricks and flicks not knowing really if its going to work on to speak. I know thats the case with all dribblers, but him, you have a sense of, he doesnt know why he did the trick or has real control of it.

He either has a brilliant match, or can be the worse player on the pitch. You dont know what you are going to get. Still is very raw in the scheme of things.
 

Raees

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Close control.

That was a nice moment granted but once again led to nowhere and that moment aside, there was one more in the first half where he cut in and had a shot from 40 yards. Other than that, he was running into players or going out of play a fair bit which I don't buy the excuse of he's 20 and that's normal - Jesus, Martial, Mbappe, Dembele etc it is rare you see them just run it out of play as soon as they're pressured.. losing the ball by making bad decisions is normal but lack of control in general is rare and in terms of range of skills - Rashford matches them so it's strange. It's not normal for players to be running the ball out of play especially when the hype surrounding him suggests he's destined for the top. It's something which could a genuine weakness and one hopes it can get addressed asap because things like this are core skills which should be sorted out at a younger age - and then you refine with age. For his sake I hope it's a case of adjusting to new body etc and he is slightly disoriented hence the lack of synergy between his mind and body at times.
 

roonster09

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That was a nice moment granted but once again led to nowhere and that moment aside, there was one more in the first half where he cut in and had a shot from 40 yards. Other than that, he was running into players or going out of play a fair bit which I don't buy the excuse of he's 20 and that's normal - Jesus, Martial, Mbappe, Dembele etc it is rare you see them just run it out of play as soon as they're pressured.. losing the ball by making bad decisions is normal but lack of control in general is rare and in terms of range of skills - Rashford matches them so it's strange. It's not normal for players to be running the ball out of play especially when the hype surrounding him suggests he's destined for the top. It's something which could a genuine weakness and one hopes it can get addressed asap because things like this are core skills which should be sorted out at a younger age - and then you refine with age. For his sake I hope it's a case of adjusting to new body etc and he is slightly disoriented hence the lack of synergy between his mind and body at times.
Yeah it's not normal

 

Raees

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Yeah it's not normal

Great post. Everyone has moments where they feck up but you compare the dribbling of the young Ronaldo and it's on another level to any of those youngsters I named tbh. He overdid it at times but he would regularly leave players for dust and had insane skill and agility. Lacked the close control of a Messi but Messi aside he was right up there with the best of his generation as a dribbler.
 

roonster09

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Great post. Everyone has moments where they feck up but you compare the dribbling of the young Ronaldo and it's on another level to any of those youngsters I named tbh. He overdid it at times but he would regularly leave players for dust and had insane skill and agility. Lacked the close control of a Messi but Messi aside he was right up there with the best of his generation as a dribbler.
So Ronaldo also lacked control sometimes which you thought isn't normal. Do you watch 90 mins of every game of Mbappe, Jesus, Dembele to tell they don't run the ball out? If you don't watch then your point is not valid, if you say you watch then it's hard to believe that.
 

prath92

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I have never felt like Rashford lacks close control. Maybe he isn’t as easy on the eye as martial but he almost always keeps the ball after dribbling past players. I think he is also a more all round player than martial.
 

Raees

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So Ronaldo also lacked control sometimes which you thought isn't normal. Do you watch 90 mins of every game of Mbappe, Jesus, Dembele to tell they don't run the ball out? If you don't watch then your point is not valid, if you say you watch then it's hard to believe that.
I do watch 90 mins of those players actually. Jesus isn't that great a dribbler, he keeps it very simple so whilst he does have tighter control in tight spaces he's not very daring with the ball and Marcus has way more to do in terms of ball carrying than Jesus. Jesus is very overrated as an all round player imo. He's more a poacher.

Mbappe and Dembele are better comparisons to Marcus. Yes every player might have odd moments when they might overrun with the ball but in general they look a lot more in control of the ball and if they do lose the ball it's through a good tackle or them trying too much ..but not as often is it a case of losing control of the ball or running it out of play. They're not perfect no one is but definitely ahead of Rashford by a long way on that front.

One thing I will say is that they've been fortunate to play for very attacking coaches and sides for club and country which has refined their skills and gives them more space to work with and forces them to confront packed defences more often whereas Marcus plays predominantly in pragmatic counter set ups which forces him to run at speed and be very direct and that may have an effect on his development thus far.
 

roonster09

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I do watch 90 mins of those players actually. Jesus isn't that great a dribbler, he keeps it very simple so whilst he does have tighter control in tight spaces he's not very daring with the ball and Marcus has way more to do in terms of ball carrying than Jesus. Jesus is very overrated as an all round player imo. He's more a poacher.

Mbappe and Dembele are better comparisons to Marcus. Yes every player might have odd moments when they might overrun with the ball but in general they look a lot more in control of the ball and if they do lose the ball it's through a good tackle or them trying too much ..but not as often is it a case of losing control of the ball or running it out of play. They're not perfect no one is but definitely ahead of Rashford by a long way on that front.

One thing I will say is that they've been fortunate to play for very attacking coaches and sides for club and country which has refined their skills and gives them more space to work with and forces them to confront packed defences more often whereas Marcus plays predominantly in pragmatic counter set ups which forces him to run at speed and be very direct and that may have an effect on his development thus far.
Rashford doesn't run the ball out many times, it happened few times as he tried to take on too many times or lack of concentration at particular points.

Also his close control is more than good enough to be very good attacker for us, it's not among the best in the world but it's very good as he demonstrated so many times. If you check Dortmund fan's opinion on Dembele they will tell you how frustrating player he was as he lost possession many times (maybe wrong but I remember reading them here).

Also you said yourself, other players play in more attacking set up and with better movement, so it's easier for them to showcase their complete skills.
 

Boycott

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Rashford's a brilliant young player but I can see @Raees point. I see a young Michael Owen in him - absolutely rapid, daring and fearless. In Martial I completely see the Henry comparison. Beautiful balance, close control, effortless ball carrying.

As great as Owen was (and for those too young Owen back in the late 90s-early2000s was a star), his style of play was a bit kick and run compared to the very best.
 

Zlatattack

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I suspect this “kick and run” stuff is being overstated.
It's only because he's English. If he wasn't english he'd be a great talent who was "rough around the edges". Because he's english they just assume he's got the talent of Jordan Henderson...
 

TwoSheds

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Rashford's a brilliant young player but I can see @Raees point. I see a young Michael Owen in him - absolutely rapid, daring and fearless. In Martial I completely see the Henry comparison. Beautiful balance, close control, effortless ball carrying.

As great as Owen was (and for those too young Owen back in the late 90s-early2000s was a star), his style of play was a bit kick and run compared to the very best.
When did Michael Owen do crazy tricks though? Guy was a poacher with fantastic movement who could rinse people for pace. His technique was never special.
 

Boycott

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When did Michael Owen do crazy tricks though? Guy was a poacher with fantastic movement who could rinse people for pace. His technique was never special.
Not tricks but I wouldn't say he was a poacher. He could carry the ball with menacing speed and make his own space and chances out of nothing.

He also couldn’t take set-pieces and got very few assists. But he was definitely English. So there’s that...
Come off it man. On this forum and probably this very thread you have posters say English players are overrated due to their nationality and another set of posters who say they're underrated.

The Owen comparison I made is because both broke through and starred quickly and speed is a major component of it. The point was responding to Raees' argument that Rashford's close control is loose. He has the talent and mindset by the sounds of it to keep working and I'm sure he will. You may disagree and that's fine but it's not outrageous to suggest Rashford relies heavily on out-pacing his marker hence why he runs the ball out of play or runs into defenders more than Martial whose close control is excellent and who doesn't always need the afterburners on to beat a man. And nor is it insulting to compare him with a former POTY.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Not tricks but I wouldn't say he was a poacher. He could carry the ball with menacing speed and make his own space and chances out of nothing.



Come off it man. On this forum and probably this very thread you have posters say English players are overrated due to their nationality and another set of posters who say they're underrated.

The Owen comparison I made is because both broke through and starred quickly and speed is a major component of it. The point was responding to Raees' argument that Rashford's close control is loose. He has the talent and mindset by the sounds of it to keep working and I'm sure he will. You may disagree and that's fine but it's not outrageous to suggest Rashford relies heavily on out-pacing his marker hence why he runs the ball out of play or runs into defenders more than Martial whose close control is excellent and who doesn't always need the afterburners on to beat a man. And nor is it insulting to compare him with a former POTY.
My memory of Owen is much more of him being a poacher than yours. Sure he was quick but that was mainly coming off the shoulder of the last defender, rather than dribbling past players from deep (memorable goal against Argentina aside) and he was a lethal finisher (which is not yet true about Marcus). Javier Hernandez reminded me of Owen but Rashford seems a very different animal. I actually would like to see him become much more of a poacher. I think his anticipation and movement in the box could improve and his finishing is a bit hit and miss. But he looks like becoming a much more complete and technical footballer than Michael Owen. Just lacks his nose for a goal (which is a hell of an important skill for a striker to have tbf!)

And yeah, comparison with a young Michael Owen should hardly be construed as criticism. He was a hell of a player.
 
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Boycott

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My memory of Owen is much more of him being a poacher than yours. Sure he was quick but that was mainly coming off the shoulder of the last defender, rather than dribbling past players from deep (memorable goal against Argentina aside) Javier Hernandez reminded me of him but Rashford seems a very different animal. I actually would like to see Marcus become much more of a poacher. I think his anticipation and movement in the box could improve. But he’s already a way more complete and technical footballer than Michael Owen ever and was. Just lacks his nose for a goal (which is a hell of an important skill for a striker to have tbf!)
Fair points there. I believe Rashford will get to the top because he's clearly got natural talent and fearlessness.

Regarding poachers - it's semantics but I do think Owen was a bit more than a poacher. Owen scored different types of finishes from some innocuous positions. Yeah his pace helped him greatly and once the pace went he suffered but even then the ability to isolate defenders and get them backpeddling is something I don't see much from Hernandez/Defoe/Gomez types who I class as goal poachers. Those types rely on right place right time crosses and cut backs a lot.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Fair points there. I believe Rashford will get to the top because he's clearly got natural talent and fearlessness.

Regarding poachers - it's semantics but I do think Owen was a bit more than a poacher. Owen scored different types of finishes from some innocuous positions. Yeah his pace helped him greatly and once the pace went he suffered but even then the ability to isolate defenders and get them backpeddling is something I don't see much from Hernandez/Defoe/Gomez types who I class as goal poachers. Those types rely on right place right time crosses and cut backs a lot.
It'd definitely possible your memory of Owen is more accurate than mine. I actually looked up "best Owen goals" on youtube and they're more diverse than I've just given him credit for.
 

Raees

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Rashford's a brilliant young player but I can see @Raees point. I see a young Michael Owen in him - absolutely rapid, daring and fearless. In Martial I completely see the Henry comparison. Beautiful balance, close control, effortless ball carrying.

As great as Owen was (and for those too young Owen back in the late 90s-early2000s was a star), his style of play was a bit kick and run compared to the very best.
Michael Owen was a hell of a talent at 18, a better player than Marcus at that age IMO.

He definitely relied alot on pace, and he had a very simple dribbling technique, but he was very good in tight confined spaces and kept the ball very close to himself due to that low centre of gravity. He could also beat multiple players at that age and excellent decision-making for his age.

What Marcus has over him is the greater range of skills, set pieces, long range shots, more skills in his locker, physically has potential to become stronger etc. Marcus has more potential for sure, but people heavily underrate Owen at his peak. England's best big match attacking talent since Gascoigne/Shearer IMO... and even after he lost his pace, had zero ability to get past people, he had super intelligent movement off the ball and cold as feck composure in front of goal.

I hope Rashford goes on to become a more complete player than him, but lets hold our horses before we say he's already better than Owen was at that age. Owen at his best, was like a slightly less talented version of an Aguero that we see now, but more mentally stronger and better finisher under pressure.
 

Robindinho

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Been awful - just seems to be in the way... he’s either stood just behind Martial or marking Lukaku.

Get on the right ffs
 

bosnian_red

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Yeah would like to see him on the right more. Actually capable of having proper winger like moments (like that bit where he had a dribble and whipped it in). Want to see more of that from him. As a 10 hes probably just too inconsistent. That pass to martial shouldve been made, but hes young so thats the consistency part. One bad game doesnt mean it cant work.
 
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