Marcus Rashford (Out) | Ornstein: United want to keep, will only consider substantial bids

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,702
So if you have a player who can produce 30-40GA if surrounded by good players, your solution is to sell that player, rather than buy the good players who will help make us a better team?
When an individual player scores loads of goals I'd like to ask the following questions

a- Can he produce the goods without being the focal point of the team?
b-Can he do it season in season out? Cause if he needs to be the focal point of the team then you'll probably need to build a team around him. Therefore if he scores 5 goals in season 1, 30 in season 2, and 7 goals in season 3 then you're pretty screwed during the lean years
c- what you're gaining out of it and what you're losing out of it. RVN had more killer instinct in his right toe than Rashy had in his entire body yet his workrate was abysmal. Defensive wise it was like playing with 10 men. Now since Rashford is not RVN then he must bring way more to the table then RVN did. Is Rashford hardworking? Does he backtrack?
d-He's a 300k+ a week. Does he act like a 300k a week player? Cause I promise you the next time a winger comes in and do better then Rashy then he'll ask for his salary. No one likes to be paid less despite producing a better job
e- Rashford is a senior player. Does he act like one? Is he dedicated on and off the pitch?
 
Last edited:

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
15,970
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
Yeah, I don’t think Milan have the financial firepower to fight off PSG if they come calling. I’d hope we still do. It’s going to be a bad look if, after not even being in the running for Kane and Bellingham last summer, we can’t even hold on to Rashford when one of the big clubs comes calling. Still, if we are forced to sell, I’d expect it to be upwards of £100m. £75m is laughable.
Huh? We only sell Rashford if we want to sell him and replace him with someone better or more suited to how we want to play, not because we're 'forced' to.

It's like saying we were forced to sell RVN or Beckham, or Real Madrid were forced to sell Robben or Di Maria.
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
14,333
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
It’ll probably be closer to what someone like Sterling went for given they had similar wages. Sterling never had seasons where he decided to not bother working either. Rashford at his best is better than Sterling. In an average game sterling was more useful though and City had absolutely no problem letting him or Sane go. We’d still be flogging David Silva and Aguero 100% if we had them. Recruitment, keeping the squad fresh and motivated is imperative to building any culture of success. Rashford being told he can leave if he doesn’t want to be here will send shockwaves through the playing staff (hopefully) We aren’t going to messing around anymore.
 

Trequarista10

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Messages
2,542
Wouldn't mind selling him if we can bring in a good replacement. Selling him would be a lower priority than selling Sancho and Antony though, so we might end up needing two or maybe even three new wingers/wide forwards.

Garnacho appears on track to establish himself as an important player and one who could become one of the best wide forwards in the league in time. But a good squad needs 3 or ideally 4 such players, plus one or two youngsters or versatile players in reserve. Hopefully Diallo gets some game time this season so he can make a case to be one of the 4.
 

Irwin99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
9,377
Agreed, except:


Will he though? Rashford is inconsistent and high maintenance. A new manager who’s coming in with his eyes open might wonder whether he’s worth the effort. A DoF might well think the same, given the number of other things that need fixing.


Possibly. I’m not convinced Rashford is capable of any more great seasons; he just doesn’t seem capable of the required physical intensity.
Well, I suppose managers/DoFs can be like anyone else in thinking that problems were specific to previous bosses and that they can be the ones to 'fix' the issue. For example, Jose apparently said to the United board that they would never win titles with some of the players that are still here at the club even now and I suspect Martial was one of those players. Ole comes in after Jose is fired, makes Martial his star striker, he has a terrific first full season with Ole and then has an abysmal second season (from which his career has never recovered, four years on). I think Ralf also made comments about players that were, allegedly, dismissed by EtH according to reports.

I would be really shocked if Rashford leaves next season if a big offer came in. It would be a massive statement of intent that no one is safe from under-performing though.
 

Revaulx

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
6,046
Location
Saddleworth
Well, I suppose managers/DoFs can be like anyone else in thinking that problems were specific to previous bosses and that they can be the ones to 'fix' the issue. For example, Jose apparently said to the United board that they would never win titles with some of the players that are still here at the club even now and I suspect Martial was one of those players. Ole comes in after Jose is fired, makes Martial his star striker, he has a terrific first full season with Ole and then has an abysmal second season (from which his career has never recovered, four years on). I think Ralf also made comments about players that were, allegedly, dismissed by EtH according to reports.
Oh definitely! The thing is though that we’re supposed to be moving away from relying on individual egos, be they managerial or Ed Woodward, and working towards a more rational data-driven approach.

I would be really shocked if Rashford leaves next season if a big offer came in. It would be a massive statement of intent that no one is safe from under-performing though.
It certainly would.

I’m not sure how it would turn out for Rashford though. A massive fee is going to pile up the pressure on him to be the star player. I don’t think that will do him any good.
 

Swiss_Red89

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
Messages
1,478
I for one hope he will not be sold. The day Marcus Rashford leaves ManUnited will be a sad day for me.
 

The Corinthian

I will not take Mad Winger's name in vain
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
11,848
Supports
A Free Palestine
While thats obviously true, he’s never actually been the best player during those good spells. In lockdown Martial and Greenwood were better. For Ole, Martial and Pogba were better. For Mourinho Ibra and Pogba were also better. Last season was the only time he’s been our “best” player but we didn’t play great stuff back then and even that aside I’d argue Bruno, Casa and Martinez were more influential to our good football spells.
That's not true - in the season where Bruno joined mid-season, Rashford was carrying that team from Aug to Dec. He was in fantastic form around then, and the only one who was performing.
 

OwlvsFox

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 11, 2024
Messages
6
He needs to be sold. I don't think there should be any discussion about that.

He has same mentality sulking issues under numerous managers, he will be 27 this year in Oct and not a child anymore.

He is a good player at best who relies on pace alone with not enough other attributes to deserve ~350K pounds a week. For that sort of money, we should get world class talent or 1 level below world class and he is no where near that bar 1 or 2 season out of 7/8 he has played. I am sorry but he just doesn't do enough.

On top, SJR will want to have a good summer window and selling him will take away a lot of FFP issues. I am sure we can get 90-100m for him if PSG is indeed interested.

We love to overhype our players, time for me to cash in while we still can.
 

MDFC Manager

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
24,307
Wouldn't mind selling him if we can bring in a good replacement. Selling him would be a lower priority than selling Sancho and Antony though, so we might end up needing two or maybe even three new wingers/wide forwards.
Given how FFP works, i think selling him becomes higher priority. It will allow balancing out the squad.
 

Reyoji-Utd

Full Member
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
415
Location
USA
There is a player in there when hes performing. Im not sure what is the pronlem, is it because hes played too many games last season, and it caught up to him (like poters said)? The consistency? The injury (or unease feeling that he might get injured again thats why he dont perform or run 100% all the time?

For me if we decides on how to play and think that he wont be optimal to how we want to play then we should sell him regardless of his poster boy status but only its around 100mil. Hes worth that much with his status in the games as a whole package.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

'Liverpool are a proper club'
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
10,727
That's not true - in the season where Bruno joined mid-season, Rashford was carrying that team from Aug to Dec. He was in fantastic form around then, and the only one who was performing.
We were awful in that spell though.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,909
Location
Somewhere out there
There is a player in there when hes performing. Im not sure what is the pronlem, is it because hes played too many games last season, and it caught up to him (like poters said)? The consistency? The injury (or unease feeling that he might get injured again thats why he dont perform or run 100% all the time?
It’s because we’re shite as a team clearly, and Rashford isn’t good enough to rise above everything when all around him is so shit. It’s quite common just look at Liverpool last year and the difference in some of their players when the rest of the team is purring like this season.

Rashford’s incredible record in the big games hints to me that he will be a massive success at PSG if he goes.
 

Patchbeard

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,578
It’s because we’re shite as a team clearly, and Rashford isn’t good enough to rise above everything when all around him is so shit. It’s quite common just look at Liverpool last year and the difference in some of their players when the rest of the team is purring like this season.

Rashford’s incredible record in the big games hints to me that he will be a massive success at PSG if he goes.
Not sure how good he'll be considering how he thrives on counter attacking football but they surely get a lot of teams parking the bus against them in the league. His lack of tracking back would certainly be indulged though as he would be replacing a player with the same trait.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,909
Location
Somewhere out there
Not sure how good he'll be considering how he thrives on counter attacking football but they surely get a lot of teams parking the bus against them in the league. His lack of tracking back would certainly be indulged though as he would be replacing a player with the same trait.
I’ve seen him thrive even under Louis van Gaal as a young kid. If you look at all of his best seasons, he can thrive in many situations, but they just tend to be when his team functions much better as a unit. He’s not the cream that rises above the rest to the top, but he’s an excellent player when a team is playing well.

I’m certain that in a well functioning team, he’ll be excellent, as that’s always been the case with him, due to that I think we’d be best off looking at why we’re shite as a team, rather than looking at selling players we know can/do thrive when the team is playing well.
 
Last edited:

Patchbeard

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,578
I’ve seen him thrive even under Louis van Gaal as a young kid. If you look at all of his best seasons, he can thrive in many situations, but they just tend to be when his team functions much better as a unit. He’s not the cream that rises above the rest to the top, but he’s an excellent player when a team is playing well.

I’m certain that in a well functioning team, he’ll be excellent, as that’s always been the case with him, due to that I think we’d be best off looking at why we’re shite as a team, rather than looking at selling players we know can/do thrive when the team is playing well.
Personally I've really had enough of his lack of urgency off the ball and selfishness on the ball. Even when he was at his best last season he still messed up a lot of dangerous opportunities by running down blind alleys and losing the ball or shooting from range when the better option was to pass. But at the time it was overlooked as he was also creating things out of nothing and was undeniably great to watch, albeit still frustrating at times!

So I'm not sure I agree with the point that he is better if the team is functioning. I'm more of the opinion that he is a very individual player who's style disrupts the potential for a functioning team unless he is on top form, because he provides so little to the team when he is not.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

'Liverpool are a proper club'
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
10,727
Personally I've really had enough of his lack of urgency off the ball and selfishness on the ball. Even when he was at his best last season he still messed up a lot of dangerous opportunities by running down blind alleys and losing the ball or shooting from range when the better option was to pass. But at the time it was overlooked as he was also creating things out of nothing and was undeniably great to watch, albeit still frustrating at times!

So I'm not sure I agree with the point that he is better if the team is functioning. I'm more of the opinion that he is a very individual player who's style disrupts the potential for a functioning team unless he is on top form, because he provides so little to the team when he is not.
Yep nail on the head for me.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
31,638
Players, like other humans, can have lapses of judgement and are prone to stupid things. That doesn't mean that a player has "Chronic professionalism issues". Even Scholes had an incident or two with Sir Alex where he acted like a dick, but no one claims that Scholes was not a professional. I remember one season when Rooney was dropped in a crucial holiday fixture when he went out partying or something. But that one incident didn't define Rooney's professional career.
Scholes played in a completely different time. I don't think you can point to many other players of the calibre Rashford is supposedly at and say "yeah they do the same thing". Not Saka or Foden or Kulusevski or Son or Palmer etc etc.
I can grant Rashford as at least being aware to know he made mistakes and looking to fix them, which is why he doesnt get exiled on the squad, but I think there is enough evidence to suggest he lapses too often for a supposedly top player.
So, you can be unprofessional as long as you don't speak out publicly. New information but point taken.
No, you can be forgiven to be unprofessional as long as you acknowledge that you did wrong, take your medicine and work to get back on the pitch again.
Terribly inconsistent as in? He has been dropped prior to this season because of similar issues. Again, new information.
Terribly inconsistent as in being good for a bit then shite for a long time then being good again.
Last season first 2/3rds of the season he was amazing, then in the final third of the season he was shit. The season before he was shit all season. This season he's shit all season. 3 seasons ago he was good. If you struggle to grasp how Rashford is terribly inconsistent then just give up the debate now.
Again, like I mentioned, both the down seasons have come after he was overworked in the previous seasons. Imo, that definitely has played a part. He also has had three 20+ goals seasons in the last 5 (with this one still to end).
As I said he's a severely limited player such that if he's not scoring, hes not exactly contributing in general play.
No top player at 26 should be seen as indispensable when their last 3 seasons are 7 goals (and counting), 30 goals (Great) and then 3 goals the season prior whilst STILL being limited in general play.
He doesn't want it now when he himself said he wants us to be the "best transition team in the world", which is just a fancy way of describing counter-attacking football. What is counter-attacking if not speedily transitioning from the defensive phase to the attacking phase? Counter-attacking doesn't mean just sitting back, absorbing pressure and then hoofing it to your front men.
Ten Hag has said he wanted more direct play and winning the ball higher up the pitch ,which isn't the same as just scoring by running in behind. Rashford is generally shite at pressing and tracking back, and he's erratic in decision making (sometimes good, often shite, as shown with his last 3 seasons). That doesn't suit a club like Manchester United.
Worth flagging he said he's applying this approach because he didnt have the players for a more possession orientated approach. Who knows how that changes in the next window, who knows if the board even trust ten hag to adopt that.
Every team, either transition or possession based, need players who can run in behind and keep the defenses honest. And that is one of Rashford's featured attributes, and the reason why he would excel in any set-up. He has the speed and his dribbling to really hurt the opposition.

Diaz and Martinelli are far more polished players than Rashford? You sure about that because that is not remotely true. Rashford has a very good touch. He has quick feet and is a good dribbler. Also, saying that either of those players have better decision making is surely a joke.
In general play both those players are far better than Rashford. They have better first touches, work tight angles better on a consistent basis, have better decision making and work far harder. This is all a comfortable no brainer when comparing those players to Rashford, who is far more erratic in his dribbling, almost always runs into traffic, doesn't work near hard enough and has inconsistency on his own decision making.
 
Last edited:

phonics_tid

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
Your Mother Was a Hamster and Your Father Smelt of
I’ve said this before in this thread but it’s a fairly simple decision for me, he can’t be trusted. There’s guys in our squad with half his talent but still, you know they’ll go out and give it as much effort as they can. With Rashford, I think you can confidently say that there’s been numerous instances where he’s just not even bothered to try. I don’t see how any manager or teammate can trust him knowing he’s capable of downing tools and not fighting.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,363
If we’re planning on buying a prospect of a CB for £70mil then the figure for PSG best be 9 digits.
 

Doracle

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
3,015
Scholes played in a completely different time. I don't think you can point to many other players of the calibre Rashford is supposedly at and say "yeah they do the same thing". Not Saka or Foden or Kulusevski or Son or Palmer etc etc.
I can grant Rashford as at least being aware to know he made mistakes and looking to fix them, which is why he doesnt get exiled on the squad, but I think there is enough evidence to suggest he lapses too often for a supposedly top player.

No, you can be forgiven to be unprofessional as long as you acknowledge that you did wrong, take your medicine and work to get back on the pitch again.

Terribly inconsistent as in being good for a bit then shite for a long time then being good again.
Last season first 2/3rds of the season he was amazing, then in the final third of the season he was shit. The season before he was shit all season. This season he's shit all season. 3 seasons ago he was good. If you struggle to grasp how Rashford is terribly inconsistent then just give up the debate now.

As I said he's a severely limited player such that if he's not scoring, hes not exactly contributing in general play.
No top player at 26 should be seen as indispensable when their last 3 seasons are 7 goals (and counting), 30 goals (Great) and then 3 goals the season prior whilst STILL being limited in general play.

Ten Hag has said he wanted more direct play and winning the ball higher up the pitch ,which isn't the same as just scoring by running in behind. Rashford is generally shite at pressing and tracking back, and he's erratic in decision making (sometimes good, often shite, as shown with his last 3 seasons). That doesn't suit a club like Manchester United.
Worth flagging he said he's applying this approach because he didnt have the players for a more possession orientated approach. Who knows how that changes in the next window, who knows if the board even trust ten hag to adopt that.

In general play both those players are far better than Rashford. They have better first touches, work tight angles better on a consistent basis, have better decision making and work far harder. This is all a comfortable no brainer when comparing those players to Rashford, who is far more erratic in his dribbling, almost always runs into traffic, doesn't work near hard enough and has inconsistency on his own decision making.
Diaz and Martinelli aren’t even close to having better first touches than Rashford. I’m going to say that you simply don’t watch either of those players much as, other than the fact I agree that they work far harder, the rest is hopelessly off point. I’d add that they also have nowhere near the passing range of Rashford, aren’t as good at finishing or shooting from distance and are more injury prone. They are both probably at least one tier below him.

Oh, and it can’t be underestimated that they also play for much better coached teams. It’s amazing the difference it can make if players are clear on their roles and know what their teammates are going to do. Sadly, this season, any form of structure or coaching seems to have gone entirely out the window at United.

Even if you don’t want to put the full blame on Ten Hag for that failing, you can’t seriously be excusing all his faults because of injuries but then turning a blind eye to that when you want to say Rashford has been poor. When your entire spiel for why Ten Hag is failing is that it’s impossible to do well with most of a team injured that then also has to apply to the players who carry on playing when all around them has fallen. Surely you’d have to wait and see how Rashford does when ETH is able to coach the team properly when all the injuries have recovered before selling him? This is a guy who had 40GA only last season when things were working better.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,363
Diaz and Martinelli aren’t even close to having better first touches than Rashford. I’m going to say that you simply don’t watch either of those players much as, other than the fact I agree that they work far harder, the rest is hopelessly off point. I’d add that they also have nowhere near the passing range of Rashford, aren’t as good at finishing or shooting from distance and are more injury prone. They are both probably at least one tier below him.

Oh, and it can’t be underestimated that they also play for much better coached teams. It’s amazing the difference it can make if players are clear on their roles and know what their teammates are going to do. Sadly, this season, any form of structure or coaching seems to have gone entirely out the window at United.

Even if you don’t want to put the full blame on Ten Hag for that failing, you can’t seriously be excusing all his faults because of injuries but then turning a blind eye to that when you want to say Rashford has been poor. When your entire spiel for why Ten Hag is failing is that it’s impossible to do well with most of a team injured that then also has to apply to the players who carry on playing when all around them has fallen. Surely you’d have to wait and see how Rashford does when ETH is able to coach the team properly when all the injuries have recovered before selling him? This is a guy who had 40GA only last season when things were working better.
I don’t fully agree with this post but I’m behind the sentiment. If I were Rashford & read some of the shite fans throw at me on forums/social media all whilst making excuses for players whose faces fit you wouldn’t just have to drive me to Paris, I’d already have a renovation going on there.

We’ve an £80mil Brazilian example of what happens when you go out & buy a ‘ready made’ winger sat on the bench. We’ve another example currently on loan back in Germany. We’ve another example of a £40mil prospect who can’t get off the

Can you improve on Rashford long term? Yes hopefully but selling Rashford for the reported fee then using that fee to buy a centre back from a team that is battling for relegation doesn’t quite add up to me. Unless PSG break the bank they can feck off.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,909
Location
Somewhere out there
So I'm not sure I agree with the point that he is better if the team is functioning. I'm more of the opinion that he is a very individual player who's style disrupts the potential for a functioning team unless he is on top form, because he provides so little to the team when he is not.
So by that logic, Rashford is such an incredible enigma that when he plays well, our entire team looks miles better, but when he plays poorly our entire team looks like shite that can barely string two passes together?

We finished on 74 points in second in 2021, then on 75 points & third last season. Rashford was incredible in both and apparently the sole reason for us being great then and absolutely fecking terrible the following seasons. Because Rashford good = United good, Rashford shit = United shit.
 

Steve Bruce

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
1,362
So by that logic, Rashford is such an incredible enigma that when he plays well, our entire team looks miles better, but when he plays poorly our entire team looks like shite that can barely string two passes together?

We finished on 74 points in second in 2021, then on 75 points & third last season. Rashford was incredible in both and apparently the sole reason for us being great then and absolutely fecking terrible the following seasons. Because Rashford good = United good, Rashford shit = United shit.
I think it's the other way good united = good rashford

You have players that can pull a team bad team forward and you have players that need the team to get the best out of them. Rashford falls into the latter category
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,909
Location
Somewhere out there
I think it's the other way good united = good rashford

You have players that can pull a team bad team forward and you have players that need the team to get the best out of them. Rashford falls into the latter category
That’s my point exactly. Bang on the money.

His 3 best seasons we finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd and in between those we’ve had a couple of horror seasons (Ole/Ragnick) and this season.
When we’re shit, he’s shit and when we’re good, he’s good. I personally think we should concentrate more on making United good consistently and spend less time wanting to flog every player who is shit when we’re shit, cause after Ole/Ragnick and this season, we’d be selling 15 players.
Concentrate instead on getting rid of the players who are average to meh even when we’re good, and we have lots of those.
 

eire-red

Full Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
2,650
Whether you think he’s worth that or not it’s about time we started commanding top money for our players. Other clubs regularly ask for ridiculous fees for theirs and a lot of the time get their way, usually due to incompetent clubs like ours bowing to their demands. We’ve been mugged off in the market consistently for the last 10yrs, hopefully that ends now under the INEOS regime.
Case in point are Antony and Mudryk. Rashford is far superior than either, despite his flaws.
 

AndySmith1990

Full Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2021
Messages
6,250
That’s my point exactly. Bang on the money.

His 3 best seasons we finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd and in between those we’ve had a couple of horror seasons (Ole/Ragnick) and this season.
When we’re shit, he’s shit and when we’re good, he’s good. I personally think we should concentrate more on making United good consistently and spend less time wanting to flog every player who is shit when we’re shit, cause after Ole/Ragnick and this season, we’d be selling 15 players.
Concentrate instead on getting rid of the players who are average to meh even when we’re good, and we have lots of those.
We won't be consistently good while we have players like Rashford who pick and choose when they show up. It's his job to put in the effort and be at his best regardless of how good or bad the rest of the team are
 

Doracle

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
3,015
I think it's the other way good united = good rashford

You have players that can pull a team bad team forward and you have players that need the team to get the best out of them. Rashford falls into the latter category
I don’t disagree with this and I certainly feel Rashford could portray better body language and be more of a leader.

However, I’m unconvinced that there are too many wingers (outside Messi) who would look good in our current team. Can you imagine Mbappe in this mess? He’d have downed tools in August when he saw Wolves jogging through our midfield with ease. Son was extremely poor last season at Spurs in similar circumstances. Salah might be an exception but he’s never quite had that situation at Liverpool.

What we want is to improve our team so that we are providing the platform for the stars to perform. If we get to a position where the rest of our team is performing at the level of Liverpool or even Spurs this season, I’ve no doubt that Rashford will return to his best form.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
15,970
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
Well, I suppose managers/DoFs can be like anyone else in thinking that problems were specific to previous bosses and that they can be the ones to 'fix' the issue. For example, Jose apparently said to the United board that they would never win titles with some of the players that are still here at the club even now and I suspect Martial was one of those players. Ole comes in after Jose is fired, makes Martial his star striker, he has a terrific first full season with Ole and then has an abysmal second season (from which his career has never recovered, four years on). I think Ralf also made comments about players that were, allegedly, dismissed by EtH according to reports.
Your point on Martial (or Jose's point on Martial, if you will) doesn't take into account that it was injuries that destroyed him in 20/21. Obviously the torn knee ligaments in the latter part of the season, but we also know that he spent months playing through an injury that stopped him from running properly before that (and the question will always be there whether it was him playing with that injury for so long which ultimately led to what happened after). We'll never know what he could have achieved if it weren't for the injuries, but the fact that he was our best player the only season he had in between Jose leaving and the injuries starting doesn't really give credence to Mourinho's claims.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
15,970
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
Last season first 2/3rds of the season he was amazing, then in the final third of the season he was shit. The season before he was shit all season. This season he's shit all season. 3 seasons ago he was good. If you struggle to grasp how Rashford is terribly inconsistent then just give up the debate now.
Even that's very debatable. He got quite a good amount of goals and assists that season, but his general play was poor. Kind of a 'Lukaku' season if you will, where he got the individual numbers but really didn't help the team as a whole. It was nothing like the previous season (19/20) where he was truly very good while also getting goals and assists.
 

Doracle

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
3,015
Even that's very debatable. He got quite a good amount of goals and assists that season, but his general play was poor. Kind of a 'Lukaku' season if you will, where he got the individual numbers but really didn't help the team as a whole. It was nothing like the previous season (19/20) where he was truly very good while also getting goals and assists.
He was good up until Jan/Feb and then poor at the end of the season. He was clearly struggling with injury though.

Where he does deserve criticism (together with whoever from the club oked it) is in then going to play for England and delaying his operation. I just don’t think that would have happened if he was a City or Liverpool player. Had he had that operation at the end of the 20/21 season, so he was ready at the start of 21/22, a lot of the problems that season might have been avoided.
 

Reyoji-Utd

Full Member
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
415
Location
USA
It’s because we’re shite as a team clearly, and Rashford isn’t good enough to rise above everything when all around him is so shit. It’s quite common just look at Liverpool last year and the difference in some of their players when the rest of the team is purring like this season.

Rashford’s incredible record in the big games hints to me that he will be a massive success at PSG if he goes.
Maybe like you said, i think it boils down to how many of us been looking to him becoming the player that can carry us on his own but keep getting dissapointed. Hes like you said might be able to replicate his form last season with a more functioning and not so injured team we have this year. Its been a mad year because we keep having our 4-6 players of our 11 injured and cant field our best 11 in most matches.

But like i said, if we decide to part ways with each other then it has to be around 100mil when we have every other players quote 100mil and just been playing 1 pro season.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,909
Location
Somewhere out there
We won't be consistently good while we have players like Rashford who pick and choose when they show up. It's his job to put in the effort and be at his best regardless of how good or bad the rest of the team are
I don’t think he picks and chooses though, I think history tells us he plays well, not when he chooses, but when the side are functioning.
When we look an absolute clusterfeck, with gigantic gaps between attack, midfield and defence and can’t string two passes together as a team, he looks shite.
He’s never gonna be the player who drags everyone else’s performances up like a Robson, Cantona or a Keane, or even a Rooney. He’s the type of player that thrives in a side that’s playing well.

Call that a luxury player if you like, but looking at the difference between our players and last season, and Liverpool players compared to last, I’d say it’s much more common than we think that even very good players can look shite if their team is a clusterfeck.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
31,638
Diaz and Martinelli aren’t even close to having better first touches than Rashford. I’m going to say that you simply don’t watch either of those players much as, other than the fact I agree that they work far harder, the rest is hopelessly off point. I’d add that they also have nowhere near the passing range of Rashford, aren’t as good at finishing or shooting from distance and are more injury prone. They are both probably at least one tier below him.
Ironically if you have watched the pair of them this season and looked at Rashford, I Can only assume you've watched no football all year.
Oh, and it can’t be underestimated that they also play for much better coached teams. It’s amazing the difference it can make if players are clear on their roles and know what their teammates are going to do. Sadly, this season, any form of structure or coaching seems to have gone entirely out the window at United.
Right so Rashford's inconsistency in general play comes from bad coaching. Aweosme. Even though we've tried different manner of coaches with their own nuances and approaches, it must all be collectively be on them.
Has it occurred to you that Rashford just isn't that technical in tight spaces or in dribbling decision making? He's supremely talented but he chronically over dribbles or fails to show composure. Last season he was gold, but his head space was free. Now he's down and he cant get his confidence back, sure that impacts his touch and his belief but the question in that case is why is he so mentally fragile.
Even if you don’t want to put the full blame on Ten Hag for that failing, you can’t seriously be excusing all his faults because of injuries but then turning a blind eye to that when you want to say Rashford has been poor. When your entire spiel for why Ten Hag is failing is that it’s impossible to do well with most of a team injured that then also has to apply to the players who carry on playing when all around them has fallen. Surely you’d have to wait and see how Rashford does when ETH is able to coach the team properly when all the injuries have recovered before selling him? This is a guy who had 40GA only last season when things were working better.
Why would not Rashford necessarily beTen Hag failing? He had his best ever season under this same coach a year ago, and even this season isn't necessarily his worst (that was 2 seasons ago). I think the difference now is we are familiar with this trend, he did it with Jose and Ole.
I don’t fully agree with this post but I’m behind the sentiment. If I were Rashford & read some of the shite fans throw at me on forums/social media all whilst making excuses for players whose faces fit you wouldn’t just have to drive me to Paris, I’d already have a renovation going on there.

We’ve an £80mil Brazilian example of what happens when you go out & buy a ‘ready made’ winger sat on the bench. We’ve another example currently on loan back in Germany. We’ve another example of a £40mil prospect who can’t get off the

Can you improve on Rashford long term? Yes hopefully but selling Rashford for the reported fee then using that fee to buy a centre back from a team that is battling for relegation doesn’t quite add up to me. Unless PSG break the bank they can feck off.
Despite my constant criticism of Rashford, I maintain a fan of the man and genuinely want him to succeed. My problem is he's used up all goodwill for patience at 26 and can't get away with being so hot and cold both on and off the ball. Recently he's trying harder on the ball, but thats becase he knows he has eyes on him. We've seen him slip into drift mode for elongated patches way too much.

The reason I'd be fine for him to go is because I think he's either at peak or letting his peak drift by - and that peak is a good season, a bad season, a good season etc. The profit we make on him is clean since he's home grown and that can fund a lot. Just as an exercise, it can fund say, Fringpong, Todibo and probably a left back. It's a lot of money for a 26 year old who is quite inconsistent.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,702
There are players who need a good side to do well and are unable to drag their squad to success. That's fair enough because very few players are game changers. However those who are not of that level aren't usually paid 300k+ a week either. That's for a good reason ie if a player is doing better then the 300k a week player then that player will be asking for that salary as well.

Also when Rashford is shit there's also the tendency that his attitude tend to follow the trend. As said not everyone is a Ronaldo, a Messi, a Maradona, a Baggio or even an Ibra. But that doesn't give the player the allowance to skip training to stay out drinking or to jog on the pitch for most of the time.

Our dressing room is so toxic that its a shambles. I think we need an example out of someone. Whose better then selling someone everyone in that dressing room thinks he's untouchable? Rashford could easily become INEOS version of McGrath. Quite frankly if I was SJR he'll be the first player I would want out hand in hand with his matey Sancho
 

Sancho99

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 23, 2022
Messages
162
There are players who need a good side to do well and are unable to drag their squad to success. That's fair enough because very few players are game changers. However those who are not of that level aren't usually paid 300k+ a week either. That's for a good reason ie if a player is doing better then the 300k a week player then that player will be asking for that salary as well.

Also when Rashford is shit there's also the tendency that his attitude tend to follow the trend. As said not everyone is a Ronaldo, a Messi, a Maradona, a Baggio or even an Ibra. But that doesn't give the player the allowance to skip training to stay up drinking or to jog on the pitch for most of the time.

Our dressing room is so toxic that its a shambles. I think we need an example out of someone. Whose better then selling someone everyone in that dressing room thinks he's untouchable? Rashford could easily become INEOS version of McGrath.
Very good post. INEOS need to stamp their authority on this new chapter and the first decisions they make in this upcoming transfer window with both incomings and outgoings will give us an idea of the direction that they're going to go.

Rashford is one of few players in our squad I think we could get a very good fee for and we wouldn't actually miss him terribly in the team considering he's detrimental to our team play. Like you say, the wage that he's on would suggest he's a world class player and a player that performs consistently at that level, but he's not.

As well as this, it would be a massive boost to our wage budget and we could start afresh with a new wage structure altogether.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,702
Very good post. INEOS need to stamp their authority on this new chapter and the first decisions they make in this upcoming transfer window with both incomings and outgoings will give us an idea of the direction that they're going to go.

Rashford is one of few players in our squad I think we could get a very good fee for and we wouldn't actually miss him terribly in the team. As well as this, it would be a massive boost to our wage budget and we could start afresh with a new wage structure altogether.
Rashford is not the worst players we've got (he's actually one of the better ones) and his goals matter especially since we lack goals. However one needs to value what he brings to the table and what he takes out of it. Rashford brings goals but nothing else. He's a senior player whose homegrown (thus ample influence there) whose lazy on the pitch and he tends to switch on and switch off according to the dressing room's mood. Its very possible that he is dictating it as well. You simply can't have a senior player on 300k a week who jogs on the pitch especially in the modern game and with so many young talented players around. What sort of influence is Rashy giving them by doing that? It might be possible if the guy happens to be a Ronaldo were his crystalline talent and ability to win you games on his own was enough to justify his laziness and his prima donna antics. Rashford is no Ronaldo.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
6,871
Rashford is not the worst players we've got (he's actually one of the better ones) and his goals matter especially since we lack goals. However one needs to value what he brings to the table and what he takes out of it. Rashford brings goals but nothing else. He's a senior player whose homegrown (thus ample influence there) whose lazy on the pitch and he tends to switch on and switch off according to the dressing room's mood. Its very possible that he is dictating it as well. You simply can't have a senior player on 300k a week who jogs on the pitch especially in the modern game and with so many young talented players around. What sort of influence is Rashy giving them by doing that? It might be possible if the guy happens to be a Ronaldo were his crystalline talent and ability to win you games on his own was enough to justify his laziness and his prima donna antics. Rashford is no Ronaldo.
When you say "one of the better ones", what do you mean exactly?