Mate this is about forgiving someone who physically abused and attempted to rape his partner, I don't think it's a weird concept in any way to not want to forgive someone for doing something like that. In fact it's the people who CAN forgive so easily who are the weird ones here, and anyone with even an ounce of decency in them would agree.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
Sorry it's not easier for you to keep up with the career of an exiled alleged rapist.
If you write to the club and convince them to end the exile, then we will have a performance thread like we do for all our non exiled players.
There may be other ways to keep track of a La Liga player than Redcafe if this thread is too inconvenient for you.
So sorry to hear that and I fully understand why you feel that way. I forgave someone who hurt my family member because they were genuinely sorry but I know it might be hard when they aren't. Forgiveness helped me and my family with the healing.JesusI seriously don't know what to say to that. My sister was in an abusive relationship and I could never forgive him for what he did to her, not in a million years. I think I'll be using that ignore button again.
Yeh I find that argument very strange, there's plenty of places to go to find out how he's doing, it's not like the cafe is the only site on the internet.
I agree decisions are made based on data at hand but the data at hand (social media posts) that were released were not a reflection of the incident. Seeing people at United have heard the full recording and pictures and concluded nothing happened, then I tend to believe them.
It's shameless grasping at straws, to in any way to push back at the consequences of MG being a scrotes. The same poster argued about the photos we saw and whether they were real or not.
The audio and the images are a large part of the data to hand. It's up to every individual to decide if theg do or don't reflect the reality of the situation.
They didn't conclude nothing happened. The language used doesn't even come close to saying that.
We haven't been shown or even told about anything else than those posts though. That's the only hard evidence we know. As to the second part, yeah, their conclusions were so airtight that he was immediately and irrevocably reintegrated into the squad.
Manchester United player. The club could (and would) have terminated his contract if they had concluded he had committed the offences that he was charged with. There would then have, obviously, been no need for a thread to keep track on him.
It’s perfectly reasonable for United fans to want to keep track on a player who we are presumably going to be looking to sell in the summer. The mods clearly think that having this one thread is preferable, just doesn’t seem the best way to deal with it to me but, of course, it’s their decision.
Even if there's more, it would be hard to unhear/see what was previously released, which is why barring the existence of an extraordinary piece of information not currently in the public domain, those who won't don't want him back aren't likely to change their minds.
At least you’re showing your hand now
Presumably you agree that they concluded that there was no attempted rape; no coercive behaviour and no assault though?
Look, I think, your standpoint is legit and you are free to have and to promote it. But you have to accept that this applies to everbody and while some people will agree with you, some will disagree and some won't even understand what your actual point is. If you have personal experience, the whole matter is surely touchy on a whole other level, I just want to remind you, that situations with fury, anger, misdeeds and redemption are part of human history forever and over the centuries, societies came up with many ways to deal with it. Again - if you don't want to forgive Greenwood, that is fine. But I don't think, it will be too helpful for yourself when you become angry at people just because they have a different viewpoint than you - because just like you, they also bring their personal connections into it. Noone can claim moral superiority and as somebody pointed out, we might be far away from having a complete picture of the situation anyway.
Lets leave it at that, just for the record, I'd probably be also less... distanced in matters where I have personal connections with.
Oh yeh that's right, I remember that, absolutely ridiculous.
He's not playing for Manchester United though, is he? Also, by the same token, the club could (and would) have reintegrated him into the squad if they were all that sure he hadn't committed the offences that he was charged with.
They concluded the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged. I tend to believe them. There is always more to the story than what’s in the media.
Yes, and they not only didn't terminate this contract - they reportedly attempted to bring him back, going through extraordinary preparations to do so before the leak..
Yeah, you don’t need a criminal conviction to dismiss someone. If they concluded that, on the balance of probabilities, he’d committed gross misconduct (or whatever contractual wording applied), then he’d have great difficulty successfully challenging any dismissal.
In my opinion they weren’t sure enough to take a legal chance. There is in fact only 2 people who know what really happened. MG and his GF. Anyone else is just taking what they say as gospel.
the fact that one of those 2 decided to release the audio and pictures to show the world “what Mason greenwood does to me” is damning. Irrelevant if she’s decided to stay with him.
regardless of talent, the lad is a rotten apple. Get him away from the squad before it spreads
I think if he did nothing he'd be playing for us. No amount of social media pressure would dissuade the club from utilising an asset if there wasn't a reason.
If the lad is 100% innocent of any abuse of that woman and the club have allowed the narrative that he isnt innocent to persist by not clarifying the situation and exiling him then they should be ashamed of themselves.
Oh I can claim moral superiority on this situation and I am. And I have no problem with people putting their view on this subject out there, even though I don't agree with it. But if you are putting that point of view on here, on a discussion forum, then you have to accept people are going to argue that point with you, which is all I'm doing. But some people in this thread don't seem to like that clearly.
That seems to have been exactly what they intended to do before the adverse publicity/backlash.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s probably an absolute scrote and I have no desire to see him back at United. The club did, somehow, get itself in a position where it was comfortable taking him back initially though.
I do think there was some degree of abuse, and quite serious too.
I'm not sure what I think about the language in their statement. It's quite odd to me.
The "attempt" to bring him back felt slightly half hearted though, almost as if the conclusions of the "investigation" were flimsy as shit and incapable of withstanding the scrutiny they would have been under had they actually bought him back.
Yep. Excruciating. It's just preferable to see the poor innocent Mason deserves a second chance etc narrative prevail.fecking ell, aren’t you boring the shite out of yourselves at this point?
Where did I say I know the whole story? I'm just drawing conclusions based on the evidence available. Like most people do in most areas of their life on a daily basis.
You seem to be confusing forgiveness with not holding people accountable for their actions. It's not up to us as a fanbase to forgive him or otherwise - we don't have that power and not should we. It's up to the person/people that he hurt with his actions to forgive him. What society as a whole should do is try to ensure that people are held accountable for their actions. Side question: do you think all violent sexual offenders deserve 'forgiveness' and not to be punished? Do you draw any sort of line or should anyone be able to do anything with no consequences as long as the victims of their actions forgive them?
Yeah, it's shamefu, tbh. I think it's a combination of wanting a good player back for the club and their personal/cultural values being totally different to those who don't want greenwood back.
Been obvious for a while what his stance on the matter is.
Why hasn't there been any attempt to clear his name by United or Greenwood himself?
Take a wild guess why an organisation who owns a very expensive asset in MG would want to put it out there that "he did not commit the offences he was originally charged with" when trying to move him on during the summer, hmmmm I wonder why?
I agree but I doubt we will see any new extraordinary evidence which might exonerate him in the eyes those who don’t won’t him back. Personally, I think him/his partner need to give some sort of interview about the case.
Yep very shameful. He replied to me and said he did actually forgive someone who did something to a family member of his
unbelievable.Why would they do that if they were confident about their findings though? Unless they weren't and knew their "investigation" was partial and cursory.
I'm sure he came into the thread in good faith though, expecting to see some performance talk even though he didn't play yesterday (5th yellow suspension).
In my opinion, this is quite important. We have had a few posters in this thread posting from countries where women's rights are really poorly represented and rape convictions are very low. Some posters are posting from regions where marital rape is not a crime.
While that doesn't necessarily dictate what an individual thinks or says, I know from experience it does have an effect. Here in Ireland there is a huge generational divide as we only actually made marital rape illegal in 1990.
And I believe there is a correlation bewrween that and the attitude to rape in general.
Obviously, to avoid the needlessly distracting issue from derailing the early part of the new season.
Obviously indeed
The scenario you mentioned is logically not impossible but I find it hard to believe an institution like United would lie on this serious issue in order to protect the value of a very expensive asset in MG as you put it.
Wow I wasn’t aware of that. It’s still so recent
Really? Basically a business, with the glazers in charge, you really think they wouldn't lie? That's very naive mate.