Mason Mount's Misfortune

[LuckyScout78]

In other thread i argue Mason Mount is not a natural cm player. Mount is a natural nr.8. More of Lampard type of player

Gerrard = best to build up and set the tempo

Scholes = the complete CM

Lampard = The offensive goalmachine CM


Mason Mount is definitely not a Gerrard and Scholes cm type of player

He will take time to adapt--------> to become a natural cm playmaker.

And Casemiro is not a cm playmaker too


Why United struggling against Wolves.

United annd Ten Hag needs a CDM top world class playmaker/nr6 playmaker

 

[tjb]

This thread and others just shows how impatient fans are here. It's a change in system and a change in personnel. Personally, I don't think preseason actually helped us this year. We didn't get much time with the starting midfield trio playing. Most importantly, Onana coming in later with his new style also presented an issue. In fact, more than Mount, I think our team trying to adapt to Onana and how we can play with him slowed us down in the build up. It was clearly a tactical issue on Monday, but some posters who were already uncertain about Mount used the Wolves game as evidence of what they believed prior. The team hasn't even had the chance to adapt, but they'd scrap the system and change players and complain about other teams modernizing whilst we don't without actually giving it a chance.

 

[UsualSuspect]

I like Mount, but unless we end up dropping Bruno or one of them is playing out wide, he is only going to end up on the bench.

As always we are rushing to judge players on one game. I shall reserve judgement after at least half a dozen games.

Well, there in lies the rub. As I mentioned before the signing was completed, you're signing a player who shouldn't be starting for a top 4 contender. But apparently his status as 2-time player of the season was all anyone had ringing in their head.

As I mentioned, he's a good asset - works hard off the ball, tactically flexible, trains well etc. But ultimately, even after statpadding against the likes of Luton and Sheffield Utd, you'll want more. Whether ETH can extract that from him in the long term is the question, but never thought you'd get that now. And it will boil down to eventually half the fanbase wanting him out of the starting XI, but at Chelsea he at least had loyalty from some quarters being a Cobham grad -so will be interesting to see how many continue to back him.

 

[Still Going…]

If Antony doesn’t progress soon, I’d put Mount on the right. He gives all Antony’s pressing work but has better delivery. I do not want to see Mount and Bruno as number 8s.

It’s a pity the recruitment is still so poor. Our players just never fit together in their best positions. £140+ million on Antony and Mount is abysmal…

 

[Abraxas]

He definitely doesn't have instincts as a CM. It could be instructional as well. Possibly ETH wants him holding very high positions all the time. It's probable.

But still, players that are more natural in deeper positions know when to drop in and help their teammates out. Mount is always looking for the pockets of space. Which is probably why he was good for that season at Chelsea getting great numbers as that's his instinct.

So it's all quite strange that it was seemingly one of our biggest priorities. If anything, it seems like an opportunity you would take at the end of the window if you've got some money hanging around and he suddenly became available. He's a good player at a good age and all that. Just very odd profile wise as a big priority.

Feels like ETH needs to kind of reinvent him to get him functioning well in this setup, otherwise we will be waiting for Bruno to need a rest to get the best out of him. Which kind of begs the question again of why we didn't just go for somebody more suitable as an 8 to offer a more balanced look.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Which games where they?

Vs Leeds - we played our reserves and back ups, Mount played first half and we had 60% possession.
Vs Lyon - Just like leeds we played reserves and back ups, Mount played first half and we had 62% possession
Vs Arsenal - It wasn't our first 11, missed Rashford, Casemiro. Almost first 11. Mount played first half and we had 53% possession
Vs Wrexham - None of our first team played
Vs Madrid - Almost our first 11, we had more possession in both halves.
Vs Dortmund - Our back up team played that game, still we had 65% possession.
Vs Lens - Our first 11 played that game. We had 71% possession in the first half, overall 63%.

There wasn't a single game where we averaged less possession than opponents and our first 11 played vs Lens, 60 mins vs Madrid and 45 mins vs Arsenal.

Nice to see someone who isn’t just indulging in demonising the signing. It may or may not work out but it’s so strange to see people having made their minds so soon about him as a player and his fit in our team. If ETH really is trying something that one wouldn’t normally expect to work then at least give it some time to gel and work / fail.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He definitely doesn't have instincts as a CM. It could be instructional as well. Possibly ETH wants him holding very high positions all the time. It's probable.

But still, players that are more natural in deeper positions know when to drop in and help their teammates out. Mount is always looking for the pockets of space. Which is probably why he was good for that season at Chelsea getting great numbers as that's his instinct.

So it's all quite strange that it was seemingly one of our biggest priorities. If anything, it seems like an opportunity you would take at the end of the window if you've got some money hanging around and he suddenly became available. He's a good player at a good age and all that. Just very odd profile wise as a big priority.

Feels like ETH needs to kind of reinvent him to get him functioning well in this setup, otherwise we will be waiting for Bruno to need a rest to get the best out of him. Which kind of begs the question again of why we didn't just go for somebody more suitable as an 8 to offer a more balanced look.

There’s a few things he probably really likes about Mount which are tactically useful - he presses brilliantly, he is usually excellent on the turn, he is reliable and intelligent on the ball, good in transitions, good long passer (I think?) and gets you goals/ assists.

On the flip side, he plays like an attacking midfielder who drifts in and out of games and lacks a bit of physical / individual spark.

I imagine ETH really loves his strengths and feels he can be somewhat like our Wijnandum type player who is an all round quality footballer who helps the system tick. While I agree that he need to be more of a midfielder (show for passes, get on the ball, take responsibility for initiating not just being a cog) but I think there’s no little leeway being given.

 

[captaincantona]

The thing about Mount is that when you pay €60million for a player you should know EXACTLY how to use him and get the best out of him. It’s shouldn’t be an experiment or a hunch or to see how he would fit. It’s the Sancho thing - get a player with good attributes and see if he fits. It’s mental.

Mount has never played in the role he is playing now, nor has Bruno - this weird dual 10 where neither seems to be grabbing the game by the throat. Now we have McT, DVB, Sancho, Mount, with no idea how to get the best out of them. We know how to get the best out of Bruno and yet seem intent on using him elsewhere to fit other players in the team.

It’s a confusing time and really after that many pre season games, there is no excuse for not hitting the ground running. Praying wolves was just another slow start but it just looked very similar to the scrappy wins of the last 6 months. Would have hoped to see a distinct improvement in how we take control of games by now. Still a “hit them on the break” side at the moment.

 

[astracrazy]

The thing I don't quiet understand is, Mount was apparently won over by the conversation he had with EtH - how he would be used, why he wanted him etc etc.

Yet not once, since the start of friendlies to now, does it look like EtH has any idea how to use him. I'm beginning to wonder if he was signed because EtH was also expecting another player to come in that hasn't happened yet or now won't, which is why it's not working.

 

[NLunited]

The thing I don't quiet understand is, Mount was apparently won over by the conversation he had with EtH - how he would be used, why he wanted him etc etc.

Yet not once, since the start of friendlies to now, does it look like EtH has any idea how to use him. I'm beginning to wonder if he was signed because EtH was also expecting another player to come in that hasn't happened yet or now won't, which is why it's not working.

It‘s clear how he plans to use him isn‘t it? As a high-pressing 8/10.

We made too many mistakes against Wolves, making them stronger. We lost the ball easily and let them outmuscle us.

 

[captaincantona]

It‘s clear how he plans to use him isn‘t it? As a high-pressing 8/10.

We made too many mistakes against Wolves, making them stronger. We lost the ball easily and let them outmuscle us.

Exactly - of our front 5…Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford and Mount just got swatted off the ball with ease. Only Antony seems capable of holding onto the ball but that’s because his first instinct is to stop play and look inside or backwards.

Our subs, Pellistri and Sancho looked equally as soft - So how does a Mount type player fit into an already extremely lightweight frontline?

I agree with @astracrazy, there must have been a second part to that puzzle that ETH is now snookered on because the deadwood won’t leave.

 

[My only Eric]

Can someone please tell me what sort of midfielder he is
because I don’t see it

 

[redIndianDevil]

I find it weird that over the last 3 years we've had a terribly inconsistent midfield. We have games where we're good even with McFred, games where we're good even with Fred/Pogba or Mctominay/Pogba now we've had games where we're good with Casemiro/Eriksen and it will be the same with Mount/Casemiro.

The only constant in all those midfields is the reason we're so inconsistent. When Bruno decides to choose ball retention over hero ball we're half decent. Whenever he chooses bloody hero ball we get the piss taken out of us.

I also find it weird how every other midfielder has been blamed and will continue to be blamed while the one constant seems to just get away with it....

I saw people blame Casemiro for yesterday's midfield performance, he's a world class player not a superhero, people think Rodri could've stopped the onslaught of 4-5 on the break when Bruno gets bullied off the ball outside the opponents box.

The thing is that of all those midfielders Bruno is the only one creating actual chances. For all his faults, he is the one who created the one clear goal scoring chance.

 

[astracrazy]

It‘s clear how he plans to use him isn‘t it? As a high-pressing 8/10.

We made too many mistakes against Wolves, making them stronger. We lost the ball easily and let them outmuscle us.

It's not clear how that all fits in with our system which is what I mean.

It wasn't just Wolves, it was the same against Lens - especially the first half.

 

[redIndianDevil]

There’s a few things he probably really likes about Mount which are tactically useful - he presses brilliantly, he is usually excellent on the turn, he is reliable and intelligent on the ball, good in transitions, good long passer (I think?) and gets you goals/ assists.

On the flip side, he plays like an attacking midfielder who drifts in and out of games and lacks a bit of physical / individual spark.

I imagine ETH really loves his strengths and feels he can be somewhat like our Wijnandum type player who is an all round quality footballer who helps the system tick. While I agree that he need to be more of a midfielder (show for passes, get on the ball, take responsibility for initiating not just being a cog) but I think there’s no little leeway being given.

Which is only good if the entire team is good at pressing. He can run run and run like Forrest Gump but is pretty much useless in our setup.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Which is only good if the entire team is good at pressing. He can run run and run like Forrest Gump but is pretty much useless in our setup.

Our pressing has improved a lot since the start of last season and will continue to improve with training and the addition of Mount and Hojlund.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Our pressing has improved a lot since the start of last season and will continue to improve with training and the addition of Mount and Hojlund.

I have no hopes on that anymore. It should have happened already. I'm expecting same as last year. My only hope for this year is Hojlund and Onana coming good, at least that would sort two positions for sometime.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I have no hopes on that anymore. It should have happened already. I'm expecting same as last year. My only hope for this year is Hojlund and Onana coming good, at least that would sort two positions for sometime.

It’s already happened. Our pressing has gotten better.

 

[Devil You Know]

EtH messed up tactically on Monday. It wasn't a performance you can use to judge anybody in the team.

 

[mancan92]

Nice to see someone who isn’t just indulging in demonising the signing. It may or may not work out but it’s so strange to see people having made their minds so soon about him as a player and his fit in our team. If ETH really is trying something that one wouldn’t normally expect to work then at least give it some time to gel and work / fail.

Come on we have all watched mount for years. It's not like he is coming from a different league or is an unknown. Everyone knows him by now. It's not a surprise he doesn't work

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Can someone please tell me what sort of midfielder he is
because I don’t see it

Looks like a 10 to me, exactly the same position as Bruno, which is why to me, it was s a strange signing.

 

[jesperjaap]

He definitely doesn't have instincts as a CM. It could be instructional as well. Possibly ETH wants him holding very high positions all the time. It's probable.

But still, players that are more natural in deeper positions know when to drop in and help their teammates out. Mount is always looking for the pockets of space. Which is probably why he was good for that season at Chelsea getting great numbers as that's his instinct.

So it's all quite strange that it was seemingly one of our biggest priorities. If anything, it seems like an opportunity you would take at the end of the window if you've got some money hanging around and he suddenly became available. He's a good player at a good age and all that. Just very odd profile wise as a big priority.

Feels like ETH needs to kind of reinvent him to get him functioning well in this setup, otherwise we will be waiting for Bruno to need a rest to get the best out of him. Which kind of begs the question again of why we didn't just go for somebody more suitable as an 8 to offer a more balanced look.

Completely agree and looks like he is instructed to playu that way from the first game. I dont think it will suit us especially when we have talented players like Fernandes and Rashford.....that do however give the ball away a lot, we will get caught and exposed.

Will be interesting to see how he is developed by Ten Hag, but though only one game, it appears to be in a way I feared and didnt understand, which would be bad purchasing rather than a bad player, as he isnt like you say, is a good one

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Looks like a 10 to me, exactly the same position as Bruno, which is why to me, it was s a strange signing.

Yes that’s spot on, similar to Bruno albeit not as good obviously

 

[NLunited]

EtH messed up tactically on Monday. It wasn't a performance you can use to judge anybody in the team.

How is turning over the ball 81 times Ten Hag‘s fault? Nah this one was on the players

 

[redIndianDevil]

It’s already happened. Our pressing has gotten better.

Not really IMO. We have just added a few more hardworking players - Antony, Mount etc. Rashford, Sancho still don't meaningfully press. The backline is still unsure of pressing high. It's all disjointed still at least that's what I see especially when compared to Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Brighton, Newcastle.

 

[redIndianDevil]

How is turning over the ball 81 times Ten Hag‘s fault? Nah this one was on the players

Rashford is always going to lose possession. Bruno the same as well. Garnacho again is very young and very raw. So it's not like we have a completely new 11.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Come on we have all watched mount for years. It's not like he is coming from a different league or is an unknown. Everyone knows him by now. It's not a surprise he doesn't work

He’s 24 and has already won poty twice at a big club. Him being a success here or adapting to our system should also not surprise anyone.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Doesn’t he seem a bit more stiff in his movement compared to 2-3 years ago?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

How is turning over the ball 81 times Ten Hag‘s fault? Nah this one was on the players

No its not. We were set up with just Casemiro as a 6, Wolves kept walking through our midfield for 90 minutes, thats on ETH.

 

[NLunited]

No its not. We were set up with just Casemiro as a 6, Wolves kept walking through our midfield for 90 minutes, thats on ETH.

No it isn‘t. They aren‘t countering us if we don‘t give the ball away in the first place.

And, Casemiro‘s positioning was off, he looked slow as a snail.

You are going to have to get used to it: we will be playing with a single dm.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

No it isn‘t. They aren‘t countering us if we don‘t give the ball away in the first place.

And, Casemiro‘s positioning was off, he looked slow as a snail.

You are going to have to get used to it: we will be playing with a single dm.

They weren't countering, counter means we were in attack and lost the ball, they were walking through our midfield all the time straight from their goalie they had 4 midfielders most of the time against our 3, ETH got it wrong, there is nothing wrong with admitting that.

 

[mancan92]

He’s 24 and has already won poty twice at a big club. Him being a success here or adapting to our system should also not surprise anyone.

Yes but he was good in a position that we are not playing him in. In the current setup it's expected for him to play this way. As soon as he is played in a way that makes sense of his abilities then sure can work.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I've said my piece when the transfer was on-going and during pre-season and nothing has really changed that since.

On the one hand, I've been quietly impressed with his technique, tenacity and general all around ability, which I do think has been a little under appreciated. However, as a lot of people have noticed it's not necessarily his individual skillset, it's two other things 1) he's not on the ball enough to show that and 2) the positions he takes. Both of which are a problem relating to him but more worrying is down to the team and ETH.

Yes it's only one competitive game but it's a deeper issue we have all seen since last season. It goes against my gut instinct but I'm going to have to give more patience to Mount and ETH. Otherwise the reality is too bleak.

 

[lex talionis]

For me, it's a pretty straightforward assessment. Either Bruno or Mount needs to play in a deeper role. Bruno has better long passing range -- no slag on Mount, just making an observation -- and I'd like to see Bruno play deeper and Mount higher up the pitch. But if I have it all wrong, then Mount deeper and Bruno supporting the front line.

But five up front isn't going to work.

 

[RedChisel]

An expensive square peg in a round hole that has eaten up a good chunk of our transfer budget. One of ETH's stranger decisions.

 

[NLunited]

They weren't countering, counter means we were in attack and lost the ball, they were walking through our midfield all the time straight from their goalie they had 4 midfielders most of the time against our 3, ETH got it wrong, there is nothing wrong with admitting that.

That’s nonsense, we did lose the ball often and got countered. We turned over the ball 81 times.

They did not ‚walk through us’ because of bad tactics, but because of poor execution. We were pressing high, making it hard for them to play through us. Where we failed was in individual duels which we lost unnecessarily, leaving us exposed because we were in a high press.

You don‘t agree with the high press sounds like, it is high risk high reward, which means mistakes are costly.

 

[3vra]

For me the last couple of seasons whenever i have seen him play he was just vdb with more running, he just keeps doubling up every other player and he hides from the ball, i have not seen 30 seconds of highlight from all those matches with us that would be even good, the fact he got 7 still pisses me off, i just wished i wake up, and us signing him was just a bad dream, i do not see a player in here, Eriksen playing there is 10 times player Mount is. VDB was more impressive during that preseason then that guy. Last time i was so pissed at the transfer was when we bought Alan fckin Smith. I was pissed of watching him play for England and wondering why Southgate would even include him in his squad. I do not believe we bought that guy.

 

[Syphon Wallet]

Thought he was average with no clear role at Chelsea.
Nothing has changed so far.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

That’s nonsense, we did lose the ball often and got countered. We turned over the ball 81 times.

They did not ‚walk through us’ because of bad tactics, but because of poor execution. We were pressing high, making it hard for them to play through us. Where we failed was in individual duels which we lost unnecessarily, leaving us exposed because we were in a high press.

You don‘t agree with the high press sounds like, it is high risk high reward, which means mistakes are costly.

That's your opinion, and I can't agree with it.

 

[MichaelRed]

People need to relax a little. Half of you would have sold Evra & Vidic before sacking SAF after their debuts.