Mata and Matic's Chelsea careers

Luke1995

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
3,495
Am I the only one who sees two totally different players at Manchester United than what they showed at Chelsea ?

Just wondering why Chelsea did bussiness with United and what kind of role they could have had there if never sold.

Also would be good to know what Chelsea fans think, about selling them and the difference in their skill/performance overall from then to now
 
With Mata yes, I certainly expected more throughout. At Chelsea he was a counter-attacking player, people used to associate him with being a quick player but in terms of overall influence in a game he was a shadow of the player he was. I'll never understand how he played most of his career on the right wing for us - partly to do with deluded managers such as Moyes and Van Gaal that were too busy keeping Rooney happy.

Matic was coming to us at an age where he didn't have long to give what he was capable of. Saw that one coming but he's still been fairly useful despite his decline.
 
Matic has been fairly decent and in fact has been unfairly criticized by our fans.

Mata is a strange one. I feel change of managers didn't help him. He was pretty decent during moyes time. It was clear van gaal never fancied him and he was being played all over the place. Less said about Jose the better. I wish we had someone like Ancelotti, he would have been used better. Still I don't think Mata has been bad. He has made a fair share of contribution for this club. A great servant for us.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
With Mata yes, I certainly expected more throughout. At Chelsea he was a counter-attacking player, people used to associate him with being a quick player but in terms of overall influence in a game he was a shadow of the player he was. I'll never understand how he played most of his career on the right wing for us - partly to do with deluded managers such as Moyes and Van Gaal that were too busy keeping Rooney happy.

Matic was coming to us at an age where he didn't have long to give what he was capable of. Saw that one coming but he's still been fairly useful despite his decline.
Click to expand...

He played on the right a lot for Chelsea too. Starting position is a bit of a red herring for me - I don't think that matters as much. Mata's had the same problem, pretty much every 'creative' player has had at Utd, which is the lack of movement, options and creativity around them.

We've been playing football from the 90s/00s where you let a couple of players attack/create off their own back, while everyone else around us is attacking with entire units moving in synergy, working space and creating channels to play balls in. And that's why we've constantly struggled to create chances and score goals.
 
This may also be a good place to ask how were Mata and Matic viewed as youth prospects before their careers really took off, although not sure if there are any experts on them over here

I do remember Mata being talked about as one with a bright future while at Valencia, but know little about Matic before Chelsea.

Abramovich has always done good bussiness, getting young players despite the failings with the big names like Shevchenko and Torres. He basically discovered Drogba, Essien, Mikel, and so on...
 
Everything we've seen from Matic was there at Chelsea, both good and bad. The only question was what ratio of good to bad we'd get.

In Mata's case it is much less about him being a different player and much more about him being in a different environment. We were floundering when we signed him and didn't seem to have all that clear idea of what sort of team we wanted. Which really set the tone for much of his United career as he often looked a square peg in a round hole under very different managers, who often seemed torn between making use of one of their most technically gifted players and having to crowbar in someone who didn't really fit their ideal set up or style. The fact that he was so productive during much of that time (largely matching his Chelsea numbers in terms of goals/assists across his initial several seasons here) and managed to last seven seasons in less than ideal circumstances shows that the quality was always there. He just never quite fit while he was at his peak.

Ironically his subsequent decline in quality has allowed him to find a role that suits him perfectly, as an experienced and technically accomplished squad player perfect for use in certain types of games.
 
Matic has been exactly as I thought he would, realiable player on the decline. Has been fairly good for the amount paid.

Mata is a serious disappointment, he was bought for 45M back there in 2013-2014 when that was a lot of money, still on his best years and through all this years he hasnt been able to nail down a place on our starting eleven, considering how shit our teams have been I think that speaks for itself.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
With Mata yes, I certainly expected more throughout. At Chelsea he was a counter-attacking player, people used to associate him with being a quick player but in terms of overall influence in a game he was a shadow of the player he was. I'll never understand how he played most of his career on the right wing for us - partly to do with deluded managers such as Moyes and Van Gaal that were too busy keeping Rooney happy.

Matic was coming to us at an age where he didn't have long to give what he was capable of. Saw that one coming but he's still been fairly useful despite his decline.
Click to expand...

A key point here; I don't think he was ever actually a quick player, he just looked quicker in that Chelsea set up because their style of play suited him more. Somewhat similarly, I don't think it's a coincidence that the introduction of Fernandes into this United side seemed to bring out more from Mata too. It makes sense to me that a player with Mata's very obvious strengths and weaknesses would be particularly dependent on being in a team that suits him.
 
Luke1995 said:
Just wondering why Chelsea did bussiness with United and what kind of role they could have had there if never sold.
Click to expand...

Smart business re Mata. I think Chelsea did the 14/15 title on a small net spend and I remember reading selling Mata and ors (think Lukaku went for 30 odd million too) would free up funds to reinvest. Diego Costa was bought for £32m and was a big part of two titles so they did better than us out of that transaction.

On paper, selling an ageing Matić for 40m and replacing him with Bakayoko who was in that Monaco team making the CL semi finals 3 months earlier seemed to be good business but it didn’t work out.
 
sullydnl said:
A key point here; I don't think he was ever actually a quick player, he just looked quicker in that Chelsea set up because their style of play suited him more. Somewhat similarly, I don't think it's a coincidence that the introduction of Fernandes into this United side seemed to bring out more from Mata too. It makes sense to me that a player with Mata's very obvious strengths and weaknesses would be particularly dependent on being in a team that suits him.
Click to expand...

Yeah mata relies on speed of thought. That requires good players like hazard, Oscar, fernandes. Hell even Di maria and Sanchez had good moments with mata. You can tell he struggles with lingard and Pereira as they can't think quick enough and then mata looks lost because he has no pace or strength.
 
At the time of Matic's signing for United, most of us were in disbelief, like '''Why the hell are they giving him to us ?''

I remember feeling weird at the time. Totally unexpected bussiness, that one.
 
Mata - Was great for them. Set pieces were world class.

Matic - Important player in their two premier league title wins. They declined when he left.
 
Mata was very efficient in his first couple of seasons here, he racked up a nice number of goals and assists without playing extremely well. But recently he seems to have declined a lot in terms of influence on the game and creativity.
I don't even want to mention physicality as he was never a fast nor strong player. It is weird that he cannot play some good passes as often as he used to, I only remember his assist for Rashford from this season.
He also was a good poacher with good sense of positioning in the box and finishing off chances, he lost that too a while ago... Seems like a shadow of a shadow of a player he used to be which is sad as he's such a lovable guy.
 
mata was played further forward and trusted in his best position at chelsea. He's had some good moments here and hes obviously a model pro and a good example to our young lads. Beyond that he's on a bit of resurgence since Bruno has come in but in general hes mostly just been ok, frustratingly slow and weak on the right wing and not really trusted at #10 in a decent united team. I think its yet another example of us buying a system player and it not quite working out here. He was borderline world class at Chelsea and he was never that here. Class footballer who didn't quite fit in.

Matic was seen as a shorter term fix and he's played in a pretty important role in the first 11 over the last few years compared to matas diminishing importance. Matic has been a solid signing in a team that didnt do much by uniteds high standards but he can still be a very solid squad player. id love it if we could get camavinga and get the last legs out of matic. its set up perfect for a great kid to come in and eventually take over in a very important position.
 
Last edited:
Both have been two of our better signings since Fergie left. I know it’s not saying much but I’d say they were worth signing.
 
Mata has been a terrible signing for United. He was a big signing at the time, similar to how Fernandes came in the Jan window. He's had a few good moments over a 6 year span, nowhere near good enough.

Touted as a creative player, never really seen him produce a defence splitting pass or an intelligent ball. Too slow, too weak and can't beat a man. Good at free kicks granted.
 
When Mata first signed for us he ironically had almost a mirror instant impact to what Bruno has had at United, we were a team that struggled to create chances and his arrival suddenly made us look a lot better. We were heavily reliant on him almost immediately something AVB quickly realised because as soon as we got comfortable leads in a game he was off to preserve his energy.

The first half of 12/13 was his absolute peak, I'd go as far as saying he was top 3 in the league at that point. Since then both at Chelsea and United he has never hit those heights (if he did you wouldn't have needed to sign Bruno) but a player of his natural talent will always have some use to a side.
 
Luke1995 said:
He basically discovered Drogba, Essien, Mikel, and so on...
Click to expand...

Could argue Mikel was already discovered by us having signed for us before them.

I hoped Mata would save us in 2013/2014. Didnt quite work out but he has been a great buy for us with some crucial goals.
 
I'd argue Matic has been better for us than he was for Chelsea, bar the few dark months at the end of Mourinho's tenure he's mostly been very good for us

Mata has never hit his Chelsea peak with us
 
Luke1995 said:
This may also be a good place to ask how were Mata and Matic viewed as youth prospects before their careers really took off, although not sure if there are any experts on them over here

I do remember Mata being talked about as one with a bright future while at Valencia, but know little about Matic before Chelsea.

Abramovich has always done good bussiness, getting young players despite the failings with the big names like Shevchenko and Torres. He basically discovered Drogba, Essien, Mikel, and so on...
Click to expand...

:eek:

Both were well known talents in France. Especially Essien who was already operating at a world class level, or very close to it and was wanted by a whole host of clubs in Europe at the time. It's kind of like saying Barcelona discovered Neymar or PSG discovered Mbappe. Chelsea paid close to British record fees for Drogba and Essien.
 
Moyes didnt particulary even want Mata, it was Fergie/Gill behind it as a save our season signing
 
Robertd0803 said:
Could argue Mikel was already discovered by us having signed for us before them.

I hoped Mata would save us in 2013/2014. Didnt quite work out but he has been a great buy for us with some crucial goals.
Click to expand...

forgive me if I’m wrong but I think Kenyon moving to Chelsea allowed them insider knowledge of our deals with Robben and Mikel and they simply offered more money to both players. Drogba and Essien were great signings. I believe we were strongly in for essien at one point before he moved to Chelsea. Those are the types signings that have really dominated. Players in their early to mid 20s on the cusp of their peak years coming into the league and making the step up. Mata, Aguero, Silva, KDB 2.0, Essien, Drogba, Eriksen, Laporte, Kante, DDG, Pogba 2.0 etc
 
There’s a reason why Chelsea wanted to sell, unfortunately we had Ed & Moyes who wanted a panic buy and Jose has a hardon for Matic and they took the bait
 
Mata surprised me, but he was a good player not a world beater. Looking back we couldn't expect him to perform when the rest of our team was so poor at the time. It would have been totally different if he was arriving into a functioning team.

Matic we got what we bought - a good player on the decline. His resurgence this season has centred on us realising he can't cover ground like he used to but other attributes are still there.
 
11101 said:
Mata surprised me, but he was a good player not a world beater. Looking back we couldn't expect him to perform when the rest of our team was so poor at the time.
Click to expand...
That was exactly what he did for us when he first arrived, he shone like a star in an otherwise stagnant side.

At the time I thought he would have dragged you over the line to 4th after signing.
 
Mata and Matic are players who in their prime, would have easily been top 4 material about 6 or 7 years ago.

But the way the game has developed, where forwards need to have electric pace today, and central midfielders need to be dynamic, creative and skillful, then a Mata and Matic in their prime would struggle to be top 4 material if in their prime today, and may be closer to Everton level.

Same goes for Jose Mourinho as a manager. He hasn't evolved at all as a manager and has gotten left behind. He doesn't have the balls to develop kids. The first thing he does at Spurs is bring Eric Dier back into midfield, and suddenly watching Spurs becomes like watching paint dry.

But Matic for me has been a much more consistent player than Mata. Mata can be breathtaking on his day, but his day only comes 3 times a season. Matic fits into the category of 'Solid limited squad player, with a good mentality who more often than not won't let you down', similar to Nicky Butt, Phil Neville, or John O' Shea. Mata is a great human being though and his type of character is a big positive for any dressing room to have.
 
Dancfc said:
That was exactly what he did for us when he first arrived, he shone like a star in an otherwise stagnant side.

At the time I thought he would have dragged you over the line to 4th after signing.
Click to expand...

You obviously didn't account for The Chosen One.

BTKXKbECQAAZrnY
 
WeePat said:
:eek:

Both were well known talents in France. Especially Essien who was already operating at a world class level, or very close to it and was wanted by a whole host of clubs in Europe at the time. It's kind of like saying Barcelona discovered Neymar or PSG discovered Mbappe. Chelsea paid close to British record fees for Drogba and Essien.
Click to expand...

Maybe they didn't discover, but they gave them the structure to reach worldwide fame
 
Robertd0803 said:
Could argue Mikel was already discovered by us having signed for us before them.

I hoped Mata would save us in 2013/2014. Didnt quite work out but he has been a great buy for us with some crucial goals.
Click to expand...

Why Fergie didn't offer him a contract ?
 
Matic has been solid for us. Not his fault he got played week in week out and got played into the ground consistently. It's not a surprise he's had a bit of a renaissance lately after being in and out of the team.

The Mata of Chelsea and United are two different players. 19 goals 35 assists for Chelsea in 12/13. His best for us is 10 goals 11 assists in 15/16.
 
His last season for Chelsea was phenomenal and he was easily my favourite non United player in the league.
I was rarely so excited about a signing.

For me personally Matas United career is a huge disappointment. It seems like he declined the minute he joined us.

People defend him because he is such a class guy and had a handful good games for us but the fact he is still at the club in 2020 as one of the top earners absolutely baffles me
 
Am I the only one that thinks Mata isn't all that popular "top player" idea as he was claimed to be in Chelsea... I think he's the same Mata when he's there and when he joined us. The only crucial differences that makes him appear better are the highlights, overall stats and teammates at Chelsea. Mata is always the type of player that needs teammates that are mobile, good off-the-ball and intelligent movements players, which he doesn't have much at United. Martial, Herrera, Di Maria and Blind are arguably the closest he gets. He still showcase that playmaking, intelligence and creative plays plenty enough here but not at a consistent basis like at Chelsea. He's a limited player. Chelsea doesn't miss him at all isn't it.

Matic's already declined in Chelsea's two last season. We get what we get. He's still good but manager need to manage his fitness, don't play him all games as Mou mistakenly did.
 
Based Adnan said:
Matic has been solid for us. Not his fault he got played week in week out and got played into the ground consistently. It's not a surprise he's had a bit of a renaissance lately after being in and out of the team.

The Mata of Chelsea and United are two different players. 19 goals 35 assists for Chelsea in 12/13. His best for us is 10 goals 11 assists in 15/16.
Click to expand...
35 assists?!
 
Juan Mata will be remembered for doing great things in terms of his attitude and salary initiative but I am sure he will have a lot of footballing regrets. He should have had a far better career.
 
SilentWitness said:
Juan Mata will be remembered for doing great things in terms of his attitude and salary initiative but I am sure he will have a lot of footballing regrets. He should have had a far better career.
Click to expand...

Not winning the PL will be a regret I'm sure but he does have world cup, european championship, champions league and europa league medals to look back on, along with a few domestic cup triumphs. He seems like someone with enough perspective to know that all of that plus a life-changing amount of money is a pretty good return from a football career. I doubt he'll be overburdened by regret.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.