Clearly... Mané, Gravenberch, Mazraoui, de Ligt.
Matthijs De Ligt
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As the old saying goes: Bundesliga is where the heart is.
We all know the Dutch are basically budget Germans, so makes sense
I want to agree but considering we paid similar for Harry Mr. England Maguire
That's actually a very good point.
I get what you're saying and when you think about it, Ajax held all the cards with our transfer (hence the higher fee than what he's probably worth) and Juve did seem like they had to sell.
But when you look at the figures for both transfers and you compare the players, and I think De Ligt is the better player, we definitely overpaid again
De Ligt already is one of the better defenders out there. Much more experienced and proven compared to Martinez so not sure what is overhyped about him to be fair? He did all that Martinez has done in Holland, much younger also then he went to Italy and become champion again. What has Martinez achieved or demonstrated compared to De Ligt for example?
Martinez was also second option to Timber, which does actually demonstrates who he prefers. LVG was also an idiot who sold Evans and Keane to play McNair and Blackett, brought Marcos Rojo and bored the living shit out of most of us.
By most accounts both us and Bayern overspent, however time will tell and result will be there to show who did right. I hope you are right and I am wrong, sincerely.
De Ligt played as a CB at 17 was it for Ajax? And he did it with relative ease if I am not mistaken, in a team not as well drilled as the ETH one. Played in a European Final, captained Ajax side in the CL and scoring a goal in the knock out games if I am not mistaken and all that at what 20?
He was hyped for a reason, and in my opinion showed more potential even in the Dutch league compared to someone like Martinez. Aura and style of play is to me very important for a CB, and this kid has it all.
It is okay to overspend (de Ligt), when you save money elsewhere (Mazraoui) or get more money than makes sense (Lewandowski).
Sure, Not disagreeing with us overpaying but my point is the same applied to Bayern overpaying De Ligt in response to the poster's post.
While City are competitive each year it’s not quite the same.
Last 10 years
Bayern:
- Bundesliga 10/10
- DFB Pokal 5/10
- CL 2 wins, 4 semis, 3 QFs, 1 last 16
City:
- PL 5/10
- FA Cup 1/10
- CL 1 Final, 2 semis, 3 QFs, 3 last 16 and 1 group exit
Bayern are arguably the most successful team in Europe these last 10 years, and it doesn’t look like it will end any time soon.
I don’t think he’s been anymore underwhelming at Juve than FDJ at Barca, both signings to be excited by for Utd and Bayern
From one boring club to another
Primed to join us when he's 30/31 and clearly past his prime with recurring injuries 
Fair point. The same could be said of us with Eriksen on a free and Malacia with low fee therefore Lisandro overspent.
Yep, once Bayern get a decade out of him and the best part of his career, he will join the PL 'for a new experience'. Probably us, as we will be desperate and throw money at him.Primed to join us when he's 30/31 and clearly past his prime with recurring injuries
Moved to Juve for 85M
Moved to Bayern for 80M
He is only 22 and cost buying clubs 165M
I bet by the time he is 28 or 29, he might make another big move to the PL or Madrid/Barca
Moved to Bayern for 80M
He is only 22 and cost buying clubs 165M
I bet by the time he is 28 or 29, he might make another big move to the PL or Madrid/Barca
Still nothing compared to Lukaku.
At the same age, Lukaku just joined Chelsea for €15m.
Oh yeah, Lukaku is on another level, luckily we recouped most of what we paid, Inter made a profit on him, but Chelsea though are not gonna see more than half the return of 100M investment they made on Lukaku if they are lucky to find a buyer for him.
De Ligt is one of the best in the world for his age group but football isn't always linear like that. Plenty of players start out well at a young age and can still fizzle out.
I don't think de Ligt will fizzle out but I think his reputation and young age means he gets away with some things more experienced players simply wouldn't. I've seen him have some calamities for both Netherlands and Juventus that somebody like Maguire would be crucified for.
I'm not saying Martinez is a better talent either. De Ligt has obviously achieved more in his career at a younger age, but Martinez possesses individual qualities that are probably more important to us than what de Ligt could offer.
Varane is one of the most decorated defenders in the game and signing him didn't translate all that well last season. Names aren't always the answer, and one thing I think ten Hag is pretty good at doing is identifying how to make a system work.
Van Gaal did do those things, but he also eventually settled on Blind, who formed the best CB partnership we've had since Ferguson retired. Martinez has a lot of similar traits to Blind so I'm prepared to trust ten Hag on this one.
That has been their strategy in days past, but not so much in the last decade. While they still sign some players from other Bundesliga clubs, the majority of their important transfers have been international players. While Hoeneß was DoF/CEO he wanted to basically sign the German national team, but in a way Bayern outgrew the league and can't afford to limit themselves to it. Hoovering up BL talents is more happening in Dortmund now, in case of Süle even signing someone from Bayern (de Ligt is more or less his replacement and Bayern surely consider him to be an upgrade)
De Ligt is one of the best in the world not only in his age group. As I said he is playing in a very mediocre Juventus side, and Id o think he was one of their best players last season. VVD makes mistakes, as did Vidic, probably Martinez too, and will make mistakes for us which is expected. I don't think it's the age that makes people look the other way, it's more probably what else he brings to the table.
I struggle to think what Martinez has over De Ligt really. One of the biggest weakness of De Ligt was often pointed out at his lack of pace, and I am not sure that Martinez is much faster, but is most certainly more agile.
Varane's problem is not that he is decorated or big name or that it didn't translate well. He look like injury prone and we are yet to see him have a consistent run. He also played in a chaotic side, who as I will point out, has a disastrous midfield in the heart of it, with CMs who are abysmal footballers and not fit to wear the shirt. I think the side will benefit with better coaching and some of that midfield will improve, however I do think having a disastrous midfield will handicap Martinez also.
Van Gaal did the opposite of going for names by the looks of it. Don't forget he went for Rojo who was relatively unknown CB, then he insisted on two talents who were never good enough. His problems were not names, he was an absolute incompetent fool.
Is it really that way? Chelsea spent 40m Euro for a 31 yo defender, who didn't win anything of notice in his career.
Now it's reported Newcastle and Chelsea are ready to pay 90m Euro (release clause) for Koundé. Is he better than de Ligt or Martinez?
80m £ for Maguire aren't a bargain either.
There are just more and more clubs spending big, thus the market is getting tougher and more expensive.
Italian League to German League, who cares?
Fantastic signing. Bayern should be able to bring him to the next level as a defender
Good point. Not that's how football worries these days. If a young player has one good season, the valuation is already north of 50m Euro, if her had an outstanding season prices are going up even further.
PSG paid 190m Euro Mbappé. Nobody could be sure it will work out. Say the end it did.
United payed 50m Euro for Martial who had a good season. It didn't work out as planned.
Not examples? Sancho, Haaland (if not for his release clause) or next year Bellingham.
Koulibaly is one of the best CBs in Europe and 38m euros is a lot of money still, since I do think he had 1 year left on his contract? However I do think they are getting undisputed quality, in a position they lost 2 senior players and one of them was crucial. Something like us and midfield except they addressed and by most accounts continue to strengthen.
I don't think anyone will pay 90m euros for Kounde. Newcastle haggled over Botman and demonstrated they are not going to be reckless, Chelsea I think will rather spend 50m on Kimpembe rather than pay 90m for Kounde.
Maguire was lunacy and total incompetence.
Martinez looks like a more accomplished passer, and possibly a better ball carrier. Left footed too, which some people might minimise but is clearly important for many of the Dutch coaches. Even Pep likes having a left footed CB.
To be clear, I wasn't referencing van Gaal going for names (not in defence, at least). I was acknowledging his mistakes. He did get it right in the end with Blind, however.
We'll see how it pans out but I'm not upset we haven't gone in for de Ligt. Let's not forget ten Hag has managed him and Martinez. If he felt de Ligt was integral to his plans, he would've pushed for him in the same way he has for de Jong in midfield.
All signals from the de Ligt camp were very clear that he wants to go to Bayern.
Hence, no one knows, which clubs would have been in for him as well.
Well there you go then. It might not have even been an option on the table.
I really don't like how when asked about Martinez''s strengths, it's always passer or on the ball, it's never about actually being a top CB, which maybe I am all fashioned but feel is the most important thing, and especially if you are paying what we are. All of VVD, Laporte, Dias, Konate, even Matip, then Silva are absolute top top defenders and excel first and foremost in defending, brick walls.
I want to think that we wanted de Ligt but we had no chance, which makes it less painful to be honest. I am sure ten Hag knows them both well, as he did Timber and preferred at first. I think it's a very risky and don't want to say stupid move by ETH this one. Huge fee and not much proven player outside Holland, I even think the club went and fulfilled his wishes to show that here it is, it's what the manager wants, and if he fails for that amount of money, it's trouble. We are not City to go and buy another CB for 60m in January and it could be bad if it turns out a dud.
You were asking compared to de Ligt? A player who you say is one of the best in the world.
Martinez has done well defensively too - just read up on it. Ajax conceded 19 goals in 34 league games last season. He's aggressive and has a very high aerial duel success rate, which is impressive for a small defender in one of the tallest leagues.
No transfer is a guarantee, and it's a lot of money. Inevitably some question marks will remain having only played in the Dutch league domestically. He has done well in the Champions League and at international level though, so I don't think that's a major cause for concern.
Another one of the golden Ajax generation that hasn't quite worked out.
I would prefer it if you would call us swamp germans.
Why are we even comparing de Ligt and Martinez in de Ligt's transfer thread?
They are very different defenders and there neither were serious links between de Ligt and United nor Bayern and Martinez.
They are very different defenders and there neither were serious links between de Ligt and United nor Bayern and Martinez.
Bayern Munich might just win the Bundesliga thanks to this signing. It'll be close, though.
Exactly. It might well be that Martinez fits way better to United than de Ligt.
You have trust the coaches here. They (should) know which players are best for their particular system.
My bad, you are right that part was compared to de Ligt. Now what are his main strengths as a CB? I have seen very little of him outside the CL, I think he was not playing come the end of the season with an injury when I started having interest in Ajax.
And yes the stats are very good, but he did play 24 games according to my info, and the ones he did not play Ajax lost none of them, with Ajax winning 8 and 2 draws, which demonstrates Ajax as a well drilled side, with obviously good organization even without martinez.
Yes he is very unproven imo., and the CL group was hardly much inspiring to be fair, Sporting, Besiktas and Dortmund (who were terrible), I mean we managed to get past through it and we were abysmal. Never seen him play with Argentina to be fair, does he always play CB?
Gotta admire how ruthless they are, we were never this ruthless under SAF. Could’ve easily gone to win every league title from 1995/1996 to 2003/2004, and from 2006/2007 to 2012/2013 if we were, easily.Bayern Munich might just win the Bundesliga thanks to this signing. It'll be close, though.
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