Matthijs De Ligt

Status
Not open for further replies.

poleglass red

Full Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
3,130
I don't think that I understand your question or if there is one but when it comes to agents and their dealings privately isn't a thing. None of them do their job just behind the scene the only difference is that some like Raiola or Barnett, say things themselves while others leak things to the press. It doesn't cause unrest at clubs, clubs are part of the system and they are one of the main feeder of leaks and manipulation through agents.

These kind of things only cause unrest among football fans that are strangely sensitive when it comes to these things when it's an outgoing player, but not so much when it concerns incoming players.
think the best response to that came from Rangnick recently himself when responding to a question about Martial's agent saying he wanted to leave in Jan ‘Well, I don’t communicate with agents via the media or the press."I think with Raiola, especially under Ole's reign was he was given too much leeway and not reigned in much sooner, possibly inexperience on Ole's behalf. Raiola made enough hints about Pogba wanting out, we know he offered him to City privately. As Rangnick said when discussing Pogba recently "If a player doesn't want to play for a club like Manchester United, even in the long term, I don't think it makes sense to convince him to change his mind." That should have been clear to Raiola and Pogba a long time ago, stay or go, and if you do stay knuckle down and stop the media spec. Clubs and agent do feed the media to suit their agendas. I feel with Rangnick the constant spec with Pogba would never had as got as far as it did under Ole, and that's good thing.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
59,583
Location
France
think the best response to that came from Rangnick recently himself when responding to a question about Martial's agent saying he wanted to leave in Jan ‘Well, I don’t communicate with agents via the media or the press."I think with Raiola, especially under Ole's reign was he was given too much leeway and not reigned in much sooner, possibly inexperience on Ole's behalf. Raiola made enough hints about Pogba wanting out, we know he offered him to City privately. As Rangnick said when discussing Pogba recently "If a player doesn't want to play for a club like Manchester United, even in the long term, I don't think it makes sense to convince him to change his mind." That should have been clear to Raiola and Pogba a long time ago, stay or go, and if you do stay knuckle down and stop the media spec. Clubs and agent do feed the media to suit their agendas. I feel with Rangnick the constant spec with Pogba would never had as got as far as it did under Ole, and that's good thing.
That's not really a response to that, agents don't expect a response via media and they don't start there either. And there is no theory to build around Raiola, Ole or anyone, Raiola blabs all the time about everything, his interviews are generally amusing for that reason, he answers questions about everything. Also the Rangnick part is to me a bit fantaisist, he was an executive for Red Bull football clubs, they are one of the structure that used agents and agent rumours the most whether we are talking about incoming or outgoing players, also Rangnick isn't a magician, agents will talk whenever they want particularly the ones with important clients. And the only thing that stops talks or players wanting to move is success on the field and money in the pocket.
 

Bepi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
3,219
Location
Italy
Supports
Juventus
That's not really a response to that, agents don't expect a response via media and they don't start there either. And there is no theory to build around Raiola, Ole or anyone, Raiola blabs all the time about everything, his interviews are generally amusing for that reason, he answers questions about everything. Also the Rangnick part is to me a bit fantaisist, he was an executive for Red Bull football clubs, they are one of the structure that used agents and agent rumours the most whether we are talking about incoming or outgoing players, also Rangnick isn't a magician, agents will talk whenever they want particularly the ones with important clients. And the only thing that stops talks or players wanting to move is success on the field and money in the pocket.
Yeah, I often find amusing on here that so many fans of the biggest commercial brand in football together with Real Madrid write as if Manchester United is Salford FC or any other local amateur football club. I understand the romanticism, having spent a term in Manchester myself as a fresher ten years ago (stayed near Oxford Road, at a junction with Victoria Station (??) and ahead of a nice Sainsbury supermarket for my continental meals), but this is a billions business and any involved party is trying to maximise their profit, agents and players as well.
 

SilentStrike

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
567
Location
Netherlands
Supports
Feyenoord
Only 22 while CBs usually enter ther prime in the late 20s, came through the Ajax ranks since a kid and led them domestically and abroad at 19, then spent 3 “university” years in the most tactical league around under the very crafted company of Chiellini and Bonucci… how is he not worth £100m, as a long term investment? Chelsea will knock at the door for sure again and Mino is just starting to test waters. This is the Pogba sort of transfer Mino always creams about, and you can be sure there will be more than one uber rich team interested in buying, again.
What nonsense.

He regressed. Imagine resorting to arguments like "he watched Chiellini and Bonucci"... You know what arguments matter? Things like losing his starting place in the NT, or making the same mistakes at 22 that he did at 17.

And is this the 90's again? The best coaches work in England these days, and generally they are brought in from innovative manegerial places like Germany, not Italy.
 

Bepi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
3,219
Location
Italy
Supports
Juventus
What nonsense.

He regressed. Imagine resorting to arguments like "he watched Chiellini and Bonucci"... You know what arguments matter? Things like losing his starting place in the NT, or making the same mistakes at 22 that he did at 17.

And is this the 90's again? The best coaches work in England these days, and generally they are brought in from innovative manegerial places like Germany, not Italy.
I can understand your antipathy and your Northern Europe bias, but I cannot say you or your compatriots know much about football these days, unfortunately.
 

BrilliantOrange

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,215
Supports
Ajax Amsterdam
What nonsense.

He regressed. Imagine resorting to arguments like "he watched Chiellini and Bonucci"... You know what arguments matter? Things like losing his starting place in the NT, or making the same mistakes at 22 that he did at 17.

And is this the 90's again? The best coaches work in England these days, and generally they are brought in from innovative manegerial places like Germany, not Italy.
He did not regress.. His development didnt continously go in the steep upward line it did in the 18/19 Ajax season. He came to Juve alone in a new country without his parents, with the status of a 80 million euro defender, competiting with Chielini Bonucci and Demiral and was expected to defend in a way completely different than what he was used to at Ajax, to a club where he had a different manager every year.

It would have been nothing short of a miracle if he had stood there immediately and didnt have any issues adapting to a new club/country/life. He is a no-brainer in the Juve defense this year, performs better than any other defender there in the team and is a stable factor in an otherwise unstable piece of crap team..

He just turned 22 three months ago, played 95 matched for Juve, 117 for Ajax. A total of 33 Champions League matches and 33 National caps, where his competition since the start consisted of Stefan de Vrij (named best defender of the Serie A a couple times) and Virgil Van Dijk (Ballon d'or challanger).

Thats nothing short of massively impressive and there are still all the signs he is going to remain one of the best defenders in the world for the coming 10 years..
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
10,078
Ajax fans, I already asked you one question but il ask another question about him- who is better if you had to choose between timber and De Ligt?
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
20,701
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
Ajax fans, I already asked you one question but il ask another question about him- who is better if you had to choose between timber and De Ligt?
De Ligt is developed further, but I think Timber is more talented. De Ligt became worse than he was at Ajax for me. Big and strong, but he moves around like fecking treebeard.

I know you said Ajax fans.
 

BrilliantOrange

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,215
Supports
Ajax Amsterdam
Ajax fans, I already asked you one question but il ask another question about him- who is better if you had to choose between timber and De Ligt?
Its so difficult... I still think De Ligt has a higher peak and more potential to become the greatest defender in the world. From a purely defensive standpoint.. The guys has almost everything.. Timber is better on the ball though and more explosive..

But this opinion is not settled in stone for me yet.. They are both still so early in their development...
 

BrilliantOrange

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,215
Supports
Ajax Amsterdam
De Ligt is developed further, but I think Timber is more talented. De Ligt became worse than he was at Ajax for me. Big and strong, but he moves around like fecking treebeard.

I know you said Ajax fans.
He isnt explosive and he doesnt turn that quickly, but he dóes have a lot of pace. De Ligt allowed Ajax in the CL to play with their defensive line on the opponents half, while Daley Blind was his partner in central defense..
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
20,701
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
He isnt explosive and he doesnt turn that quickly, but he dóes have a lot of pace. De Ligt allowed Ajax in the CL to play with their defensive line on the opponents half, while Daley Blind was his partner in central defense..
Yeah, he seemed more rapid at Ajax. He was amazing there. Strong too, but a bit more agile it seems. I just also really rate Timber. He's fantastic.
 

BrilliantOrange

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,215
Supports
Ajax Amsterdam
Yeah, he seemed more rapid at Ajax. He was amazing there. Strong too, but a bit more agile it seems. I just also really rate Timber. He's fantastic.
Fully agree.. Dont really like the Timber vs De Ligt question as well, as either answer for me feels like doing the other short..

Timber looks fantastic, but De Ligt has shown more on a higher level. De Ligt also has leadership qualities in terms of mentality..
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
111,349
Location
Dublin, Ireland
I watch pretty much every top team game in all the big leagues. Kinda psycho yes I know

So we agree on better player. I'll add "much" to that sentence. Harry wasn't worth half of what Utd paid for him and while de Ligt hasn't really gotten much better (I blame this on the league -- Id say La Liga is a much better fit for him) he's certainly still worth what Juve paid for him so that means his value is roughly double that of Maguire.
£160m??
 

BrilliantOrange

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,215
Supports
Ajax Amsterdam
Well yeah, we overpaid by 20-30m in my opinion

so that puts the poster valuing DeLigt between 80-160m. He’s not worth that and nobody is going to pay that at the moment
De Ligt was 85 million, Maguire 90... @Gfooty argues Maguire's value is 50% of amount paid, i.e. 45 million, and that De Ligt is still aorth the original amount paid, i.e. 85 million. Hence De Ligt is worth twice as much as Maguire...

Thats how I read his post.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
111,349
Location
Dublin, Ireland
De Ligt was 85 million, Maguire 90... @Gfooty argues Maguire's value is 50% of amount paid, i.e. 45 million, and that De Ligt is still aorth the original amount paid, i.e. 85 million. Hence De Ligt is worth twice as much as Maguire...

Thats how I read his post.
Well I’d argue neither are worth that money in todays market
 

Stadjer

Full Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
5,537
Location
The Netherlands
Well I’d argue neither are worth that money in todays market
You could argue that for de Ligt you are buying potential and future too. 90m transfer cost is worth it if you get 10 years of quality defending from him. With Maguire you know you arent going to get 10 years. Bit like Rio, he was expensive and the most expensive defender for a while but nobody mentions that anymore since he was worth it.
 

Terranova

Full Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
939
Supports
United/Ajax
this kinda disproves the he's regressed at Juventus argument. Sure he's turned into a different type of defender(not even that much though) but he's still solid. I just don't like the way he traded in agility/pace for bulk. But that's Italy for you i guess. Hopefully he can undo that as soon as he leaves Italy, because while still kinda fast, the loss of agility/acceleration isn't a good thing for other competitions.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
8,093
I’d love to bring De Ligt to OT but I doubt we’d get any takers for Maguire, who after a very bright start has regressed since he joined United.
 

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,869
I’d love to bring De Ligt to OT but I doubt we’d get any takers for Maguire, who after a very bright start has regressed since he joined United.
We had a decent chance to bring him in 2019 he chose juve and we chose experience

The cb position is the least of our problems buying another riola client who'd probably feck of in a year or two while forking out a fortune seems unwise
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
10,746
No Italians?
The only guys I could think of who'd normally be in with a shout would be Spinazzola (injured), Chiesa (Juve haven't scored any goals), Juve CBs (ancient), Immobile (13 goals from 15 games you'd think would put him up there but not that different from Simeone's record), Insigne (been ok) and maybe Barella (I think he's been injured a bit too). Not a massive amount of Italian talent actually in Italy atm.
 

Niemans

Full Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
1,106
Supports
Barcelona, Celta de Vigo
It’s laughable anyone that would demand a transfer fee or above average wages is linked with Barca.
In the end it wasn't so laughable as evidenced by the signing of F. Torres.
 

giorno

boob novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
23,409
Supports
Real Madrid
De Ligt is developed further, but I think Timber is more talented. De Ligt became worse than he was at Ajax for me. Big and strong, but he moves around like fecking treebeard.

I know you said Ajax fans.
So they asked you then
 

giorno

boob novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
23,409
Supports
Real Madrid
No Italians?
There's not a lot of great italian players around. What Mancini did at the euros was incredible. Donnarumma, Jorginho and Verratti don't play in Italy. Bonucci and Chiellini are still great CBs, but not exceptional anymore. Chiesa has been injured and a bit of a disappointment so far, Allegri also isn't a fan apparently. Barella and Insigne have been great, but so have Fabian and Pasalic. Vlahovic and Gio Simeone are no brainers, Vlahovic is the best player in the league and Simeone is scoring like crazy
 

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,869
Get ready to be inundated by a wave of media rumors linking him to use due to the hag connection.
He has definitely matured over there though he still has a lot of mistakes in him with an extreme predliction for touching the ball, but even then I still comfortably think he has the highest potential ceiling compared to all the other young cebter backs on the market .
His agent is obviously a no no and I also think they have an agreement to let him go for about 70 to 80 mils if the right offer came in as they seem to need the cash anyway, he's also on relatively high wages(200k per week i think).
Would love to have him over here but I think that ship has sailed, unfortunately right now , he won't fit us that much considering that he's still pretty young.
 

Solius

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Staff
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
77,405
How's he been at Juve? Seems both him and FDJ have stuttered a bit since leaving Ajax.
 

Red Star One

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
3,028
Location
Luxembourg/Warsaw
How's he been at Juve? Seems both him and FDJ have stuttered a bit since leaving Ajax.
I think Frenkie did a little bit better. De Ligt is still a great player but didn’t really shine as much in Juve, perhaps it’s the system, perhaps it’s the league, maybe he’s not as good at adaptation. Most Juve fans I know were slightly disappointed
 

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,869
How's he been at Juve? Seems both him and FDJ have stuttered a bit since leaving Ajax.
I watch them a lot so I feel qualified to Answer this.
Short answer , its a mixed bag, there is no doubt about his quality and potential, there has been games where he has been genuinely world class but he still commits a lot of mistakes, especially handballs in the penalty area where its has cost them at times though he has gotten a lot better in that regard it seems.
He had some problems adjusting to the way sarri set them up ( a weird zonal system)and I think it has had lasting effects, his passing has not been able to shine as much as it should have either.
He is a very complete defender and it shows and as I said before incredible potential but even then juve fans are a bit mixed on him as he has relatively high wages and some of them think it might be better to get rid of him as he definitely has patches were hw just has these brain facts going for him.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
12,212
Supports
Erik ten Hag
Get ready to be inundated by a wave of media rumors linking him to use due to the hag connection.
He has definitely matured over there though he still has a lot of mistakes in him with an extreme predliction for touching the ball, but even then I still comfortably think he has the highest potential ceiling compared to all the other young cebter backs on the market .
His agent is obviously a no no and I also think they have an agreement to let him go for about 70 to 80 mils if the right offer came in as they seem to need the cash anyway, he's also on relatively high wages(200k per week i think).
Would love to have him over here but I think that ship has sailed, unfortunately right now , he won't fit us that much considering that he's still pretty young.
There were already links but no one post them here since no one believe it. Ironically, more people post it in FDJ thread even though there is better chance of De Ligt leaves Juventus than FDJ leaves Barcelona since De Ligt only has 2 years left in his contract and his fat cnut agent is looking for new club right now.
 
X
Status
Not open for further replies.