Messi in Miami

TheNewEra

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People are SO over the top with Messi, I gonna tell you...

I've seen Ozil doing passes like that on a weekly basis for Arsenal, but I've never seen this exaggerated reaction. Calm down, guy
I think Messi is the Goat but there's plenty of players that can play that pass such as Modric, KDB. He looks right down the line and sees the runner, I even agree the likes of Ozil could see and play that pass.

What those other players can't do is take the ball down, twist the defender, attract all the players to him and play the pass within around 1.5 seconds of the first touch, its the speed of doing it then the darting run to get on the end of the receiving pass.

Its Messis ability to control, dribble, execute and finish that sets him apart.
 

AndySmith1990

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People are SO over the top with Messi, I gonna tell you...

I've seen Ozil doing passes like that on a weekly basis for Arsenal, but I've never seen this exaggerated reaction. Calm down, guy
No one with over 700 goals in their career also consistently plays crazy passes like a top playmaker.
 

TheNewEra

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If Ozil could play passes like that on a weekly basis he’d never have been allowed to leave Madrid for Arsenal. Great passer but your claim is more exaggerated than any here.
Ozil could but he couldn't take the ball down shift the ball like that to open up for the pass.

Messi creates the fine margin for the space to play the pass, Ozil wouldn't be able to do that.

Its not just about the pass itself but everything around the pass IMO which is arguably more impressive.
 

elPibeDeOro

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A very subtle detail on that pass is the relative power he gets on it, considering he kinds of just shovels it.
 

devaneios

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I think that was a classy pass but i dont understand the hyperbole over that one particular. It was not "alien", Messi is a 10/10 passer and sometimes transcends ratings in passing quality but M. Laudrup is my GOAT for passing even though Messi is sublime.
I think even De Bruyne is a better all round passer, and Ozil has more vision and creativity with his passes in the final third.

If Ozil could play passes like that on a weekly basis he’d never have been allowed to leave Madrid for Arsenal. Great passer but your claim is more exaggerated than any here.
He did; I've no idea how Madrid allowed him to leave(it worked very well for them though).
 

Fobal

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I think even De Bruyne is a better all round passer, and Ozil has more vision and creativity with his passes in the final third.


He did; I've no idea how Madrid allowed him to leave(it worked very well for them though).
The pass was part of a great play, it isn't also sthg to write a novel about it (more when the lad himself has made way better passes) but is part of the whole bringing football to America stuff that would be fullfill with lots of hiperboles as long as he is playing there, is part of the idea behind moving to USA, becoming football's face like once O Rei did with Cosmos...yet in the moment, the tempo of the play itself was trully great.
BTW Alba's acrobatic pass was trully fantastic and great that the one receiving it was Lio to end in such a goal.

On the other statements, you are selling Messi really short with such comparisons, you are involving two Elite fantastic footballers with a Genius level one, is sthg like when Micah (even praising him) the other day said that Messi is Silva on steroids...I see it more in the EPL fans because for many valid reasons (fantastic infraestructure, tradition, passion for the game) generates a pride that tend to fall in such assumptions more than often.
In any case, you've mentioned too fantastic players regarding their passing ability and vision and there is nothing wrong it if it falls in the mere predilection for other players, in fact we people can even not like the style of extraordinary footballers, but really man Messi is what he is for his full array of traits in a genius level.
 
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Fobal

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A bit of topic, but just for the sake of enjoying football and admiring trully fantastisc passes:

I can't put a vid here (noob), I'll just put the link to youtube and specially watch the 0:15 min pass from Diego to Brindisi in Boca, it's just really astonishing, no backlift, incredible effect, power, his relation with the ball was unreal (leaving the vision and timing aside) sadly a very bad quality vid.

The vid is called: : "Todos los goles oficiales de Miguel Ángel Brindisi en Boca" the channel: "ADN Xeneixe"
 
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Donaldo

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A bit of topic, but just for the sake of enjoying football and admiring trully fantastisc passes:

I can't put a vid here (noob), I'll try with just to put the link to youtube watch this 0:15 min pass from Diego to Brindisi in Boca, it's just really astonishing, no backlift, incredible effect, power, his relation with the ball was unreal (leaving the vision and timing aside) sadly a very bad quality vid.

The vid is called: : "Todos los goles oficiales de Miguel Ángel Brindisi en Boca" the channel: "ADN Xeneixe"
I think I've watched this one for about 15 years now, almost every other month, and definitely before some (relatively) big games I've played in.

 

B20

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I think I've watched this one for about 15 years now, almost every other month, and definitely before some (relatively) big games I've played in.

The one on 1:30. 50 yard lifted pass that just stops dead on arrival. Incredible backspin over that distance.
 

Gehrman

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I think this angle shows that it's not only Messi who sees that pass. The attacker raises his hand to draw attention from Messi and Messi delivers it perfectly but its not in realm of Messi's no look nutmeg pass vs the Netherlands.

 

Fobal

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I think I've watched this one for about 15 years now, almost every other month, and definitely before some (relatively) big games I've played in.
Yeap that vid is great. I think Diego was the epithomize of out of the blue, creativity and pure joy and passion while playing, people talks about RG, that was trully fantastic and a joy to watch, but he is closer to Rivelino, Sivori or even lazy Djalminha sort of player in terms on how he played and felt the game.
Diego did it with a lot more sense, drive and like other Geniuses at a very fast pace on every sense, physically and mentally. He was a maverick of creating situations or goals that just weren't on anyone not even mind, imagination, that pass I've mentioned in the vid I quote it's the sort of plays that defines him (the goal against River in the National Cup were he just strikes the ball by the sideline after a throw in, it's just a classic WTF pure Diego moment).

I allways thought of Pele as the communion of drive, tough (even mean) as nails athlete with a virtuosic talent, with a will to score and win no matter what. A shark with the grace of gazelle, the epithome of power and will dressed in a tuxedo an absolute genius.
Messi is like the nonchalant demenour fella, the one that everything comes easy to him, he is like the smooth operator, that slalom against Viktoria Plzeň that deserved to be a goal defines him, he is like an upgrade to what Zico, Best style aside were, with of course the inevitable Diego alike plays a similar will and more focus approach like Pele, but with in the majority of cases like a silent shark, by the moment you detected him, you're already bleeding.

And then you have fellas like Cryuff, Platini or Di Stefano that sometimes we feel they are just a tier bellow because of the off the charts athletism and virtuosism of the mentioned above, but that brought the fecking whole package even on a more tactical and all around tasks in the pitch, while being quite freaky themselves in the athletism and virtuosity department. I trully think that if anyone preffers any of them as the best ever, that actually at the end means, my preffererd one, there is very little to say against bar I preffer better this other one because I like more whatever stuff.
This BTW doesn't mean that in a pure stats and titles involved some of these fellas would stand above others and that there is nothing wrong if that ends to be the final criteria on a pure mathematically way, because we are dealing with different but all of them Genius alike fellas that sit in the same table or realm.
 
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Fobal

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I think this angle shows that it's not only Messi who sees that pass. The attacker raises his hand to draw attention from Messi and Messi delivers it perfectly but its not in realm of Messi's no look nutmeg pass vs the Netherlands.
The Dutch assist it's the epithome of what really a no look pass should be in a strict footballing sense beyond entertainment.
Messi in the Miami goal "creates" a moment, a glimpse were he notices Cremaschi flying on the right flank, what is very Messi alike is the "Romario freeze time" in the area due to his confidence and skill to maneuver in tight spaces in general and here in the little area like if he was in his garden and of course the perfect weighted nonchalant pass like it's nothing...BTW great devolution by the Kid, he could have easily fvcked up the whole play with his returning pass and it was inch perfect.
 

GinobiliTheGOAT

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People are SO over the top with Messi, I gonna tell you...

I've seen Ozil doing passes like that on a weekly basis for Arsenal, but I've never seen this exaggerated reaction. Calm down, guy
No you haven't, ffs :lol:

Ozil was superb, but Messi a whole other level.
 

cafecillos

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People are SO over the top with Messi, I gonna tell you...

I've seen Ozil doing passes like that on a weekly basis for Arsenal, but I've never seen this exaggerated reaction. Calm down, guy
:lol:

No white text too, brilliant :lol:
 

RedMessiah

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People are SO over the top with Messi, I gonna tell you...

I've seen Ozil doing passes like that on a weekly basis for Arsenal, but I've never seen this exaggerated reaction. Calm down, guy
yes, sure, Ozil played this kind of pass every week, whatever you say pal. Your comment looks like it was pulled out from Twitter, and you can't go lower than that these days...
 

VanKenny

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As an all-round footballer? Yes, he obviously is. As a pure playmaker? No, he's not.
Yeah, he is.

Give Messi for his entire career the sole responsibility of creating plays (like Ozil), and hed have a compilation 10x as long as any Ozil's one, with far more impressive passes as well. Anyone that doubts this, with all sincerity id question his football knowledge.

Only reason he didnt have that just one responsibility is because hes possibly just as good or even better as an scorer and dribbler.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Ozil was a very good final 3rd passer in his own right, but I do think Messi is a level above quite clearly.

Him, Maradona and Laudrup are probably the 3 best final 3rd passers of all-time.
 

Joel Miller

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Ozil was a very good final 3rd passer in his own right, but I do think Messi is a level above quite clearly.

Him, Maradona and Laudrup are probably the 3 best final 3rd passers of all-time.
Always find it perplexing how often Laudrup is missed out on all these discussions about greats. He was a genius and easily worthy of sitting alongside Zidane, Platini etc.

If Ozil was playing passes like that every well he’d have never been anywhere near Arsenal.
 

devaneios

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Yeah, he is.

Give Messi for his entire career the sole responsibility of creating plays (like Ozil), and hed have a compilation 10x as long as any Ozil's one, with far more impressive passes as well. Anyone that doubts this, with all sincerity id question his football knowledge.

Only reason he didnt have that just one responsibility is because hes possibly just as good or even better as an scorer and dribbler.
That doesn't even make sense.

It's not like Messi give away the ball to roam around the box waiting for a pass, like Ronaldo did/does. Even in his most prolific seasons, he went deep in the field to get the ball and start plays all the time. It's just that he also has elite shooting and dribbling to relies on when he can't find a teammate to play with.

Always find it perplexing how often Laudrup is missed out on all these discussions about greats. He was a genius and easily worthy of sitting alongside Zidane, Platini etc.
Skill-wise, he certainly should be talked about on the same level as Zidane, but he didn't perform his best at the highest level, unlike the French, so I think is fair to put him below.

Platini was a much better player and had more influence in his teams overall gameplay; he was like Messi, but without the crazy agility and dribbling skills(I think his passing and leadership were better though).
 

devaneios

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Also, Laudrup played at a time when poor workrate playmakers weren't looked down, unlike Ozil. Can you imagine Ozil having a team builded around him?

Edit: I'm still forgetting the post limit :)
 
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Fobal

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Always find it perplexing how often Laudrup is missed out on all these discussions about greats. He was a genius and easily worthy of sitting alongside Zidane, Platini etc.

If Ozil was playing passes like that every well he’d have never been anywhere near Arsenal.
I won't put them in a Genius level, just because of my own (pull it from my arse) cathegory, where I reserve that tag for the frekiest among the freakiest, but what a trio.

Laudrup, Littbarski, Platini, Zico, Ardiles, Falcao...so many awesome players that time it's harsh on them...even when we think of Puskas and Di Stefano the numbers those fellas put on regular basis in comparison with the matches played by them and their all around game it's also quite "forgotten".

Littbarski, Iniesta and Ardiles, even with different types of roles, are a breed of footballers that I allways loved, those silky "normal" dudes that are pure intelligence and smoothness with a great part of hood/street improvisation specially dribblin... Laudrup belongs to that group but he had a bigger physique than those marvellous midgets. Laudrup was so fecking great (in fact his Brian was also very good, yet Michael was beyond great).
 
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Fobal

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Veron's ridiculous pass to Solskjaer vs Deportivo. Skip to 10:20.
I really hated when Veron became more like some sort of all around CM, than his birth as a formidable dinamic 8...the Veron from Estudiantes/Boca, from the WC98, from Samp and Parma specially, what a fun player. I guess that Italian football of that era with the constant long ball, playing to force the rival's error changed him and he become a more ladi back player, seeing that he just can cope anyway. His Inter period he literally became some sort of classic argie number 5 without the stamina and grit many tmes need for the role if you are not a Redondo type of fella.
 

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That doesn't even make sense.

It's not like Messi give away the ball to roam around the box waiting for a pass, like Ronaldo did/does. Even in his most prolific seasons, he went deep in the field to get the ball and start plays all the time. It's just that he also has elite shooting and dribbling to relies on when he can't find a teammate to play with.


Skill-wise, he certainly should be talked about on the same level as Zidane, but he didn't perform his best at the highest level, unlike the French, so I think is fair to put him below.

Platini was a much better player and had more influence in his teams overall gameplay; he was like Messi, but without the crazy agility and dribbling skills(I think his passing and leadership were better though).
Michael Laudrup performed at the highest level since 18 years old, he wasn't gonna win the WC cause he played for Denmark, but pretty much he did well with his national team.

He is severely underrated, one of the GOATs of passing for sure, him and Platini are the closest I can think of Messi in terms of pure passing.

He is a top 20-25 player in history for me.
 

Gehrman

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Always find it perplexing how often Laudrup is missed out on all these discussions about greats. He was a genius and easily worthy of sitting alongside Zidane, Platini etc.

If Ozil was playing passes like that every well he’d have never been anywhere near Arsenal.
He wasn't just a great passer as well. He was the definition of the ultimate technical player, incredible dribbler and had the same football iq as Cryuff and Messi and still scored a decent amount despite being one of the most unselfish AM's ever. He was taller and faster than Iniesta who looked like he based his game on M. Laudrup but i think Laudrup still made more beautiful varied assists. Iniesta had a more glorious career though.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Michael Laudrup performed at the highest level since 18 years old, he wasn't gonna win the WC cause he played for Denmark, but pretty much he did well with his national team.

He is severely underrated, one of the GOATs of passing for sure, him and Platini are the closest I can think of Messi in terms of pure passing.

He is a top 20-25 player in history for me.
No Maradona?

Don't really think Messi's a better passer than him honestly. I'd say they're about the same.

I think Xavi should be up there too personally.
 

Joel Miller

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He wasn't just a great passer as well. He was the definition of the ultimate technical player, incredible dribbler and had the same football iq as Cryuff and Messi and still scored a decent amount despite being one of the most unselfish AM's ever. He was taller and faster than Iniesta who looked like he based his game on M. Laudrup but i think Laudrup still made more beautiful varied assists. Iniesta had a more glorious career though.
Oh Iniesta absolutely did base his game on Laudrup, he even admitted to having posters of him on his wall when he was a kid. And that dribble he does where he moves the ball from one foot to the other is classic Laudrup. He really was a sensational footballer, incredible that he wasn’t even a part of the national side during their greatest triumph at Euro 92. As someone else said his brother was an excellent player too albeit not at the level of Michael.

There’s a great Michael Laudrup compilation on YouTube that’s about 15 minutes of sensational passing and dribbling. I’d share it if I had those privileges!
 

Gehrman

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Oh Iniesta absolutely did base his game on Laudrup, he even admitted to having posters of him on his wall when he was a kid. And that dribble he does where he moves the ball from one foot to the other is classic Laudrup. He really was a sensational footballer, incredible that he wasn’t even a part of the national side during their greatest triumph at Euro 92. As someone else said his brother was an excellent player too albeit not at the level of Michael.

There’s a great Michael Laudrup compilation on YouTube that’s about 15 minutes of sensational passing and dribbling. I’d share it if I had those privileges!
La croqueta was just called the Laudrup feint here back home. It was what the coaches tried to teach us when trying to learn dribbling in the sunday league. I believe dribbling is one thing you cant teach. Its either a natural ability or not. I think George best said the same. For the fastest players the most you can teach is how to optimize kick and run.
 

Gehrman

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No Maradona?

Don't really think Messi's a better passer than him honestly. I'd say they're about the same.

I think Xavi should be up there too personally.
Apart from Maradona i think Cryuff would be a contender as well. Going back further im sure there is enough footage to have Pelé up there as well. You hardly get moniker as the greatest ever if you dont excell at everything.
 

devaneios

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Apart from Maradona i think Cryuff would be a contender as well. Going back further im sure there is enough footage to have Pelé up there as well. You hardly get moniker as the greatest ever if you dont excell at everything.
Pelé was just a good passer; nowhere near the others aforementioned.
 

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Pele was an extraordinary passer because he had extraordinary technique striking the ball on every sense, but his role was always more related to the ponta de lanza with wild card permissions to roam whenever he wanted at certain moments...and BTW, there are and where tons of extraordinary passers in the history of the game that it becomes rather silly to determine who was better at it among the elite/excellent footballers...BUT what sets apart a Pele, Maradona, Messi or even Zico (just a bit lesser due to his maybe lower physical power) it's the abilty to do it also at a way faster pace, in a lot more constraint spaces (time involved in it too), on THEIR OWN run, that's not a normal run due to their pace nor going throught typical channels and somehow they involve incredible vision in many of those situations.
That's one of the main reasons why they seat on a different table to other phenoms or extraordinary footballers, this sort of geniuses are even more one offs than many opf the extraordinary players mentioned here.

PD:
Just on pure sensation and mere predilection, Diego is the one that made me think more often "WTF was that" with lots of his passing, or mere striking the ball...whenever it's in motion or not and I sometimes think it was due also to the genetic lottery that built him, he was really really short, stocky and strong as hell, acrobatic and agile and with really small feet, when on top of that physique you have that level of technique, he just seemed to be able to pull out ridiculous shots, passes and he had a kanck also to naturally entertain when doing even the smallest of touches almost always witha bit of spin or finesse, in him comes as a natural thing, not a "look how skill I am" it's just second nature and more when he pull out this sort of finesse at full pace and even struggling to not fell while being hacked. I wonder if he hadn't be that bad injured that for me clearly pushed his drug abuse and he just took care better of himself, but what the heck, it's life.
 

VanKenny

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That doesn't even make sense.

It's not like Messi give away the ball to roam around the box waiting for a pass, like Ronaldo did/does. Even in his most prolific seasons, he went deep in the field to get the ball and start plays all the time. It's just that he also has elite shooting and dribbling to relies on when he can't find a teammate to play with.
Except it does...

Messi was the spearhead of Barcelona. It just so happens that hes so good that he would help with creation as well. He exceled at both tasks and was the best in the world at both which made arguments like "he only walks out there, hes lazy!" a bit silly, but thats another topic.

Ozil and Messi didnt play the same position, that is simply not the case. Messi had far more responsibilities and impact on the field than Ozil did, had he played strictly as an attacking midfielder right behind the forward line just as Ozil did, hed be know easily and by far as the best passer and assister in history.

He had other jobs though (unlike Ozil). Which is why i initially said that if Messi's main role and responsibility had been to be an attacking midfielder and let the forwards do the scoring (like Ozil), hed have a compilation of assists 10x as long and as impressive as Ozil's.


Ozil is a quality player but he isnt even known as one of the best passers in history so i dont really see why we are having this discussion TBH.
 

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Cremaschi gets a call up to the full US National Team. Messi assisting the kid on and off the pitch!
 

B20

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What a terrible defense, jesus christ. If the attackers weren't so bad, Messi would easily reach 500 assists playing there.
Goals like that get scored in better leagues too.

People falling over themselves to stress how awful these defences are every time is just starting to look like parody at this point