Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[RedRonaldo]

I still don’t understand how anyone could suggest one is ‘clearly’ better than the other, when they had more or less achieve the same over their career in same period of time.

Surely Messi is better in dribbling and playmaking, but Ronaldo better at goalscoring, and has better mentality/impact in winning crucial games/under tougher situations.

And yes Messi is better performer on the pitch and win more La Liga trophies, but Ronaldo has more career/international goals, and more impact on winning CL and Euro.

I don’t mind people say Messi is better player (better talent) and Ronaldo has better career (better achievement) though. But they are indeed very close to each other in terms of impact on winning games/trophies, individual stats, records and overall achievement. In short, they are more or less on same level overall (in football history)

 

[Gehrman]

Personally I stopped believing in that there is a GOAT. It's 11 vs 11 team game. It's not like tennis where you can match people up against each other for a duel or you can record who is the fastest in a 200 m sprint in history. For me Pelé. Maradonna, Cryuff, De Stefano, Beckenbaur, Messi and Ronaldo are just leaps ahead of the rest with Messi and Ronaldo clearly being the best in modern football. If I had to choose, I would rather choose on preference of playstyle.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Personally I stopped believing in that there is a GOAT. It's 11 vs 11 team game. It's not like tennis where you can match people up against each other for duel or you can record who is the fastest in a 200 m sprint in history. For me Pelé. Maradonna, Cryuff, De Stefano, Beckenbaur, Messi and Ronaldo are just leaps ahead of the rest with Messi and Ronaldo clearly being the best in modern football. If I had to choose, I would rather choose on preference of playstyle.

I think this is fair, how can you fairly compare players when there are so many variables out of their control?

For example Messi fans will lament Higuain, Ronaldo fans will argue that his international team mates have always been quite average (although these days they look good).

Ultimately like you said there is probably a list of players who have been absolutely outstanding and so far ahead they’re on another level, and putting a clear number 1 is just impossible.

 

[CG1010]

I don't get why we can't just enjoy possibly the best 2 players to ever play the game without finding faults in one just to prove the other is better.

Also, Ronaldo is clearly better.

We love to do player comparisons even when its pointless. The whole caf could engage itself with Rashford vs Martial debate in every possible thread, even when they were both in the same team..

 

[Gehrman]

I think this is fair, how can you fairly compare players when there are so many variables out of their control? For
example Messi fans will lament Higuain, Ronaldo fans will argue that his international team mates have always been quite average (although these days they look good).

Ultimately like you said there is probably a list of players who have been absolutely outstanding and so far ahead they’re on another level, and putting a clear number 1 is just impossible.

It's also because it can easily become an obsession with stats mainly goals/assists. Great players pass the eye test. They just stand out on the pitch, but goals/assists usually skews everything in favour of the forwards. And then there are great players that are not prolific goal scorers. Neither Zidane or Iniesta were very prolific. Compare Iniesta's 57 goals and 141 assists for barcelona in 674 games with Lampards 210 goals and 151 assists for Chelsea in 648 games and you'd think he's at least thrice the player from looking at those stats only. Not that Lampard wasn't a great player mind.

 

[Swoobs]

I’m not talking about just last season, Ronaldo simply has surpassed Messi since 5 years ago. The 3 peat and euro win along with all the records in the process.

He still has 2 more that he will break.

Only a WC win would take Messi over Ronaldo at this point. A copa América would ignite the debate to a more even playing field. That’s a big IF though.

“Simply surpassed” according to who? To you and your circle of Portuguese fans. Continuously repeating the same belief does not make it a fact. The fact is most polls have messi in front. Fact is ballon-dor award has messi in front. CR7 may have won more team awards but messi has more individual awards, you can argue on the validity of those awards but facts are facts, and facts pointed to messi being a superior individual player. So do not paint you and your circle’s opinions as a fact, it is honestly irritating

 

[Andycoleno9]

Even most of United fans don't think that Ronaldo is the goat. That tells something.

 

[mancan92]

Even most of United fans don't think that Ronaldo is the goat. That tells something.

Not really. Many English people believe he is the best generally. If you ask in yiur local pub even a Liverpool fan will say he did it in the prem so he must be better.

 

[Gehrman]

It cracks me up when Ronaldo names himself

 

[MrEleson]

Even most of United fans don't think that Ronaldo is the goat. That tells something.

Some are still bitter that he left the club. Not saying that’s why but there is certainly an agenda for those who feel that way.

 

[roonster09]

Some are still bitter that he left the club. Not saying that’s why but there is certainly an agenda for those who feel that way.

Or maybe people can see how good Messi is and feel he is clearly better footballer.

You don't have to be bitter or have agenda to say Ronaldo is not GOAT.

 

[OleBoiii]

Over 500 pages

It's obviously Messi, but it's not nearly as obvious as most neutrals claim. I still reckon Ronaldo would be more useful than Messi in a weak/mediocre team. He's also more athletic, better in the air and better inside the box. He also strikes me as the better leader.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Personally I stopped believing in that there is a GOAT. It's 11 vs 11 team game. It's not like tennis where you can match people up against each other for a duel or you can record who is the fastest in a 200 m sprint in history. For me Pelé. Maradonna, Cryuff, De Stefano, Beckenbaur, Messi and Ronaldo are just leaps ahead of the rest with Messi and Ronaldo clearly being the best in modern football. If I had to choose, I would rather choose on preference of playstyle.

Puskas, Gerd Muller, Platini, Best, Gento and Eusebio all 100% deserve to be mentioned alongside the others you have mentioned.

 

[JakeC]

I think the career Ronaldo has had has been better, just on the basis he's won trophies for different clubs, as well as winning an International trophy. The next world cup will be the deciding factor, should one of them win it.

 

[Gehrman]

Puskas, Gerd Muller, Platini, Best, Gento and Eusebio all 100% deserve to be mentioned alongside the others you have mentioned.

For sure.

 

[MrEleson]

Or maybe people can see how good Messi is and feel he is clearly better footballer.

You don't have to be bitter or have agenda to say Ronaldo is not GOAT.

I’m not speaking of everyone. I’m just saying generally some United fans are bitter, so using the argument: “even united fans think Messi is the GOAT” doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Ronaldo left united more than 11 years ago too so some may not have even been fans when he played for the club.[/QUOTE]

 

[Zehner]

I think it's kind of ironic that we're still talking about team achievements after both players have proven this season (not for the first time by the way) that they're hugely dependent on the team they're playing in - maybe just a little less than the rest of the bunch. However, it wasn't a particularly good year for the pretty much universally agreed top 5-10 in the world (Messi, Cristiano, Neymar, Mbappe, Hazard, de Bruyne, Salah, Mane, van Dijk) in terms of international competitions, Lewandowski aside, was it? This is just the wrong measuring stick to judge an individual.

So I hope Cristiano continues like he does for another few years and breaks many records while doing so but to me that won't make a difference. If he ends up with a more impressive trophy cabinet than Messi that just makes him a player who has won more not who was better during his active time as a footballer. He never was capable of the same brillance and at this point I believe it's save to say he never will be. And that's not a dig, it's just the way it is.

 

[Zehner]

Puskas, Gerd Muller, Platini, Best, Gento and Eusebio all 100% deserve to be mentioned alongside the others you have mentioned.

You forgot R9 who at his best didn't have to hide from anyone and probably would've rendered this thread unnecessary if those injuries didn't occur Also Zico and di Stefano.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

I’m not speaking of everyone. I’m just saying generally some United fans are bitter, so using the argument: “even united fans think Messi is the GOAT” doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Ronaldo left united more than 11 years ago too so some may not have even been fans when he played for the club.

Ronaldo has his name sung every home game. For every United fan who is biased against Ronaldo for leaving, there are 10 that are bias because of what he achieved for our club.

I know as I used to to be biased for Ronaldo myself before giving myself the chance to enjoy Messi's brilliance.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

There's too many variables to try and pick the GOAT. It's a personal choice on what makes a player and personally I wouldn't have Ronaldo in the top 5 maybe even top 10 as GOAT. I'm not saying he's not a phenomenal player because he obviously is but watching players like Messi, Best, Maradona, Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho gives me a lot more joy watching them than watching Ronaldo. Magicians vs machine.

 

[Gehrman]

There's too many variables to try and pick the GOAT. It's a personal choice on what makes a player and personally I wouldn't have Ronaldo in the top 5 maybe even top 10 as GOAT. I'm not saying he's not a phenomenal player because he obviously is but watching players like Messi, Best, Maradona, Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho gives me a lot more joy watching them than watching Ronaldo. Magicians vs machine.

Nah its criminal not to have CR7 in the top 10 at least. He was electric before he centered most of his game around being a goal poacher.

 

[LucasXXII]

People said the same thing before the last Euro. They said the same when Ronaldo was 4-1 down in Ballon D’ors. They also said the same before Ronaldo 3-peated the CL. It was always..”if he manages to do this he’ll finally be on equal standing or ahead.” However, whenever he managed to achieve and even surpass those challenges (massively against the odds and to the huge surprise of his detractors), the same people would just come up with more excuses and other things he needed to prove to be better than Messi. So no matter what he does, I feel those who prefer Messi will continue to prefer him regardless. Which is fine I guess. But Ronaldo’s achievements simply cannot be downplayed.

You're preaching to the choir here. This is exactly what I'm saying, there is no persuading the traditional football viewers, because in their views a player must have a certain playing style (i.e. very good at dribbling and playmaking) to be a GOAT.

If Cristiano does the unthinkable and leads his team to a World Cup at the age of 37, then people may just finally put their hands in the air and give up having digs at Cristiano that he "can't dribble, is a tap-in merchant, a narcissist", etc..

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Nah its criminal not to have CR7 in the top 10 at least. He was electric before he centered most of his game around being a goal poacher.

Just for his numbers and being the ultimate professional Ronaldo of course does deserve to be well within the top 10 but i ask myself the question if I could only pick one player in history to pay to watch who would it be? And personally I would pick any of the players I mentioned and a few more before Ronaldo. My own top 3 in order would be Best, Messi, Maradonna

 

[MalcolmTucker]

You're preaching to the choir here. This is exactly what I'm saying, there is no persuading the traditional football viewers, because in their views a player must have a certain playing style (i.e. very good at dribbling and playmaking) to be a GOAT.

If Cristiano does the unthinkable and leads his team to a World Cup at the age of 37, then people may just finally put their hands in the air and give up having digs at Cristiano that he "can't dribble, is a tap-in merchant, a narcissist", etc..

Well it depends how he actually performs - if he plays like he did in the Euros where Portugal won he won't change many people's minds.

 

[Heardy]

There's too many variables to try and pick the GOAT. It's a personal choice on what makes a player and personally I wouldn't have Ronaldo in the top 5 maybe even top 10 as GOAT. I'm not saying he's not a phenomenal player because he obviously is but watching players like Messi, Best, Maradona, Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho gives me a lot more joy watching them than watching Ronaldo. Magicians vs machine.

Whilst I have no right in challenging which players give you joy in watching them play, objectively speaking it would be mental to not include Cristiano Ronaldo in a top 10 list.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

It cracks me up when Ronaldo names himself

Messi wins by a landslide. Also over half of Ronaldo votes were from teammates, ex-teammates and compatriots. Only 19% of the Messi votes were Messi's ex-teammates and managers.

Weird that @SportingCP96

 

[Spaghetti]

He also took 12 penalties vs 5 for Messi. Juve also conceded 5 more league goals than Barca did; hardly the mark of a more defensive team.

Regardless, I find it mind boggling that someone can have looked at this past season and decided it pushes Ronaldo ahead of Messi. If you already felt he was better, then sure fair enough. That this year somehow tipped the scales is bizarre.

It wasn’t me that said last season pushed Ronaldo ahead, by the way. I didn’t realise that Juve conceded more than Barça, either. I should have checked that.

I live in Barcelona and a lot of people blamed Barça’s lack of trophies on Messi. He went on long goal droughts and topped up his tally with 3 or 4 goal hauls against the likes of Celta Vigo. But the main problem they have seems to be that Messi became obsessed with breaking assist records, rather than scoring himself. And, in a weird way, they were right.

Personally, I much prefer Ronaldo but Messi is the better player over the last 15 or so years.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Whilst I have no right in challenging which players give you joy in watching them play, objectively speaking it would be mental to not include Cristiano Ronaldo in a top 10 list.

My earlier reply. There's no denying Ronaldo does deserve to be right up there but just not on my list.

Just for his numbers and being the ultimate professional Ronaldo of course does deserve to be well within the top 10 but i ask myself the question if I could only pick one player in history to pay to watch who would it be? And personally I would pick any of the players I mentioned and a few more before Ronaldo. My own top 3 in order would be Best, Messi, Maradonna

 

[Shark]

There's too many variables to try and pick the GOAT. It's a personal choice on what makes a player and personally I wouldn't have Ronaldo in the top 5 maybe even top 10 as GOAT. I'm not saying he's not a phenomenal player because he obviously is but watching players like Messi, Best, Maradona, Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho gives me a lot more joy watching them than watching Ronaldo. Magicians vs machine.

That's a bit bonkers to me. I'd have the Ronaldo that was at United alone in my top five, let alone what he became afterwards for Madrid.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

You forgot R9 who at his best didn't have to hide from anyone and probably would've rendered this thread unnecessary if those injuries didn't occur Also Zico and di Stefano.

I put R9 and Zico in the tier below with the likes of Zidane, Baggio, Baresi.

The post I responded to already named Di Stefano.

 

[Pexbo]

There's too many variables to try and pick the GOAT. It's a personal choice on what makes a player and personally I wouldn't have Ronaldo in the top 5 maybe even top 10 as GOAT. I'm not saying he's not a phenomenal player because he obviously is but watching players like Messi, Best, Maradona, Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho gives me a lot more joy watching them than watching Ronaldo. Magicians vs machine.

Ronaldo as a simple goal machine is such a ridiculous myth and oversight of what Ronaldo the player has been for the last two decades. This idea that he’s just some sort of big man up front who smashes goals in is almost a reductio ad absurdum type argument. Ronaldo in full flight when he was in his prime was every bit as exciting as any of the players mentioned. He was a force of nature with a bag of tricks. In his early years at United he was criticised for being a show pony with no end product which just goes to show how ridiculous your argument is.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

It wasn’t me that said last season pushed Ronaldo ahead, by the way. I didn’t realise that Juve conceded more than Barça, either. I should have checked that.

I live in Barcelona and a lot of people blamed Barça’s lack of trophies on Messi. He went on long goal droughts and topped up his tally with 3 or 4 goal hauls against the likes of Celta Vigo. But the main problem they have seems to be that Messi became obsessed with breaking assist records, rather than scoring himself. And, in a weird way, they were right.

Personally, I much prefer Ronaldo but Messi is the better player over the last 15 or so years.

No worries mate wasn't trying to take a shot at you or anything!

 

[Zehner]

I put R9 and Zico in the tier below with the likes of Zidane, Baggio, Baresi.

The post I responded to already named Di Stefano.

Nah, prime-R9 played a different game than those three I think Incredible player. Talentwise he has no equal.

 

[SportingCP96]

“Simply surpassed” according to who? To you and your circle of Portuguese fans. Continuously repeating the same belief does not make it a fact. The fact is most polls have messi in front. Fact is ballon-dor award has messi in front. CR7 may have won more team awards but messi has more individual awards, you can argue on the validity of those awards but facts are facts, and facts pointed to messi being a superior individual player. So do not paint you and your circle’s opinions as a fact, it is honestly irritating

The tie breaker years ago was always “whoever manages to do it for there country”

He did that. He also is the greatest CL player of all time (arguably the best competition in the whole sport)

Superior intangibles as well to go with his elite talent.

Like I said Messi may well be the most talented but Ronaldo is no doubt the Greatest.

 

[chicha14]

You are?

Not sure the purpose of that screenshot? I never once inclined that player A or B had more important goals or less important goals than the next player?
You posted a screenshot about Messi's season and I commented on that?

 

[Andycoleno9]

The tie breaker years ago was always “whoever manages to do it for there country”

He did that. He also is the greatest CL player of all time (arguably the best competition in the whole sport)

Superior intangibles as well to go with his elite talent.

Like I said Messi may well be the most talented but Ronaldo is no doubt the Greatest.

For Portuguese people yes, but for the rest of the world it is Messi. If there is a poll where all people who watch football could vote it would be 80:20 for Messi. Look at what coaches and players say (those who are not their teammates); nearly all say Messi without doubt.

 

[GuyfromAustria]

Over 500 pages

It is a ridiculous number, but this thread only started in 2015, there has been much more discussion in lots of other threads here.

This thread about Messi started in 2008: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lionel-messi.225097/
Look at the first page, even back then there was only one topic. (quote: "FFS, this is turning into another Messi Vs Ronaldo thread.")

 

[Zehner]

The tie breaker years ago was always “whoever manages to do it for there country”

No it wasn't.

He did that. He also is the greatest CL player of all time (arguably the best competition in the whole sport)

In your opinion.

Superior intangibles as well to go with his elite talent.

Whatever this means. Suppose "clutch" and stuff.

Like I said Messi may well be the most talented but Ronaldo is no doubt the Greatest.

In your opinion. In mine, Messi is not the most talented and Ronaldo is not the greatest.

 

[Bole Top]

Arda Turan: "Ronaldo is my friend and it's not my place to question his quality. But I think Messi is better and every person I have talked to about this agrees with me. Except the people who are close to Ronaldo, his teammates, who say it's Ronaldo as they answer politically."

that settles it.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

The tie breaker years ago was always “whoever manages to do it for there country”

He did that. He also is the greatest CL player of all time (arguably the best competition in the whole sport)

Superior intangibles as well to go with his elite talent.

Like I said Messi may well be the most talented but Ronaldo is no doubt the Greatest.

So Messi sets god knows how many chances on a platter for Higuain in the final of the World Cup but he's penalized for that performance while Ronaldo goes off injured and his teammates win it for him yet this is a point in his favour? It'd be one thing if Ronaldo was top scorer in the tournament perhaps but he had half as many as Griezmann.

I just don't understand attributing team success to an individual player, especially when said individual misses 90% of the final.