Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[MalcolmTucker]

And here’s a video of chances created by Ronaldo last season


Of course Messi is easily the better playmaking. But for those who think Ronaldo is a pure poacher who does nothing else on the pitch, need to watch this.

Yeah, it's unfair to say Ronaldo does nothing but score tap-ins, whoever does is just exaggerating but I will say, that video doesn't look like a showcase for the best player in the world does it?

Found my way onto this video this morning - intro is embarrassing but always nice to remind yourself of the magical moments that Messi has shown over the years.

 

[Prometheus]

Oh, the quotations have begun! For a second I thought I was in the Scholes thread!

 

[roonster09]

Someone asked me to post this on his behalf because he doesn't have enough likes to post images yet
.

Good post, some of the passes are just amazing, makes even the best ever playmakers proud of those passes.

 

[KirkDuyt]

@Mogget

That's a great post and a good example of the fact that football is more than goal / assist stats.

thank you.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Yeah, it's unfair to say Ronaldo does nothing but score tap-ins, whoever does is just exaggerating but I will say, that video doesn't look like a showcase for the best player in the world does it?

Found my way onto this video this morning - intro is embarrassing but always nice to remind yourself of the magical moments that Messi has shown over the years.

He isn’t the best playmaker in the world for sure. The video only show the supposingly “weakest” part of his game from last season only.

And yes, Messi is one of the best playmaker (in the final third) I’ve ever seen.

 

[Zehner]

Because 99% of the time the player who touched the ball last was the main reason the goal happened. Even in that example, was Berbatov's assist to Ronaldo more important to the goal than the movement and finish? If Berbatov doesn't do what he did then Ronaldo wouldn't have scored, if Ronaldo doesn't move off the ball the way he did it doesn't end in a goal. So how can you measure something like that?

You can't measure it. That is why I talk about qualitative analysis all the time. Statistics, even the ones I've posted, only take you so far.
But I still think that you disregard the technical dimension. Yes, the goal would not have happened without Ronaldo running into position. Yet Berbatov also had to make his run in the first place and understand the game situation, just like Cristiano, but the technical execution was much more difficult/more demanding. The difficult things in football are considered the most important because there are fewer players who can do them. Your argument "but without his run the goal wouldn't have come to existence" isn't false but the problem I see with that is that you can make it in every situation. If I play a really easy pass to you, you start dribbling five players and lob it over the goalie, you could also argue that the goal would not have happened without me passing the ball to you but everybody knows that more or less any player on the field could have made the pass I just made and the praise for the goal should be on you. This is of course an extreme example so please just understand it as an illustration of what I mean.

And thus you would need to evaluate every goal on its own. I for instance have the impression that in the majority of cases the build up of the goal was more demanding than its conversion. Sometimes the transitional momentum in the midfield is most important, sometimes a dribbling on the flanks or in the midfield that creates space for a team mate, sometimes a long ball and so on. Iniesta exemplarily was absolute master class in this regard at certain points in his career. He made so many goals happen without ending up on the scoring sheet. Arguably, his best seasons are the ones with the least amount of scorers.
Messi on the other hand scores and assists a lot but Barcelona also scores a lot of goals in which he was quite instrumental without getting out with something accountable.
I feel like this doesn't get the attention it deserves, especially in the media coverage. Sometimes I sit in front of the TV and ask myself how on earth they decided to not show any replays of that brillant play of player XYZ that just took two or three opponents out of the game. Or when they show a replay of a goal, they cut out the most important part in its emergence.

 

[Cal?]

Someone asked me to post this on his behalf because he doesn't have enough likes to post images yet

Very odd post. 2015 was only three years ago, so we don't need to look at primitive numbers to gauge Messi's performance. He put up some ludicrous displays, the 2014-15 season was at the peak of Messi's playmaking ability.

Anyone? If Messi was at the peak of his playmaking ability, playing with the likes of Neymar and Suarez, surely Barca should be scoring more goals?

The ultimate aim of football is to score goals, I don't think you can argue with that. So if Messi was contributing much more in 14/15 than Ronaldo in 16/17 as you suggested. Even if he didn't score the goals himself, his TEAM should be scoring lots of goals right?

Team - Group - L16 - QF - SF - F
Barca 14/15 - 15 - 3 - 5 - 5 - 3
Real 16/17 - 16 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 4

So basically Real have outscored Barca every stage of the competition.

 

[Zehner]

Anyone? If Messi was at the peak of his playmaking ability, playing with the likes of Neymar and Suarez, surely Barca should be scoring more goals?

How proud you are of this absolute nonsense argument has almost comical dimensions

 

[Cal?]

How proud you are of this absolute nonsense argument has almost comical dimensions

How you don't seem to have any reply other than playground insults tells its own story.

 

[Zehner]

How you don't seem to have any reply other than playground insults tells its own story.

This argumentation indeed left me speechless.

 

[Lord SInister]

I'm not saying he doesn't perform well, but Barca never needed to win that game and having scored a few minutes into the game, they were never really in any danger.

That's the opposite of dragging them through.

They never needed to win the game?
Sorry but had he not scored in the early minutes, Chelsea might have done a Roma. As we saw if Messi is not on the top of his Game Barcelona are gash. It only required one bad performance from him vs Roma in away leg to expose Barcelona's over dependence on him.

Plus his first leg goal was absolutely crucial.

Plus talking about dragging, you are limiting it to scoring last minute winners, just like you limit goal scoring prowess to scoring in UCL Qf, SF, Final.

 

[Cal?]

They never needed to win the game?
Sorry but had he not scored in the early minutes, Chelsea might have done a Roma. As we saw if Messi is not on the top of his Game Barcelona are gash. It only required one bad performance from him vs Roma in away leg to expose Barcelona's over dependence on him.

Plus his first leg goal was absolutely crucial.

Plus talking about dragging, you are limiting it to scoring last minute winners, just like you limit goal scoring prowess to scoring in UCL Qf, SF, Final.

There's clearly a difference between just generally playing well in general (Chelsea game) and dragging them thru whilst they're struggling.

IT's true they never needed to win the game, 0-0 would have taken them through on away goals.

 

[Lord SInister]

As posted on the last page:

If Messi was doing so much, Barca as a team should be scoring more than Real. No?

why are we limiting everything on goals?
Is it because it suits someone, lol.

Anyways barcelona was structured to have three players scoring the bulk, I mean 27goals where scored by MSN, with only three players scoring the rest four.
while Real Madrid had 11 players scoring 22goals, other than Cristiano(12). While 2goals were own goals.

If goals are divided across the field, the team which has more players with habit of nicking goals, will score more.

Barcelona did'nt had that luxury, but their three forwards, led by Messi were enough for most defences.


anyways, it is okay if you think CR7 in 2016-17 UCL the greatest thing since eternity, I don't think it is better than Messi in 2014/15, so better rest our case on mutual disagreement.

 

[La Pulga]

I know people will remain entitled to their own opinions, but I sense that in this thread it is more like a battle to be honest IMO Messi is the GOAT or the best player I've ever seen "I was not born when Pele or Maradona were playing". I do not like watching highlights because it shows the great moments also, but for instance, I do not know how bad Maradona's level was when he was not having a good day, I do not know how his team reacted then, I do not know whether Argentina 1986 overall team was average/good/bad or the level of competition or who were supposed to be the ultimate favorites before the tournament,...etc. But, I watched Ronaldo's and Messi's careers and I know how consistent they were. Why I see Messi as the best is because of the following:

- The best goalscorers I've ever seen are: Ronaldo, Messi, R9, Batistuta, Shevchenko, Henry,...etc and without a shadow of a doubt, Messi can be compared to the best of them "Cristiano Ronaldo" in terms of number of goals, consistency, goals per game ratio, golden balls and Pichichi awards.

- The best Playmakers I've ever seen are: Zidane, Iniesta, Ronaldinho, maybe Ozil, David Silva, Rui Costa, Riquelme, Bergkamp,..etc and Messi's playmaking abilities are comparable to all those players IMO.

- The best Dribblers I've ever seen are: Ronaldinho, Neymar, Robben, R9,....etc and Messi is a better than all of them or at least can be compared to them in terms of dribbling. IMO, he is better because his dribbles are not that fancy compared to Ronaldinho for example, but they lead to something more often than not.

Cristiano is a great player and I adore his dedication, but I do not see him brilliant at anything other than scoring. He was a good dribbler, but not one of the best. He is the best at heading the ball, finishing, movement and anticipation inside the area, but all of those attributes are different ways of scoring Goals.

 

[saivet]

Just watching Ronaldo's insta live. Reeling off the languages. How many languages does Messi speak?

 

[SirAF]

I know people will remain entitled to their own opinions, but I sense that in this thread it is more like a battle to be honest IMO Messi is the GOAT or the best player I've ever seen "I was not born when Pele or Maradona were playing". I do not like watching highlights because it shows the great moments also, but for instance, I do not know how bad Maradona's level was when he was not having a good day, I do not know how his team reacted then, I do not know whether Argentina 1986 overall team was average/good/bad or the level of competition or who were supposed to be the ultimate favorites before the tournament,...etc. But, I watched Ronaldo's and Messi's careers and I know how consistent they were. Why I see Messi as the best is because of the following:

- The best goalscorers I've ever seen are: Ronaldo, Messi, R9, Batistuta, Shevchenko, Henry,...etc and without a shadow of a doubt, Messi can be compared to the best of them "Cristiano Ronaldo" in terms of number of goals, consistency, goals per game ratio, golden balls and Pichichi awards.

- The best Playmakers I've ever seen are: Zidane, Iniesta, Ronaldinho, maybe Ozil, David Silva, Rui Costa, Riquelme, Bergkamp,..etc and Messi's playmaking abilities are comparable to all those players IMO.

- The best Dribblers I've ever seen are: Ronaldinho, Neymar, Robben, R9,....etc and Messi is a better than all of them or at least can be compared to them in terms of dribbling. IMO, he is better because his dribbles are not that fancy compared to Ronaldinho for example, but they lead to something more often than not.

Cristiano is a great player and I adore his dedication, but I do not see him brilliant at anything other than scoring. He was a good dribbler, but not one of the best. He is the best at heading the ball, finishing, movement and anticipation inside the area, but all of those attributes are different ways of scoring Goals.

Supports: Barcelona

Checks out

 

[Mogget]

Supports: Barcelona

Checks out

If only he was as impartial and objective as you.

 

[SirAF]

If only he was as impartial and objective as you.

Yes, that is exactly what I said.

 

[Sarmz]

Anyone? If Messi was at the peak of his playmaking ability, playing with the likes of Neymar and Suarez, surely Barca should be scoring more goals?

Except they did score plenty of goals. In the 2014-15 season, the trio of Messi (58), Suárez (24), and Neymar (38) set the Spanish record for most goals by a trio of players.

Reducing the contribution of footballers to goals and assists shows that you have a fundamentally flawed understanding of the sport.

 

[Charles Miller]

I know people will remain entitled to their own opinions, but I sense that in this thread it is more like a battle to be honest IMO Messi is the GOAT or the best player I've ever seen "I was not born when Pele or Maradona were playing". I do not like watching highlights because it shows the great moments also, but for instance, I do not know how bad Maradona's level was when he was not having a good day, I do not know how his team reacted then, I do not know whether Argentina 1986 overall team was average/good/bad or the level of competition or who were supposed to be the ultimate favorites before the tournament,...etc. But, I watched Ronaldo's and Messi's careers and I know how consistent they were. Why I see Messi as the best is because of the following:

- The best goalscorers I've ever seen are: Ronaldo, Messi, R9, Batistuta, Shevchenko, Henry,...etc and without a shadow of a doubt, Messi can be compared to the best of them "Cristiano Ronaldo" in terms of number of goals, consistency, goals per game ratio, golden balls and Pichichi awards.

- The best Playmakers I've ever seen are: Zidane, Iniesta, Ronaldinho, maybe Ozil, David Silva, Rui Costa, Riquelme, Bergkamp,..etc and Messi's playmaking abilities are comparable to all those players IMO.

- The best Dribblers I've ever seen are: Ronaldinho, Neymar, Robben, R9,....etc and Messi is a better than all of them or at least can be compared to them in terms of dribbling. IMO, he is better because his dribbles are not that fancy compared to Ronaldinho for example, but they lead to something more often than not.

Cristiano is a great player and I adore his dedication, but I do not see him brilliant at anything other than scoring. He was a good dribbler, but not one of the best. He is the best at heading the ball, finishing, movement and anticipation inside the area, but all of those attributes are different ways of scoring Goals.

How could you get away with this nick?

 

[Cal?]

Except they did score plenty of goals. In the 2014-15 season, the trio of Messi (58), Suárez (24), and Neymar (38) set the Spanish record for most goals by a trio of players.

Reducing the contribution of footballers to goals and assists shows that you have a fundamentally flawed understanding of the sport.

That was a direct reply to some claiming Messi was as important in the CL 14/15 as Ronaldo 16/17.

How many they scored in La Liga is irrelevant.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Anyone? If Messi was at the peak of his playmaking ability, playing with the likes of Neymar and Suarez, surely Barca should be scoring more goals?

That was a direct reply to some claiming Messi was as important in the CL 14/15 as Ronaldo 16/17.

How many they scored in La Liga is irrelevant.

I'll take Messi's Bayern performance over Ronaldo's display and I don't think I've ever seen Ronaldo have a game as good as Messi had against Man City, no matter how many goals he scored - feel free to list a load of numbers, statistics and laughing smileys, because you certainly won't be posting footage of Ronaldo actually playing better.



I'd be curious to know out of these two performances you rate the best Cal?

 

[Cal?]

I'll take Messi's Bayern performance over Ronaldo's display and I don't think I've ever seen Ronaldo have a game as good as Messi had against Man City, no matter how many goals he scored - feel free to list a load of numbers, statistics and laughing smileys, because you certainly won't be posting footage of Ronaldo actually playing better.



I'd be curious to know out of these two performances you rate the best Cal?

So Messi playing brilliantly somehow results in his team scoring fewer goals than Ronaldo playing not so well (according to you?)

I'm not even talking about individual goals here, surely his TEAM should be scoring more if he was as good as you claim he was.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

So Messi playing brilliantly somehow results in his team scoring fewer goals than Ronaldo playing not so well (according to you?)

I'm not even talking about individual goals here, surely his TEAM should be scoring more if he was as good as you claim he was.

Did you bother watching the Man City vid? I guess not (you should watch it, it was a great performance), Messi set up 5 clear cut chances that his team mates missed. There's so many variables at play that I have to admire your blind pursuit at thinking it's a good point. There are plenty of avenues for argument which make Ronaldo come out looking good but this current one of yours is a bizarre bit of logic.

Also, you never answered my question about which of those two performances you rate better; the Bayern or the Man City one? In fact I'd like to challenge you to post a video (not a series of statistics) in which Ronaldo played as good as Messi did in that City game, doesn't even have to be a CL KO game despite Ronaldo being the king of the them currently. I bet you won't.

 

[Zehner]

In fact I'd like to challenge you to post a video (not a series of statistics) in which Ronaldo played as good as Messi did in that City game, doesn't even have to be a CL KO game despite Ronaldo being the king of the them currently. I bet you won't.

I doubt he thinks that these were great videos. Too much dribbling, passing, one twos and other ineffective crap distracting from goal scoring. Would provably have cut the Man City one down to 0 seconds. I mean, there hasn't been a single cross or header, how can anyone watch this?

 

[Cal?]

Did you bother watching the Man City vid? I guess not (you should watch it, it was a great performance), Messi set up 5 clear cut chances that his team mates missed. There's so many variables at play that I have to admire your blind pursuit at thinking it's a good point. There are plenty of avenues for argument which make Ronaldo come out looking good but this current one of yours is a bizarre bit of logic.

Also, you never answered my question about which of those two performances you rate better; the Bayern or the Man City one? In fact I'd like to challenge you to post a video (not a series of statistics) in which Ronaldo played as good as Messi did in that City game, doesn't even have to be a CL KO game despite Ronaldo being the king of the them currently. I bet you won't.

So now you're going to blame it on Suarez and Neymar missing chances?

Anyway, either of Ronaldo against Bayern or AM last season where better.

 

[Prometheus]

So now you're going to blame it on Suarez and Neymar missing chances?

Anyway, either of Ronaldo against Bayern or AM last season where better.

He wants a video of Ronaldo nutmegging people and stuff. The new of way judging things. It's amusing how the criteria have shifted since Ronaldo has become the better player over the last few years.

 

[LungiDevil]

I'll take Messi's Bayern performance over Ronaldo's display and I don't think I've ever seen Ronaldo have a game as good as Messi had against Man City, no matter how many goals he scored - feel free to list a load of numbers, statistics and laughing smileys, because you certainly won't be posting footage of Ronaldo actually playing better.



I'd be curious to know out of these two performances you rate the best Cal?

I spent 12 minutes watching that video and objectively that's not true. Well may be it's true, as you have just not watched enough football. I can count 3 clear cut chances created (one converted), 3 free kicks from decent positions, 1 hard chance missed, 2 great chances missed and a couple of speculative shots from outside. And a number of dribbles which almost led to something and were pretty on the eye. A great game for sure, but saying Ronaldo never had as good a game is stretching it.

 

[zing]

So Messi playing brilliantly somehow results in his team scoring fewer goals than Ronaldo playing not so well (according to you?)

I'm not even talking about individual goals here, surely his TEAM should be scoring more if he was as good as you claim he was.

This is such an obtuse argument that it's honestly not worth a reply. This is the amazing thing about the internet - you can be as stupid as you want with zero accountability.

Just to re-iterate, by the same framework, a team that wins by 1 goal is worse than a team that won by 2 goals.. and so on. Even if you claim that holds true if the opponent is a constant, it shows a baffling lack of understanding of how football works. You've wasted 15 years watching football. 15 years.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

I spent 12 minutes watching that video and objectively that's not true. Well may be it's true, as you have just not watched enough football. I can count 3 clear cut chances created (one converted), 3 free kicks from decent positions, 1 hard chance missed, 2 great chances missed and a couple of speculative shots from outside. And a number of dribbles which almost led to something and were pretty on the eye. A great game for sure, but saying Ronaldo never had as good a game is stretching it.

Well go on then, post a video. I can remember some great games of Ronaldo when he was with us but they weren't really against good teams - I remember watching a game for Real against Sevilla I think and he scored two great goals and was a constant threat but Messi has had much better games than the City one against smaller teams.

Anyway, either of Ronaldo against Bayern or AM last season where better.

Hmm let's see...


vs.


Watch them both - do you truly believe Ronaldo played better? That Bayern performance looks better written down than when you actually watch it.

 

[SirAF]

That’s the second time you post that Messi vid on this page!

 

[LungiDevil]

Well go on then, post a video. I can remember some great games of Ronaldo when he was with us but they weren't really against good teams - I remember watching a game for Real against Sevilla I think and he scored two great goals and was a constant threat but Messi has had much better games than the City one against smaller teams.



Hmm let's see...


vs.


Watch them both - do you truly believe Ronaldo played better? That Bayern performance looks better written down than when you actually watch it.

All I am saying is at the end of the day, it boils down to 1 assist, two additional chances created and missing a couple. From a throughput perspective, both Messi and Ronaldo have had better games against similar oppositions.

Messi is a better dribbler than Ronaldo, IMO. And your examples are centered around that. Ronaldo is no slouch either, but for sure you'll never find him dribbling as efficiently as him. There is no discussion there.

The crux is what is a "Great Game"? I'd like to define it as solely, or majorly, being responsible for helping their team win a game and greatness by extension for being the driver in a cup/championship. In other words, if I replace that person with another player, the result would have been most likely different. Both Ronaldo and Messi have a zillion examples of such games against many oppositions.

This is where statistics, videos, highlight reels also go out of the picture. Deep down you know if Ronaldo / Messi was not a part of the Barca/RM teams they wouldn't have won as much. Every other role is replaceable in those teams.

A simple example, I would not have liked anybody other than Ronaldo (may be Lewandowski) among the current lot to take that penalty against Juve if my life depended on it. On a highlight reel it looks easy, but nothing close to easy in reality.

For what its worth, I believe Messi edges it against Ronaldo overall. But statements like Ronaldo never had a game as good as Messi did at X,Y,Z is just a personal bias, IMO.

 

[Apocalypse]

That’s the second time you post that Messi vid on this page!

Probably because of the sheer ignorance of people ignoring it whilst trying to make up some weird view of Ronaldo having better Champions League games, he hasn't. His best performances were in his early Madrid career/late Utd career. As he's become more of a poacher his scoring records have become the stuff of legends, his performances outside of it have regressed massively. In the two ties Vs Juve outside of the goals (one a worldie), he was being questioned for being so quiet. Modric, Marcelo and co cover it up quite well.

Fact is - Ronaldo is a finisher, Messi is a creator who just so happens to contribute as many goals as Ronaldo can. One is defined by how many shots he puts in the back of the net, the other isn't. It's beyond tedious how it circles back to all the goals Ronaldo has scored in knockout games. You'd think he were doing a Messi Vs Madrid every match the way some harp on here. Tedious.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Football enjoyment for me is about moments that make you put your hands on your head and say “wow”

Ronaldo’s overhead kick is the only time he’s done that to me in recent years, Messi does it almost every game.

 

[RedDington9]

Those tournaments Ronaldo missed games out for Portugal or played with one knee, because he tried giving his all from start to finish all season playing against Getafes, Eibars, etc. and other clubs not worth expending energy/his body on. Yeah, that's gone and now you got him choosing when he wants to score.

And this time he will be as fresh as he wants for the World Cup.

If you think he doesn't plan to give this tournament his absolute all, you haven't been paying attention the past few years, Never mind his career. If he gets another knee injury in the final this time, he will not leave that field. He will die on it. No Game will matter after this World Cup for his legacy and he has money that will sustain his family for generations beyond the eye can see, with or without playing.

It's his last shot to elevate what he's already accomplished and his only shot at the throne as the King of Football. And he'll do anything he can to attain it. Because its his nature. Because he shows this dominion nature in the Champions League, the most difficult competition in the sport's history.

And that level of impact he uses in the Champions League is all he’ll need for the World Cup. But he's going to bring more. This tournament will be Cristiano Ronaldo at his peak. Where he will refine the last bit of consciousness he needs to end up playing a game of football only he knows exists. And he can let the rest of the World laugh their final laughs, for they had decided long before Cristiano could show them, that he will never be better than Messi. And know he will have the last laugh. That he’s been the one laughing back at the world for years, even if he or they did not know it, and that Portugal's national anthem will be playing in Moscow on July 15.

Ronaldo captains Portugal to their first title while Messi can't even win an inferior competition like the Copa America. Twice. And he already lost a World Cup final. It’s not in the cards for him. Not by chance, but by destiny. It’s why he saved Portugal from going out against Hungary at Euro 2016 with two great goals and a great assist. Who scored the all-important first goal in the semi-final that led to Portugal's second final and first tournament win? Who scored the first all-important goal in the semi-final that led to Portugal's first final ever when he was 19? Who was voted by every publication the best Portuguese player (and by some, on the entire field) in his country's second only World Cup semi-final in 2006? In a team that had Figo, Deco. etc. against Zidane's France? Who, in some of the national team’s worst days, had their team require him to single-handedly even drag them to the 2014 World Cup? The answer to all the above is Cristiano Ronaldo.

And unlike that 2006 World Cup, he’s the leader now. He is the essence of the team and at the peak of his scoring ability. And Portugal has its best generation of youth ever (many already with the experience of winning a European Championship, including a good number that played a pivotal part). The amount of Portuguese talent spattered around top-level clubs is proof of this. And that means that this is the only chance Portugal has to ever win the World Cup, because a combination of Cristiano Ronaldo and youth talent will never happen again. Because there will never be another Cristiano Ronaldo. For Portugal. Or all football.

The pieces are good enough for Portugal to win a World Cup where there is no Great Spain or any team of comparable quality.

This World Cup will be an open competition.

And Ronaldo will take advantage of this. Like he ALWAYS does.

 

[Daysleeper]

Top 20 LaLiga players with the biggest participation in creating goals by assists + pre-assists per 90 minutes:

 

[RedDington9]

Football enjoyment for me is about moments that make you put your hands on your head and say “wow”

Ronaldo’s overhead kick is the only time he’s done that to me in recent years, Messi does it almost every game.

And this represents why those who believe Messi to be the better footballer are wrong.

This sport isn't decided by "wows", it's decided by goals. If you want "wows", Messi is the clear winner.

But if you want to win a football game. Cristiano Ronaldo is the best choice. Always.

Remember folks, achievement lives in history. Talent does not.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

All I am saying is at the end of the day, it boils down to 1 assist, two additional chances created and missing a couple. From a throughput perspective, both Messi and Ronaldo have had better games against similar oppositions.

Messi is a better dribbler than Ronaldo, IMO. And your examples are centered around that. Ronaldo is no slouch either, but for sure you'll never find him dribbling as efficiently as him. There is no discussion there.

The crux is what is a "Great Game"? I'd like to define it as solely, or majorly, being responsible for helping their team win a game and greatness by extension for being the driver in a cup/championship. In other words, if I replace that person with another player, the result would have been most likely different. Both Ronaldo and Messi have a zillion examples of such games against many oppositions.

This is where statistics, videos, highlight reels also go out of the picture. Deep down you know if Ronaldo / Messi was not a part of the Barca/RM teams they wouldn't have won as much. Every other role is replaceable in those teams.

A simple example, I would not have liked anybody other than Ronaldo (may be Lewandowski) among the current lot to take that penalty against Juve if my life depended on it. On a highlight reel it looks easy, but nothing close to easy in reality.

For what its worth, I believe Messi edges it against Ronaldo overall. But statements like Ronaldo never had a game as good as Messi did at X,Y,Z is just a personal bias, IMO.

So no videos, I thought so. My examples aren't centred around dribbling, they aren't dribbling compilations, they are two games from the CL campaigns we were comparing. Funnily they work as a perfect macrocosm of the Ronaldo vs. Messi debate; Ronaldo gets his 3 goals without being impressive and Messi gets none but is, except Messi usually scores.

You say it's personal bias but the only bias I have is that I love football, I didn't say Ronaldo has never played as well as Messi did in that City game for a fact, I just suspected and I'd happily be proven wrong as I love watching great players, but so far no one has offered any example yet, including you.

 

[Peyroteo]

I don't think I've ever seen Ronaldo have a game as good as Messi had against Man City

What??? Last year vs Napoli he created about the same number of chances as Messi did in the City game for example and it's nowhere even close to being one of his best games.

If Messi doesn't nutmeg anyone, creates 1 or 2 less chances but instead scored the 2 big chances he missed would it have been a better or a worse game for him?

 

[Deleted member 101472]

And this represents why those who believe Messi to be the better footballer are wrong.

This sport isn't decided by "wows", it's decided by goals. If you want "wows", Messi is the clear winner.

But if you want to win a football game. Cristiano Ronaldo is the best choice. Always.

Remember folks, achievement lives in history. Talent does not.

Yeah that would be understandable if he didn’t have the individual records and individual/team trophies. It’s not like anyone will ever look back on what he’s done and not think he’s one of if not the greatest ever.