Messi's performances in these matches are better than Ronaldo's in the ones you mentioned
I specifically said CL, I'm not sure what your point is regarding the Liga+CL stats. Do you want me to list the CL scoring stats those 3 seasons?He was by far the best player? We can just take a simple breakdown of stats to show that is not true by any means.
2015/2016 La liga + CL:
Messi: 32 goals, 17 assists. (Messi was injured a lot this season and missed like 13 games IIRC)
Ronaldo: 51 goals, 15 assists.
2016/2017 La liga + CL:
Messi: 48 goals, 11 assists.
Ronaldo 37 goals, 12 assists.
2017/2018 La liga + CL:
Messi: 40 goals, 14 assists
Ronaldo 41 goals, 7 assists.
He has worse individual performance from a stats perspective in 2/3 seasons and only a better one in the season Messi was injured a lot. Not sure how you can with a straight face say he was "By far" the better player.
The thing with you, Cal, is that you're so dogmatic and unreasonably biased. Your dislike for Messi is so clear with demeaning comments such as "crying and quitting" and hyperbolic statements as "The 2nd best player in the world occasionally showing his worth in the CL after 3 years of doing feck-all."
You decide what qualifies as better based on whatever Ronaldo does better on. If Messi and Ronaldo swapped achievements and stats these last 3 years and Messi won 3x CLs in a row, you'd argue that CL is a knockout competition with a lot of luck involved (which it is) and Ronaldo is clearly the superior player for his domestic record of 3 Copas, better individual stats and 2 league titles.
But because you're so dogmatic in your worship for Ronaldo, CL is now the one deciding factor for what qualifies as the best player. I'll grant you that Ronaldo has had better CL performances these last 3 years, but you act as if Ronaldo himself was the one who dragged a rugged and awful Real to every CL title. Ronaldo had plenty of games where he wasn't good but where Real Madrid pulled through as a team.
Finally, honestly embarrassing that you think 2 headers and a penalty is better than what Messi produced vs Bayern in 2014/2015 or what he did yesterday.
No it’s not, look at how many chances Messi created against Liverpool as oppose to Ronaldo.I specifically said CL, I'm not sure what your point is regarding the Liga+CL stats. Do you want me to list the CL scoring stats those 3 seasons?
Also, you go on and on about how Messi was injured for parts of 15/16 and conveniently leaves out the fact Ronaldo actually missed more game in 16/17? Never let the facts get in the way...
Messi did cry and quit after the Copa debacle where his country without him soundly beat Chile, but he shows up for the final to lose the game for them. It's also true that for their standards, Messi did go missing for 3 years in the CL, there's go glossing over that.
I've never denied Ronaldo needed a team that could support him to win the CL (his failure this season is further proof), but it's the Messi brigade who pretend he doesn't need any help winning the CL.
2006 - he didn't even need to play from the QF onwards
2009 - Ovebro (or Iniesta) got them to the final
2011 - Alves getting Pepe sent off and he scored that goal, probably the year he came closest to the last 3 season Ronaldo-level CL domination
2015 - Neymar and Suarez scored most the goals, Messi himself only scored in 1 game out of 7 in the knockout stage.
It's almost laughable if you think Messi vs Liverpool was a better performance than Ronaldo basically singled-handedly turning the tie against Atletico.
You did include "United 2 weeks ago" in your list, so it's not strictly SF & Final. Are you going to pretend Arsenal in the 10s are even remotely close to any of the opponents I listed except Wolfsburg?
this debate still ragingThere's no point debating this, for Messi fans, any game he doesn't choke like Roma he was the MOTM and better than games where Ronaldo scored a hat-trick in.
We're back to the incompetence of his team mates again? Ronaldo would have been playing against Spurs if it wasn't for his team mates making basic defensive mistakes after he gave them the lead.
His goal record. You do realize that there's more to a football game than the final contact before the ball passes the line, don't you?There's no point debating this, for Messi fans, any game he doesn't choke like Roma he was the MOTM and better than games where Ronaldo scored a hat-trick in.
There's a reason why Ronaldo's record in the CL knockout stage is so much better than Messi's
I'm getting very fed up with your attitude, I offer you a chance to prove you know football so well by putting your money where your mouth is and you refuse.
What is dead may never die.
Furthermore, considering their comparable record in other competitions, are you suggesting Messi decides NOT to score as many in the CL knockout stage?
The walkers have just been defeated adex
Absolutely delusional.
Good list, I would also add the following:
Whatever mate, I won't shut up simply because I'm not wiling to spend my time on some betting competition with you just to prove a point. And I don't need that to see that you've got no clue what you're talking about.I'm getting very fed up with your attitude, I offer you a chance to prove you know football so well by putting your money where your mouth is and you refuse.
Then you act all holier than thou with you narrow minded views on football.
Prove yourself or shut up about how you know football so well.
No, I don't. What's the thought process behind that conclusion? I'm just saying that Messi's performances were better than Cristiano's overall although he scored less.Furthermore, considering their comparable record in other competitions, are you suggesting Messi decides NOT to score as many in the CL knockout stage?
Whether you know football well can easily be proven by betting on it. I do rather well myself and you clearly lack the ability to do so.
No, not really.
Congratulations, but if that's the case it just proves what I've just stated aboveI do rather well myself and you clearly lack the ability to do so.
That is because Messi can have better games than Ronaldo even if the former scores zero and the latter scores three. Why he scored less than he usual does? Don't know, if I were to guess then I'd say against top teams, he is busy doing stuff on areas of the pitch where he's less likely to score. Or in other words, the areas in which you rarely occupied by Ronaldo. Then I remember that his overall record against top teams is at least equal to Ronaldo's if not better so yeah, don't know. All I know is that Cristiano's arguably best games in the KO rounds of the CL, like his Juve and Bayern ones, didn't impress me nearly as much as Messi's best have done while his bottom level is far lower.
You said "Ronaldo best player by far when he lead Real Madrid to the CL 3-peat", responding to a post talking about la liga, world cup etc so pretty sure you didn't mean Ronaldo was the best player by far in the CL, but in general terms.I specifically said CL, I'm not sure what your point is regarding the Liga+CL stats. Do you want me to list the CL scoring stats those 3 seasons?
Also, you go on and on about how Messi was injured for parts of 15/16 and conveniently leaves out the fact Ronaldo actually missed more game in 16/17? Never let the facts get in the way...
Messi did cry and quit after the Copa debacle where his country without him soundly beat Chile, but he shows up for the final to lose the game for them. It's also true that for their standards, Messi did go missing for 3 years in the CL, there's go glossing over that.
I've never denied Ronaldo needed a team that could support him to win the CL (his failure this season is further proof), but it's the Messi brigade who pretend he doesn't need any help winning the CL.
2006 - he didn't even need to play from the QF onwards
2009 - Ovebro (or Iniesta) got them to the final
2011 - Alves getting Pepe sent off and he scored that goal, probably the year he came closest to the last 3 season Ronaldo-level CL domination
2015 - Neymar and Suarez scored most the goals, Messi himself only scored in 1 game out of 7 in the knockout stage.
It's almost laughable if you think Messi vs Liverpool was a better performance than Ronaldo basically singled-handedly turning the tie against Atletico.
Betting on it is the best way to prove if you know something, football, stocks, properties, ultimately it's all the same.No, not really.
Congratulations, but if that's the case it just proves what I've just stated above
That is because Messi can have better games than Ronaldo even if the former scores zero and the latter scores three. Why he scored less than he usual does? Don't know, if I were to guess then I'd say against top teams, he is busy doing stuff on areas of the pitch where he's less likely to score. Or in other words, the areas in which you rarely occupied by Ronaldo. Then I remember that his overall record against top teams is at least equal to Ronaldo's if not better so yeah, don't know. All I know is that Cristiano's arguably best games in the KO rounds of the CL, like his Juve and Bayern ones, didn't impress me nearly as much as Messi's best have done while his bottom level is far lower.
They'll probably lock it when Messi loses in the CL or Copa.
I appreciate the fact that Messi has dominated La Liga much more, but the CL is the bigger competition and I won't change my mind if you lot go on to win it.
Calling it insane might be over-egging it a bit, but yeah...essentially you're right.
No. I can be a great economist, that won't make be a great trader. Football bets are even worse because there's so much luck involved and the best strategy is usually not based on football knowledge. I know people that made won 10k in a month by betting on sports that aren't even broadcasted in my country. And even more so, how am I supposed to bet on EPL games when I watch maybe 10 games in the whole year? Nowadays I only watch games of my own club and international games that I am interested in.
Don't know if some did, but I wasn't one of them. That was one of the dullest performances I've seen from him since years. Of course you'd even said that if he had dribbled like his prime, only without scoring. As I said, you are simply completely clueless if you ask me. You are making arguments someone who understands how football is played would be too ashamed to make. And no, I don't want to imply that the Barca way is the true way of playing football, I acknowledge that there are many other ways to be successful that some may even find easier on the eye. But I haven't read anything from you that would imply that you even understand the basics of football.Anyway, not surprised regarding the bolded part at all. Any performance where he wasn't completely awful (Roma away), you guys try to claim he's the best player on the pitch. Didn't some of you try to claim he had a great game at OT last month?
Better to lock it after the CL final then.
That is exactly the issue here, you watch some games and decide based on nothing more than your subjective feeling about the match what constitutes a better performance.
I also think you're completely clueless, so that's something we can agree on.
I fully expect him to win the CL this year.Better to lock it after the CL final then.
Hahaha imagine comparing this year’s Atletico to the ones from 2014 and 2016 who went to the UCL
The same Atletico who are 2nd in La Liga
Not really, because I don't think Messi or Ronaldo is the best player of all time. For me, the best I have seen play is Maradona.
It's definitely implied that he's a contender for it.
No, it doesn't. I've played football my whole life, I used to watch it a lot more when I was younger and even spent much time reading in-depth tactical blogs and some coaching stuff. I've tried so many times to have a somewhat substantial discussion with you but if anyone delivers you an argument that even requires a slight understanding of football you back out and counter with an argument like "oh wow the Messi brigade boys hyping up dribbles so much again. If that's so important why has Ronaldo scored more in the KO stages of the CL?"
No you don't. You just come up with this as some strange "revenge" thing, just like you always do when you don't like someone's argument.
