Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Kasper]

Reasonable decision to close the poll. I'm using it for a quantitative analysis study on which player is better in the public eye and recent event bias is often massively influencing variance so I'm thankful that the mods are helping me out here.

Seeing how Ronaldo's rabit fans have the pitchforks out already affirms that decision, thumps up.

 

[SportingCP96]

There's no way that's true.

I doubt anyone on here had a problem with him even moving.

If they dislike him, it's for other reasons.

That could be the case too “because he’s cocky” because he’s “arrogant” “not nice “ I’ve read it all.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Another big game and Messi walks like he is in a park. Embarrassing. He's one of the biggest problems at that club.

Messi walking is a problem, but Suarez walks too and doesn't do 1/10 of Messi does.

The problem is having 2 walkers in the team. You can't compensate for that at all.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Messi is the most technically gifted player in the world but Ronaldo has had a much better career easily.

Messi is lucky to have his natural ability blend well with his 13 year old growth hormone injection whilst Ronaldo is pure training and hard work to get where he is.

As I said about Messi - his numbers come from getafe and betis. His numbers for Argentina are great but nowhere near the level of his Barcelona numbers. Ronaldo has shown it everywhere he has gone - winning trophies at every arrival.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

That could be the case too “because he’s cocky” because he’s “arrogant” “not nice “ I’ve read it all.

I mean he is cocky and arrogant. I don't have a problem with it, but some might.

Then the whole tax thing....

 

[Giggs86]

Why is it closed? I need to change my vote. This bottling ginger bearded cnut will only catch Ronaldo in his dreams. Ronaldo would not let his team implode like that in a CL semi.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Messi is the most technically gifted player in the world but Ronaldo has had a much better career easily.

Messi is lucky to have his natural ability blend well with his 13 year old growth hormone injection whilst Ronaldo is pure training and hard work to get where he is.

As I said about Messi - his numbers come from getafe and betis. His numbers for Argentina are great but nowhere near the level of his Barcelona numbers. Ronaldo has shown it everywhere he has gone - winning trophies at every arrival.

He's the 2nd highest CL goal-scorer of all time....

 

[SportingCP96]

I mean he is cocky and arrogant. I don't have a problem with it, but some might.

Then the whole tax thing....

Messi and many others have done it too

* that does not make it right

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Messi and many others have done it too

* that does not make it right

And plenty dislike Messi too.

 

[Pocho]

Another big game and Messi walks like he is in a park. Embarrassing. He's one of the biggest problems at that club.

they should sell him
now that they can get a few pounds for him.

 

[SportingCP96]

And plenty dislike Messi too.

Never said otherwise.

 

[MrEleson]

I'm using it for a quantitative analysis study on which player is better in the public eye and recent event bias is often massively influencing variance so I'm thankful that the mods are helping me out here.

Contradictory considering the poll was re-opened when Messi produced a great performance last time round. So much for the influence of recent event bias influencing variance or it didn't happen that time?

 

[Peyroteo]

You keep saying this, but what potential?

Coutinho is a bust. Suarez a shell of himself. Their midfield is miles worse than it was under Pep.

So is everyone else's. And so was the midfield of pretty much every team that's won the Champions League since.

Coutinho cost 125 million, Dembele 140 or whatever it was, Malcom 30 more... if they are not performing it's because they're not getting the best out of them. They clearly have quality. Origi and Shaqiri played for Liverpool tonight, Henderson, Fabinho, Milner was the midfield... you shouldn't need Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar and prime Suarez on top of Messi to win a Champions League title.

Madrid had Isco, Asensio, Vasquez, Bale, Benzema, Morata and Ronaldo as attacking options and won it 3 times in a row with an incredibly effective offensive gameplan. Would you really trade Bale for Coutinho, Benzema for Suarez, Asensio for Dembele or Vasquez for Malcom? Personnel is the last of Barcelona's problems.

Even so, I might disagree with how they play tactically but it had nothing to do with what happened tonight. Tonight they needed a pair of balls more than they needed a good tactical plan. They should have won it all regardless of the tactics.

Now I agree with you regarding mentality. Their collective mentality is shit. I don't know if that stems from Valverde or from Messi, but their mentality is awful. When you're up 3-0 in a CL semi-final, you should never blow that lead.

It doesn't stem from a single person in particular. They just don't have any of those players that give them heart and all great teams must have one of those.

One time it can happen, but how many times have they completely shat their pants away from home in Europe in the past few years? 3-0 in Turin, 3-0 in Rome, 4-0 in Paris, 4-0 tonight... it's insane. Even last year vs an average Chelsea team the same could have easily happened.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

He's the 2nd highest CL goal-scorer of all time....

All for Barcelona. And the rest come from the rubbish that is the La liga but for 3 teams a season.

Just my opinion.

The way Messi plays for Barcelona causes too many wonders and overshadows Ronaldo's world wide career. It doesn't to me - because Messi is 3/4 of the player he is at Barca when playing for Argentina whilst Ronaldo is pure consistency at multiple clubs and national level.

 

[bushyboy]

Interesting that the poll gets reopened after last week's game and then closed after Barca get dumped out tonight

 

[SportingCP96]

The truth is in reality it is 60%-40% in Ronaldos favor

 

[adexkola]

Imagine having an opinion that volatile.

Have to quote this again.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

So is everyone else's. And so was the midfield of pretty much every team that's won the Champions League since.

Coutinho cost 125 million, Dembele 140 or whatever it was, Malcom 30 more... if they are not performing it's because they're not getting the best out of them. They clearly have quality. Origi and Shaqiri played for Liverpool tonight, Henderson, Fabinho, Milner was the midfield... you shouldn't need Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar and prime Suarez on top of Messi to win a Champions League title.

Madrid had Isco, Asensio, Vasquez, Bale, Benzema, Morata and Ronaldo as attacking options and won it 3 times in a row with an incredibly effective offensive gameplan. Would you really trade Bale for Coutinho, Benzema for Suarez, Asensio for Dembele or Vasquez for Malcom? Personnel is the last of Barcelona's problems.

Even so, I might disagree with how they play tactically but it had nothing to do with what happened tonight. Tonight they needed a pair of balls more than they needed a good tactical plan. They should have won it all regardless of the tactics.



It doesn't stem from a single person in particular. They just don't have any of those players that give them heart and all great teams must have one of those.

One time it can happen, but how many times have they completely shat their pants away from home in Europe in the past few years? 3-0 in Turin, 3-0 in Rome, 4-0 in Paris, 4-0 tonight... it's insane. Even last year vs an average Chelsea team the same could have easily happened.

Why are we using fees to cite their quality though? Just because a player costs X doesn't mean he's X quality. I mean Salah cost what 40 mil? He's miles better than Coutinho.

Coutinho has been awful all season. Dembele has been underwhelming throughout his Barcelona career. Malcom isn't even good enough.

I'd trade Bale for Coutinho, Benzema for current Suarez.

You highly overrate their personnel IMO.

But their mentality is collectively shit. I agree with that. I don't agree that their personnel isn't a problem though.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

All for Barcelona. And the rest come from the rubbish that is the La liga but for 3 teams a season.

Just my opinion.

The way Messi plays for Barcelona causes too many wonders and overshadows Ronaldo's world wide career. It doesn't to me - because Messi is 3/4 of the player he is at Barca when playing for Argentina whilst Ronaldo is pure consistency at multiple clubs and national level.

Ronaldo and Messi both literally perform worse for their national team than their club team.

It's always used as the beating stick for those 2 vs the greats like Pele, Maradona, etc.

 

[Posh Red]

Have to quote this again.

It’s mad. Do people genuinely change their votes on a game by game basis?

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Ronaldo and Messi both literally perform worse for their national team than their club team.

It's always used as the beating stick for those 2 vs the greats like Pele, Maradona, etc.

Fair but it is what it is. Messi chose to stay in his comfort zone but Ronaldo didn't. Both are not far from each other with Ronaldo higher on some records and higher on world spanning trophies.

As I said - Messi is the best for some because of the type of goals he scores and passes he makes. Fair enough. Ronaldo is better for some because he had a better career.

 

[el3mel]

Why is it closed? I need to change my vote. This bottling ginger bearded cnut will only catch Ronaldo in his dreams. Ronaldo would not let his team implode like that in a CL semi.

Tbf he let it implode against Ajax in QF this season.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Fair but it is what it is. Messi chose to stay in his comfort zone but Ronaldo didn't. Both are not far from each other with Ronaldo higher on some records and higher on world spanning trophies.

As I said - Messi is the best for some because of the type of goals he scores and passes he makes. Fair enough. Ronaldo is better for some because he had a better career.

But why is this used to criticize Messi?

Why does he need to go to a different club to prove his greatness? I don't understand.

 

[WR]

Messis definitely been better than Ronaldo this year no debate.
However if both retired tomorrow i think Ronaldo would have had the better career

This is something interesting I found online.
Dont know if its been posted here before.


Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi in court:

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden ball? Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times.
Messi: Yes, 5 times as well.

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden Boot? Ronaldo: Yes, 4 times. Messi: Same here.

Judge: How many individual trophies have you each won? Ronaldo: 16. Messi: 13.

Judge: Have any of you played for another club’s first team besides your current one? Ronaldo: Yes! Sporting CP in Portugal first division and Manchester United in BPL. Messi: No. Only Barcelona.

Judge: Have any of you won a title with your national team?
Ronaldo: Yes! We won Portugal’s first ever European Championship.
Messi: No.

Judge: How many goals have each of you scored for your respective teams?
Ronaldo: Should I count the goals I’ve scored for Man United and Sporting?

Judge: No. Only for Real Madrid.
Ronaldo: 436 goals in 426 appearances or 9 seasons.
Messi: 539 goals in 625 appearances or 14 seasons.

Judge: Who has scored more hat- tricks in La Liga?
Ronaldo: Me. 35 in La Liga.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I’ve scored 28.

Judge: Which is the most prestigious competition in club football?
Ronaldo: Champions League.
Messi: Champions League.

Judge: Have any of you won Champions League? Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times in total with 2 different teams. Once with Man United and 4 times with Madrid.
Messi: Yes, 4 times with Barcelona only. J

Judge: Who has scored more goals in the CL between the two of you?
Ronaldo: I’ve scored 118 goals in the CL. Messi: I’ve scored 100.

Judge: Who has more assists between the two of you in the CL?
Ronaldo: I have 39.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I have 26.

Judge: Who has scored more goals in total in the CL finals?
Ronaldo: Me.
Messi: Ronaldo.

Judge: Which one of you have scored more free kicks?
Ronaldo: I have.
Messi: Ronaldo has.

Judge: Most goals with weak foot?
Ronaldo: Me, I think.
Messi: (Nods in agreement).

Judge: Most goals from outside of the box? Ronaldo: Me.. again.
Messi: Ronaldo.

Judge: Who has scored more headers? Ronaldo: Is that a serious question?
Messi: ...

Judge: Who has a better penalty conversion rate?
Ronaldo: I think I do. I’ve scored 82% of the penalties I’ve taken.
Messi: I’ve scored 77% of the penalties I’ve taken.

Judge: Which one of you have scored the most goals in total during your career? Ronaldo: I think I have. 647 goals.
Messi: I’ve scored 603

Judge: How many football records do each of you hold in total for both club and country? Ronaldo: 146
Messi: 110

Judge: Well, after analyzing all of the facts that have been presented to me. I can only draw one conclusion when it comes to comparing you both as football players. That conclusion is that Ronaldo is the better player in almost every category. When it comes to goal scoring and accolades for both club and country, Ronaldo comes out on top. Messi, you are without a doubt Barcelona’s best player of all time. But certainly not the world’s best ever. That is clearly Ronaldo at the moment. Messi: But I am younger than Ronaldo and haven’t played as many matches as him. Judge: I understand that, but until you surpass his goal scoring records and win as many trophies both individually and collectively as he has, then Ronaldo will, according to the statistics, be considered as the best football player of all time. Until then, keep pushing on and you just might be able to achieve just as much as Ronaldo.

 

[Alek M]

Ronaldo carried Portugal to glory. Messi bottled it on the big stage.

Ronaldo stepa up in big games. Messi doesn't.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

But why is this used to criticize Messi?

Why does he need to go to a different club to prove his greatness? I don't understand.

Read that post by @WR

If Messi should not be beaten for not testing himself outside his comfort zone - I don't see why Ronaldo should be beaten for scoring the same amount of goals and more trophies just because he scores less fascinating goals. Its not like he is scoring rubbish either.

 

[2mufc0]

Messis definitely been better than Ronaldo this year no debate.
However if both retired tomorrow i think Ronaldo would have had the better career

This is something interesting I found online.
Dont know if its been posted here before.


Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi in court:

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden ball? Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times.
Messi: Yes, 5 times as well.

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden Boot? Ronaldo: Yes, 4 times. Messi: Same here.

Judge: How many individual trophies have you each won? Ronaldo: 16. Messi: 13.

Judge: Have any of you played for another club’s first team besides your current one? Ronaldo: Yes! Sporting CP in Portugal first division and Manchester United in BPL. Messi: No. Only Barcelona.

Judge: Have any of you won a title with your national team?
Ronaldo: Yes! We won Portugal’s first ever European Championship.
Messi: No.

Judge: How many goals have each of you scored for your respective teams?
Ronaldo: Should I count the goals I’ve scored for Man United and Sporting?

Judge: No. Only for Real Madrid.
Ronaldo: 436 goals in 426 appearances or 9 seasons.
Messi: 539 goals in 625 appearances or 14 seasons.

Judge: Who has scored more hat- tricks in La Liga?
Ronaldo: Me. 35 in La Liga.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I’ve scored 28.

Judge: Which is the most prestigious competition in club football?
Ronaldo: Champions League.
Messi: Champions League.

Judge: Have any of you won Champions League? Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times in total with 2 different teams. Once with Man United and 4 times with Madrid.
Messi: Yes, 4 times with Barcelona only. J

Judge: Who has scored more goals in the CL between the two of you?
Ronaldo: I’ve scored 118 goals in the CL. Messi: I’ve scored 100.

Judge: Who has more assists between the two of you in the CL?
Ronaldo: I have 39.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I have 26.

Judge: Who has scored more goals in total in the CL finals?
Ronaldo: Me.
Messi: Ronaldo.

Judge: Which one of you have scored more free kicks?
Ronaldo: I have.
Messi: Ronaldo has.

Judge: Most goals with weak foot?
Ronaldo: Me, I think.
Messi: (Nods in agreement).

Judge: Most goals from outside of the box? Ronaldo: Me.. again.
Messi: Ronaldo.

Judge: Who has scored more headers? Ronaldo: Is that a serious question?
Messi: ...

Judge: Who has a better penalty conversion rate?
Ronaldo: I think I do. I’ve scored 82% of the penalties I’ve taken.
Messi: I’ve scored 77% of the penalties I’ve taken.

Judge: Which one of you have scored the most goals in total during your career? Ronaldo: I think I have. 647 goals.
Messi: I’ve scored 603

Judge: How many football records do each of you hold in total for both club and country? Ronaldo: 146
Messi: 110

Judge: Well, after analyzing all of the facts that have been presented to me. I can only draw one conclusion when it comes to comparing you both as football players. That conclusion is that Ronaldo is the better player in almost every category. When it comes to goal scoring and accolades for both club and country, Ronaldo comes out on top. Messi, you are without a doubt Barcelona’s best player of all time. But certainly not the world’s best ever. That is clearly Ronaldo at the moment. Messi: But I am younger than Ronaldo and haven’t played as many matches as him. Judge: I understand that, but until you surpass his goal scoring records and win as many trophies both individually and collectively as he has, then Ronaldo will, according to the statistics, be considered as the best football player of all time. Until then, keep pushing on and you just might be able to achieve just as much as Ronaldo.

this thing again

 

[adexkola]

It’s mad. Do people genuinely change their votes on a game by game basis?

I literally don't get it.

 

[Schneckerl]

Ronaldo stepa up in big games. Messi doesn't.

Didnt he score 2 goals in each CL KO round?

 

[freeurmind]

I’ve closed the poll as I don’t think we should have it sullied by knee jerk voting

after you opened it after a Messi hattrick? Feckin hell.

 

[broccoli]

Predictably the voting was locked.

 

[Peyroteo]

Why are we using fees to cite their quality though? Just because a player costs X doesn't mean he's X quality. I mean Salah cost what 40 mil? He's miles better than Coutinho.

Coutinho has been awful all season. Dembele has been underwhelming throughout his Barcelona career. Malcom isn't even good enough.

Because they were playing well enough before Barcelona to be worth that kind of money. Now you want me to believe they're actually not good players as soon as they play for Barcelona? Coutinho was carrying Brazil just a few months ago at the World Cup.

They do not play football in a system that suits them, that's the problem. Not their individual quality. Put them under Pep at City and they'd be stars with Dembele outperforming Sane and Sterling and Coutinho outperforming Bernardo and David Silva.

It's like I said though, they didn't even need a proper tactical plan that got the best out of this squad to be more than good enough to win the treble. Especially with Messi playing at a fantastic level.

I'd trade Bale for Coutinho, Benzema for current Suarez.

That's mad. I'll give you this year's Benzema but Bale over Coutinho???

You highly overrate their personnel IMO.

Only City have a comparable squad... you don't need to have the best squad by a country mile in order to win the Champions League. Barcelona's past wins are confusing you. They don't have a squad as good as they did in 2009, 2011 or 2015, that's true. But noone else has a squad even close to that either. Feels like they can buy De Jong, De Ligt and Griezmann/Jovic next year and their squad will still be criticized for not being as good as it used to be in the Pep days as if it was possible to ever get to that level.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

I think the argument is back on

 

[marukomu]

I know of at least 30 posters that were going to change their vote to Ronaldo tonight. It's not fair.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Because they were playing well enough before Barcelona to be worth that kind of money. Now you want me to believe they're actually not good players as soon as they play for Barcelona? Coutinho was carrying Brazil just a few months ago at the World Cup.

They do not play football in a system that suits them, that's the problem. Not their individual quality. Put them under Pep at City and they'd be stars with Dembele outperforming Sane and Sterling and Coutinho outperforming Bernardo and David Silva.



That's mad. I'll give you this year's Benzema but Bale over Coutinho???



Only City have a comparable squad... you don't need to have the best squad by a country mile in order to win the Champions League. Barcelona's past wins are confusing you. They don't have a squad as good as they did in 2009, 2011 or 2015, that's true. But noone else has a squad even close to that either. Feels like they can buy De Jong, De Ligt and Griezmann/Jovic next year and their squad will still be criticized for not being as good as it used to be in the Pep days as if it was possible to ever get to that level.

Coutinho went through a purple patch in which he was playing lights out. Since then he's regressed to the mean. Do you think Dembele was playing well enough to be worth 140 mil? I sure don't.

So you do think some of their problems are tactical after all? Ignoring the Messi dependence you often cite I'll give you that Pep is tremendous with attacking players, but I don't think Dembele and Coutinho would be THAT much better under Pep.

Personally I'm not high on either Bale or Coutinho at the moment. But yes, I think Bale is a better player than Coutinho.

Real Madrid have a better squad than Barcelona imo. Ronaldo's exit took them by surprise and a lot of their players just had horrible season.

I'm well aware their squad will never be what it was under Pep or even 2015, but they don't have the best squad in the world imo. I just can't buy that. Nothing can convince me otherwise.

A lot of their players are on the wrong side of 30 and have massively declined.

 

[Acheron]

Omg, I don't consider Messi's performance today to be that bad it deserved the poll to be closed but still it's hilarious.

 

[RedRonaldo]

This poll lost all credibility after the timing of reopening and closing of poll.

 

[SportingCP96]

But why is this used to criticize Messi?

Why does he need to go to a different club to prove his greatness? I don't understand.

Quite obvious isn't it? Messi

This poll lost all credibility after the timing of reopening and closing of poll.

Amen.

 

[SportingCP96]

I think the argument is back on

It's been off since 2016.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

It's been off since 2016.

Not after tonight