Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[MalcolmTucker]

On another note, up to today I still do not understand why people thinks ronaldo going to juventus is somehow a challenge. It is like going to the only horses in other 1 horse leagues (PSG/Bayern).

If anything, I felt that he was running away from challenging the la liga, taking the easy way out if you may.

Yeah, if Messi went to Juventus and got outscored by 3 players (including a player who is 36) last season and was 12th top scorer so far this season it would be evidence that he can only do it for Barca/in La Liga yet this is actually used as proof that Ronaldo can do it in 3 leagues

 

[ROFLUTION]

I found this recently and thought it was pretty interesting. They had pretty similar stats the first 4/5 years of their career:

Not on the Ronaldo or the Messi-train, but if you look at when Ronaldo joined a lesser league and crappier opponents (La Liga), the gap is consistent and the same size therefrom and on it seems. So their goal-scoring rate is about the same after Ronaldo joins Spain. Really says more about how close the race between them really is I think

 

[Gehrman]

Yeah, if Messi went to Juventus and got outscored by 3 players (including a player who is 36) last season and was 12th top scorer so far this season it would be evidence that he can only do it for Barca/in La Liga yet this is actually used as proof that Ronaldo can do it in 3 leagues

I don't get it either. He goes to a weaker league where Juventus have walked the title for 7 seasons and get's out scored by the mighty Krzysztof Piatek(who only played 18 games in the league), Duvan Zapata from the mighty Atlanta and Fabio Quagliarella from the mighty Sampdoria and who is 36.

How does this make him the goat?

 

[Gehrman]

The team was equally built around him at United and he was on top. Madrid had just had their worst season in recent history when he signed for them, having been thumped by Barca at the bernebeau and demolished by Liverpool in the CL. There certainly weren’t any guarantees when he moved.

Also, when he initially joined Madrid, he was treated like just another superstar among the others - he didn’t start or finish every game nor did he take all the set-pieces (even though he arrived as the reigning Ballon D’or holder). Nothing like how he walked into Juve being #1. The team eventually building itself around him was by merit.

No that there was no guarantees but Pellegrini said he had to buy Ronaldo, Benzema and Kaka to catch up with Barcalona. He was transfering to a club hellbent on getting back to being the worlds best. And for sure it's on merit Ronaldo has teams built around him. He's one of the best ever, it's hard to dispute.

 

[RedRonaldo]

This trick again...heading being a subset of goal scoring should be just under 1 category, or should we start talking about messi’s center of balance and ball control as well since you love to “multiply” a general skillset.

Also dribbling? Come on now...if Ronaldo has been dribbling for a decade at his “last season at United/first season at Real Madrid” level, then yes he is a 9. But if we look holistically for more than a decade, no he he is never a 9.

Well he is the top 5 dribbler in past 13 years according to OPTA data, its hard to argue against it. If top 5 in over a decade isn't good enough for a 9, then I don't know who else can get a 9.

Anyway If you want to excluding all the subsets, then lets just compare the major attributes instead:

Goalscoring (finishing, heading, long shot, skill shot, free kicks, penalty, off ball movement, shot with weaker foot etc)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 10

Playmaking (long pass, short pass, one touch pass, crossing, skill pass, weighted pass, visionary pass, through balls, final ball, controlling tempo, creativity, assists etc)
Ronaldo 8
Messi 9.5

Technical (dribbling, first touch, ball control, skills, tricks)
Ronaldo 9
Messi 10

Physical (pace, acceleration, strength, balance, athleticism, stamina, fitness, prone to injury)
Ronaldo 9.5
Messi 9

Mental (determination, big game mentality, decision making, composure, commitment)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 8.5

 

[Gehrman]

Well he is the top 5 dribbler in past 13 years according to OPTA data, its hard to argue against it. If top 5 in over a decade isn't good enough for a 9, then I don't know who else can get a 9.

Anyway If you want to excluding all the subsets, then lets just compare the major attributes instead:

Goalscoring (finishing, heading, long shot, skill shot, free kicks, penalty, movement etc)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 10

Passing (long ball, short ball, one touch pass, crossing, skill pass, vision/creativity/assists etc)
Ronaldo 8.5
Messi 9.5

Technical (dribbling, first touch, ball control, skills, tricks)
Ronaldo 9
Messi 10

Physical (pace, strength, balance, athleticism, stamina, fitness)
Ronaldo 9.5
Messi 9

Mental (determination, big game mentality, decision making, composure, commitment)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 8.5

I'm both a Ronaldo fan and a Messi fan in the sense I'm a football fan and fan of great footballers. I lean towards Messi as the Goat, but I would put Ronaldo at 10 with physical stats and Messi at 9 with regards to Mental attributes. To be honest I think you could argue for higher. He's delivered in all the CL finals, he's the topscorer in Classicos and in general topscorer agaisnt all the toughest teams in the world. Like Ronaldo, you can't be in the top 1 or 2 in world for over a decade without being freakishly mentally strong.

 

[MrEleson]

No that there was no guarantees but Pellegrini said he had to buy Ronaldo, Benzema and Kaka to catch up with Barcalona. He was transfering to a club hellbent on getting back to being the worlds best. And for sure it's on merit Ronaldo has teams built around him. He's one of the best ever, it's hard to dispute.

Well my main point was that there was a lot more for him to lose leaving United where he was the main man and the manager loved him to bits for Madrid back then. Especially knowing that he would be competing against a Titan in the league that was far above the club he would be moving to and that just outplayed his own team in a final for that matter. It could have certainly easily gone the other way. At United he would have continued winning title upon title in an environment he was already familiar with and adored by all.

 

[Gehrman]

Well my main point was that there was a lot more for him to lose leaving United where he was the main man and the manager loved him to bits for Madrid back then. Especially knowing that he would be competing against a Titan in the league that was far above the club he would be moving to and that just outplayed his own team in a final for that matter. It could have certainly easily gone the other way. At United he would have continued winning title upon title in an environment he was already familiar with and adored by all.

If he was english and a United academy product, he would probably have stayed his entire career, but he's not. He's a latino and for most those Barca and Real are the dream clubs. Messi has been at Barcelona since he was 14 and loves the club. He has no reason to leave and his trophy haul at barcalona is a testament to that.

 

[MrEleson]

Also dribbling? Come on now...if Ronaldo has been dribbling for a decade at his “last season at United/first season at Real Madrid” level, then yes he is a 9. But if we look holistically for more than a decade, no he he is never a 9.

Using this logic, how good were R9 and Ronaldinho at dribbling when they were post 30? Ronaldinho was basically doing everything on the spot and keeping it moving.

I’m guessing the 9 is for peak level of performance in that category. So because he wasn’t as good at it later in his career doesn’t eradicate the fact that he was a 9/10 at dribbling at a certain phase of his career.

 

[Renegade]

Well he is the top 5 dribbler in past 13 years according to OPTA data, its hard to argue against it. If top 5 in over a decade isn't good enough for a 9, then I don't know who else can get a 9.

Anyway If you want to excluding all the subsets, then lets just compare the major attributes instead:

Goalscoring (finishing, heading, long shot, skill shot, free kicks, penalty, off ball movement, shot with weaker foot etc)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 10

Playmaking (long pass, short pass, one touch pass, crossing, skill pass, weighted pass, visionary pass, through balls, final ball, controlling tempo, creativity, assists etc)
Ronaldo 8
Messi 9.5

Technical (dribbling, first touch, ball control, skills, tricks)
Ronaldo 9
Messi 10

Physical (pace, strength, balance, athleticism, stamina, fitness)
Ronaldo 9.5
Messi 9

Mental (determination, big game mentality, decision making, composure, commitment)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 8.5

How can a player who has won almost everything possible and been one of the greatest players of his generation and arguably all time not be a 10 in mentality? His won more big games than some players have ever played. What players would you rate as 10/10 mentality?

 

[RedRonaldo]

I'm both a Ronaldo fan and a Messi fan in the sense I'm a football fan and fan of great footballers. I lean towards Messi as the Goat, but I would put Ronaldo at 10 with physical stats and Messi at 9 with regards to Mental attributes. To be honest I think you could argue for higher. He's delivered in all the CL finals, he's the topscorer in Classicos and in general topscorer agaisnt all the toughest teams in the world. Like Ronaldo, you can't be in the top 1 or 2 in world for over a decade without being freakishly mentally strong.

How can a player who has won almost everything possible and been one of the greatest players of his generation and arguably all time not be a 10 in mentality? His won more big games than some players have ever played. What players would you rate as 10/10 mentality?

Its all up to debate. Ronaldo could be 10 in Physical, Messi could be 9 in Mental. Yes Messi has great mentality too, but not a 10 for me, he has demonstrate weakness in his mentality multiple times with Argentina, and he has never quite able to lead or motivate his teammates during adverse situation, that's why I can't give him anything higher than a 9. But he is still a great winner in Barca, always delivered, but just seem never take a step further from his comfort zone at Barca, so 9 is more reasonable. Regarding who else could get a 10 apart from Ronaldo, I think Maradona was a 10 for me, Cantona or Keane is another one, those players are so influential and such a big character on the pitch, always delivered when it matters too, and lead the whole team like a king. Messi lacks bit of character when comparing to those players.

In other words, I don't mind revise the following:

Goalscoring (finishing, heading, long shot, skill shot, free kicks, penalty, off ball movement, shot with weaker foot etc)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 10

Playmaking (long pass, short pass, one touch pass, crossing, skill pass, weighted pass, visionary pass, through balls, final ball, controlling tempo, creativity, assists etc)
Ronaldo 8
Messi 9.5

Technical (dribbling, first touch, ball control, skills, tricks)
Ronaldo 9
Messi 10

Physical (pace, acceleration, strength, balance, athleticism, stamina, fitness, prone to injury)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 9

Mental (determination, big game mentality, decision making, composure, commitment, adaptibility, leadership)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 9

 

[Gehrman]

How can a player who has won almost everything possible and been one of the greatest players of his generation and arguably all time not be a 10 in mentality? His won more big games than some players have ever played. What players would you rate as 10/10 mentality?

He probably has more Motm performances of all time than anyone else.

 

[Renegade]

Its all up to debate. Ronaldo could be 10 in Physical, Messi could be 9 in Mental. Yes Messi has great mentality too, but not a 10 for me, he has demonstrate weakness in his mentality multiple times in Argentina, and he never quite able of influencing or motivates his teammates during adverse situation, that's why I can't give him anything higher than a 9. But he is still a great winner in Barca, always delivered, but just seem never take a step further from his comfort zone at Barca, so 9 is more reasonable.

In other words, I don't mind revise the following:

Goalscoring (finishing, heading, long shot, skill shot, free kicks, penalty, off ball movement, shot with weaker foot etc)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 10

Playmaking (long pass, short pass, one touch pass, crossing, skill pass, weighted pass, visionary pass, through balls, final ball, controlling tempo, creativity, assists etc)
Ronaldo 8
Messi 9.5

Technical (dribbling, first touch, ball control, skills, tricks)
Ronaldo 9
Messi 10

Physical (pace, acceleration, strength, balance, athleticism, stamina, fitness, prone to injury)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 9

Mental (determination, big game mentality, decision making, composure, commitment, adaptibility, influence, motivation)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 9

What? By losing a football match or final?

 

[RedRonaldo]

What? By losing a football match or final?

Quiting (retire from national team), giving up, missing crucial penalties, heads down and look lost when team is losing etc. There are plenty of examples.

 

[In Rainbows]

Mental (determination, big game mentality, decision making, composure, commitment, adaptibility, leadership)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 9

I don't see how you come up with this? It's not like Ronaldo always delivers in big games. Just look at Real Madrid's CL finals. What is it, like 3 of them he had a small impact?

 

[RedRonaldo]

I don't see how you come up with this? It's not like Ronaldo always delivers in big games. Just look at Real Madrid's CL finals. What is it, like 3 of them he had a small impact?

No one delivers more than him though. Its not only about scoring a goal in final, for example scoring hat tricks against Athletico in knockout stages for big come back win last season etc. and even diving to win a penalty and scored in injury time just right after VAR disqualify his goal last month in Serie A etc its about determination to win from adverse situation, they all counts.

 

[Kinsella]

Well he is the top 5 dribbler in past 13 years according to OPTA data, its hard to argue against it. If top 5 in over a decade isn't good enough for a 9, then I don't know who else can get a 9.

Anyway If you want to excluding all the subsets, then lets just compare the major attributes instead:

Goalscoring (finishing, heading, long shot, skill shot, free kicks, penalty, off ball movement, shot with weaker foot etc)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 10

Playmaking (long pass, short pass, one touch pass, crossing, skill pass, weighted pass, visionary pass, through balls, final ball, controlling tempo, creativity, assists etc)
Ronaldo 8
Messi 9.5

Technical (dribbling, first touch, ball control, skills, tricks)
Ronaldo 9
Messi 10

Physical (pace, acceleration, strength, balance, athleticism, stamina, fitness, prone to injury)
Ronaldo 9.5
Messi 9

Mental (determination, big game mentality, decision making, composure, commitment)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 8.5

So, overall...

Ronaldo = 46.5
Messi = 47

In other words, I don't mind revise the following:

Goalscoring (finishing, heading, long shot, skill shot, free kicks, penalty, off ball movement, shot with weaker foot etc)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 10

Playmaking (long pass, short pass, one touch pass, crossing, skill pass, weighted pass, visionary pass, through balls, final ball, controlling tempo, creativity, assists etc)
Ronaldo 8
Messi 9.5

Technical (dribbling, first touch, ball control, skills, tricks)
Ronaldo 9
Messi 10

Physical (pace, acceleration, strength, balance, athleticism, stamina, fitness, prone to injury)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 9

Mental (determination, big game mentality, decision making, composure, commitment, adaptibility, leadership)
Ronaldo 10
Messi 9

Ok, revised total then...

Ronaldo = 47
Messi = 47.5

 

[Pocho]

This thread is back alive?

You do realize that this poll lost all credibility when an idiot decided to open it after Barca beat Liverpool and close it after their capitulation in the 2nd leg?

Everybody can change the vote.

 

[trims]

No one delivers more than him though. Its not only about scoring a goal in final, for example scoring hat tricks against Athletico in knockout stages for big come back win last season etc. and even diving to win a penalty and scored in injury time just right after VAR disqualify his goal last month in Serie A etc its about determination to win from adverse situation, they all counts.

In the 2011 CL semis against real when the game was 0-0. Messi sealed the tie by scoring 2 goals including one where he picked up the ball from the half way line and ran through Madrid’s defense.

In the final that year when it was 1-1, Messi stepped up to to score a vital goal and virtually set up the 3rd.

In the 2015 CL semis at home when it was 0-0 against Bayern in the 77th minute who stepped up and humiliated the worlds best defender and goalkeeper at that time to get 2 goals and an assist that virtually put Barca in the final.

In the 2015 CL final after Juve scored to make it 1-1 and with the game looking like it could either way, it’s was Messi’s determined run and shot that caused havoc in the Juve defence and allowed Suarez to slot in the rebound.

The elclasico game at bernabeu in 2017 that could have decided the title. He turned the game around and put Barca in a leading position which they bottled. Then he stepped up again in the last minute to win it.

The Argentina qualifying game away where they need a win to make it to the WC. He scored a hatrick.

These are just some examples off the top of my head. How does that not show determination to win from adverse conditions?

 

[Gehrman]

In the 2011 CL semis against real when the game was 0-0. Messi sealed the tie by scoring 2 goals including one where he picked up the ball from the half way line and ran through Madrid’s defense.

In the final that year when it was 1-1, Messi stepped up to to score a vital goal and virtually set up the 3rd.

In the 2015 CL semis at home when it was 0-0 against Bayern in the 77th minute who stepped up and humiliated the worlds best defender and goalkeeper at that time to get 2 goals and an assist that virtually put Barca in the final.

In the 2015 CL final after Juve scored to make it 1-1 and with the game looking like it could either way, it’s was Messi’s determined run and shot that caused havoc in the Juve defence and allowed Suarez to slot in the rebound.

The elclasico game at bernabeu in 2017 that could have decided the title. He turned the game around and put Barca in a leading position which they bottled. Then he stepped up again in the last minute to win it.

The Argentina qualifying game away where they need a win to make it to the WC. He scored a hatrick.

These are just some examples off the top of my head. How does that not show determination to win from adverse conditions?

He's a midget who scored a floating header against Rio, Vidic and Van der Sar in 2009 CL final too.

Oh and he scored a hattrick vs Real Madrid when he was 19 and Barca were down to ten men. Not strong mentally my ass

 

[TheMurican]

No one delivers more than him though. Its not only about scoring a goal in final, for example scoring hat tricks against Athletico in knockout stages for big come back win last season etc. and even diving to win a penalty and scored in injury time just right after VAR disqualify his goal last month in Serie A etc its about determination to win from adverse situation, they all counts.

I count 3 UCL finals(14, 6, 18) where he was practically invisible. He was far less impactful than Messi in any any of Lio's failed finals. You can't simply handwave this away w some platitudes abt leadership, inspiration etc. And if ronaldo gets so much credit for saving the tie against Atleti last season, I remember messi doing the same against Milan back in the day. You can find instances of both players rising to the big occasion as well failing to deliver(to ronnie's benefit there was often someone else who stood up when he had an off night). Yet you lot cherrypick ronaldo's big performances and minimize the failures to make him out as some Jordanesque figure who 'always delivers.'

 

[MalcolmTucker]

In the 2011 CL semis against real when the game was 0-0. Messi sealed the tie by scoring 2 goals including one where he picked up the ball from the half way line and ran through Madrid’s defense.

In the final that year when it was 1-1, Messi stepped up to to score a vital goal and virtually set up the 3rd.

In the 2015 CL semis at home when it was 0-0 against Bayern in the 77th minute who stepped up and humiliated the worlds best defender and goalkeeper at that time to get 2 goals and an assist that virtually put Barca in the final.

In the 2015 CL final after Juve scored to make it 1-1 and with the game looking like it could either way, it’s was Messi’s determined run and shot that caused havoc in the Juve defence and allowed Suarez to slot in the rebound.

The elclasico game at bernabeu in 2017 that could have decided the title. He turned the game around and put Barca in a leading position which they bottled. Then he stepped up again in the last minute to win it.

The Argentina qualifying game away where they need a win to make it to the WC. He scored a hatrick.

These are just some examples off the top of my head. How does that not show determination to win from adverse conditions?

2-0 down vs. Milan in the CL and he scored 2 goals and helped set up the third in the return leg.

2 seasons ago when Sevilla were going to break Barca's invincible run Messi came on in the second half at 2-0 down and scored the equaliser in the last minute.

Also came on against PSG unfit and completely changed the game in CL a few years back.

Scoring a ridiculous solo goal in the Copa del Rey final.

The way the Ronaldo fans go on you'd think he has Lukaku's big game record.

 

[Daysleeper]

That's obvious - but it's the fact that Ronaldo tests or challenges himself and comes out on top that makes his fans.

Messi was handed a god given talent and has shown it for Barcelona consistently & so far Barcelona only.

It's the mentality of the athlete rather than the technique of the footballer that makes C. Ronaldo's fans - for those who prefer the technique, then Messi trumps him and no one can complain.

going to a team that has won 8 straight serie A’s is not a “challenge”. A league that even lukaku can have good numbers.

Madrid are probably the most celebrated club of all time and Man United are the most celebrated English team of all time.

this isn’t like he went to hull, Bilbao, and udinese

 

[Daysleeper]

I count 3 UCL finals(14, 6, 18) where he was practically invisible. He was far less impactful than Messi in any any of Lio's failed finals. You can't simply handwave this away w some platitudes abt leadership, inspiration etc. And if ronaldo gets so much credit for saving the tie against Atleti last season, I remember messi doing the same against Milan back in the day. You can find instances of both players rising to the big occasion as well failing to deliver(to ronnie's benefit there was often someone else who stood up when he had an off night). Yet you lot cherrypick ronaldo's big performances and minimize the failures to make him out as some Jordanesque figure who 'always delivers.'

he was a ghost in 2016 cl final as well

 

[Lord SInister]

A league that even lukaku can have good numbers.

I am.pretty sure you never followed Lukaka, or else you won't have written so arrogant like this.
Lukaka has always had good numbers, his problem at United was his bad overall play.

 

[Gehrman]

he was a ghost in 2016 cl final as well

In general I just feel like the people siding with Ronaldo are clutching at straws. It's not hard to agree that he is one of the greatest ever. It's just hard to argue that he is greater footballer than Messi.

 

[RedRonaldo]

So, overall...

Ronaldo = 46.5
Messi = 47





Ok, revised total then...

Ronaldo = 47
Messi = 47.5

I never said Messi isn’t better footballer than Ronaldo though. Ability wise I’ve always rate Messi higher. My stance is always Messi being better footballers whereas Ronaldo being greater footballer, or at least on par.

 

[RedRonaldo]

In the 2011 CL semis against real when the game was 0-0. Messi sealed the tie by scoring 2 goals including one where he picked up the ball from the half way line and ran through Madrid’s defense.

In the final that year when it was 1-1, Messi stepped up to to score a vital goal and virtually set up the 3rd.

In the 2015 CL semis at home when it was 0-0 against Bayern in the 77th minute who stepped up and humiliated the worlds best defender and goalkeeper at that time to get 2 goals and an assist that virtually put Barca in the final.

In the 2015 CL final after Juve scored to make it 1-1 and with the game looking like it could either way, it’s was Messi’s determined run and shot that caused havoc in the Juve defence and allowed Suarez to slot in the rebound.

The elclasico game at bernabeu in 2017 that could have decided the title. He turned the game around and put Barca in a leading position which they bottled. Then he stepped up again in the last minute to win it.

The Argentina qualifying game away where they need a win to make it to the WC. He scored a hatrick.

These are just some examples off the top of my head. How does that not show determination to win from adverse conditions?

Of course there are plenty of examples, afterall he had scored over 680 goals in his career, there are many goals from big games too. I didn’t rate him 9/10 in mentality out of nothing!
Point being he has demontrate sign of mental weakness in Argentina multiple times, losing 4? finals in international competition and never won one is one example. Losing regularly in knockout stages of CL (in recent years) in 2nd leg with his head down while comfortably leading 1st leg is another sign. Quiting Argentina after losing a tournament is another. Lack of leadership and unable to motivate his poor teammates in Argentina is another. Despite all these, I still rate him quite high, 9/10. His mental strength easily outweighs his flaw, as he always delivers for Barca, but the flaw is always there, so it’s hard to give him a 10.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I count 3 UCL finals(14, 6, 18) where he was practically invisible. He was far less impactful than Messi in any any of Lio's failed finals. You can't simply handwave this away w some platitudes abt leadership, inspiration etc. And if ronaldo gets so much credit for saving the tie against Atleti last season, I remember messi doing the same against Milan back in the day. You can find instances of both players rising to the big occasion as well failing to deliver(to ronnie's benefit there was often someone else who stood up when he had an off night). Yet you lot cherrypick ronaldo's big performances and minimize the failures to make him out as some Jordanesque figure who 'always delivers.'

Winning the CL final (even without scoring a goal) isn’t a failure, you still get the trophy, (especially when you still end up being the top scorer/best player of tournament). Maradona didn’t score in 86 WC final match either, and has relatively quiet match (not his best game) No one call him failure in 86 WC because of that though, so it’s really strange argument.
However, losing the final is. It applies to everyone. Messi has loss 4 major final. His overall impact at CL knockout stage is also not quite up there to match with Ronaldo.

Mental strength is all about delivering when it matters. When your team is winning anyway, whether winning by 3-0 or 4-0 doesn’t really matter. You still win the match/trophy regardless. However when your team is losing, it matters.

 

[Daysleeper]

I am.pretty sure you never followed Lukaka, or else you won't have written so arrogant like this.
Lukaka has always had good numbers, his problem at United was his bad overall play.

He’s been far better at inter than he ever was at united

serie a is not a great league

 

[Bebestation]

going to a team that has won 8 straight serie A’s is not a “challenge”. A league that even lukaku can have good numbers.

Madrid are probably the most celebrated club of all time and Man United are the most celebrated English team of all time.

this isn’t like he went to hull, Bilbao, and udinese

Spoiler

Of course it is. If Messi can't even do anything of note with Argentina then I'm sure it wouldn't be the easiest thing for him to play in another league in another language in another country either.

Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if he had to tone down his technique and focus on his finishing much much more in some of the other Leagues if he wasn't playing for a team like Barcelona who could be argued to have at one point, the best players ever in every position who were opening teams up with ease whilst Messi was doing the dirty business.

Where exactly is the challenge in that?

The one other competition or challenge he got put on his plate which was Argentina, for me; he failed which Maradona did perfectly fine with. Its not like Aguero and Di Maria are exactly rubbish either is it? Talking about Di Maria - the lad got home sick & didn't settle well at United, why isn't there a possibility that would happen to Lionel & all of a sudden we are looking at a player feeling down or out of form?

I swear people talk about Barcelona like Messi was the only one doing the business - when he had Iniesta & Xavi coached to tease any opposition, players like Neymar, Villa, Suarez, Dani Alves, Alba, Puyol, Pique making his life easier playing possession football.

Whilst sure they weren't exactly rubbish - I do see a difference between playing with them consistently and switching between the likes of Rooney, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Kroos, Modric, Benzema, Ramos, Bale, Mandzukic, Pjanic, Chiellini, & Dybala etc.

C Ronaldo would adapt to different countries, different Leagues, different managers, different tactics and he would get the job done to a standard I haven't seen before (and even if I'm wrong my personal opinion is that he did it with worse team mates by even 5% margin).

Consistency not Beauty is what Ronaldo is to me.

Fans will say 'but Messi is consistent AND he is beautiful to watch' - yet to me Ronaldo is the one who gave up the beauty of his game to be just a little bit more consistent & achieve every challenge that he puts on his plate to test himself.

I can see perfectly fine why Messi is regarded by many as the greatest of all time & I sit there watch him like a well made film. However to me, Ronaldo is how I as a human want to be - to consistently test my self, to consistently come out on top, to consistently keep moving and ultimately, to give up unneeded things like beauty for that extra bit of consistency.

 

[Gehrman]

Spoiler

Of course it is. If Messi can't even do anything of note with Argentina then I'm sure it wouldn't be the easiest thing for him to play in another league in another language in another country either.

Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if he had to tone down his technique and focus on his finishing much much more in some of the other Leagues if he wasn't playing for a team like Barcelona who could be argued to have at one point, the best players ever in every position who were opening teams up with ease whilst Messi was doing the dirty business.

Where exactly is the challenge in that?

The one other competition or challenge he got put on his plate which was Argentina, for me; he failed which Maradona did perfectly fine with. Its not like Aguero and Di Maria are exactly rubbish either is it? Talking about Di Maria - the lad got home sick & didn't settle well at United, why isn't there a possibility that would happen to Lionel & all of a sudden we are looking at a player feeling down or out of form?

I swear people talk about Barcelona like Messi was the only one doing the business - when he had Iniesta & Xavi coached to tease any opposition, players like Neymar, Villa, Suarez, Dani Alves, Alba, Puyol, Pique making his life easier playing possession football.

Whilst sure they weren't exactly rubbish - I do see a difference between playing with them consistently and switching between the likes of Rooney, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Kroos, Modric, Benzema, Ramos, Bale, Mandzukic, Pjanic, Chiellini, & Dybala etc.

C Ronaldo would adapt to different countries, different Leagues, different managers, different tactics and he would get the job done to a standard I haven't seen before (and even if I'm wrong my personal opinion is that he did it with worse team mates by even 5% margin).

Consistency not Beauty is what Ronaldo is to me.

Fans will say 'but Messi is consistent AND he is beautiful to watch' - yet to me Ronaldo is the one who gave up the beauty of his game to be just a little bit more consistent & achieve every challenge that he puts on his plate to test himself.

I can see perfectly fine why Messi is regarded by many as the greatest of all time & I sit there watch him like a well made film. However to me, Ronaldo is how I as a human want to be - to consistently test my self, to consistently come out on top, to consistently keep moving and ultimately, to give up unneeded things like beauty for that extra bit of consistency.

No Messi didn't win WC with Argentina like Maradonna did, but Messi on the other hand has won 100 more times at club level than Maradonna and broken all records.

 

[Gehrman]

Spoiler

Of course it is. If Messi can't even do anything of note with Argentina then I'm sure it wouldn't be the easiest thing for him to play in another league in another language in another country either.

Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if he had to tone down his technique and focus on his finishing much much more in some of the other Leagues if he wasn't playing for a team like Barcelona who could be argued to have at one point, the best players ever in every position who were opening teams up with ease whilst Messi was doing the dirty business.

Where exactly is the challenge in that?

The one other competition or challenge he got put on his plate which was Argentina, for me; he failed which Maradona did perfectly fine with. Its not like Aguero and Di Maria are exactly rubbish either is it? Talking about Di Maria - the lad got home sick & didn't settle well at United, why isn't there a possibility that would happen to Lionel & all of a sudden we are looking at a player feeling down or out of form?

I swear people talk about Barcelona like Messi was the only one doing the business - when he had Iniesta & Xavi coached to tease any opposition, players like Neymar, Villa, Suarez, Dani Alves, Alba, Puyol, Pique making his life easier playing possession football.

Whilst sure they weren't exactly rubbish - I do see a difference between playing with them consistently and switching between the likes of Rooney, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Kroos, Modric, Benzema, Ramos, Bale, Mandzukic, Pjanic, Chiellini, & Dybala etc.

C Ronaldo would adapt to different countries, different Leagues, different managers, different tactics and he would get the job done to a standard I haven't seen before (and even if I'm wrong my personal opinion is that he did it with worse team mates by even 5% margin).

Consistency not Beauty is what Ronaldo is to me.

Fans will say 'but Messi is consistent AND he is beautiful to watch' - yet to me Ronaldo is the one who gave up the beauty of his game to be just a little bit more consistent & achieve every challenge that he puts on his plate to test himself.

I can see perfectly fine why Messi is regarded by many as the greatest of all time & I sit there watch him like a well made film. However to me, Ronaldo is how I as a human want to be - to consistently test my self, to consistently come out on top, to consistently keep moving and ultimately, to give up unneeded things like beauty for that extra bit of consistency.

Who could Messi honestly join that was a step up from Barcalona in this decade? Be a mercanery at City or PSG? Join post Fergie United?

For me there isn't nothing impressive about winning the league with Juventus as they have walked for 8 seasons.

Consistenly scoring over 40 goals a season for a decade without being and out and out striker is seriously impressive no matter what team you play for. And that's only half of what he does.

Would he impress you if you joined PSG when he's 34 to collect a higher paycheque and prove he win can the league with PSG which they do every season anyway.

 

[Sayros]

Who could Messi honestly join that was a step up from Barcalona in this decade? Be a mercanery at City or PSG? Join post Fergie United?

For me there isn't nothing impressive about winning the league with Juventus as they have walked for 8 seasons.

Consistenly scoring over 40 goals a season for a decade without being and out and out striker is seriously impressive no matter what team you play for. And that's only half of what he does.

Would he impress you if you joined PSG when he's 34 to collect a higher paycheque and prove he win can the league with PSG which they do every season anyway.

You'd think Cristiano is someone who looks for challenges everywhere. The guy got recruited to a United squad that was the best team in England and was allowed to develop, similar to Messi at Barcelona. Then he joined a team in Madrid that recruited him, the best young striker in the world at the time in Benzema, and a Ballon d'Or winner in Kaka all at the same time in one of the craziest summer recruiting spree Madrid had done. He then joined Juventus which is a guaranteed league win, no matter what.

The only thing Cristiano stans will point at is the Euro 2016, and there's a lot of holes in that argument. For one, Portugal would have been eliminated in the group stages if this was like every previous Euro format, and CR7 had nothing to do with Portugal winning the final.

It's good to see the poll reflecting what the rest of the world actually thinks of this 'debate'.

 

[Gehrman]

You'd think Cristiano is someone who looks for challenges everywhere. The guy got recruited to a United squad that was the best team in England and was allowed to develop, similar to Messi at Barcelona. Then he joined a team in Madrid that recruited him, the best young striker in the world at the time in Benzema, and a Ballon d'Or winner in Kaka all at the same time in one of the craziest summer recruiting spree Madrid had done. He then joined Juventus which is a guaranteed league win, no matter what.

The only thing Cristiano stans will point at is the Euro 2016, and there's a lot of holes in that argument. For one, Portugal would have been eliminated in the group stages if this was like every previous Euro format, and CR7 had nothing to do with Portugal winning the final.

It's good to see the poll reflecting what the rest of the world actually thinks of this 'debate'.

The thing is, football is a collective team game. If Higuain had finished his one vs one in the WC final, Messi would have WC trophy to his cabinet. How would the Ronaldo fans downplay that one other than Messi didn't score the winning goal. But Ronaldo was unfortunately injured and Portugal got lucky that Eder scored a worldie. And even then Ronaldo tried to make it all about him by trying to outdo the coach. Ronaldo is a leader yeah, but he's also the most self-centered footballer i've ever seen.

 

[MrEleson]

You'd think Cristiano is someone who looks for challenges everywhere. The guy got recruited to a United squad that was the best team in England and was allowed to develop, similar to Messi at Barcelona. Then he joined a team in Madrid that recruited him, the best young striker in the world at the time in Benzema, and a Ballon d'Or winner in Kaka all at the same time in one of the craziest summer recruiting spree Madrid had done. He then joined Juventus which is a guaranteed league win, no matter what.

The only thing Cristiano stans will point at is the Euro 2016, and there's a lot of holes in that argument. For one, Portugal would have been eliminated in the group stages if this was like every previous Euro format, and CR7 had nothing to do with Portugal winning the final.

It's good to see the poll reflecting what the rest of the world actually thinks of this 'debate'.

You're sort of re-writing history. United weren't the best team in the country when he joined. In fact, they were 2nd or 3rd best - especially with the rise of Chelsea under Abromavich and the invicibles Arsenal. He was the major reason United were able to reclaim top spot in England after Chelsea's formidable 05/06 season when people thought they would dominate for years. No Ronaldo, and I seriously doubt Utd win the league in 06/07 or 07/08.

At Madrid, yes they went out and splashed on a hoard of players but most of them were initially flops. Kaka was a shadow of his Ballon D'or self and Benzema was only a promising 21 year old and scored 5 league goals in his first season. That team wasn't anywhere near Barca even after that summer. They only came closer couple seasons later and when Xavi and Iniesta started to slow down.

 

[Sayros]

You're sort of re-writing history. United weren't the best team in the country when he joined. In fact, they were 2nd or 3rd best - especially with the rise of Chelsea under Abromavich and the invicibles Arsenal. He was the major reason United were able to reclaim top spot in England after Chelsea's formidable 05/06 season when people thought they would dominate for years. No Ronaldo, and I seriously doubt Utd win the league in 06/07 or 07/08.

At Madrid, yes they went out and splashed on a hoard of players but most of them were initially flops. Kaka was a shadow of his Ballon D'or self and Benzema was only a promising 21 year old and scored 5 league goals in his first season. That team wasn't anywhere near Barca even after that summer. They only came closer couple seasons later and when Xavi and Iniesta started to slow down.

Am I?

United was a powerhouse, maybe not the best team in England, but in a similar situation to Messi's Barcelona, a great team that could slowly integrate young talent without putting too much pressure on them.

Real Madrid's experiment with Kaka' didn't work out, but that doesn't change the fact that, at the time, no one thought he would struggle with his injuries the way he did. It was a massive team being put together, and certain to be a contender.

My only point in all of this is that CR7 hasn't done something risky in his career moves, he's only gone to powerhouses, as a player of his talent and ability should; I have no problems with it. My only issue is when people try to portray it in a different manner to use it against Messi staying loyal to Barcelona.

 

[Gehrman]

I still can't see what club Messi should transfer to that's not a step down from Barcelona? Unlike players like Luiz Ronaldo, Figo and Michael Laudrup. Messi is a La Mazia product and loves and now fully embodies the club. Real Madrid are historically a bigger club, but they are equal in prestige and wealth these days.

 

[Kinsella]

I never said Messi isn’t better footballer than Ronaldo though. Ability wise I’ve always rate Messi higher. My stance is always Messi being better footballers whereas Ronaldo being greater footballer, or at least on par.

That's fair enough.

 

[Bebestation]

You're sort of re-writing history. United weren't the best team in the country when he joined. In fact, they were 2nd or 3rd best - especially with the rise of Chelsea under Abromavich and the invicibles Arsenal. He was the major reason United were able to reclaim top spot in England after Chelsea's formidable 05/06 season when people thought they would dominate for years. No Ronaldo, and I seriously doubt Utd win the league in 06/07 or 07/08.

At Madrid, yes they went out and splashed on a hoard of players but most of them were initially flops. Kaka was a shadow of his Ballon D'or self and Benzema was only a promising 21 year old and scored 5 league goals in his first season. That team wasn't anywhere near Barca even after that summer. They only came closer couple seasons later and when Xavi and Iniesta started to slow down.

Pep even introduced Messi to the super but individualised style of Rijkaard's Ronaldinho & Eto'o Barcelona before ditching it for possession football too. As you said Barcelona was most often at the top & stayed at the top.

Sure its not like Ronaldo joined Villareal either but I remember how Barcelona were a team almost untouchable, how he & managers like Jose were hired to attempt to take that giant of a club down & that's why I find myself personally idolising him more than Messi - the tests, the challenges and the results.

If others appreciate Messi - I totally get why. However I feel that Messi could have & should have stepped up a clear level of ease over C. Ronaldo's career due to his god given technical ability but ultimately he didn't & now we sit here talking about wondering who is better with a player who matched him (some may say better), due to his legendary mental capabilities.