Very highly?
I swear I've heard that exact line somewhere, likely one of the late night shows. At least something very similar.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I swear I've heard that exact line somewhere, likely one of the late night shows. At least something very similar.
One thing which makes me very curious is: Will them want to play into their 40's ? It wouldn't be for very long, after all, nobody can KO father time, but is it crazy to suppose they can still offer something at 41 or 42 ? I have fantasies of Messi retiring in 2030 and Ronaldo in 2027.
A poll would be good.
Since this is the place where we can all argue until the end of times...
2005-2006 Messi was better than 2003-2004 Ronaldo
2004-05 Ronaldo was better than 2006-07 Messi
2005-06 Ronaldo was better than 2007-08 Messi
2008-09 Messi was better than 2006-07 Ronaldo
2007-08 Ronaldo was better than 2009-10 Messi
2010-11 Messi was better than 2008-09 Ronaldo
2011-12 Messi was better than 2009-10 Ronaldo
2012-13 Messi was better than 2010-11 Ronaldo
2011-12 Ronaldo was better than 2013-14 Messi
2014-15 Messi was better than 2012-13 Ronaldo
2013-14 Ronaldo was better than 2015-16 Messi
2016-17 Messi was better than 2014-15 Ronaldo
For me, Messi was better in 7 seasons and Ronaldo in 5.
I explain: This is my comparison of their season's while at the same age. It goes from 18-19 year old at first until when they were going from 29 to 30 years old. We are yet to see how 30 to 31 year old Messi will do compared to 2015-16 Ronaldo and so on. In my opinion, it is better to compare that way than in a head to head current season vs current season, as Messi will always have two years less than Ronaldo. Of course current seasons should be compared, but in a full career analysis I hope it happens this way.
2005-2006 Messi was better than 2003-2004 Ronaldo
2004-05 Ronaldo was better than 2006-07 Messi
2005-06 Ronaldo was better than 2007-08 Messi
2008-09 Messi was better than 2006-07 Ronaldo
2007-08 Ronaldo was better than 2009-10 Messi
2010-11 Messi was better than 2008-09 Ronaldo
2011-12 Messi was better than 2009-10 Ronaldo
2012-13 Messi was better than 2010-11 Ronaldo
2011-12 Ronaldo was better than 2013-14 Messi
2014-15 Messi was better than 2012-13 Ronaldo
2013-14 Ronaldo was better than 2015-16 Messi
2016-17 Messi was better than 2014-15 Ronaldo
For me, Messi was better in 7 seasons and Ronaldo in 5.
I explain: This is my comparison of their season's while at the same age. It goes from 18-19 year old at first until when they were going from 29 to 30 years old. We are yet to see how 30 to 31 year old Messi will do compared to 2015-16 Ronaldo and so on. In my opinion, it is better to compare that way than in a head to head current season vs current season, as Messi will always have two years less than Ronaldo. Of course current seasons should be compared, but in a full career analysis I hope it happens this way.
That's an interesting way to look at it. I think 2014/15 Ronaldo vs 2016/17 Messi is the only one I'd argue with. Messi simply didn't do enough in the Champions League knockouts last year while Cristiano shined there in 2014/15.
The rest either seem fine or I don't know enough, but 09-10 Messi was an utter beast. I saw both 07-08 Ronaldo and 09-10 Messi in quite a few matches, and I'm confident Messi takes this.
Currently: Ronaldo. Over the span of their careers: Messi. IMO anyway.
Fact of the matter is that winning is winning at the end of the day. You either got it done or you didn't, period. Ronaldo did it with a much poorer Portugal squad in the Euros while Messi hasn't in Copa America or the WC with the #1 ranked Argentinian squad. Not a hard concept to grasp or see why people would make such an argument. Especially losing in multiple finals on the international stage, how could you not consider that choking. Messi is an all time great arguably the greatest player ever but don't make it seem like he's perfect or he hasn't messed up or not gotten the job done, that's just ridiculous.
Yep no doubt. Another 3+ years easy in him at the level he's at right now.
It would be great as Barcelona would struggle for quite a while to rebuild the team without him but I think that would make the discussion about who is better even messier than it already is.
Someone still has to get the balloon..
Ronaldo didn't "do it" in the final, unless you consider his sideline shenanigans productive. I'll give him credit for playing his role in getting the team to the final, which Messi has done numerous times.
Comparing greats on the international scene is an outdated and flawed concept anyway, especially now when top South American players start living in Europe as teenagers. Frankly, Argentina might be better off choosing a squad from their Primera division and adding just Messi to it.
I have always been a Messi fan but dissing international tournaments just because he doesn't perform in them seem weird to me. With the advent of super rich clubs with deep squads and unbalanced leagues like la liga, it seem to me that International tournaments are even more important to judge individual greatness. The international tournaments where teams are generally on equal footing and where you don't have the luxury of playing with superstars in every position is the ideal place for a player to show his class and thats what the greatest players did.
Also its not like Messi was scoring tons of goals in those finals and the defense was letting him down, he failed to score in three consecutive international finals. I get that we love Messi and want to defend him but that has to be constituted as a big failure and thats when he was facing Chile for 2 of those finals which is an inferior team to them by most metric.
Ronaldo's Portugal win in the Euros is vastly overrated. He didn't even play in the final. May I remind you that Messi has brought his team to the final as well, but didn't have the luck of a substitute banging one in, in extra time.
What has Ronaldo done at a WC?
Messi, being younger as well, has been ridiculously consistent and holds a bunch of records that only will get better. Both are of course phenomenal players. But Messi is the GOAT.
What has Ronaldo done at a WC?
Messi, being younger as well, has been ridiculously consistent and holds a bunch of records that only will get better. Both are of course phenomenal players. But Messi is the GOAT.
I'm not dissing internationals to defend Messi. Messi has reached multiple finals. The only thing Ronaldo did on reaching his one final was act like a manager in the final minutes, which was pretentious and frankly insulting to Fernando Santos. So if anything, Messi has done more in internationals in my view.
I'm dissing internationals because I don't think it's fair to judge a player what he does once every two or four years in a team of players who are supposed to assemble once in a while and start gelling like they've been playing together forever. This is even more relevant in Argentina's case where every attacker plays in a different league, let alone different club.
I also don't think there is equal footing. Countries with stronger leagues have an advantage. Most successful WC teams have a spine at club level, so in a way they are merely translating their club success at international level. Better management is also a factor. Some of AFA's recent managerial appointments have been laughable.
I'm not saying we shouldn't take international football into consideration. But it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all for judging a player. I'd definitely give it lower priority to club football.
Ronaldo plays for Portugal. Messi plays for Argentina. Yet people still compare their international achievements as if they should be judged equally.
Before Cristiano, Portugal had been to a grand total of 0 finals. Before Messi, Argentina had won 2 World Cups and 14 Copa Americas... why in the world are you treating Argentina reaching a Copa America final in years where Brazil were crap with Portugal reaching a Euros final? In 100 or 200 years, unless we manage to luck our way into a World Cup I doubt you'll ever see a better streak of tournament results for Portugal than the results we've had with Cristiano.
Argentina's run in the last World Cup was their third best World Cup result ever. Portugal's run in 2010 was Portugal's third best World Cup result ever.
Before Cristiano, Portugal had been to a grand total of 0 finals. Before Messi, Argentina had won 2 World Cups and 14 Copa Americas... why in the world are you treating Argentina reaching a Copa America final in years where Brazil were crap with Portugal reaching a Euros final? In 100 or 200 years, unless we manage to luck our way into a World Cup I doubt you'll ever see a better streak of tournament results for Portugal than the results we've had with Cristiano.
Argentina's run in the last World Cup was their third best World Cup result ever. Portugal's run in 2010 was Portugal's third best World Cup result ever.
2 finals. He was our joint highest goalscorer, was in the team of the tournament and finished 12th in the Ballon D'Or back in 2004.
I agree that leading Portugal to finals is a big achievement, but so is Argentina nowadays. Earlier, Argentina used to have a strong core playing in Argentina Primera Division. Now, most top players play from an early age in Europe, so even if the players are better, the team isn't.
My bad. Now that I remember, the SF finish in 2006 wasn't bad either.
The touchline behavior in 2016 was ridiculous and you know it.
Let's just put it this way, if Messi has a hard time playing with Aguero, Di Maria, and now even Dybala, what makes you think he'd perform better with Eder, Nani and Joao Mario?
Argentina has a strong attack, but it's always their defense that gets them anywhere. They're not fluid at all and seem as if they've never played together with or without Messi. It's shame really with all the attacking talents they have.
Fair enough, don't mean to discredit Messi's achievements with Argentina since he's been their best player for a decade now and he's unlucky not to have won one title at least. A lot of people just fail to understand what Cristiano has done for us.
It wasn't ridiculous at all. He was on the bench, couldn't play and he's captaining the team to what might be his country's first ever tournament title. He did what he could to help the team. The players on the pitch couldn't listen to Santos so that's why he was there yelling instructions.
It doesn't matter anyway, it's not like it made any difference but claiming it was insulting to Santos is a bit weird as I guarantee you he wasn't insulted at all.
Does it really have to be a binary choice ?
Is this a debate on other forums as well or just on Man Utd ones?
Don't think anyone else has thought to compare these two if I'm honest.
I am sure there are debates within the season to say Ronaldo has had better ones than Messi, and arguments on ballon d'or, but I don't think in the GOAT debate, Ronaldo is as highly held as Messi in other sections.
http://worldversus.com/Ronaldo-vs-Messi
=Messi 9851 votes Ronaldo 7428
http://www.zimbio.com/polls/Cristiano+Ronaldo/GqbFg_ttsOv/better+Cristiano+Ronaldo+Vs+Leo+Messi
=Messi 62% ronaldo 38%
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...do-lionel-messi-who-is-better-stats-trophies/
=Messi 58% Ronaldo 42% from 13834 votes
https://netivist.org/debate/best-football-player-in-the-world-messi-ronaldo
Messi 63% Ronaldo 34% 2%unsure 1% someone else
These are 4 of the first results from a Messi v ronaldo poll search on google. Unanimous
=Messi 9851 votes Ronaldo 7428
http://www.zimbio.com/polls/Cristiano+Ronaldo/GqbFg_ttsOv/better+Cristiano+Ronaldo+Vs+Leo+Messi
=Messi 62% ronaldo 38%
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...do-lionel-messi-who-is-better-stats-trophies/
=Messi 58% Ronaldo 42% from 13834 votes
https://netivist.org/debate/best-football-player-in-the-world-messi-ronaldo
Messi 63% Ronaldo 34% 2%unsure 1% someone else
These are 4 of the first results from a Messi v ronaldo poll search on google. Unanimous
Taken his country further into the World Cup than the 40+ years previously?
Are you a Trump fan by any chance? Internet polls are about as accurate as Trump tweets.
Messi outperformed Ronaldo last season?
where was he when his team needed him against Juve? Its just as staggering that the best finisher is also the best header and best athlete in the world.
Messi has been playing false 9, since when is that a midfield position?
I'd say the one i purposefully left out waiting for you to crawl into the thread again is the most important one.
How anyone can analyze the stats on this website and surmise anything other than Messi being the better player from a statistical standpoint is beyond me. Remove the names and the knowledge, you're presented with these stats... who do you pick? the guy with 32 more assists than the guy who's played 155 more games than him? or the other guy.
http://messivsronaldo.net/all-time-stats/
Over 300,000 votes in this poll and its 59% to 41% in favour of Messi. You can't liken it to a political opinion poll. This is too broad, and factually accurate.
Sorry this might be a debate for a different thread as I was not trying to imply that Ronaldo has done massively better himself. But I have always been a fan of International football tournaments and World cup is the biggest stage for me. As for International tournaments coming every four years, Messi played 3 International tournaments final consecutively and its not actually very different from the number of CL finals he has played. In general my point is that playing as the talisman of a side which is not filled to brim with superstars gives you a chance to show your individual class a bit more. As much praise as Messi gets for his club performances (and rightly so) it has to be remembered that he was playing with the core of the Spanish team that dominated International scene like few teams before with back to back Euros and a World cup and it was as much Xavi/Iniesta/Busquests and Pep'e tiki taka revolution as Messi that was behind all those trophies. Him leading Argentina to championship in Copas or World cups would have gone a long way to dispel the belief that he can do it without an all conquering supporting cast.
I really want to reiterate that this is not in any way a proof that Ronaldo has been better but despited of what we as Messi fans want to believe, Argentina had a damn good team, especially in SA with Brazil going through dark periods. Take it this way I think Messi is the best player to ever kick a football but if I have to pick a team to won a tournament without knowing rest of the cast I would never pick him above say Maradona, Pele, Platini or Zidane and most of this is because of their International success.
How much further? Would we value Pele, Maradona and all the past greats if they had just taken their countries much further but not actually to a final or silverware?
I mean Turkey won a 3rd place at a WC, so did Croatia. Hardly better teams at the time than current Portugal. Did Portugal get that far at a WC?
At least Messi came close. Losing a final against a rock solid Germany who beat Brasil on their turf 7-0.
I don't really understand your point in what does it prove for Ronaldo over Messi?
If statistics are something you don't like, then there is not much else to go by and for better or worse, Messi has simply been a phenomenal player as has Ronaldo, but with Messi edging it since he is so allround and truly a once in a lifetime talented player. Ronaldo I would say is the more complete athlete, but for me not the better footballer per se.
Messi is younger, has better statistics, came closer than Ronaldo to a World Cup and is the scary thing, at 30, he still has got a couple of years ahead of him to completely cement his status as the GOAT.
So you're basing your whole Messi is better view on the fact that Barca were a better side than Sporting and that Messi was played centrally earlier than Ronaldo?
Basing it more on the 300,000+ votes in the poll. 59-41 is conclusive enough. If you can think of a better way of deciding who a better player is than pretty much the entire population of Lexington Kentucky voting on one specific thing, im all ears.
Between 1965 and 2006, Portugal only qualified for 2 WCs and failed to make it past the group stage both times.
With Ronaldo they made the SF, how is that not significant? Compare that to Argentina, who have qualified and made the knockout stage and further most of the time with or without Messi.
Messi only has better stats than Ronaldo because he played for a dominant Barca side in a goal scoring position much much earlier.
These are great points Cal. I don't think anyone would ever consider Portugal to win the WC or Euros irrespective of who plays for them, and yet they have done quite well. Argentina on the other hand, have not quite reached their potential based on the players they have had over the past decade or so.
Exactly, most people think of Portugal as one of the better teams in europe nowadays because of Ronaldo. Before him they fail to make the WC most of the time.
I've said on numerous occasions that I think Ronaldo is the best European player I've seen in 50+ years of watching football but Portugal did in fact make to the WC semis in 1966 losing to England where Bobby Charlton (wor Bobby) scored both goals.
They were thought of as one of the better teams in Europe before Ronaldo had emerged. They made the semis of Euro 2000 and took a great France team to extra time. They topped a tough WC 2002 qualifying group that saw Holland eliminated before underperforming in the finals, and they were third favourites with the bookies going into Euro 2004. That's not to deny Ronaldo's impact in keeping them relevant as the 'golden generation' faded away, but they were hardly no marks before he came along.
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All this silly stats and figures. All you need to do is open your eyes and realise; Messi is simply better at kicking a ball around a pitch. Plain and simple.
Sure Ronaldo is good too, he works incredibly hard and scores a metric ton of goals. He's like the Terminator, but Messi is the T-1000.
Sure Ronaldo is good too, he works incredibly hard and scores a metric ton of goals. He's like the Terminator, but Messi is the T-1000.
He comfortably outscored him. Barca were poor however so he didn't win the league or CL. Anyway I'm not going to enter into a debate with you. You've been at this Ronaldo worship crap for years. I know you'll never change your mind or listen to anyone.Messi outperformed Ronaldo last season?
Its just as staggering that the best finisher is also the best header and best athlete in the world.
Messi has been playing false 9, since when is that a midfield position?
It should be that easy. The best way to judge players is still to watch them play. To watch both players free of bias is to admit Messi is a better footballer and be ok with that. But people have favourites and will drag out any od metric to argue for them.
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