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Middle East Politics
- Thread starter Raoul
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KSA has Hezbollah in its sights. Israel has had Hezbollah in its sights forever. USA, along with UK and most other countries, considers Hezbollah terrorists.
Iran supports Hezbollah, and has been fighting alongside them against KSA-backed terrorists in Iraq and Syria.
HTS (Al Qaeda) have reportedly made gains against SAA. SAA claiming HTS used chemicals.
I'm wondering what part Turkey is playing - since they were escorted into Syria by HTS. I'm not going to begin thinking what Russia is going to do if the whole region ignites.
Just when we thought ISIS was finished and Al Qaeda's days in Syria were numbered...
Iran supports Hezbollah, and has been fighting alongside them against KSA-backed terrorists in Iraq and Syria.
HTS (Al Qaeda) have reportedly made gains against SAA. SAA claiming HTS used chemicals.
I'm wondering what part Turkey is playing - since they were escorted into Syria by HTS. I'm not going to begin thinking what Russia is going to do if the whole region ignites.
Just when we thought ISIS was finished and Al Qaeda's days in Syria were numbered...
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The Middle East is a nightmare. Too many religious factions and too much history. The West has been trying to control and change things for centuries now and still hasn't learned its lesson from the Crusades. There is hope, the people are slowly coming around and wanting a better, fairer life, but it cannot be forced. I think the best thing the West could do is completely back out and take a more supportive role unless they absolutely have to intervene to prevent genocide or a conflict that could escalate globally.
Stop selling weapons to the ME and stop trying to enforce regime change would be the two things I would say would only benefit the region in the long run. Women being allowed to drive in SA is a start and shows that slowly but surely things are changing. The internet must be credited for speeding much of these changes up and could be used to help encourage more changes. Promoting education but accepting that even with change, some regions will still never fully accept many Western ideals would be yet another step towards bringing the ME closer to the West in the long run.
Also, understanding that the USA's blind support of Israel and distrust and hatred of Iran contributes to so much hatred and distrust is another major factor. Promoting peace talks and giving Palestine back some land would be a major step in the right direction, but we all know, that's never going to happen. Especially not with the two in charge of the USA and Israel at the moment.
Stop selling weapons to the ME and stop trying to enforce regime change would be the two things I would say would only benefit the region in the long run. Women being allowed to drive in SA is a start and shows that slowly but surely things are changing. The internet must be credited for speeding much of these changes up and could be used to help encourage more changes. Promoting education but accepting that even with change, some regions will still never fully accept many Western ideals would be yet another step towards bringing the ME closer to the West in the long run.
Also, understanding that the USA's blind support of Israel and distrust and hatred of Iran contributes to so much hatred and distrust is another major factor. Promoting peace talks and giving Palestine back some land would be a major step in the right direction, but we all know, that's never going to happen. Especially not with the two in charge of the USA and Israel at the moment.
feck.
What bothers me about these kinds of interpretations of the ME landscape is that various actors like Iran (Hamas, Hezbollah...) are almost exclusively interpreted through the lens of Western or Israeli actions. What they want and what they do primarily appears as a result of Western/American/Israeli activities, and so their aggressive stances are implicitly interpreted as - at their core - reactive. But they are also actors in their own right.
Iran, for example, has genuine imperialist ambitions in the region, and has engaged in a decidedly offensive and aggressive foreign policy in recent years. I doubt any kind of Western foreign policy will realistically change this. But still this is often ignored as a primary factor to calculate with. I also doubt any Palestinian government involving Hamas will be ready for any actual solution on a 'land for peace' basis, they have made that very clear.
So imo these ideas of making things better by radically reversing traditional policies are based on a similar Western-centric political idealism as those geopolitical adventures you - rightly - discard earlier in your post.
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ffs
Just when I was talking about how safe and stable Lebanon has been for the past few years.
Saudi Arabia should try an all out invasion of Lebanon, see how that ends.
They're struggling with kids in Yemen, imagine them trying to take on Hezbollah on their own soilffs
Just when I was talking about how safe and stable Lebanon has been for the past few years.
Saudi Arabia should try an all out invasion of Lebanon, see how that ends.
Exactly, they kept Israel in one village for a month and that was 2006. The problem would be the divisions it would create inside Lebanon.They're struggling with kids in Yemen, imagine them trying to take on Hezbollah on their own soil
Why can't everyone just go home, back within internationally recognised borders, and work on making life better for their people? Wouldn't that be easier and better all round?
The crown prince seems smart, competent and capable which is a rare virtue there. He wants to reduce the oil dependency of the kingdom's economy by 2030 and replace it with more diversified investments. To attract that, he needs to relax the neo-conservative element of the kingdom including the clerics, hence the purge.
Whether it works or not remains to be seen but he is definitely not taking any half measures. If he can further address the human rights abuses of south asian migrant workers, he might turn out to be a tremendous development for the region and a great reference point for the west to interact with.
Whether it works or not remains to be seen but he is definitely not taking any half measures. If he can further address the human rights abuses of south asian migrant workers, he might turn out to be a tremendous development for the region and a great reference point for the west to interact with.
That would be great if be wouldn't also be messing around with all his neighbours. People often confuse reformer with rulers that simply consolidate power.
The whole spiel about opening Saudi Arabia and reduce oil dependency is a nice slogan, but in reality it's an impossible task.
He also has to be careful not to piss off too many elements within his own country. Its one thing to reduce the influence of religious clerics and police and another to imprison princes and business leaders. If he's not careful he risks getting overthrown himself.
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Some big fishes have been arrested:
Al-Waleed bin Talal among other Al-Saud princes.
Waleed Al-Ibrahim, a billionaire and the founder of MBC the laregest Arab TV group.
Mohamed Al-Amoudi, a prominent businessman and billionaire.
Bakr bin Laden (Osama's half brother) CEO of Bin Laden agroup.
Saleh Kamel, a prominent billionaire.
And many other ministers and royal court officials.
Al-Waleed bin Talal among other Al-Saud princes.
Waleed Al-Ibrahim, a billionaire and the founder of MBC the laregest Arab TV group.
Mohamed Al-Amoudi, a prominent businessman and billionaire.
Bakr bin Laden (Osama's half brother) CEO of Bin Laden agroup.
Saleh Kamel, a prominent billionaire.
And many other ministers and royal court officials.
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Not unexpected. I guess Israel is bombing Hezbollah now?
Probably some scheme involving the US, Saudi, Israel...them bedfellows
US might be the common denominator but Saudi and Israel are not bedfellows.Probably some scheme involving the US, Saudi, Israel...them bedfellows
Publicly no, but you can be certain they're pretty much aligned privately, especially when it comes to animosity towards Iran and her allies.
Highly doubt it. Saudi will be looking for it's next puppet in Lebanon who is stronger than Saad el Hariri to start religious tensions
Strategically for now yes but selling a pro-Israel relationship to any muslim country is ultimately mission impossible.
This isn't the 70s anymore, it's not the taboo it used to be. Pan-Arab nationalism is dead and the middle east has turned to sectarian tribalism. The Saudis despise Iran and Shias and probably care little for the Palestinian predicament, so they'd probably see little issue with buddying up with the Israelis to have at the Iranians.
Could be, may be that's why MBS jailed all the clerics and religious nutbags.
The rumour on the street is that Saudi and Israel are looking for an excuse to go after Hezbollah in the Lebanon and this is related to the Lebanese premier stepping down and going to Saudi.
That's the malls in Ashrafiyeh empty then.
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Alarming, just hype or is something planned?
I find myself wondering: Can China exert diplomatic pressure on US to withdraw support from KSA attacking either Lebanon or Iran? Israel would of course like to strike at Hezbollah, but are not so likely to cast the first stone. KSA can't really do squat without support.
Where would KSA attack from? Jordan? Israel?
Pakistan
I heard speculation that SA is trying to split the Lebanese military and Hezbollah and attack (or get Israel to attack) Hez without getting a response from the official military.
Now I was enjoying cheaper gas again and a bunch of assholes decided to start another war
China doesn’t have that influence yet, we buy from them so they need our money and until they change to an economy like ours (I think they are going in that direction)they don’t have the pull.
You actually think that the ME is dependent on the west for anything? If US doesn’t give it the weapons, they will get it from elsewhere (China, Russia) and at the same time, US will lose its military base in ME. US isn’t the one in control of this arrangement.
Btw KSA aside, other ME states are actually very developed.
My understanding:
Team Iran (sponsor: Russia) : Syria, 75% of Lebanon, 50% of Irak, 25% of China
Team USA/KSA: the UAE, Koweit, Bahrein, Israel, France, the UK >>>>> They want a change of regime in Syria/Iran BY ANY MEANS
Qatar doesn't want to promote a future conflict involving Iran and - consequently - was punished by his neighbours
Team Iran (sponsor: Russia) : Syria, 75% of Lebanon, 50% of Irak, 25% of China
Team USA/KSA: the UAE, Koweit, Bahrein, Israel, France, the UK >>>>> They want a change of regime in Syria/Iran BY ANY MEANS
Qatar doesn't want to promote a future conflict involving Iran and - consequently - was punished by his neighbours
The KSA operate upon request of the USA