simply put no they shouldn’t carry it on, even Les Ferdinand said it lost its meaning.
Milwall will be Millwall: fans boo players for taking a knee
- Thread starter Botim
- Start date
Just read it.
Sounds nice.
Slight problem is what Kane highlights, they do it so the kids can see it and ask their parents.
This is where i think it fails. The fact that most racism, or any kind of ism (sexism, fascism...) is grounded from the family.
If your father is a racist scum, well, your kind of fecked. And most likely to become just that. A racist scumbag.
This is where i think the hands on approach, directly involving kids and football superstars face to face, - circumnavigating the family explanation - is better, or would likely bring better results.
Just my opinion, not based on any knowledge about the specific subject.
I'm not sure you got my point. Only my first few words were in regards to booing. Not much to be said about something as distasteful as booing a 'No room for racism' symbol. My main point is wondering how long they plan to kneel before games.
Especially in the context of lockdown, having fans is a privilege and Millwall should have it taken away.
All the fans that booed should be given a covid vaccine which has never been tested.
Not a bad point, Harry - not bad at all. In fact, it's one of those points it's very hard to argue against: what possible downside is it to spreading awareness of an actual issue?
Cretinous team with cretinous fans.
Pointless club, pointless part of the country. Wipe it all and start again.
About 20 West Ham fans did the same, Milwall was the majority.
That's not a reason to not try to continue to fight against it and continue raising awareness. Which is precisely what they're doing.
If it has some effect such as what he's talking about then it's 100% worth it.
QPR got some shit because they stopped doing it.
Their Director of Football said "The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge. Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will. "
Their Director of Football said "The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge. Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will. "
I wonder what the venn diagram looks like for people who don't like this gesture and those who demand that players and coaches should wear a poppy.
The sad reality is that many people don't care enough about injustices as long as it doesn't effect them or their family.
You can see the same with terrorism/extremism. Muslim terror = Defcon 1 and right-wing terror = Defcon 3.
Of course maybe there are better ways to send a message but booing it shows a serious lack of character.
The sad reality is that many people don't care enough about injustices as long as it doesn't effect them or their family.
You can see the same with terrorism/extremism. Muslim terror = Defcon 1 and right-wing terror = Defcon 3.
Of course maybe there are better ways to send a message but booing it shows a serious lack of character.
Booing is not only bad taste but also does them no good in terms of public reception.
That said, the idea of supporting what is self-proclaimed "Marxist organisation" that is in favor of dangerous ideas and certainly is undoubtedly controversial (there is no universal consensus that BLM agenda is positive) is mind baffling.
Rasism has no place in football or any other walk of life but supporting a movement which is highly controversial also among the black community was a bad idea from the very beginning.
If we want to use football as a platform why there is no mention of Uighurs held in China concentration camps?
That said, the idea of supporting what is self-proclaimed "Marxist organisation" that is in favor of dangerous ideas and certainly is undoubtedly controversial (there is no universal consensus that BLM agenda is positive) is mind baffling.
Rasism has no place in football or any other walk of life but supporting a movement which is highly controversial also among the black community was a bad idea from the very beginning.
If we want to use football as a platform why there is no mention of Uighurs held in China concentration camps?
Heard some West Ham fans doing the same.
The issue is because black players have been racially abused in England and pretty much every league across the world.
The Chinese issue is a problem, but the FA cannot change that with any campaign. But the change can start with the people in the ground and the clubs these people belong to.
I think clubs are frightened to be the first ones not to do it. Becoming a bit like the poppy wearing on TV.
I'll no doubt be castigated as a racist but probably feel similarly.
Yes, racism exists in football. Yes, there should be proactive measures to address it. Yes, black managers, officials and executives need to be encouraged.
Unfortunately I feel the kneeling is little more than a hollow gesture and exercise in virtue signalling (hate that phrase as its usually used by right wing knobs on the Daily Mail).
When do they stop doing it? Never? Next month? Next year? The day every single possible instance of racism is eradicated?
I am in no way condoning racism, denying its existence or that something need to be done. I just think the kneeling is pointless.
.... Oh, and those Millwall fans are indeed dicks.
I completely agree with him. Millwall, however are, as always, scum.
Or heroes. feck YOU, I'm Milwall!
Which is a perfectly ok opinion to have. But booing it does not suggest that you don’t feel the message is coming across, it suggest you don’t agree with the message full stop.
100% agree. Booing is pure cuntishness.
I suspect they are off the "all lives matter" ilk. Completely ignoring the fact that the imbalance is currently heavily weighted against black people. Essentially racism through ignorance and I'm sure some are overtly and actively racist too, from what I've seen from Millwall fans.
Feck off Millwall. Horrible club.
I don't blame them at all. This 'taking the knee' malarky is a cringe worthy American import that is synonymous with the likes of BLM.
I'll keep this brief as I'm using a horrible stand-in phone atm.
I don't think this should looked at whether this gesture is right or wrong. I'm just afraid that this gesture plays in the hands of people who should be doing much more regarding racism and homophobia in football.
On the face of it, it's great that we are showing solidarity but I know and you know there are open racists and closet racists to whom this gesture will be even more inflammatory potentially. Now I'm not against being inflammatory towards racism but Id rather we dealt with this radically and ripped it out root and stem. You get caught racially abusing anyone - you a lifetime ban for your family and known friends, associates. Its an age old tactic of peer accountability. It's used in the military to great effect. It is extreme but not as extreme as someone leading a double life and potentially commiting suicide like Justin Fashanu. FA and football world are by and large are tone deaf and reactionary. We're all waiting for next crisis before dealing with it.
We should have had Terry sacked by Chelsea. Banned. Etc. To set a precedent. All were doing now, imo is putting a plaster on a compound fracture.
Same for homophobia in football. I'm sure it's nice an all to see lgbtq boots and microphones but are they going to protect a gay footballer from coming out? Ultimately I think its these are all token gestures that were whipped up in the moment rather than a concerted proactive effort.
No white text, well then shut the feck up.
I don't deny that there is no issue in football in the UK. In fact I'm in favour of organic work to get rid of rasism once and for all.
What I find baffling is the idea of piggybacking on what is at best a highly controversial movement (and at worst a cynic attempt to destroy society).
In regards to the China issue, well, I like to think that we are not completely helpless there.
FA acknowleging the issue would give it a massive platform and therefore visibility which could trigger off some positive actions.
If China is no good then simply supporting the NHS sounds like far more apt idea. The pandemic hasn't stopped and somehow from my perspective (don't live in the UK) the campaign to recognize NHS has sort of weakened).
Bulldoze the lot, turn it in to a giant Asda, as it would be far more beneficial than millwall actually existing.
Booing is tantamount to racism. Imo, you can question whether the message has served its purpose but to oppose it in its entirety is fecking abhorrent.
I'm against the BLM organisation. They want to break up the family nucleus. They don't want kids to have fathers which means the kids are more likely to fail at school, have drug addictions, alcohol addictions, behaviour problems, live in poverty or go to prison.
Wow.
Name and shame those idiots!
I doubt they need "education", it won't work, punishment should be the way. After being shamed, may that be the education they needed - that's how it feels to be mock and all, it's how racism works - certain people are being mocked, teased and made fun off.
I'm sure not all Millwall fans. It's similar to the Chelsea fans, at the train being racist. Not all are racist, just the vocal ones that made the loudest noise. Geez.
Maybe "no fans allowed" restriction-slash-punishment to be imposed when this things happened?
This covid time showed how clubs can still survive with no tickets sold. So it's a kick back to the shitty fans for not behaving, until they have to if they want to attend.
Name and shame those idiots!
I doubt they need "education", it won't work, punishment should be the way. After being shamed, may that be the education they needed - that's how it feels to be mock and all, it's how racism works - certain people are being mocked, teased and made fun off.
I'm sure not all Millwall fans. It's similar to the Chelsea fans, at the train being racist. Not all are racist, just the vocal ones that made the loudest noise. Geez.
Maybe "no fans allowed" restriction-slash-punishment to be imposed when this things happened?
This covid time showed how clubs can still survive with no tickets sold. So it's a kick back to the shitty fans for not behaving, until they have to if they want to attend.
I hope I'm not enabling a racist piece of shit but why?
Well put. Racism will never be eradicated, unfortunately, and as we can see here, what constitutes racism varies from person to person.
You what?Very close to identical.
If it puts your mind at ease, I don't think I'm a racist piece of shit. I'm mixed race (white and Asian) so I can't claim racial purity or anything like that
I strongly believe in treating others based on the 'content of their character', their actions and their values, not on the colour of their skin, sexuality or whatever. My reasons for wanting this 'taking the knee' nonsense to stop are as follows:
1) it's an Americanism and I think taking a knee represents subordination rather than solidarity, unity or anything else thus it's a poor choice of gesture for anti-racism.
2) for many, it is because the gesture is synonymous with the likes of BLM promote far-left politics (they were quite open about this until recently). Let's not forget that not long ago, the cenotaph was descicrated and the Union flag burnt in the name of BLM etc. Doesn't sit well with many.
3) its cringe worthy and sanctimonious
4) yes, racism still exists in football. But I feel confident that colour doesn't matter to the vast majority of those involved in football or supporting the game.
At what point could we say that racial acceptance has been achieved? Are we to just carry on getting up in arms about something that isn't preventing minorities from competing at professional level or supporting their favourite club?
He's right. This was in their manifesto. They've since taken it off their website.
I can't make links due to being new, but this isn't entirely true. This is the quote which has since been removed from their website:
"we make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."
This 'disruption of Western-prescribed nuclear family' isn't the same as forcing everyone to have a single parent family. There is emphatic language on mothers, as essentially, in many of their realities, they are the primary caregivers. I'd interpret this as making the best of reality, rather than making this a statement of what it should be.
The principle of insult the post and not the poster faces its sternest test yet.
Are you the actual Moz?If it puts your mind at ease, I don't think I'm a racist piece of shit. I'm mixed race (white and Asian) so I can't claim racial purity or anything like that
My reasons for wanting this 'taking the knee' nonsense to stop are as follows:
1) it's an Americanism and I think taking a knee represents subordination rather than solidarity, unity or anything else thus it's a poor choice of gesture for anti-racism.
2) for many, it is because the gesture is synonymous with the likes of BLM promote far-left politics (they were quite open about this until recently). Let's not forget that not long ago, the cenotaph was descicrated and the Union flag burnt in the name of BLM etc. Doesn't sit well with many.
3) its cringe worthy and sanctimonious
4) yes, racism still exists in football. But I feel confident that colour doesn't matter to the vast majority of those involved in football or supporting the game.
At what point could we say that racial acceptance has been achieved? Are we to just carry on getting up in arms about something that isn't preventing minorities from competing at professional level or supporting their favourite club?