Mitten: Manchester United MUST put money back into Old Trafford

[Maroo]

Interesting article from Mitten calling for refurbishment of our stadium:

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/andy-mitten-manchester-united-must-13657766.amp

 

[SAFicus]

I agree with this.

I still enjoy going to the stadium on match day and it is a great ground, but the "theatre of dreams" should wow people. Also tweaking the acoustics could be very beneficial if possible.

 

[noodlehair]

He is right. The ground looks and feels a bit of a dump compared to some of the newer ones in the country...a lot of the issues can also be fixed with just a refurb rather than needing to rebuild the whole thing. It's not so much the old fashioned look as the fact they've literally done nothing to improve or update the facilities there in pretty much forever. I mean in places it looks like it hasn't even been cleaned since the first world war.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Maybe. My main gripes are about atmosphere and seating/extension issues. The way some season ticket holders have been treated is very shabby and the additional wheelchair space, though welcome, has thrown up other issues that haven't yet been solved to the satisfaction of a great many fans. I'd also like to see United put OT at the vanguard of safe standing.

As for the aesthetics, I wouldn't say no to a lick of paint here and there but I'd be dead against putting match-goers out to any degree for purely cosmetic reasons. Yes the ground looks a bit of a state from certain angles, but so does the Taj Mahal. I'm immensely proud that United call Old Trafford home and no unsightly brickwork or flaky paint will make me think otherwise.

 

[pcaming]

It does feel a bit old.

 

[arthurka]

Everything he said is the truth..

 

[We need an rvn]

To be fair, any stadium that is 100+ years old is going to look dated compared to the Allianz / AT&T (Cowboys) / Mercedes (Atlanta)...and to be honest I would't mind one bit if we went down this route and got us a spanking new £1b stadium to get the party rockin'. Looks like we own enough of the land around OT for it too.

Most likely though if they do make any changes I can see more going down the same routes of Barca & Real by rejuvinating the stadium & updating rather than building a new one

 

[Adisa]

The leg room is a joke.
It would be a logistical nightmare but if it were possible, we should consider renovating the entire stadium.

 

[RedStarUnited]

To be fair, any stadium that is 100+ years old is going to look dated compared to the Allianz / AT&T (Cowboys) / Mercedes (Atlanta)...and to be honest I would't mind one bit if we went down this route and got us a spanking new £1b stadium to get the party rockin'. Looks like we own enough of the land around OT for it too.

Most likely though if they do make any changes I can see more going down the same routes of Barca & Real by rejuvenating the stadium & updating rather than building a new one

The Camp Nou has been rejuvenated recently? I went there for the clasico in August and that ground looks and feels very old.

 

[Adisa]

To be fair, any stadium that is 100+ years old is going to look dated compared to the Allianz / AT&T (Cowboys) / Mercedes (Atlanta)...and to be honest I would't mind one bit if we went down this route and got us a spanking new £1b stadium to get the party rockin'. Looks like we own enough of the land around OT for it too.

Most likely though if they do make any changes I can see more going down the same routes of Barca & Real by rejuvinating the stadium & updating rather than building a new one

The problem is where would you move 76,000 people to?

 

[Plato]

A new roof for the North (Sir Alex Ferguson) Stand would be nice. I've sat in the third tier a few times and you're cut off from seeing most of the other three stands due to how low the roof hangs overhead. Takes away a lot from the match day experience. It also makes Old Trafford look a lot smaller than it is IMO.

With all the development planned at the Bernabeu and Nou Camp, we really should be planning some renovations of our own.

There should also be a big slide for exiting the stadium so I don't have to walk down the stairs.

 

[Adisa]

The Camp Nou has been rejuvenated recently? I went there for the clasico in August and that ground looks and feels very old.

They just started and will be completed in 2019

 

[Mr Anderson]

For its age it looks alright, of course it isnt a patch on newer stadiums - but it isnt an eyesore or anything like that.

But as will all good things, they get outdated. Even our family homes get rickety after a few decades.

 

[Zebs]

Can we put escalators in please?

Sincerely,

Lazy feck.

 

[We need an rvn]

The Camp Nou has been rejuvenated recently? I went there for the clasico in August and that ground looks and feels very old.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ew-multi-million-pound-stadiums-compared.html

 

[MemphisDepay]

Andy Mitten MUST stop writing headlines.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The problem is where would you move 76,000 people to?

Lets ask our neighbours if we can share with them? not

 

[We need an rvn]

The problem is where would you move 76,000 people to?

I might be wrong but I'm sure we own enough land to keep playing at OT until the new one is completed based on the latest map of land ownership

 

[AXVnee7]

I agree with doing something similar to what Barca and Madrid are doing.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

For its age it looks alright, of course it isnt a patch on newer stadiums - but it isnt an eyesore or anything like that.

But as will all good things, they get outdated. Even our family homes get rickety after a few decades.

But I fundamentally disagree with this premise - if I want to eat dinner off the shiny floor I'll go to the Emirates, if I generally want a giggle I'll go to the Emirates, if I want to soak up unique footballing history I'll go anywhere but the Emirates.

The new Wembley's another case in point. I've been a couple of times for rugby finals and it's an impressive build with plenty of space in the stands and in the concourses, but there's not a single bit of soul to be had. The concourses resemble airport shopping areas as much as anything. Give me the brick and that shitty red bumpy plastic of OT any day.

I appreciate you're not saying swap OT for a shiny soulless arena and I don't blame Arsenal, Spurs or the FA going as modern as they can with their new builds but I worry about paving paradise and putting up a parking lot over something that no amount of money and effort can replace.

A new roof for the North (Sir Alex Ferguson) Stand would be nice. I've sat in the third tier a few times and you're cut off from seeing most of the other three stands due to how low the roof hangs overhead. Takes away a lot from the match day experience. It also makes Old Trafford look a lot smaller than it is IMO.

With all the development planned at the Bernabeu and Nou Camp, we really should be planning some renovations of our own.

There should also be a big slide for exiting the stadium so I don't have to walk down the stairs.

The last time I was in there was the Mendez/Carroll game. I agree the seats aren't the best up there but we had a great side-on view of Carroll clawing the ball back from about a mile behind his line. Great times.

 

[Pavl3n]

Lets ask our neighbours if we can share with them? not

No way...

 

[klayton88]

The leg room is a joke.

Agreed. I've stopped wearing jeans to OT as my bollocks just can't take it.

 

[mark_a]

I sincerely hope we renovate and update rather than building a new one. The new ones seem soulless and the sound seems to dissipate even more.

We are lucky in that our stadium was good to begin with, then the work on it was done well and reasonably future-proofed. I'm not arsed that people show up & might thing it's a bit grubby. It's a bloody football ground! I'm only 45, but I remember Old Trafford in the late 70s and THAT was grubby! With the little shop at the front.

 

[Raees]

To be fair all these arguments about it potentially being 'soulless'.. Old Trafford isn't that soulful at the best of times these days, it is not really a stadium which captures the senses and is rarely rocking or atmospheric. If we got a brand new stadium I wouldn't be too averse to that happening.

 

[Invictus]

Old Trafford would definitely benefit from a partial upgrade, or even a cosmetic makeover - been a while since the aesthetically odd quadrant expansion. But spending loads of money on doing that, or expanding the stadium to 90,000+ doesn't make a lot of sense for the Glazers - who're businessmen first and foremost, and don't have a great vested interest in the support aspect of the club (like the Socios for Madrid, or the ~180,000 members of Barcelona). Matchday revenue has been trending downwards (as a part of the total revenue pie) for a while now with all the big commercial and broadcasting deals, so spending hundreds of millions on refurbishment (like the Santiago Bernabéu and Camp Nou projects) is unrealistic when the money is going to come out of their pockets and they aren't going to accrue significantly improved immediate returns (relative to commercial and broadcasting revenue):

Commercial revenue for the year was £268.3m, an increase of £71.4m, or 36.3%, over the previous year.

Meanwhile, broadcasting revenue for the year was £140.4m, an increase of £32.7m, or 30.4%, on the previous year, which the club says was "primarily due to participation in Uefa competitions".

And matchday revenue was £106.6m, an increase of £16.0m, or 17.7%,on 2014-15, thanks to that European participation and the club's run to the FA Cup final.

The club's ambitious revenue target for 2016-17 will be helped by the new Premier League TV deals, with the club pointing out that "domestic live broadcasting rights [are] up 70% and international rights up approximately 40% for the 2017 to 2019 cycle".

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37339740

Considering that, any major renovation project (or even replacement) is more likely to be undertaken when England holds a major international tournament - that's when these projects are subsidized and clubs frequently get advantageous deals. e.g. West Ham pay only £2.5m per year for the Olympic Stadium (which was built for more than half a billion), and Manchester City won the stadium lottery.

 

[cyberman]

Wasn't there talk of rebuilding due to having little space for corporate boxes etc?

 

[Ali Dia]

Old Trafford would definitely benefit from a partial upgrade, or even a cosmetic makeover - been a while since the aesthetically odd quadrant expansion. But spending loads of money on doing that, or expanding the stadium to 90,000+ doesn't make a lot of sense for the Glazers - who're businessmen first and foremost, and don't have a great vested interest in the support aspect of the club (like the Socios for Madrid, or the ~180,000 members of Barcelona). Matchday revenue has been trending downwards (as a part of the total revenue pie) for a while now with all the big commercial and broadcasting deals, so spending hundreds of millions on refurbishment (like the Santiago Bernabéu and Camp Nou projects) is unrealistic when the money is going to come out of their pockets and they aren't going to accrue significantly improved immediate returns (relative to commercial and broadcasting revenue):

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37339740

Considering that, any major renovation project (or even replacement) is more likely to be undertaken when England holds a major international tournament - that's when these projects are subsidized and clubs frequently get advantageous deals. e.g. West Ham pay only £2.5m per year for the Olympic Stadium (which was built for more than half a billion), and Manchester City won the stadium lottery.

Nice post and all of it true. That's not to say we couldn't keep more on top of things in an ongoing way but I can't see the owners building a new stadium. That's not where the money is at.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Agreed. I've stopped wearing jeans to OT as my bollocks just can't take it.

Show off

To be fair all these arguments about it potentially being 'soulless'.. Old Trafford isn't that soulful at the best of times these days, it is not really a stadium which captures the senses and is rarely rocking or atmospheric. If we got a brand new stadium I wouldn't be too averse to that happening.

The atmosphere, though obviously linked to the infrastructure of the ground, is for me a separate issue from the soul of the place. Just knowing this was the same ground on which our great players of old played is a great, irreplaceable feeling in my opinion. Yes it's not the same turf, or the same changing rooms (although they have more than a whiff of the Cold War about them) and fans aren't watching from the same terraces but though I'm obviously biased there's no competition between OT and New Build 101 for me.

Progress is progress but I'm sure a fair number of Arsenal, West Ham and Spurs fans would agree they've lost something forever through their respective moves. It's not the be all and end all for sure but I know I'd be very sad to see OT go.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

But I fundamentally disagree with this premise - if I want to eat dinner off the shiny floor I'll go to the Emirates, if I generally want a giggle I'll go to the Emirates, if I want to soak up unique footballing history I'll go anywhere but the Emirates.

The new Wembley's another case in point. I've been a couple of times for rugby finals and it's an impressive build with plenty of space in the stands and in the concourses, but there's not a single bit of soul to be had. The concourses resemble airport shopping areas as much as anything. Give me the brick and that shitty red bumpy plastic of OT any day.

I appreciate you're not saying swap OT for a shiny soulless arena and I don't blame Arsenal, Spurs or the FA going as modern as they can with their new builds but I worry about paving paradise and putting up a parking lot over something that no amount of money and effort can replace.

Great post!

 

[RedStarUnited]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ew-multi-million-pound-stadiums-compared.html

Ah so its panned but not done yet. Makes sense.

 

[Grande]

Old Trafford to me is like a church, a building like Notre Dame or Westminster cathedral. It should be possible to stand an sing, acoustics are a must, but I wouldn't want to swap it for something new, shiny and rocking.

 

[Havak]

Roof leaks like a sieve. It's getting tired, definitely needs some tlc our ground.

 

[muller]

When you try to compare Old Trafford to the newer stadiums - Atlant's Mercedes Stadium, or even Wembley - it cant be done.

The sports that are played in a stadium make a big difference. The big "soulless" stadiums being built, probably are better for attracting visitors for NFL games, whereas it would probably be hideous when 60,000 of 75k are regulars to watch a less stop starty game like football.

New England Patriots moved stadiums in around 2002-2003, but they still managed to keep some uniqueness to their stadium. However, a lot has changed in the last 15 years and it seems that most new stadiums are carbon copies of others (budget depending).

I personally love Old Trafford. I had a season ticket up there whilst I was at Uni for 4 years, and I still try to get up to see a game a couple of times a year (harder with kids!). I love the history, but do think an expansion and renovation is needed (to a degree).

 

[Lennon7]

I love Old Trafford the way it is, but I wouldn't be against an upgrade to the facilities and a general refurb. Next time you're outside OT just look up at the iconic white metal structures on the roof, it's filthy.

 

[Acole9]

I might be wrong but I'm sure we own enough land to keep playing at OT until the new one is completed based on the latest map of land ownership

That's right, the Glazers bought the land.

 

[Sarni]

It would cost us north of £1billion to build a new stadium that is bigger than the current one (because it would also have to be considerably bigger) and it would take ages to earn that money back. Given current ticket demand we could probably still fill a 90,000 or even 100,000 seater but that still won't solve the cost problem of building a new arena.

 

[Mart1974]

Mitten mentions that City have spent money on their stadium. Really, I thought it was built for thr commonwealth games and given to them.

 

[roonster09]

It would cost us north of £1billion to build a new stadium that is bigger than the current one (because it would also have to be considerably bigger) and it would take ages to earn that money back. Given current ticket demand we could probably still fill a 90,000 or even 100,000 seater but that still won't solve the cost problem of building a new arena.

Small expansion and safe standing area will solve it isn't it?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Mitten mentions that City have spent money on their stadium. Really, I thought it was built for thr commonwealth games and given to them.

They have developed it and the area round it, but as you say they had a nice start with not having to pay for the initial stadium.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

The toilets and facilities for us peasant fans (never been corporate so can't comment) are a joke for the 'biggest club in the world'.

Little things like the hand dryers, just put some fecking Dyson ones in FFS, probably make money from sponsorship in some capacity.