MLS 2019 Season Thread

mazhar13

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A couple of Canadian players had great performances yesterday.

Mark-Anthony Kaye (TFC Academy product) got 3 assists as LAFC beat the Sounders 4-1.

Jackson-Hamel got 2 goals off the bench in a solid win for Montreal against Philly.
 

RedDevilCanuck

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A couple of Canadian players had great performances yesterday.

Mark-Anthony Kaye (TFC Academy product) got 3 assists as LAFC beat the Sounders 4-1.

Jackson-Hamel got 2 goals off the bench in a solid win for Montreal against Philly.
Great to hear.

Things are finally starting to turn.
 

poleglass red

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The state of MLS in a nutshell: the last surviving MLS team in the Concacaf CL tournament went down to Mexican team Monterrey 10-2 on aggregate.

It'll be an all-Mexican final this year between Monterrey and Tigres.
Not really, TFC should have won it last yr. Not a fan of that tournament as it starts pre season when most teams don't even have their squads filled. I'm a TFC fan, we didn't even have our best player ie Pozuelo signed for it this season, and possibly another big signing imminent.I'd say Liga MX is ahead in terms of quality overall but the gap wouldn't be much at all
 

Loublaze

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$200 million expansion fee, too...No wonder there's no real drive towards investing in the sport.

They're slowly expanding to become as large as the other North American leagues, and if they continue down this road, then MLS will become an easy money factory for the owners. I really hope that some of them develop the drive to invest into the sport and grow it, but I doubt that'll really be the case.
It just .. it really is a recipe for disaster. I can’t think of a logic reason to keep adding teams.
Expansion fee is a good ponzi scheme...

It's crazy. People are arguing US is huge so it can handle, but the interest in MLS is still very niche.
Interesting article on the subject.

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/8/9/12404638/mls-expansion-fee-number-of-teams-200-million

Recently, it was reported that the MLS expansion fee for a new team could be $200 million dollars, and that number has fans scratching their heads. Many have asked how a league with a small national TV contract and numerous teams still losing money could demand a fee that large.

The answer is simple: MLS’s $200 million franchise fee still makes business sense for potential owners. And you can expect another decade of expansion even if you, the fan, don’t like it.

First, the recent history. Only a few years ago, MLS reportedly bought back the floundering Chivas USA franchise for about $75 million. David Beckham, as part of his playing contract, bought a franchise in Miami for only $25 million. Toronto FC paid just $10 million to join the league in 2007. No matter how you measure it, in the span of a decade, the value of an MLS franchise has jumped quite a bit. So where did that most recent nine-figure number come from?

Forbes valued at least three MLS franchises north of $200 million back in 2015. By comparison, Forbes also estimates the value of the five worst-off NHL teams to be between $180 million and $250 million. MLS franchises are the same ballpark. If you’re wondering how this is possible when lots of MLS teams operate in the red, you might be surprised to learn that 14 of the 30 NHL teams have "negative operating income." Many MLS clubs lose money, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be hot properties.

Sports franchises in North America are more akin to buying a restaurant or real estate than a venture that promises large annual profits. Business owners buy a sports franchise for the medium or long-term: they hope annual revenue covers costs like player salaries, they try to squeeze a publicly financed stadium out of local politicos, they bank on always increasing TV revenue and then they sell the franchise at a handsome profit after a decade or two. You don’t have to be a genius to realize how sweet a deal that is. It’s as simple as sit and hold.

Even minor league baseball franchises are profitable for patient and tight-fisted investors. This is due to the structure of leagues and, of course, the ratio of risk to reward. North American sports are risk averse and control costs; a salary cap and CBA assure that wages remain low compared to revenue. The lack of promotion and relegation means that today’s TV deal is also tomorrow’s TV deal and one can reasonably predict future revenue. Also, the fungibility of franchises, a.k.a. "the threat of leaving town," means they hold the ultimate bargaining chip when dealing with local cities and counties in the stadium-building game.

From a business sense, the $200 million franchise fee in MLS is a bargain compared to other North American leagues. A few chummy real-life billionaires could get together, have a drink, let itroll in Vegas, get on a lucky streak and plunk down that kind of cash. Soccer is also a "growth" sport in the US as compared to most others. Lots of metrics show this. Thus, that low nine-figure franchise fee for the right location makes sense for an owner that is happy to sit around for a decade and wait for the next bigger TV contract and, as a cherry on top, squeeze out a publicly financed stadium in the meantime.

New MLS owners are also buying into more than just the league itself. The league’s media and marketing arm, Soccer United Marketing, was valued at $600 million back in 2011 when the league sold a 25 percent share in the company. No one knows how profitable SUM is, but considering the lengths commissioner (and SUM CEO) Don Garber goes to hide the answer from players and media during labor negotiations, the answer is something in the neighborhood of "a lot of money." MLS isn’t just MLS -- it’s an ad agency and event promotions company too. They’ve diversified their revenue streams.

Of course, naysayers look at the expansion fee and recall the old heyday of the NASL. Dearly departed David Wangerin wrote an excellent book, Soccer in a Football World, and he chronicled this era with factual research and wit. Historians can and often disagree, but many believe that the NASL collapsed because costs -- namely, recruiting and paying foreign stars -- greatly outpaced revenue from turnstiles, jersey sales, sponsorships and TV deals. The NASL relied on expansion fees to pay bills and keep the show going, and you can only grow so much.

Basically, where there’s a boom -- and economic fundamentals are glossed over -- there’s inevitably a bust. It’s worrying that a single franchise fee ($200 million) is more than double the annual TV deal ($90 million) for MLS. Yes, the league has come a long way since the contraction of Tampa Bay and Miami, but annual revenue is still only $400 million per year according to Forbes. That means the years when MLS gets paid a fee, revenue goes up by 50 percent.

That’s quite the payday. So what are the chances of the bust coming after it? At first glance, MLS has slowly and methodically expanded, so there’s no appearance of this being an unethical cash grab. Still, forgetting the fee money for a moment, expansion is itself a thorny subject; MLS has reached a crossroads in regards to "growth." The league could have looked towards Europe and South America as a model, but instead seems to have decided on emulating other North American leagues.

I say this based on the numbers. Currently, there are 20 teams in MLS and soon there will be 22. In most European leagues -- including the Premier League, La Liga and Serie A -- there are only 20 teams. European leagues also have pro/rel and a pretty decent second-tier of soccer as compared to the US. Conversely, most NBA D-League teams and AAA baseball franchises are really just feeder teams in small cities. MLS’s investment in USL has a similar structure.



MORE ON MLS EXPANSION

The collateral damage of expansion
Alicia Rodriguez

So here we are at 22, and MLS is not stopping anytime soon. Despite MLS’s vague remarks and intimations that "this round of expansion" may be the last -- a clever negotiating ploy -- Garber spends a good chunk of time flying to possible new city sites for teams. Presumably, he is not just crisscrossing the country to rack up frequent flyer miles. MLS is probably headed towards a number near 30. I say that because there are 30 NBA teams, 30 MLB teams and 30 NHL teams. More teams will help MLS negotiate a better national TV deal.

But because MLS currently operates with foreign player limits and a tight salary cap, there are reasonable concerns about the product on the field suffering with expansion. Controlling costs while providing opportunities for American and Canadian players are the league’s foundational principles, so changes in those two areas will be difficult. MLS will need to find creative solutions for upholding those principles while making sure the standard of soccer in the league continues to improve.

You can expect another decade of expansion from MLS, and maybe even higher expansion fees. The good news for fans of existing teams is MLS probably doesn’t need the expansion fees to pay its bills, unlike the old NASL, and more markets could lead to a bigger TV contract down the road. Still, the league can’t grow forever, and a saturation point lingers at some distant point on the horizon. When MLS reaches that point, franchise values should start going up, and the $200 million franchise fees that new owners pay now will start to make a lot more sense
 

Eila

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Not really, TFC should have won it last yr. Not a fan of that tournament as it starts pre season when most teams don't even have their squads filled. I'm a TFC fan, we didn't even have our best player ie Pozuelo signed for it this season, and possibly another big signing imminent.I'd say Liga MX is ahead in terms of quality overall but the gap wouldn't be much at all
Sorry, but the gap is still quite big. Specially when it comes to the quality of the domestic players. MLS goalkeeping/defending is not up to par with the attacking players they have managed to attract.
 

Loublaze

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Barco just scored a peach of a goal for Atlanta against Sporting KC right before he jets out for the FIFA U-20 WC. 2-0 and Five stripes back to winning ways
 

mazhar13

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Zlatan looks unhappy about not being able to dominate against MLS "minnows". If he thought that he'd get away with his usual crap performances in this league, he was totally wrong.

Also, TFC's recent run of performances are concerning me. Vanney's overcomplicating our attacking tactics and having us struggle to build up attacks. If he wants us to play with width and wingers, why didn't he force the issue with Curtis more? As a technical director, surely he has more influence in transfers than your average MLS head coach.
 

RedDevilCanuck

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Zlatan looks unhappy about not being able to dominate against MLS "minnows". If he thought that he'd get away with his usual crap performances in this league, he was totally wrong.

Also, TFC's recent run of performances are concerning me. Vanney's overcomplicating our attacking tactics and having us struggle to build up attacks. If he wants us to play with width and wingers, why didn't he force the issue with Curtis more? As a technical director, surely he has more influence in transfers than your average MLS head coach.
Missing Altidore badly.
 

mazhar13

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Missing Altidore badly.
Even with Altidore, we tend to struggle. DeLeon did offer us some width, but now, he comes inside too early, and we run out of options. Quite often, Auro dallies on the ball for too long (we saw this quite often last season as well), and Morrow's honestly gone downhill. He looks to be struggling to keep up with the pace of the game (though not as bad as Morgan). We badly need someone like Endoh in there who can offer us genuine width instead of stop-gaps like Osorio and Chapman.

Also, why didn't we try harder for a winger? Montreal were able to get Omar Browne, whilst he gave up after missing out on Menendez. Janson would've helped, too, but paying DP money for a player like him isn't worth it. Now we have a squad lacking in depth and relying on Chapman as the next wide player in the squad after DeLeon.

A horrible pre-season combined with a horrible transfer window (outside of Pozuelo) has resulted in a TFC side that will have to fight to make the playoffs.
 

poleglass red

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I can see Vanney being the fall guy here. He's not Manning's or Curtis's guy, maybe he follows Bez to Colombus. Atmosphere at the club isn't right. Few times Vanney has passed blame in terms of performance. It's obvious he needs additions yet GM saying he's happy with the squad. Looks like there are rumblings which is sad because I think a commanding centre half and a right sided attacker we can give anyone trouble.
 

Loublaze

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Atlanta United made another MLS record tonight on Frank De Boer's birthday: 5 straight wins without conceding with our 1-0 win away to Vancouver. Things are starting to look up for De Boer after a shaky start
 

Henrik Larsson

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Atlanta United made another MLS record tonight on Frank De Boer's birthday: 5 straight wins without conceding with our 1-0 win away to Vancouver. Things are starting to look up for De Boer after a shaky start
He won’t, he’s a shit coach
It's a mixed bag with him. He did a tremendous job at Ajax winning the league four times in a row without any budget and having a bunch of the most hopeless forward players I've ever seen, they beat teams like Barcelona, PSG, AC Milan, Manchester United, Manchester City in Europe as well in those years. Almost Ferguson-esque the way he had them performing consistently while selling his players every season and replacing them with 'Ashley Young/Tony V.' type of value signings.

When he was an assistent at the Dutch NT making the WC final in 2010 all the big players like Sneijder and RVP were praising him as a coach too. Guys like Eriksen, Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Blind always praise his coaching ability and mention how much they've learned from him.

Of course he made a complete fool of himself going to Inter without speaking Italian or having played in Italy, that dressing room ate him alive. Trying to implement the classic Ajax structure at Crystal Palace was also a ridiculous idea and he ruined all the credit he built and now people think he's absolutely shit.

Will be interesting to see how his Atlanta side will continue to perform.
 

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Not watched Atlanta the last month or so. Has he changed the style of play from the first few games? They were so slow and laboured.
 

Loublaze

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Not watched Atlanta the last month or so. Has he changed the style of play from the first few games? They were so slow and laboured.
We're back to the old Atlanta. The speed and intensity is back, and looking more defensively solid. Martinez is also scoring again for fun.
 

Loublaze

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At the Mercedez Benz right now watching Atlanta extinguish Chicago Fire. 2-0 at halftime, both goals from Josef Martinez.
 

mazhar13

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No option outside of Poz and Jozy. Midfield and defending average.
The real problem is that, instead of surrounding Pozuelo with runners and forwards, we're playing him as a forward. Vanney really doesn't know how to best use our players. He's trying to give Pozuelo freedom to play his game, but by doing so, he's limiting his options. It counteracts Pozuelo's strengths. Jozy's also being given freedom to play his game, but that's rendering him ineffective as he looks lost. I thought that Vanney knew what he was doing, but he now looks as clueless as he did a few years back.

He has ideas, but he's a poor coach; his implementation is horrible, and he never plays his players to their strengths. I'd rather we let him go and let Robin Fraser take over for him.
 

SportingCP96

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Brian Fernandes looks a real good striker. Good scouting done by Portland.
 

mazhar13

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In fear of getting lambasted in the Transfer Tweets thread:


I like this move. We get added depth out wide and in attacking midfield when we barely had any. This also indicates 2 things:
  1. Vanney's going all in for the MLS Cup. He'll be in trouble if he gets nowhere near.
  2. Osorio's consigned to the bench once again. Vanney will never be able to fit him into the starting lineup.
 

poleglass red

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In fear of getting lambasted in the Transfer Tweets thread:


I like this move. We get added depth out wide and in attacking midfield when we barely had any. This also indicates 2 things:
  1. Vanney's going all in for the MLS Cup. He'll be in trouble if he gets nowhere near.
  2. Osorio's consigned to the bench once again. Vanney will never be able to fit him into the starting lineup.
love this guys honesty, asked why he was moving to TFC, he said:

“To be frank, I did not have an enormous amount of opportunities aside from it in recent days."
 

YankManc

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I can't embed media yet but if you type in MLS All-Stars Skills Challenge, there's a fun 13-minute video of the competition that took place last night. Featuring Wayne Rooney, Nani and some of Atletico's best players (Koke, Joao Felix and Hector Herrera).

MLS All-Star Game (Stars vs Atletico) is tonight at 8pm ET (1am in Manchester).
 

RRCE

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A goal and assist for Joao Felix. It’s only the MLS all star game, but there’s something special about the kid. He’s a talent for sure. Smart move by Atletico. There’s obviously a risk given the fee involved, but they made a fortune on player sales this summer. Reinvesting by buying Felix was a clever move.
 

haram

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Why in the flying feck are the Portland Timbers and the Seattle Sounders both playing in green?
 

RedPed

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US Open Cup Final starting in 5 minutes between Atlanta United and Minnesota United.

Atlanta United lineup:


Minnesota United lineup:


Would love to have Josef Martinez as replacement for Lukaku. Tidy little striker.
 

RedPed

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Yeah :lol: still would have been something to watch for an hour and a half.
Yeah, was so looking forward to it as well. :( Suffice to say my 3 goal predictions will be done by HT. Didn't think it would be that easy for Atlanta?
 

RedPed

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Apologies if I'm not permitted to post this but just found the game on YouTube...

 

RedPed

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Pretty good game in the end with Atlanta having a player sent off but still ending up victorious 2-1. Martinez didn't find the net for the first time in 13 games. A few fireworks towards the end with the ref dishing out the yellows.