Far too sensible a move for us to make. Any club with our midfield would 100% sign him or Lavia. I’d be confident we aren’t even looking at any of them seriously.
Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea
- Thread starter davidmichael
- Start date
- Status
Yeah doesn't feel like we are
We as a fan base would do a better job than our recruitment department. So depressing. Casemiro was a decent signing but it fell into their laps and wasn’t proactive at all. I wish we’d realise that midfield should always be the priority. Look at Madrid.
Hey, anyone remember Morgan Schneiderlin?……. no?….. No one?
He was the one to get from Southampton. Not Mane or Van Dijk, but him.
Schneiderlin is incredibly forgettable, in fairness.
Not the quote I read, he chose Conte over Mourinho (what a choice)
regardless we’d be looking for his replacement now so it’s irrelevant anyway
Indeed. Be a nightmare to move on.
His United career was doomed when journos were reporting about Schweinsteigers surprise medical and didn’t notice Schneiderlin walking in 20 yards behind him.
His on field presence was no better
I chuckled on a bus I am at, kids watching me weird now.
Last season, after signing Eriksen and chasing FDJ, out of nowhere we signed Casemiro. I think we need to wait and see how this finally ends up. Let's say we bring in Mount and Rabiot, and all the other teams complete the transfers above. Then in the last week of the window we get a FDJ, Camavinga or Tchouameni, would we still be envious of Rice or MacAllister (even though I would be surprised if we bring in three midfielders in one window). ETH may have already agreed a number of midfield transfers, but is waiting on a striker so he knows his budget for midfield before pulling the trigger.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Not getting Camavinga/Tchouameni,not even mentioning the other because that sailed last summer. Hopefully the penny has finally now dropped with him
Not getting Camavinga/Tchouameni,not even mentioning the other because that sailed last summer. Hopefully the penny has finally now dropped with him
[/QUOTE]
I agree , for the life of me please see reality , you can't on one hand reject Gas money and expect the SJR & Double Glazing to land you Kane , Camavinga or Tchouameni not that the last 2 will leave Madrid but we are not shopping in the tier one basket and haven't been for a long time. Ten Hag works a few more years of magic, maybe just maybe we will be taken seriously again but we are not there at this time. Meanwhile the oil giants will be splashing cash. Time to accept it or your future as a fan is going to be an average experience. It's AA United sooner you accept we have a problem the better it is for everyone.
[/QUOTE]
I agree , for the life of me please see reality , you can't on one hand reject Gas money and expect the SJR & Double Glazing to land you Kane , Camavinga or Tchouameni not that the last 2 will leave Madrid but we are not shopping in the tier one basket and haven't been for a long time. Ten Hag works a few more years of magic, maybe just maybe we will be taken seriously again but we are not there at this time. Meanwhile the oil giants will be splashing cash. Time to accept it or your future as a fan is going to be an average experience. It's AA United sooner you accept we have a problem the better it is for everyone.
Not the sort of passer who can control the tempo of his side. That isnt in his game.
My point was that we may get a surprise name that no-one had really discussed.
It is.
It really isn't. If he could dictate the game ontop of being a defensive monster, every single team would be after him willing to pay £100m+ without hesitating.
I wonder if you’d think differently if he was Croatian or Italian with long beautiful hair. The stats and eye test don’t lie.
Show me these stats because fbref clearly proves you wrong.
As for the eye test, you probably need glasses
Show me these stats because fbref clearly proves you wrong.
As for the eye test, you probably need glasses
Yep, when it comes to passing fbref clearly proves me wrong, that pass completion % is an utter shambles for a 21 year old playing in the Premier League..
Haha, what a great autocorrect
Wait, so you think because he has a high passing completion rate, he can dictate the tempo of the game?
Yep, when it comes to passing fbref clearly proves me wrong, that pass completion % is an utter shambles for a 21 year old playing in the Premier League..
Those stats are very underwhelming for a supposedly game controller and passing maestro.
I suggest you take a look at Frenkie de Jong or Kroos' passing stats.
Caicedo, while he has a lot of other abilities and insane potential, is so far from these players when it comes to dictating the play, and not really his style as others have pointed out as well.
For the prices being bandied about i genuinely fail to understand why our links to mount seem to far more concretely than this kid, it's not as if he would be opposed to a move if it were to materialize, supposedly a United fan and we've already made it to the cl.
When he clearly excels at short, medium and long passing as shown by the pass completion %, it's fair to say he's very much a "passer" as well as a "destroyer". You can't say it really isn't in his game when he's a quality passer. De Jong and Kroos play for Barcelona and Real Madrid, in a league where 90% of the teams get dominated by the other 10% possessionally, of course their stats are ridiculous, to use that against Caicedo's ability is silly.
Are we looking at the same stats? You can't just look at the completion rate without looking at how often he actually attempts these passes. He very clearly doesn't excel at medium, and especially not long range passing.
Last year, Bissouma had similar passing stats, but it was never his game. It's how they play. Brighton have a clear structure and are very fluid and organised, making passing options a lot easier than it would playing for us.
And the reason Barcelona and Real Madrid dominate these teams in possession, is precisely because they have these players like De Jong and Kroos. Do you think Fred suddenly would have fantastic passing stats if he played for Real Madrid instead of Kroos?
Watch the analysis video. He isnt a jorginho/modric/busquetes/rodri/carrick etc. Controlling the tempo through recycling the ball isnt part of his game.
Unfortunately we aren’t in for him at all.
I remember. There was consensus that he was the defensive midfielder we needed. Me included.
I see someone that completes 93% of their long passing, to me, that means they excel at it, the amount of passes attempted could be system related too. He loves picking out the full backs to progress the ball forward, a potential instruction that cuts down the need for him to attempt long balls. I'm sure Fred's stats would improve in a team as well balanced as either, put De Jong or Kroos in utd's midfield and I'm sure their percentiles would drop marginally. I'm not saying he's a deep lying playmaker, I'm saying it's in his game to be one as he's statistically a great passer, he's also shown he handles possession under pressure well.
I've watched plenty of Caicedo this season, I'll rely on my own analysis over something that was filmed beforehand.
"Pythagoros in Boots" might just be the best player analysis channel on youtube. But you know better.
Ok then.
Dont give up your day job, you wouldnt last long as a football scout.
Passing completion is meaningless if you never attempt it. I've seen McTominay finish a game with 95% pass completion, but it doesn't make him a great passer, even if he occasionally hits a great long ball to one of our wingers.
He is a decent passer, but not anything he's known for. Thomas Partey has even better passing stats, but it's not really his game. Declan Rice is up there with Caicedo statistically too. Worse in some passing areas, better at others. Still, not their game.
Maybe it will be one day. He is only 21, so he can improve but as of right now, it's not and the analysis posted above will tell you the same.
I'm not disregarding the channel, it's analysis based on Potter's system and not Caicedo's role within Zerbi's system therefore it's relatively outdated. I'm sure all the leading scouts lean on season's old youtube analysis too.."Pythagoros in Boots" might just be the best player analysis channel on youtube. But you know better.
Ok then.
Dont give up your day job, you wouldnt last long as a football scout.
It means he was a great passer for that specific game, by definition. If McTominay finished the season with 95% pass completion, I'd say he's a great passer, the reality is though it's 82% so he isn't.
Strange way of looking at it, but fair enough.
In your eyes, he could play the safest of passes, and back to De Gea every time he had the ball, because high completion rate equals great passer.
It's annoying we are missing our on him but it's clear ETH Is looking for a more attacking minded midfielder than Caicedo.
No because that's not how football is played in midfield in the Premier League is it?
Who told you that?
Not wanting to interrupt your exchange but I guess you are talking about different things. One is talking about his capabilities in passing and the other about him as a controller or dictator of a match. Something we've seen Scholes do, Pirlo do, maybe Carrick too in a few games. If you control the rhythm of a football match, it isn't just that your passes are good. That is certainly necessary as well but it isn't the only thing. There is more to it, vision, tactical understanding, seeing how the spaces evolve. Difficult to measure stuff. Caicedo isn't known to be such a player (yet?). Could he be it? Maybe yes, maybe no. But currently he isn't such a player - maybe because of the way Brighton plays, maybe because other things.
I think, everybody agrees on him being a great player and could be of big use to us. Not like we would have some sort of controller right now, Eriksen might pop up with a pass here and there but he is too un-influential against the ball. Although, to be fair to Eriksen, our transitional style didn't really asked Pirlo-esque stuff from any of our players.
The debate has drifted a bit, it originated from me saying he excels at passing as well as "destroying", to the response is he really can't dictate tempo, my response to that is why not? A 21 year old showing great passing ability at the highest level indicates it is in his locker.
- Status