Moises Caicedo | Stays at Brighton

  • Based on the club's statement regarding Mason Greenwood, the site's current policy will continue until further clarity about the player's future is known.

    So to reiterate, all discussions about Mason Greenwood remain off limits.

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
112,003
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Happy to help mate! There is a lot of nonsense on social media, some half a grain of truth to it, like this. But contracts can be complicated and the reality doesn’t make for an interesting conversation!
Talk to us about his complicated ownership so we can put that one to rest
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
30,763
These figures are absolute fiction. They have no basis in reality.
They always are. Footballers contracts are private information, but it doesn’t stop everyone believing that websites like FBref and what that other screenshot was on the page before somehow have access to the numbers.

Edit: the only one I can think of is the Italian league is the only one where I believe the actual yearly salaries are posted for every player at every team in the Serie A
 

Davie Moyes

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
657
Location
Up North
They always are. Footballers contracts are private information, but it doesn’t stop everyone believing that websites like FBref and what that other screenshot was on the page before somehow have access to the numbers.

Edit: the only one I can think of is the Italian league is the only one where I believe the actual yearly salaries are posted for every player at every team in the Serie A
The one I struggle to believe is Sancho on £350k a week. Much higher than Bruno, Rashford, Martial etc. I would expect him to be in line with them. Makes no sense to be higher.
 

jeepers

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
557
Location
Singapore
Brighton fan here and someone with experience in contract law. These figures are absolute fiction. They have no basis in reality.

Caicedo and many other Premier League players/actors/sportspeople’s contracts include a “downside guarantee”. In practice, this is
minimum amount a player is guaranteed to earn across the length of their contract.

What the user on Twitter has done has taken the amount of the downside guarantee, divided it by the length of the contract, then divided that by 52 to come to a “weekly wage”.

The downside guarantee will often form a very small percentage of a player’s overall remuneration package. It is heavily supplemented by appearance fees, non-appearance fees, goal bonuses, assist bonuses, competition bonuses, loyalty bonuses and every other kind of bonus imaginable.

In Moises’ case, he is being paid mostly via a “loyalty bonus”, with it making up the majority of his overall pay packet, along with performance and appearance fees.

His actual wage is in the £45-£55k per week region, when the loyalty bonus is factored in. Closer to £60k-£70k per week when allowing for appearance, goal, assist and performance bonuses on top.

I hope this has been useful!
Thank you for this. Great insight into why we decided not to go for him.

However, if we want to compete for top SA talents, we will need to change our stance on this, no?
 

Marwood

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
2,596
Brighton fan here and someone with experience in contract law. These figures are absolute fiction. They have no basis in reality.

Caicedo and many other Premier League players/actors/sportspeople’s contracts include a “downside guarantee”. In practice, this is
minimum amount a player is guaranteed to earn across the length of their contract.

What the user on Twitter has done has taken the amount of the downside guarantee, divided it by the length of the contract, then divided that by 52 to come to a “weekly wage”.

The downside guarantee will often form a very small percentage of a player’s overall remuneration package. It is heavily supplemented by appearance fees, non-appearance fees, goal bonuses, assist bonuses, competition bonuses, loyalty bonuses and every other kind of bonus imaginable.

In Moises’ case, he is being paid mostly via a “loyalty bonus”, with it making up the majority of his overall pay packet, along with performance and appearance fees.

His actual wage is in the £45-£55k per week region, when the loyalty bonus is factored in. Closer to £60k-£70k per week when allowing for appearance, goal, assist and performance bonuses on top.

I hope this has been useful!
How do you know all this? I get you have some experience in contract law but how do you know the detail of Caicedo's salary and structure?

I'm not doubting your info, just always curious as to how fans have such insight at this level of detail.
 

UTAretro

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 7, 2022
Messages
27
Supports
Brighton
How do you know all this? I get you have some experience in contract law but how do you know the detail of Caicedo's salary and structure?

I'm not doubting your info, just always curious as to how fans have such insight at this level of detail.
Thank you for your reply. I certainly don’t know every detail. I have acquaintances who are fellow professionals in the field - when Caicedo signed I was curious about why this transfer was so tricky. I have had dealings more with the showbiz side of things, so I simply asked out of curiosity as a fan, knowing this person was in the field

Talk to us about his complicated ownership so we can put that one to rest
Here is a superb NY Times article detailing specifics - no paywall!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/sports/soccer/transfer-market-moises-caicedo.html

In short, three separate agencies - one in Germany, one in Argentina and one in Ecuador - all claimed to exclusively represent Caicedo. To reach a deal to transfer the player’s registration rights from his club Independiente, a buying club would have to go through hell and back negotiating with all of them. On top of that, the club also hires its only agents to sell their best assets for the best price.

The only reason Brighton got the deal done - and this is glossed over in the article - is that two years prior we had signed a young player named Billy Arce from the same club, who happens to be represented by the same agency (the very same agent) as Caicedo. It was this “in” that got the deal over the line.

Thank you for this. Great insight into why we decided not to go for him.

However, if we want to compete for top SA talents, we will need to change our stance on this, no?
South American ownership/agents are notoriously difficult to deal with. Many young players from poor backgrounds are “locked in” to very shady representation deals from a very young age, in return for immediate cash for them and their family. Players as young as 14 can be made to sign 50% representation deals in return for a few hundred quid.

Essentially it is a prime untapped market of talent, but it is extremely difficult to enter the marketplace.
 
  • Like
Reactions: golden_blunder

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
112,003
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Thank you for your reply. I certainly don’t know every detail. I have acquaintances who are fellow professionals in the field - when Caicedo signed I was curious about why this transfer was so tricky. I have had dealings more with the showbiz side of things, so I simply asked out of curiosity as a fan, knowing this person was in the field



Here is a superb NY Times article detailing specifics - no paywall!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/sports/soccer/transfer-market-moises-caicedo.html

In short, three separate agencies - one in Germany, one in Argentina and one in Ecuador - all claimed to exclusively represent Caicedo. To reach a deal to transfer the player’s registration rights from his club Independiente, a buying club would have to go through hell and back negotiating with all of them. On top of that, the club also hires its only agents to sell their best assets for the best price.

The only reason Brighton got the deal done - and this is glossed over in the article - is that two years prior we had signed a young player named Billy Arce from the same club, who happens to be represented by the same agency (the very same agent) as Caicedo. It was this “in” that got the deal over the line.



South American ownership/agents are notoriously difficult to deal with. Many young players from poor backgrounds are “locked in” to very shady representation deals from a very young age, in return for immediate cash for them and their family. Players as young as 14 can be made to sign 50% representation deals in return for a few hundred quid.

Essentially it is a prime untapped market of talent, but it is extremely difficult to enter the marketplace.
Excellent post, very informative
 

Lash

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
9,418
Location
London
Supports
Millwall, Saint-Etienne
Thank you for your reply. I certainly don’t know every detail. I have acquaintances who are fellow professionals in the field - when Caicedo signed I was curious about why this transfer was so tricky. I have had dealings more with the showbiz side of things, so I simply asked out of curiosity as a fan, knowing this person was in the field



Here is a superb NY Times article detailing specifics - no paywall!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/sports/soccer/transfer-market-moises-caicedo.html

In short, three separate agencies - one in Germany, one in Argentina and one in Ecuador - all claimed to exclusively represent Caicedo. To reach a deal to transfer the player’s registration rights from his club Independiente, a buying club would have to go through hell and back negotiating with all of them. On top of that, the club also hires its only agents to sell their best assets for the best price.

The only reason Brighton got the deal done - and this is glossed over in the article - is that two years prior we had signed a young player named Billy Arce from the same club, who happens to be represented by the same agency (the very same agent) as Caicedo. It was this “in” that got the deal over the line.



South American ownership/agents are notoriously difficult to deal with. Many young players from poor backgrounds are “locked in” to very shady representation deals from a very young age, in return for immediate cash for them and their family. Players as young as 14 can be made to sign 50% representation deals in return for a few hundred quid.

Essentially it is a prime untapped market of talent, but it is extremely difficult to enter the marketplace.
Really good and informative post, thank you for taking the effort to explain.
 

redcucumber

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2022
Messages
1,486
Would be a bit gutted about missing out on Caicedo. Every time I watch him he seems incredibly composed and self assured for a relatively young player that only recently started playing in the PL.
 

Dannn411

Full Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2022
Messages
624
Would be a bit gutted about missing out on Caicedo. Every time I watch him he seems incredibly composed and self assured for a relatively young player that only recently started playing in the PL.
He's the one player I would urge the club to try and secure right now if it came to that. PL-tested, super young, bundle of energy. Hopefully there's talent left for us to scoop up in the summer.
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
10,298
Seems a bit like when everyone was hyping up Bissouma a year ago and not saying anything right now to be honest
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
30,763
South American ownership/agents are notoriously difficult to deal with. Many young players from poor backgrounds are “locked in” to very shady representation deals from a very young age, in return for immediate cash for them and their family. Players as young as 14 can be made to sign 50% representation deals in return for a few hundred quid.

Essentially it is a prime untapped market of talent, but it is extremely difficult to enter the marketplace.
Yep. Which is why a bulk of them normally end up in Portugal and when it comes to buying them you’re paying 50%+ RRP because they’re “owned” by about 3 different clubs and a few other agencies
 

GaryLifo

Nice Bloke
Joined
Feb 26, 2001
Messages
9,618
Location
From here to there
No way he chooses Liverpool over United if we were to go for him. He's a United fan. Problem is, United aren't in any position to go for him, so if the vermin stump up then that's where he'll go.
 

Nero

Full Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
2,684
I don't understand why people continually believe every nonsense rumour. In fact it doesn't even have to be a rumour, just make a random post about a 'story circulating' and people will lose their shit.
 

Nero

Full Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
2,684
Wish people would stop losing their shit over any signing Liverpool may make.

The Liverpool links to Bellingham, Fernandez, and now Caicedo have all been met with the same hysteria.

What are people actually expecting here? Liverpool need to revamp their midfield, are people expecting them to bring in Mark Noble?
 

Lash

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
9,418
Location
London
Supports
Millwall, Saint-Etienne
Wish people would stop losing their shit over any signing Liverpool may make.

The Liverpool links to Bellingham, Fernandez, and now Caicedo have all been met with the same hysteria.

What are people actually expecting here? Liverpool need to revamp their midfield, are people expecting them to bring in Mark Noble?
Also, they were put off Caicedo by the multiple agents and could have signed him when brighton did, but now they're supposedly signing him, we're still the poorly run ones.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
33,586
We could probably do a One That Got Away XI and it'd challenge for top 4
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
9,125
Would've thought that Chelsea and Potter would be in for him seeing as they've bought most of Brightons recruitment structure but Liverpool signing him would be a proper gut punch
 

Threesus

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 13, 2020
Messages
661
Wait I thought FSG were trying to sell the club. Or are they investing all the pl and Cl winnings before they jump ship?
 

ShinjiNinja26

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
8,195
Location
Location, Location
Why is everyone losing their shit over every signing Liverpool make? Do they remember Darwin Nunez? Does everyone wish we still signed him over Liverpool? I guarantee Casemiro is a better signing than any midfield target they’re after and before anyone says he’s in his 30’s guess what? By the time it comes to replacing him we’ll be better placed to sign the next in line anyway because Liverpool will still have the likes of Caicedo on long term deals.
 

Primex

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 6, 2022
Messages
90
We could probably do a One That Got Away XI and it'd challenge for top 4
Alvarez Haaland Griezmann
kroos Caicedo Bellingham
Regullion Torres Dayot Trippier
Neuer
Subs:Gakpo,Sesko, Bale,Thiago
That's just the one's I can remember
 
X