I take it you feel exactly the same way about Matic, Fellaini, Lukaku etc who have all put in many poor performances and don't always show enough effort on the pitch? I watched Fellaini jogging back in the Southampton game when we were under pressure and it's not the first time. Same goes for Lukaku who often puts in lazy performances.
Mourinho at full time: "Pogba a virus. You don't play. You don't respect players/fans" [Castles]
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
Honestly I feel Jose's infatuation with Matic is
. He's more languid in body language than even Martial. I can't see how he's running through brick walls for JoseOf course, Yaya or Essien. Why because he can only be like black players? He doesn't have the footballing intelligence to be a Scholes or Modric because of his skin?
So easy to see the veiled racism.
I think Pogba is an outstanding player, and when he's on form he is brilliant and just the kind of player we need. Problem is he is often not on form and tries silly shite that he has no business trying to do, shite that puts our other players in bad places and causes us problems we don't need. Any player who does that should be called out on it, he doesn't get a pass just because he can be so good.
With SAF it was called the hairdryer treatment, and everyone thought it was a good thing if he went off on under performing players. Jose does it and all of a sudden he has no right to say that about a player, how dare he! I guarantee you SAF has done a lot worse, and would do the same now given the way Pogba played against Southampton, and he'd be applauded for it.
The double standards on here are a joke.
With SAF it was called the hairdryer treatment, and everyone thought it was a good thing if he went off on under performing players. Jose does it and all of a sudden he has no right to say that about a player, how dare he! I guarantee you SAF has done a lot worse, and would do the same now given the way Pogba played against Southampton, and he'd be applauded for it.
The double standards on here are a joke.
It’s always easy to see veiled racism if you always want to find it.
The players you mentioned have not been performing well enough.
However, I specifically talked about Pogba because of the alleged undermining of the manager, at a time when Jose and the club as a whole are struggling badly.
To be fair, Yaya Touré and Essien have absolutely nothing to do with each others.
This infatuation with comparing Jose to Fergie that his acolytes have is laughable, The 2 should never be compared. SaF could get away with many things due to the cache he had built up at the club and the fact that everything he did was always in the clubs best interest.
Jose has neither the built up cache nor is he deserving of the benefit of the doubt regarding having the clubs best interest at heart when he's thrown the club as an institution under the bus repeatedly in efforts to shield his own massive and fragile ego.
Get it out of your thick heads,the 2 are not in the slightest way alike nor will they ever be. It sullies Fergies great name being dragged down into the mud with that miserable cnut and any self proclaimed United fan should take offense to the 2 being compared.
Chelsea's greatest manager isn't anywhere near deserving of the unwavering support of United fans yet he somehow has achieved it with some despite diabolical football and massive underachievement. He's a masterful snake oil salesman
Jose has neither the built up cache nor is he deserving of the benefit of the doubt regarding having the clubs best interest at heart when he's thrown the club as an institution under the bus repeatedly in efforts to shield his own massive and fragile ego.
Get it out of your thick heads,the 2 are not in the slightest way alike nor will they ever be. It sullies Fergies great name being dragged down into the mud with that miserable cnut and any self proclaimed United fan should take offense to the 2 being compared.
Chelsea's greatest manager isn't anywhere near deserving of the unwavering support of United fans yet he somehow has achieved it with some despite diabolical football and massive underachievement. He's a masterful snake oil salesman
Every single manager we've had post 2013 has been compared to Fergie. In fact, the club even compared both Moyes and Mourinho to him.
You're right, they're not alike. Fergie was the best football manager ever. Then again, maybe Mourinho put a horse before the club once upon a time that we don't know about.
Who knows?
That's why I said it's racism. Yaya is sort of similar to Pogba but Essien was like a midfield energy guy who broke up play more like N'Golo Kante or Herrera. Not sure why he's being compared to Pogba other than the fact that he's black.
No that is not what I said at all. I have no idea how you got that from my post. The gist of my post is that Pogba needs someone in the team to tell him to fix up (only one or two, not the whole team), he is not a player that can impact all areas of the pitch. He is obviously more suited to attacking than defending and needs to be reminded to track back. Similar to a player like Ozil, who is sublime when it comes to attacking understanding but not when going back.
Comparisons to Yaya and Essien are completely off, he's just not someone that bosses games like that. He's a moments players and much more creative than these two players.
Agreed.
Main point being that Veron (a record signing) may not have worked as well as many wanted, but he wasn't as much of a disaster as many people believe
jury is still out on Pogba, but he doesn't seem to galvanize the team around him... Veron did play well with others
I never said Veron was a disaster...
Hazard was even worse in the last season Mou's at Chelsea, when Mou tried hard to get sack by being a twat the whole season. What do you think if the Chelsea board decided to have opinion like yours and sold Hazard? Do you think that's a good idea?
Look at his spine he goes too
Smalling Jones
Matic fellaini
Lukaku
Who’s he thrown under the bus the last year? Baily, Shaw, pogba, Fred, Perrera, Herrera, mata, martial, rashford all the more talented players that would benifit united
His go to guys Valencia, young, Jones, smalling, matic, fellaini, mctominay and lukaku - what do all these have in common? All either tall, slow, not very good on the ball, their big and most of them are old apart from two. We could bring in some of the best players in the world, that cancer core of players will always be the teams weakness because their his fave, and none of them are good at they do
I don't know why people throw Smalling's name there. He's been the best CB we have. Just like Mou likes to play DDG, where there's just no competition for his position.
As far as I know, Mou's been trying to dislodge Smalling many times, actually. He bought two new CBs,and tried new pairs at his first two seasons.
I've read some dumb posts on this forum but this @Xixak17 guy takes the prize. Calling every other person who criticizes Pogba a racist.
I see this has escalated a tad.
Juve and France have had quality around him and are very functional world class teams, with good players and systems. This time he is in a team without much quality and bad management. Do you honestly trust the board to hire the right guy and rectify whatever needs to be rectified in order for this club to be run competently?
What if he does it again under the new manager? At which point does he become part of the problem and not some kind of saviour who dares to speak up against the manager, like some think on here?
As Isotope said, Smalling doesn't deserve to be in that list. Mourinho has tried numerous times to create partnerships with our other options, but at the end of the day everybody else has simply failed and Smalling has outperformed them.
Everyone else you mentioned - yes.
To be fair, comparing him to Essien does somewhat look like that. A comparison with Yaya is fine, but Essien was nothing like Pogba.
Did you quote the wrong post?
I'm almost certain it's the style of play, rather than the quality of players, that doesn't suit Pogba.
Ultimately, Pogba has had this issue with one manager in his career. Even then, Pogba has had brilliant matches where he has dragged us through, including matches earlier this season which likely saved this managers career here. Meanwhile, Mourinho has had issues to some extent at most of his clubs he's been at, including almost identical things at his last two.
Not sure if the guy you were talking about has a history of doing it stupidly. I've only seen him pull the racism card twice, and both times he did it was for comments which were borderline. Such as somebody comparing Pogba with Essien.
If he does it a lot more at times where it obviously isn't racist, then fair enough.
Don’t think it’s racist to try and compare him with Yaya or Essien. Both were absolute units. Athletic and powerful runners who were top class with the ball. Pogba has more flair than either but Yaya was unbelievable.
Struggle to think of any white players who could play that way.
Struggle to think of any white players who could play that way.
Totally agree, if people in "normal" jobs acted like these so called professionals we/they would soon be sent packing.
That's your opinion. I don't think our squad is even close to City's. It is the style of play as well of course, but if the players aren't good enough, it won't work either way.
Mourinhos personality can create problems, but it's also what brought him all the success. The reason he got the United job despite the issues he's had at other clubs is because he is regarded as one of the best of all time. He is probably at the end of his career while Pogba still has his ahead of him. For all we know, this can continue to be a problem with Pogba, after all SAF already might have had a problem with him.
People are complaining that Mourinho is creating a circus, but Pogba is very much doing his own thing to contribute to that. He divides opinion as much as Mourinho does really. If I was in charge I would get rid of both and rebuild.
That second one maybe, but I'm pretty sure the first time was ridiculous and he was called out by plenty of people for it. I don't even remember what he was responding to tbh. The thread goes on so fast, I can't even find the posts.
Just to add, Pogba's complaint with regard to the movement (Or lack therof) is more than valid. I think people misunderstand his style or function in the midfield and therefore judge him by different parameters. Pogba isn't a 'controller', neither is he going to start barking orders and take command of the team; he's a dynamic creator that needs freedom to roam. You give him willing runners and he'll find them with solid variation - whether it's pinging a long ball over the top, through balls, quick one-twos or even an audacious flick that all of a sudden slices the opponent wide open - he's got it all in the locker. But he needs players around him that can take advantage of his skill set. It's not like for like, but take Ozil for example and compare his effectiveness at Real Madrid to Arsenal.
If you expected a one man team for 90 million, you're gonna be disappointed. But use him right and you're good to go.
If you expected a one man team for 90 million, you're gonna be disappointed. But use him right and you're good to go.
We knew what we got when we hired Mourinho. He was never gonna change his style. What's the point of Pogba doing that? Is that gonna change anything?
That depends on the job you're talking about. Pogba is not qualified to instruct Mourinho on tactics. Again, it's not Pogbas job to analyse wether Mourinho has a plan or how he's doing his job. It's Mourinhos superiors job.
What are you on about? Essien is like Herrera and Kante?
Energy guy? He had a shot that Herrera could only dream of. He could shoot, he could score with his head. He had very good long balls. He could carry the ball much like Pogba does. It's just that he wasn't a playmaker like Pogba.I'd wish Pogba was worthy of comparison to peak Essein or Yaya tbf. He's a few tiers below though.
The day United fans think we have the shirt end of the stick with Pogba instead of an Essien or Yaya Toure...I give up.
14 th on the ballon dor list begs to differ. And this is not his first appearance in around those positions either.
Here's the deal, in a professional environment, disagreements are going to happen. If a player has an issue with the coach, while some might see it as a bad thing, it's actually a good one. You try to find what is going wrong. This isn't an isolated incident with Mourinho and Pogba. Mourinho already screwed up once when he made such a big deal on Pogba's IG video thinking he had posted it after United lost when it was not the case, or giving him the armband and praising him then taking it away. Pogba, and the team as a whole, are people who need to have some kind of consistency to build chemistry. We all know Pogba is speaking the truth when he talks about Mourinho's tactics being terrible, and they just are. Even worse than that, the man cannot field a consistent XI, play players that actually play the position he puts them in, and stick with that to build some team and tactical chemistry. Players don't respect a leader who clearly doesn't have a vision for them, and everyday it becomes clearer that Mourinho simply has no clue on what to do.
It's very easy to criticize, but if you know anything about football, you know how difficult it is for a player in United right now to be able to come out with any kind of consistency when the tactics and line ups are changing all the time. If all the reports are true, Pogba was calm and simply responded with what EVERYBODY is thinking in their head, I'd say 95% of the fans and most definitely the entire team has to be thinking the exact same thing. And people can call Pogba a poor leader because of his display, but that exchange with Mourinho is the kind of leadership I like to see as well, and I'm 100% behind Pogba in that exchange. Mourinho has lost the plot, and I think some of the players don't want him to sink the ship anymore than he has.
The correlation with SAF is inappropriate because SAF had a clear direction. Mourinho can't make up his mind, and even with $400 million in transfers is incapable of upgrading this team where most of his signings are rotting on the bench. He deserves nothing else but the sack.
Same lot will be back to moaning about a lack of quality in MF as soon as he leaves
Our fans seem to think quality players grow on trees and are easily replacable.
The big difference between us and the true elite clubs in Europe is that they manage to keep their talents while adding even more quality around them. We have less than a handful of true quality talents yet some want them out the door and go right back to square one as soon as things get tough instead of building on what we have,such a winning mentality that...
It amazes me that people are still trying to paint Pogba as all flash and no substance even with a World Cup win to go with all of his other honours.
I'm not so sure he's suited to the league if i'm being honest. His game is far to casual to work in a premier league midfield. Even creative smaller players like scholes, modric or fabregas were much quicker in their movements and decision making than Pogba. Its not just him being a defensive liability, if it was, we could have simply solved his issues by shoving him further up the pitch. The problem is his touch, his awareness and his off the ball reactions are far too languid for the league. It's one this if you are a striker or winger, but in a premier league midfield, constant aggression and quick thinking is needed as the pace of the league is much quicker. Ince and Keane. Scholes and Keane. Essien Lampard and Makalele. Even city's midfield of silva debruyne and fernandinho are play with this quick decisiveness. The only relatively slow midfield to have won the league is city's 11/12 team of De Jong and Yaya. But Yaya at the time had and was willing to use the defensive capabilities he displayed at Barca and therefore provided a solid base for the attack.
We should go back to this. We already have 4 players in Herrera, Pereira,Fred and Matic that can play in midfield. What we also used to have was a true 4 man midfield of players working hard from flank to flank. Even Ronaldo used to do this at United. What the statistics show is that as a team, particular in the midfield, we do not make sprints or provide distance coverage. This needs to be addressed. We need players with the capacity to work hard for the team, and this should start with the sale of Pogba.
Kante is ahead of him in the Ballon D'or list 
And?Kante is ahead of him in the Ballon D'or list
- Status