Mourinho deserves credit tonight

[midnightmare]

This.

Who could have guessed we'd lack penetration and be unnecessarily lite up top playing McTominay and Matic at the base? He then fixed it and we looked loads better.

But he only had to fix it and come from behind because the starting formation and personnel was broken. And that's on him.

Or on the millions that screamed at him to "free Pogba" by adding McTominay (sacrificing Lingard in the process) to offer Pogba the 4-3-3 that he was apparently upset we didn't play. Not sure if Jose is "proving a point" here, but this is taking away the haters' argument that the formation is the issue and that Pogba would thrive in a 4-3-3 with "more freedom". Look at the Pogba performances thread for more details...

Feel Jose has rolled the dice and tried the formation most likely to cover Pogba's obvious deficiencies. It didn't work and he got the changes spot on. Not sure where it goes from here, to be honest, but he's shown this time (and the last game) that he's still on the ball and will do what it takes to get us back to the top.

 

[sglowrider]

Remember the dire days when LVG would make his subs and the performance actually got worse!

 

[stu_1992]

Really happen with how he just went for it in the second half. As a game it reminded me a lot of Sir Alex's last season. Not a great performance (shocking disjointed passing in particular) and losing into the second half only to come back and win. I'm glad he had the balls to risk it all for the win. Never would have happened under Moyes or Van Gaal.

 

[Adisa]

Deserves credit for the changes, but wish we'd start a game on the front foot for once. We keep waiting for something to happen.

 

[IAN HEALY]

Jose - man of the match!

 

[VanGaalEra]

Reminded me of the Mourinho at Chelsea. Not scared to go gung ho and make changes when the team is behind.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Interesting. United's never say die mentality help improve his record.

You could argue that Moyes and LVG removed that mentality though. So full credit to Mourinho for that.

 

[The Brown Bull]

I have been told that last night was the first time a Mourinho team has come from 2 down to win?
Surely this can’t be true?
Anyone know.

 

[Globule]

He's really been getting it right with substitutions. I think we've scored the most goals from the bench this season, 6 more and we'll break the PL record.

And only one more required to equal our record in the PL.

 

[Nick7]

No, he's responsible for the first half as well

Surprisingly a football match is made up of two halves. I know this must be shocking information, but I thought I'd let you know.

 

[lysglimt]

As long as we play like we did for the first 55 minutes, he deserves criticism. But as long as he manages to turn it around with good subs - he deserves praise. But the game against Liverpool will probably determine a lot of my view on Mourinho.

 

[tenpoless]

Remember the dire days when LVG would make his subs and the performance actually got worse!

Or when M̶o̶y̶e̶s̶ Mr. Bean would shout at the players to cross more into the box till it works but it never actually worked and made the supporters' eyes bleed.

Credit where it's due, coming back from a 2-0 down is not an easy task.

 

[esmufc07]

I have been told that last night was the first time a Mourinho team has come from 2 down to win?
Surely this can’t be true?
Anyone know.

I read it was the first time since 2006.

I don't imagine Mourinho has been 2-0 down that often though.

 

[buckooo1978]

one positive to take from the subs is that he's perhaps recognized our full backs are a weakness of the team

 

[TheReligion]

A man who's received far more stick than he deserves over the last few months.

Thought all his substitutions were spot on. Obviously the second goal perhaps forced him to take a bigger risk than he'd have liked, but he couldn't have altered the game any better.

There were people in the matchday thread saying he should be sacked at 2-0

 

[Web of Bissaka]

There were people in the matchday thread saying he should be sacked at 2-0

Food for the Mourinho haters, and some posters are just trolling.

 

[backtowhiteside]

Be greatful? He had enough meltdowns in his career. He has spent tons of money while managing one of the biggest clubs in the world. In fact, I am sure it is Jose who is greatful for being allowed to manage us, and he is yet to win a major to prove that he is still one of the best managers out there.

So coming in and winning the Europa league is a walk in the park for you? For me Jose actually looks greatful for being here. I still think the real problem started back when Fergie left and Moyes took over. He may be a really good manager I don't know and I don't care, but we needed to rebuild this team after the Scholes and Giggs era and Moyes could never attract the kind of players we needed. Fergie started the process with Cleverley,Smalling,Jones,Young etc but none of them turned out to be world class,only De Gea is. I still think Mata is world class to have in the squad and in a way we can thank Jose for getting him. Then LVG came in and we can thank him for the FA cup title and Martial being here.
Don't get me wrong now, we have very good players in the team but to compete with the likes of Real Madrid, Barca and now even feckin ManCity&PSG with their feckin oil money we need world class. I would say De Gea,Pogba,Sanchez,Martial,Bailly,Mata,Rashford are world class but we need more. I don't want to see the likes of for an example Young anymore. I want Jose to spend some more money for us,I still trust him. He´s already won us trophies and at the moment we're competing for two and we are second in the league.

 

[Nickosaur]

As long as we play like we did for the first 55 minutes, he deserves criticism. But as long as he manages to turn it around with good subs - he deserves praise. But the game against Liverpool will probably determine a lot of my view on Mourinho.

Mirrors my thoughts also. He got decisions right and made them early in the second half.

But if we have a first half like that against Liverpool, who liked to start at high tempo and go gung ho - we won't be able to get back into the game.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

When did this happen?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Varun]

That's superb

 

[Shipperley]

Jose made the right changes fair play, but on the flipside I felt sorry for Roy with the state of our bench...with our injuries we just don't have any options to change things whatsoever. I thought Roy should have brought Sorloth off for Riedewald when we were 2-1 up but other than that when he turns round and see the likes of Chung Yong Lee, Jaroslaw Jach and Erdal Rakip it's a tough gig. We need our injured players back ASAP and even with Zaha on the pitch to counter you at 2-0 I think it's a different result, but that's life.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Jose made the right changes fair play, but on the flipside I felt sorry for Roy with the state of our bench...with our injuries we just don't have any options to change things whatsoever. I thought Roy should have brought Sorloth off for Riedewald when we were 2-1 up but other than that when he turns round and see the likes of Chung Yong Lee, Jaroslaw Jach and Erdal Rakip it's a tough gig. We need our injured players back ASAP and even with Zaha on the pitch to counter you at 2-0 I think it's a different result, but that's life.

Roy was extremely frustrated at the final whistle understandably.

Tbf, he did extremely well, have his players ready and have a real go at us, right tactics too first half. The goals are deserved I suppose for the efforts.

All the best winning the relegation battles and stay at EPL, and loan again our academy players next season.

 

[Mozza]

Surprisingly a football match is made up of two halves. I know this must be shocking information, but I thought I'd let you know.

Except he had a long time to think about that first half and thought that was the best way to win the game. The second half was not him, it was desperation

 

[cletus7]

What do you think a defensive coach can contribute: with 3 MF and you still lose possession / 2nd ball in MF? Smalling to sleep on the job?

I agree with you. I meant to say that Mourinho doesn’t seem to have a handle on sorting out the team’s play. Instead, he just keeps harping on about defensive mistakes as if his job was a defensive coach rather than a talisman for a team with a tradition for entertaining football. The midfield area was choked out yesterday and that’s when quality in possession and teamwork is called upon... and it’s just not there.

 

[Nick7]

Except he had a long time to think about that first half and thought that was the best way to win the game. The second half was not him, it was desperation

Christ

 

[cletus7]

Or on the millions that screamed at him to "free Pogba" by adding McTominay (sacrificing Lingard in the process) to offer Pogba the 4-3-3 that he was apparently upset we didn't play. Not sure if Jose is "proving a point" here, but this is taking away the haters' argument that the formation is the issue and that Pogba would thrive in a 4-3-3 with "more freedom". Look at the Pogba performances thread for more details...

Feel Jose has rolled the dice and tried the formation most likely to cover Pogba's obvious deficiencies. It didn't work and he got the changes spot on. Not sure where it goes from here, to be honest, but he's shown this time (and the last game) that he's still on the ball and will do what it takes to get us back to the top.

Pogba is definitely better in a freer role on the left of a 4-3-3. It doesn’t help for Sanchez to float back and squeeze his operating space effectively trying to out-Pogba Pogba. Like all players with vision and control, the teamwork needs to be good to get the best out of him otherwise no making of angles, no runners no spaces.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This.

Who could have guessed we'd lack penetration and be unnecessarily lite up top playing McTominay and Matic at the base? He then fixed it and we looked loads better.

But he only had to fix it and come from behind because the starting formation and personnel was broken. And that's on him.

He “fixed it” by reverting to a formation that 90% on here (including you iirc?) said was to blame for Pogba’s worst performances. That same 90% have been fecking constantly calling for us to set up the way we did in the first half last night.

The only possible reasonable criticism of our tactics in recent weeks has been Mourinho apparently reacting to pressure from fans/media to go switch to 433 instead of having the courage of his convictions and keep on playing Pogba in a midfield two. I'm not all that keen on the possibility that we have a manager who would pick a team to prove a point but, whatever, the point has been proven. Paul Pogba is just as capable of playing shite in a three as he is in a two. And when he plays in a two we can pick another specialist attacking player, which makes us a better team going forwards. As we saw in the second half.

 

[Greek9]

Except he had a long time to think about that first half and thought that was the best way to win the game. The second half was not him, it was desperation

Would you agree that Fergie was desperate in all of his comebacks? ...

What you said doesn't make sense, he changed his tactics cause he had to sure, but the fact that he had to do it shouldn't neglect the fact that he was successful in it, lots of coaches have been in his position in the past and in their 'desperation' failed miserably to turn things arround so there is that.

 

[Jim Beam]

He deserves credit for the subs, but even more for going gung-ho in the last 15 minutes. Thought he would settle for a draw after Lukaku goal. It's amazing what a little bit more urgency can do to your play.

 

[Oldyella]

He made exactly the right changes it seemed. I do worry that we were so poor across the team and it wasn't one or two just out of nick. Players looked like they had never met each other.
He really needs to get Sanchez up to speed, he's come in and just seems to have unbalanced us so far.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Except he had a long time to think about that first half and thought that was the best way to win the game. The second half was not him, it was desperation

*Inserts laughing emoji*

 

[midnightmare]

Pogba is definitely better in a freer role on the left of a 4-3-3. It doesn’t help for Sanchez to float back and squeeze his operating space effectively trying to out-Pogba Pogba. Like all players with vision and control, the teamwork needs to be good to get the best out of him otherwise no making of angles, no runners no spaces.

So...is the answer to not have a player ahead of him? Alexis dropped deep because (at least partly) Pogba was contributing the sum total of bugger-all. On what evidence are we saying that Pogba works better in that role which is freer etc? Is it because of when he was playing in a really slow Italian league alongside behemoths in the Juve midfield? Because if so, maybe it’s time to reconsider given, you know, his actual performances.

 

[Mozza]

Would you agree that Fergie was desperate in all of his comebacks? ...

What you said doesn't make sense, he changed his tactics cause he had to sure, but the fact that he had to do it shouldn't neglect the fact that he was successful in it, lots of coaches have been in his position in the past and in their 'desperation' failed miserably to turn things arround so there is that.

No, his personal sometimes let him down but it was rarely due to tactics that United would find themselves behind under Fergie. 442 every week

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Or on the millions that screamed at him to "free Pogba" by adding McTominay (sacrificing Lingard in the process) to offer Pogba the 4-3-3 that he was apparently upset we didn't play. Not sure if Jose is "proving a point" here, but this is taking away the haters' argument that the formation is the issue and that Pogba would thrive in a 4-3-3 with "more freedom". Look at the Pogba performances thread for more details...

Feel Jose has rolled the dice and tried the formation most likely to cover Pogba's obvious deficiencies. It didn't work and he got the changes spot on. Not sure where it goes from here, to be honest, but he's shown this time (and the last game) that he's still on the ball and will do what it takes to get us back to the top.

So...is the answer to not have a player ahead of him? Alexis dropped deep because (at least partly) Pogba was contributing the sum total of bugger-all. On what evidence are we saying that Pogba works better in that role which is freer etc? Is it because of when he was playing in a really slow Italian league alongside behemoths in the Juve midfield? Because if so, maybe it’s time to reconsider given, you know, his actual performances.

It's not just him though is it? Long term, the RB and the CB positions aren't as mobile as they need to be. Hopefully Shaw will make the LB position his own and we have a player who can operate on the right.

I agree Pogba needs to dominate more but at times there are feck all options for him. As for Sanchez; I don't agree he was dropping deep because of Pogba. You have to credit Palace for playing well for 70 minutes and pushing him deeper. No one ordered him to pass to the opposition or play 40 yard one-twos.

 

[cletus7]

So...is the answer to not have a player ahead of him? Alexis dropped deep because (at least partly) Pogba was contributing the sum total of bugger-all. On what evidence are we saying that Pogba works better in that role which is freer etc? Is it because of when he was playing in a really slow Italian league alongside behemoths in the Juve midfield? Because if so, maybe it’s time to reconsider given, you know, his actual performances.

Here’s some statistical evidence if you’re into that sort of thing; http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ilemma-for-jose-mourinho-at-manchester-united
Very easy to see from my perspective. Reference game would be away to Everton. I don’t agree that Alexis dropped deep for the reasons you say. I think his ego and enormous salary are more to do with it. Seems to be oblivious to the team’s needs from what I’ve seen; just wants to feel good about himself.

 

[el3mel]

Except he had a long time to think about that first half and thought that was the best way to win the game. The second half was not him, it was desperation

Doomed if he loses, doomed if he wins.

 

[sunama]

He'll get credit. What's the problem?

The problem is that he doesn't get credit. Neither do our players.
We are 2nd place in the league (highest since SAF left), still in the CL and FA Cup.
And the reward for all this: fans saying "Jose out!" and sell half the team.

Here's a good example:

Except he had a long time to think about that first half and thought that was the best way to win the game. The second half was not him, it was desperation

...and there are plenty more of these types of comments.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

He “fixed it” by reverting to a formation that 90% on here (including you iirc?) said was to blame for Pogba’s worst performances. That same 90% have been fecking constantly calling for us to set up the way we did in the first half last night.

The only possible reasonable criticism of our tactics in recent weeks has been Mourinho apparently reacting to pressure from fans/media to go switch to 433 instead of having the courage of his convictions and keep on playing Pogba in a midfield two. I'm not all that keen on the possibility that we have a manager who would pick a team to prove a point but, whatever, the point has been proven. Paul Pogba is just as capable of playing shite in a three as he is in a two. And when he plays in a two we can pick another specialist attacking player, which makes us a better team going forwards. As we saw in the second half.

Great post.

I hate a agreeing with the media, but 'fixing Pogba' is his biggest job right now. Hopefully he handles it as well as his 'phase out Rooney' plan which he handled masterfullly

 

[haram]

Except he had a long time to think about that first half and thought that was the best way to win the game. The second half was not him, it was desperation

So he had time to think about it and changed the formation and players, but the second half was not him?

Even you dont believe the bollocks you’re talking.

 

[JK-27]

Here’s some statistical evidence if you’re into that sort of thing; http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ilemma-for-jose-mourinho-at-manchester-united
Very easy to see from my perspective. Reference game would be away to Everton. I don’t agree that Alexis dropped deep for the reasons you say. I think his ego and enormous salary are more to do with it. Seems to be oblivious to the team’s needs from what I’ve seen; just wants to feel good about himself.

You can use statistics to tell a story you want to tell but you can read it a thousand different ways. For example, they say he's dropped his performances since one of his best games in a 4-3-3-, and the game they quote is from last year, with a side that had Rooney & Zlatan in. Well, Rooney has left and Zlatan isn't playing, so it's not a fair reference. They say one of his best games this season was against Chelsea, and Sanchez was in that side. The formation they use may have Sanchez as on the right that game, but the reality is Sanchez & Martial were switching sides throughout that game, so the idea that Sanchez has to be on the right side and Pogba on the left is a fallacy. In a football match, you move around and are fluid based on what is going on.

I was at the game last night and Lukaku, Sanchez, and Lingard were having a go at Pogba on several occassions for making bad decisions/passes. That's got nothing to do with positioning. It was general bad play on Pogbas part. I thought it was great to see Sanchez and Lukaku directing the team and urging us on to the win. Pogba wasn't doing that.