I think this is a very good and fair assessment - totally agree.
Moving Forward as a Club with David Moyes (Because the Board are Not Going to Sack Him)
- Thread starter TheGame
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You're right. What this place really needs is a more earnest attitude.
The first thing I'd want is for us to finally decide what formation the club wants to use for the future. Are we going to stick with the traditional United 4-4-2, or are we going to move away from all that and go with the 4-2-3-1?
The answer to that will reflect which players we want to sign. The massive use of wing play this season seem to edge us towards 4-4-2, while the Mata signing and recent formations seem to push us towards 4-2-3-1.
We could quite easily copy City's formation and personnel by going with Fellaini-Carvalho vs Toure-Fernandinho, and then Kagawa-Mata-Rooney(?) vs Nasri-Silva-Navas, with Rooney/RVP vs Aguero.
Our midfield would be solid and robust, and it has plenty of motility.
So, giving Moyes the funds to make this team his is our only option if we decide to stick with him, which I think will happen. As long as he goes for realistic and respectable targets like Mata, then we can't really bring up the argument of "Why should we trust this guy with our money?!?!?!?". If he signs, for example, Osman (he won't but whatever), then I can understand that argument.
We need a massive shake-up this Summer, and I'm confident Moyes will do it well. No idea why, I just think he now realises how big this job is and what work needs to be done. I was expecting a "settle-in season", admittedly I didn't anticipate it to be this bad.
The answer to that will reflect which players we want to sign. The massive use of wing play this season seem to edge us towards 4-4-2, while the Mata signing and recent formations seem to push us towards 4-2-3-1.
We could quite easily copy City's formation and personnel by going with Fellaini-Carvalho vs Toure-Fernandinho, and then Kagawa-Mata-Rooney(?) vs Nasri-Silva-Navas, with Rooney/RVP vs Aguero.
Our midfield would be solid and robust, and it has plenty of motility.
So, giving Moyes the funds to make this team his is our only option if we decide to stick with him, which I think will happen. As long as he goes for realistic and respectable targets like Mata, then we can't really bring up the argument of "Why should we trust this guy with our money?!?!?!?". If he signs, for example, Osman (he won't but whatever), then I can understand that argument.
We need a massive shake-up this Summer, and I'm confident Moyes will do it well. No idea why, I just think he now realises how big this job is and what work needs to be done. I was expecting a "settle-in season", admittedly I didn't anticipate it to be this bad.
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Where are we moving forward to? Moving to being the butt of Scouse jokes? Great. Wonderful. Thanks Moyesy.
If David Moyes was managing Liverpool every single one of us would be laughing and hoping he gets a lifetime contract. Just because Fergie picked him people have blind faith in him here, it's nonsensical.
Moving forward with Moyes? there is no forward with him, only backwards. He's a joke.
This is how I've looked at the situation for some time. I never let myself get too caught up in the wanting Moyes Out as I've always felt that he won't be sacked by the board for some time. They've committed to him, they'll want to see it work and they'll give him more than a season to try and be proven right.
As for how we move forward, well it looks like money is on the way and we'll need it. He seems to have an idea in his head about how he wants us to play, we just haven't seen it on the pitch yet really and I'm not sure why. Seems like he wants to bring in his own players to allow that style to develop, and he has to get that right this summer. He has surely had enough time now to decide on what he needs. Anybody who isn't totally bought in to him being manager is probably better being moved out too.
As for coaching, I wouldn't be against seeing a bit of a shake-up in that regard. An experienced coach that can bring new ideas an challenge Moyes would be be ideal.
As for how we move forward, well it looks like money is on the way and we'll need it. He seems to have an idea in his head about how he wants us to play, we just haven't seen it on the pitch yet really and I'm not sure why. Seems like he wants to bring in his own players to allow that style to develop, and he has to get that right this summer. He has surely had enough time now to decide on what he needs. Anybody who isn't totally bought in to him being manager is probably better being moved out too.
As for coaching, I wouldn't be against seeing a bit of a shake-up in that regard. An experienced coach that can bring new ideas an challenge Moyes would be be ideal.
I doubt any fan at this time has blind faith in him, quite the opposite. But a lot of us are realistic enough to see that our board won't fire him before he has had 2-4 seasons at the club.
So I feel it's a legitimate question to ask where we are going with him and what needs to change in the coming season and beyond.
We need some steel in the team, leaders on the pitch, a Cantona, a Robson or Whiteside. Promoting from within has always been the way so that is what we should be doing, buy in the experienced leaders and hard man and let the youth grow around them.
I don't see any progress under Moyes. He's lost the plot.
First of all (out of many questions that won't get answered), why does he keep picking Ashley Young? He offers nothing in most of the matches we play. All we see is him looking at the ground and cross and falling on his own.
First of all (out of many questions that won't get answered), why does he keep picking Ashley Young? He offers nothing in most of the matches we play. All we see is him looking at the ground and cross and falling on his own.
Get new backroom staff for Moyes. Make sure he is not the one doing the tactics as he seems awful at them. Get the best players we can buy to offset the manager we have at the helm and then cross all toes and fingers and make a pact with the devil to give up your soul to ensure that we finish in the top 4 next season.
Even then I cannot guarantee it will work out
Even then I cannot guarantee it will work out
It was in reference to the scouting.I don't see where he says the youth set up isn't good enough?
I hope he uses FM for scouting... we can get some random mexicans
I thought you were asking for both.
we were the butt of their jokes even when they didn't win anything... which is still now i guess
anyway, carefully chosen is a bit rich... really they threw money on a conveyor belt of managers until something stuck - bizarrely the one who's not been spending a ton
Why would we even keep him as a manager then? We need someone who knows how to manage champions and improve them. Moyes does not have those qualities it seems.Get new backroom staff for Moyes. Make sure he is not the one doing the tactics as he seems awful at them. Get the best players we can buy to offset the manager we have at the helm and then cross all toes and fingers and make a pact with the devil to give up your soul to ensure that we finish in the top 4 next season.
Even then I cannot guarantee it will work out
I still fear the ceiling isn't too high with Moyes, if he was to eventually get it right. Does anyone actually believe we can win titles under him? At best, for me, he'll have us competing for the fourth place trophy with Wenger.
Well the question in the OP was based on the premise that Moyes will be here next season.
There is no remotely feasible strategy that can lead to success under David Moyes. It is impossible to move forward. He is simply incapable of managing at this level. The only way would be to sign the entire Bayern Munich side, then shoot every other footballer on the planet.
I'd fancy us but still wouldn't be 100% confident in that scenario.
Complete the bolded part without the latter and I still think he'd struggle to make 4th, throw in Messi & Ronaldo and he still wouldn't win the title.
It would be like: LEo & Cristiano, I want you two to stay out wide and try to get to the byline and put crosses in.
This place sometimes.
He would play Robben on the left so he could cross with his strong foot.
Aye, which means the best idea is to have him as manager but with very little duties.
Just move it sideways and cross it.
Messi on the left and Ronaldo on the right putting crosses in for Gotze to head.I've completely given up hope on him getting canned so my only hope now is that he buys some fantastic players of the Mata ilk in the Summer because he'll need them. I don't believe for one second that he can coach a team to be better than the sum of their parts and that worries me in the long run, if he buys a 4-5 genuinely World Class players who are at their peak in defence and midfield then hell, he may just do alright with them.
For Moyes to improve drastically on this season I believe he'll need a World class winger, 2 World class central midfielders and a World Class central defender, maybe even a World Class left back. Sadly I think a Galatico era at Manchester United is the only thing that can make us successful with Moyes at the helm.
If for example Klopp was to take over I'd say he'd need 3 players, not necessarily World Class but with potential. Replacing Moyes with a proven top class manager would probably be the cheaper option in the long term but it aint gonna happen.
One thing the club should force on Moyes though is a top drawer assistant/coach in the Summer.
For Moyes to improve drastically on this season I believe he'll need a World class winger, 2 World class central midfielders and a World Class central defender, maybe even a World Class left back. Sadly I think a Galatico era at Manchester United is the only thing that can make us successful with Moyes at the helm.
If for example Klopp was to take over I'd say he'd need 3 players, not necessarily World Class but with potential. Replacing Moyes with a proven top class manager would probably be the cheaper option in the long term but it aint gonna happen.
One thing the club should force on Moyes though is a top drawer assistant/coach in the Summer.
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Moyes with 200m or Klopp with no money. I'd prefer the latter.
can you PLEASE read the OP and try to keep the conversation constructive, this thread doesn't need to denigrate into pointless whining and jokes like every other thread. If you don't think so then simply don't post in this thread because nobody who contributes in this thread cares what you think
Multiple posters on this page would appear to disagree.
the point of this thread is how to move forward if moyes stays, its useful since there is at least a decent chance he is staying. the thread is necessary because every other thread, contributions are so cluttered up with one sentence things that have been said not exaggerating over 10,000 times in the forums this season. don't post in this thread if you don't have an opinion on how the club can move forwards if moyes stays would be a decent rule of thumb
Ok, answering the question.
If the board insists on giving Moyes more time, they should not back him in the market (let him sell RVP and Kagawa) and spend the incoming fees. So when he inevitably fails and gets sacked eventually, the new manager will have sizeable warchest to bring in players he wants.
If he stays, I would prefer if the club worked out a way to systematically minimise his role in everything. Replace his Preston/Everton coaches, let someone else do the press conferences, let someone else do all the team talks.
Just pay him millions a year to turn up at the game and look gormless.
Just pay him millions a year to turn up at the game and look gormless.
I'd actually think about sacrificing players AND no money if we could get rid of Moyes and get Klopp in. But then I do really hate the man passionately.
Fair enough and I sort of agree with @Cal?
The best way United can "move forward" with Moyes is by allowing him to complete a clearout that needs doing regardless. Imo this includes Valencia, Young, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Cleverley and Anderson. He should be backed in any transfers where the quality of said player is obvious, ie if he wants to spend big on Toni Kroos then by all means.
We should not allow him to sell quality players that Moyes' shortcomings prohibit him from using, ie Kagawa, RVP and Nani.
We should not allow him to sign players we don't need, ie Seamus Coleman, simply because he doesn't recognize Rafael's ability.
The overriding doctrine should be how to best set the club up for Moyes' successor, whenever that point is reached.
The reason for this doctrine is that moving forward with Moyes, as I said in my original post, is impossible. Thus our strategy should be to put the club in the best possible position for Moyes' successor to hit the ground running.
That's a pretty good idea, let Giggsy do everything and ask Moyes to just sit in his office everyday and play FM and just turn up to the matches to sign autographs.
Really, anything to get him out of the club.
I've a feeling all this love for nani is going to disappear after he plays again and his first 10 corners fail to beat the first man
I don't mean to be the sheriff or anything I just was enjoying the constructive discussion in this thread, guess its too much to ask for to have one constructive thread on the front page
I tried very hard to answer the question on the assumption gets another season.
and you replied moyes should be in charge of transfers for his successor, which the thread assumes he will not have, unless he tries to buy seamus coleman in which case malcolm glazer will have the good sense to step in and say 'no, rafael is perfect even if he is fit only every 4th game'
Nani was one of the most productive players in the league for a couple of years. He's a tricky winger with an eye for goal bursting with flair and possessing above average pace. In an attack that lacks speed, he and Welbeck can both be at the least useful squad players.
I said no such thing, I said he shouldn't get too much to spend so that when he does get sacked, the replacement will have money to spend.
I even said let him sell RVP and Kagawa to generate funds if he wanted.
Think you've got mine and Cal's posts mixed up.
Rafael has made a combined 67 apps over the past two seasons. He certainly does have fitness issues, but we also as a club seem to assume Evra like levels of injury resistance are the norm, which they simply aren't. We need cover for Rafael, but Coleman is far too good to be a backup (and would be a rather expensive one also).