Third certainly wouldn't be a "great" season, we have a far better squad than Chelsea.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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However it's utilising that squad to it's maximum that DM has to learn
The problem for me, and I know he's not at Everton anymore, is that, did in his previous job ever have a player like Kagawa? Did he ever trust an incisive playmaker? I for can't recall it. Utd have tended to have that in their most successful periods. He'll have to wise up that Utd's style demands it
What amazing reactions. The urgent hyperbole is abit nuts. What did people expect after an historically unprecedented change in leadership at a football club, where the role of manager is so critical?
We lost, badly, like we have done many times before. Its OK. It happens. And a defeat of this manner is more reflective of the players than the manager.
I don't expect trophies this year. What I do expect is that by next summer, Moyes knows our club culture and its methods, and most importantly how each squad players reacts under his command. Those that work for him he keeps, and then he sinks 100m+ into the transfer market for the players he needs to perform his vision.
Im more than fine with Moyes progress. And I'll only comment on his suitability for this job some way through next season.
We lost, badly, like we have done many times before. Its OK. It happens. And a defeat of this manner is more reflective of the players than the manager.
I don't expect trophies this year. What I do expect is that by next summer, Moyes knows our club culture and its methods, and most importantly how each squad players reacts under his command. Those that work for him he keeps, and then he sinks 100m+ into the transfer market for the players he needs to perform his vision.
Im more than fine with Moyes progress. And I'll only comment on his suitability for this job some way through next season.
Only 4 days ago, fans were lauding him for sending out the team that whipped Leverkusen!
Think most could deal with that and so can I and those are quite easy and rational sentiments to have at this stage of his Utd career. But I have to pose this question to you Sam and others; If we didn't get us into the UCL next season...minimum, what then?
Knee jerk reactions are in the order of the day over here..
Then pray why did he bring on Cleverly when the game was lost..I don't get it! Yes start with Clevs and his energy in midfield would ahve been better than Young's inept play, but bring a player of his ability when a bolder sub at Half time would have won him more plaudits
He's too worried about losing to rotate the squad. Rio has played every game so far. Jonny Evans hasn't made it on the pitch, if I remember correctly. He never had the depth at Everton that he has now nor the pressure to succeed. He's been overly cautious with his team selection. Vidic, Evra, and Rio need games off. Evans, Smalling need to play at center back. There's no reason for Vidic/Rio to start against Leverkusen after playing every match so far. Valencia has been in the team more than he should, not to mention Ashley Young.
If we lost our first Champions League game, the pressure would be on. He was able to delay it til the weekend at least...before getting destroyed by City.
He definitely needs to throw caution to the wind. It would be good to see him do it for the cup match but all that means is that he'll probably revert to no-rotation-form when the league returns.
That is obviously totally unacceptable purely because he has shown he has the capacity to take a team to the very fringes of CL football at Everton, and inherited a team of champions, some of which know how to get to CL finals and even win it.
In that scenario, he has to go. But really, I cant in a million years envisage that. Its virtually impossible and unlikely for so many reasons.
I don't think that will be an issue, pienaar isn't a kagawa but he's closer to that style than a winger, same with how he used Arteta. Januzaj has certainly inpressed with each performance under moyes who has given hin thebfreedom to express himself from a variety if position.
I think it's more him being a bit too cautious than anything and maybe that's cause he knows young and Valencia as opposed to kagawa. We'll have to see how things pan out from here, but I don't think he'll have an issue in getting kagawa and nani to play well from starting wide areas, I just think its getting him to play that way that may be te harder part. I think that even if they're fully got he'd be inclined to go for a welbeck or Valencia wide maybe because he thinks they can do a job there. But we'll have to see starting with Liverpool. If we lose that then can see us and him getting a lot of pressure.
But that's why I said they're good, i.e. disagreeing with someone who put them in our list of easier fixtures..Not sure he needs to learn it, because for all I know he may be able to do that already and he certainly got the most out of his squad at Everton. I think very few managers, if any, got more out of their team than Moyes did.
I'm a big supporter of Moyes but he has certainly made some mistakes so far, though that is to be expected. It would never be a perfect transition. That being said some of the criticisms have been very harsh IMO. For me the biggest issue has been the lack of rotation at the back, and even that is somewhat explainable given the start to the season we have had.
Kagawa and Nani not starting is probably the most common criticism of Moyes and I've certainly thought it myself, as both should walk into the team ahead of Young on this form. In reality though Kagawa didn't look match fit when he came on against Leverkusen. The positives were certainly there with Kagawa in the first half but he noticeably tired and dipped in the second, so Moyes was justified in leaving him out.
So IMO the criticism regarding Kagawa isn't fully warranted and when he's match fit we will get a better idea of how Moyes rates him. Personally I've no doubts he will get in the team. Nani is less explainable as I've not heard any fitness/injury issues, but then he has gone through the exact same situation with Ferguson. He has had very little game time to make his case under Moyes but if he plays well when given the chance I can't see why Moyes wouldn't play him.
Like I said the only real issue I have with him is the lack of rotation at the back. We have had a brutal run of fixtures this season which negates that somewhat, but Palace should have been taken as an opportunity to rotate Rio and Evans.
It's really unfortunate for Moyes that we had such a tricky opening to the season. I truly believe we'd have fared better away to Liverpool and away to City if he had his feet under the table a bit more. Yes, we still could've fared better in the opening 5 games, but if we're being honest the results we've had haven't exactly been unexpected. Granted, the scoreline against City was a bit of a shocker, but I can't say the results have been out of the blue overall.
Moyes has made some bad decisions so far, but he's done some good things too - convincing win at Swansea, as convincing a CL win as we've produced for a while, getting Rooney back in the groove, to mention a few. The reliance on Young and Valencia has been frustrating, but if we're being honest, it's been understandable. Even the great SAF wasn't beyond reproach on such matters. The barometer of Moyes' quality is going to be our reaction over the next couple of months. We have some big opportunities to get near the top of the table in our next 6 games, while with Liverpool and Arsenal at home, we also have the chance to get Moyes his first big game win.
We were horribly soft in the derby, but I genuinely think that's something that's been present in our squad for a good while. If his Everton reign is anything to go by, Moyes is well capable of building a strong unit. He also introduced the likes of Pienaar and Mirallas to his Everton side, so he's not averse to playing flair players either. Patience.
Moyes has made some bad decisions so far, but he's done some good things too - convincing win at Swansea, as convincing a CL win as we've produced for a while, getting Rooney back in the groove, to mention a few. The reliance on Young and Valencia has been frustrating, but if we're being honest, it's been understandable. Even the great SAF wasn't beyond reproach on such matters. The barometer of Moyes' quality is going to be our reaction over the next couple of months. We have some big opportunities to get near the top of the table in our next 6 games, while with Liverpool and Arsenal at home, we also have the chance to get Moyes his first big game win.
We were horribly soft in the derby, but I genuinely think that's something that's been present in our squad for a good while. If his Everton reign is anything to go by, Moyes is well capable of building a strong unit. He also introduced the likes of Pienaar and Mirallas to his Everton side, so he's not averse to playing flair players either. Patience.
We've had a really tough start, and although I'm disappointed with only picking up 7 points out of 5 games and expected us to do better it is hardly a surprise to lose at Anfield and the Etihad and draw with Chelsea.
However, I haven't enjoyed our approach so far and in general. We've been lacking flair, and surprisingly lacking guts as well. We need Rafael back badly, and I'm very disappointed Fabio was sidelined for Smalling & Jones. Has Fabio been that bad in training?
Also Evans needs to play. Rio has made several mistakes and looks off the pace and Evans has been fit enough to be on our bench the last few games but has yet to make an appearance for us. He should have played at least one of the games we had in quick succession.
Now that those games are out of the way I really hope Moyes relaxes a bit and puts a bit of faith into some of our other players. We could really do with Hernandez and Fabio's enthusiasm, the guile of Kagawa and the flair of Nani and Zaha. And one of the young centre backs to give Rio a rest.
However, I haven't enjoyed our approach so far and in general. We've been lacking flair, and surprisingly lacking guts as well. We need Rafael back badly, and I'm very disappointed Fabio was sidelined for Smalling & Jones. Has Fabio been that bad in training?
Also Evans needs to play. Rio has made several mistakes and looks off the pace and Evans has been fit enough to be on our bench the last few games but has yet to make an appearance for us. He should have played at least one of the games we had in quick succession.
Now that those games are out of the way I really hope Moyes relaxes a bit and puts a bit of faith into some of our other players. We could really do with Hernandez and Fabio's enthusiasm, the guile of Kagawa and the flair of Nani and Zaha. And one of the young centre backs to give Rio a rest.
Moyes should be given time and he will be. But the priority should still be to win trophies, that has to be the aim. Third should not be considered a great season. We have the same team as last year more or less, we should be aiming for trophies. The aim should not be just to be better than Everton at their best.
Losing 2 and drawing 1 against City, Chelsea, and Liverpool isn't acceptable just because they're tough games. You have to win some tough games if you want to win the league, we can't keep brushing defeats as no-big-deal every time we play one of the top 6 because "well, it's no surprise, it's a tough game".
I don't really subscribe to the idea we've been too negative/defensive though. Most people can't seem to tell the difference between playing shit and playing defensively. We've just lacked the quality in attack when we've had the possession and when we're searching for the openings, not helped by our selections of wide players, admittedly.
I don't really subscribe to the idea we've been too negative/defensive though. Most people can't seem to tell the difference between playing shit and playing defensively. We've just lacked the quality in attack when we've had the possession and when we're searching for the openings, not helped by our selections of wide players, admittedly.
If I were Moyes, I'd be making more of an effort to 'correct' some of the things that drove fans nuts about Fergie (love him as we did). Such as, buy a midfield, start trusting youth again, stop playing CBs at full back, stop using strikers in midfield and so forth.
If Moyes wants to win over the fans, he should take more risks, play the youth, play our best attacking talents. Don't go negative, don't fail to make substitutions.
If Moyes starts Adnan and he has a poor game, gets hauled off at 60 minutes then the fans won't mind. But if he does with Ashley friggin Young it's a lot harder to take.
I think basically that Moyes could help himself here. It's undeniably a tough gig, but so far he's not doing himself any favors with the negativity.
If Moyes wants to win over the fans, he should take more risks, play the youth, play our best attacking talents. Don't go negative, don't fail to make substitutions.
If Moyes starts Adnan and he has a poor game, gets hauled off at 60 minutes then the fans won't mind. But if he does with Ashley friggin Young it's a lot harder to take.
I think basically that Moyes could help himself here. It's undeniably a tough gig, but so far he's not doing himself any favors with the negativity.
I'm sad
Best Paddy Crerand show I've seen for ages. Paddy says if we play like that for the next 30 games we'll go down...
If we get third, I will be disappointed but not calling for his sacking. Well, if we're miles off, I might. If we finish fourth, it depends entirely on how we end up there. If we somehow manage to finish outside of the top 4 (which wouldn't even happen with Phelan in charge, let alone Moyes) he'd have to be let go.
Yes - and he also laughed and added that we won't play like that.
I also think that if we lose 4-0 every game we're probably getting relegated.
That he did but at least MUTV isn't whitewashing how cak we were. Paddy, bless him will defend the indefensible at times, but even he can't hide how bad we were.
I would not ask for Moyes head if we did not qualify for the CL. He needs our backing and he will get it.
Too many decisions I cant understand right now. I hope he steps up to a top club level rather soon
I think him and Stewart got a bit of a rough ride at the Etihad.
Really? It would be criminal to finish outside of the top 4 with this squad. Sure, we didn't really strengthen a lot and our rivals all did, but who is to blame for that? And even then, this is the squad that finished 11 points above the runners up, 17 points above 5th and with the best goal difference.
I think finishing outside of the top 4 would be a guaranteed sacking.
Nobody is asking for his head. All people want is that if we're gonna lose lets lose without a whimper. If we're going down then we should at least go down swinging.
All of us have grown used to seeing United fight to the 95th,96th,97th minute. Yesterday the game was over at half time, it was in the players' eyes. That's not Man Utd. Giving up and playing for respectable defeats? Not Man Utd. I'd have been happy to get mullered if we ever looked like scoring. We didn't. Out setup wasn't designed for winning either. I don't wanna watch United and know after 45 minutes what the result will be. I don't mind losing but I want us to try.
The big games this season have been a thousand miles away from Turin 99...
A lot of Reds - myself included - around town yesterday were fuming and ranting that Moyes' approach yesterday was far too cautious. Starting with Valencia and Young on the wings, and Smalling at right-back never really inspired confidence. Seeing van Persie ruled out must also have given City a huge shot in the arm.
We've looked decent at times against inferior opposition, but when the real acid tests have come, he's been found wanting. Of course we'll still support him, but it hasn't been impressive this far by any stretch of the imagination.
We've looked decent at times against inferior opposition, but when the real acid tests have come, he's been found wanting. Of course we'll still support him, but it hasn't been impressive this far by any stretch of the imagination.
Agreed. Everyone always says stick by your manager, but it's not a situation where you stick with him even if he does awful. He's not proved himself with us, and if he doesn't get champions league football with a squad like ours, after we just won the title by 11 points, he deserves to get sacked. It's a much different situation taking over the club now and taking it over when sir Alex did. Of course I think we'll be fine and make it no problem, but hypothetically speaking if we don't make the champions league, then the manager would need to get sacked. The only person at united who wouldn't is sir Alex pretty much, and that is because of what he did while he was our manager.
we don't want to turn into a Chelsea or City with managerial appointments. Think Moyes has the character and intelligence to figure things out. I did not agree with his tactics yesterday. But my biggest disappointment was players not 'believing' in themselves. This is one of those key moments where they need to ask themselves if they are worthy of playing for Manchester United. Moyes will not just accept what happened and he wont allow the players to just accept this either. We have a golden opportunity against the dippers.
And join the manager merry go round.... Fergie would have been gone by xmas if you had been making those decisions....
The dippers are well up for Wednesday. It's going to be difficult, players will be nervous after such a drubbing and Moyes will be his cautious self - - - - - -
I haven't followed Everton much, and I know many on here hate Landon Donovan but he is of that mould and he was played and trusted by Moyes in his brief time at Everton. Moyes wanted to sign him permanent but could not afford him.
IMO, people are just looking for reasons to doubt Moyes with this questioning
I agree, but it's still too early to judge.
If that's the case then they shouldn't fecking be here. And it's not Moyes' fault they are. I suspect you will be very wrong, we'll be up for it and that we'll see a team involving all the players that missed out yesterday.
It's as if you didn't watch the past 3 or so seasons. This had become a more frequent problem than you are admitting.
There's a lot of very selective memories around here.
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