MUST | Sign For United | Fan Ownership

DSG

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We are not being run well. That much is obvious even to a blind man who's got sound-cancelling headphones on 24/7.

One of the key things in running a company is making sure you have the right tools for the job. We have a leaking stadium that's not been upgraded for years which has also cost us money. Just a few weeks ago, the swimming pool was unavailable. Our senior women's team coach left because of our poor facilities. These are things directly linked to making our resources work the best for the Manchester United, the football club and the business.

On the transfer side, we are slow, make awfully expensive purchases, have no long-term strategy. Our contract renewals are a complete joke. Once again, this is because we lack specialists in those roles, who know our industry (i.e. the sport of football) well.

All this bullshit about running United being difficult is just a load of nonsense. We're not struggling financially. We can easily go and appoint a few good people that will cost us - at most - £5-10m a year but will probably pay that investment off in a matter of months when we don't sign the Harry Maguires of this world for stupid money.

The way people go on about running businesses on here, you'd think you'd need to be some sort of modern-day genius. You don't and this is espically true with the resources and stature we have at our club.
Spoken like someone who has never run a large company before.

I never said that the Glazers / Woodward were doing a good job. I just said there is a complexity to it that outsiders are not privy to....
 

Rightnr

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Spoken like someone who has never run a large company before.

I never said that the Glazers / Woodward were doing a good job. I just said there is a complexity to it that outsiders are not privy to....
And you know this how? Because you make it out as if you need to have superpowers to run a busines, we should all bow down to your superior knowledge? Spare me, please. More often than not, it's knowing the right people, not having the right skill-set that gets you in these position and this is never more obvious than seeing Ed Deadwood and friends running this club into the ground with their incompetence.

And this complexity you refer to is just another excuse. It's not like Joel Glazer is doing the books himself. They hire people for this and time and again they've proven they hire absolute chumps. If you have poor decision-making, that to me is the biggest sin you can have as a professional and these owners and their lackies have proven this to be the case time and again. Oh, and arrogance.
 

Random Task

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You have a one track mind when it comes to double D's.

Don't try and hide it.
I'm a fan of DD's, I won't lie.

So what's up with this guy, is he not good enough to run MUST?
 

DSG

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And you know this how? Because you make it out as if you need to have superpowers to run a busines, we should all bow down to your superior knowledge? Spare me, please. More often than not, it's knowing the right people, not having the right skill-set that gets you in these position and this is never more obvious than seeing Ed Deadwood and friends running this club into the ground with their incompetence.

And this complexity you refer to is just another excuse. It's not like Joel Glazer is doing the books himself. They hire people for this and time and again they've proven they hire absolute chumps. If you have poor decision-making, that to me is the biggest sin you can have as a professional and these owners and their lackies have proven this to be the case time and again. Oh, and arrogance.
Okay there, fella. Not here to defend the Glazers and I had some pretty mild posts about running a company. I see you are angry and agitated, just not sure why I was singled out. Because I said it’s hard to run multi-billion pound corporations? Cheers mate.
 

TheReligion

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I'm a fan of DD's, I won't lie.

So what's up with this guy, is he not good enough to run MUST?
I think many people don't like MUST as they feel they were too passive during the initial takeover and have sought to co-exist with the Glazers rather than remove them.

You know the Caf though. People post things without really explaining themselves and most of the time its negative.
 

Rightnr

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Okay there, fella. Not here to defend the Glazers and I had some pretty mild posts about running a company. I see you are angry and agitated, just not sure why I was singled out. Because I said it’s hard to run multi-billion pound corporations? Cheers mate.
I am not particularly angry but saying it's hard to run a multi-million pound/dollar business as a reason why we're run so badly is helping the Glazers' narrative. It's just a weak point to make, in my opinion.

The patronising tone, which sounds exactly how I'd expect the Glazers to talk in private, doesn't help.

I think many people don't like MUST as they feel they were too passive during the initial takeover and have sought to co-exist with the Glazers rather than remove them.

You know the Caf though. People post things without really explaining themselves and most of the time its negative.
Surely, if MUST become the fan representatives, there would be mechanisms to change the leadership, similar to Barcelona and their elections?

I think MUST have been too passive in the past but at least they're trying now. Might be too late but at least they're trying.
 

Random Task

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I think many people don't like MUST as they feel they were too passive during the initial takeover and have sought to co-exist with the Glazers rather than remove them.

You know the Caf though. People post things without really explaining themselves and most of the time its negative.
Fair enough.
 

TheReligion

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I am not particularly angry but saying it's hard to run a multi-million pound/dollar business as a reason why we're run so badly is helping the Glazers' narrative. It's just a weak point to make, in my opinion.

The patronising tone, which sounds exactly how I'd expect the Glazers to talk in private, doesn't help.


Surely, if MUST become the fan representatives, there would be mechanisms to change the leadership, similar to Barcelona and their elections?

I think MUST have been too passive in the past but at least they're trying now. Might be too late but at least they're trying.
I don't disagree but you have some posters here saying they'd rather support city than allow MUST to have anything to do with the running of the club.
 

Maticmaker

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Surely, if MUST become the fan representatives, there would be mechanisms to change the leadership, similar to Barcelona and their elections?
Yes, just how has that happened, last time I made an enquiry on here I was told MUST is only one of 11 representatives in/on the Fans Forum?
How come they (MUST) are now reportedly entering into talks with the Glazers about fan share ownership, is this on behalf of MUST members only, or for all fans and who or how were they promoted over the other ten representatives on the Forum to undertake these discussions?

I have no particular 'gripe' about MUST, (as I believe other Caf contributors do) but were their original founding members not at least part of the previous shareholders, who either sold out to the Glazers, or were themselves forced out? Either way if it is the case then it sounds like we could be heading for a 'rinse and repeat' cycle?

I also agree there needs to be an overhaul of how fan representatives are elected.
 

Rood

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Yes, just how has that happened, last time I made an enquiry on here I was told MUST is only one of 11 representatives in/on the Fans Forum?
How come they (MUST) are now reportedly entering into talks with the Glazers about fan share ownership, is this on behalf of MUST members only, or for all fans and who or how were they promoted over the other ten representatives on the Forum to undertake these discussions?

I have no particular 'gripe' about MUST, (as I believe other Caf contributors do) but were their original founding members not at least part of the previous shareholders, who either sold out to the Glazers, or were themselves forced out? Either way if it is the case then it sounds like we could be heading for a 'rinse and repeat' cycle?

I also agree there needs to be an overhaul of how fan representatives are elected.
MUST were previously Shareholders United and have campaigned to have the opportunity for the fans to buy shares for several years - they are the best placed to work with the Glazers to make that happen.
Most other members of the Fans Forum have their own specific groups to represent and arent necessarily that interested in the share ownership side of things.

Man Utd is a listed company in the US already, so in fact anyone can buy shares but they have limited voting rights so there has been limited interest over the years - the share price is actually pretty low at the moment so perhaps it is in the Glazers interests to try and get some demand from fans to buy shares
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/Man...WoQV41j9qRpZ_gISXTmj8gJB36nvfLzJ-co0Fxoma0XZD
 

Sky1981

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You lot. You're asking 24/7 for Glazers to sell. Now they're selling. You're not buying.

Walk the talk.

Invest your savings. Don't take dividends ever. Dont ever sell the share back for profits. Inject your own cash for the club you love.

/run for cover
 

Tincanalley

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I think many people don't like MUST as they feel they were too passive during the initial takeover and have sought to co-exist with the Glazers rather than remove them.

You know the Caf though. People post things without really explaining themselves and most of the time its negative.
100%. Let’s stop sniping and talk about the substance. The owners moved.. MUST deserve support; the Caf is a wilderness of ignorance, but this place never ceases to surprise me. It has lots of passion and intelligence in unexpected corners.
 
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100%. Let’s stop sniping and talk about the substance. The owners moved.. MUST deserve support; the Caf is a wilderness of ignorance, but this place never ceases to surprise me. It has lots of passion and intelligence in unexpected corners.
United fans want Glazer out. Seeing them thrown a few crumbs to passify the fans is rightly not going to wash with most fans.

I have no strong feels about MUST, they mean well but don't speak of the majority of the fambase.
 

RUCK4444

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You lot. You're asking 24/7 for Glazers to sell. Now they're selling. You're not buying.

Walk the talk.

Invest your savings. Don't take dividends ever. Dont ever sell the share back for profits. Inject your own cash for the club you love.

/run for cover
This.
 

Maticmaker

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Most other members of the Fans Forum have their own specific groups to represent and arent necessarily that interested in the share ownership side of things.
Thanks for the explanation... so MUST is a pressure group within the Fan's Forum, but what about those in other groups who are interested in the share ownership side, is the logic therefore they should now join MUST?
 

Rood

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United fans want Glazer out. Seeing them thrown a few crumbs to passify the fans is rightly not going to wash with most fans.

I have no strong feels about MUST, they mean well but don't speak of the majority of the fambase.
Wanting 'Glazer Out' sounds great but is actually meaningless without any realistic option to replace them - slowly getting them to sell down their shares is probably the best option. Many dont realise that they have already sold around 25% of the club in recent years so its not a huge stretch from here to get that below 50%

There isnt anyone who speaks for the majority of the fanbase because our fanbase is so vast with so many different opinions


Thanks for the explanation... so MUST is a pressure group within the Fan's Forum, but what about those in other groups who are interested in the share ownership side, is the logic therefore they should now join MUST?
Yes basically - what you need to understand is that most of the other groups on the Fans Forum are primarily interested in issues around matchgoing (stadium improvements, atmosphere, ticketing etc). Its only really MUST who focus on things like ownership, shares etc but at last month's Fan Forum following he ESL fall out, 9 of 11 members signed a joint letter with MUST showing they back their general proposals

I understand that the Fans Forum will be expanded next season - no details yet on how exactly
 

Maticmaker

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Wanting 'Glazer Out' sounds great but is actually meaningless without any realistic option to replace them - slowly getting them to sell down their shares is probably the best option. Many dont realise that they have already sold around 25% of the club in recent years so its not a huge stretch from here to get that below 50%

There isnt anyone who speaks for the majority of the fanbase because our fanbase is so vast with so many different opinions




Yes basically - what you need to understand is that most of the other groups on the Fans Forum are primarily interested in issues around matchgoing (stadium improvements, atmosphere, ticketing etc). Its only really MUST who focus on things like ownership, shares etc but at last month's Fan Forum following he ESL fall out, 9 of 11 members signed a joint letter with MUST showing they back their general proposals

I understand that the Fans Forum will be expanded next season - no details yet on how exactly
Thanks again....Sounds like a MUST 'leveraged buyout' of the fans forum' :lol:
 

HackeyC

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Frankly I'd want a 5% perpetual dividend yield from most investments. I may be swayed to take a little less from United, maybe 3%, but that would equate to c. £100m of dividend payments per year in place of interest charges. It is illogical to expect any owner accept less than an above inflation return on their investment. We can get into the semantics of a football club not being an investment, but if the players get paid ludicrously for playing then at the very least the owner should be compensated for accepting all the financial risks that come with ownership.

Their are financial implications that come with relinquishing a controlling interest so i don't see them arbitrarily falling below 50% to 40% then 30% etc.. as realistic. Realistically they will go from 75% to 50.1% to zero if they ever want a way out.
 

ravelston

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Frankly I'd want a 5% perpetual dividend yield from most investments. I may be swayed to take a little less from United, maybe 3%, but that would equate to c. £100m of dividend payments per year in place of interest charges. It is illogical to expect any owner accept less than an above inflation return on their investment. We can get into the semantics of a football club not being an investment, but if the players get paid ludicrously for playing then at the very least the owner should be compensated for accepting all the financial risks that come with ownership.

Their are financial implications that come with relinquishing a controlling interest so i don't see them arbitrarily falling below 50% to 40% then 30% etc.. as realistic. Realistically they will go from 75% to 50.1% to zero if they ever want a way out.
When the old plc went public, they set the first year dividend at about 4.5% of the issue price. Coincidentally that's roughly the same rate of return that the Glazers are getting on their total equity investment (52O million). For an investor buying stock in the new plc the return would be less than 1% - as you say, not an attractive investment unless you have another motivation for buying.
 

Rood

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I wonder how much these “new class shares” would cost
Ye that is the big question, id assume they would be more expensive than the shares without full voting rights that are currently listed in US

There was an open letter from the fabled 'Red Knights' demanding full voting shares at $14 (the original float price in 2012), this is never going to happen though
 

Green_Red

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When are we likely to see this scheme come into existence? I'm not putting another penny into the club until I see meaningful change. I think the supporters protest has gone too quiet.
 

Red_toad

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When are we likely to see this scheme come into existence? I'm not putting another penny into the club until I see meaningful change. I think the supporters protest has gone too quiet.
Do you want people to protest outside old Trafford when there’s no football being played? What are you doing for your part if you’re complaining?