My feelings and sadness towards the europeans' disdain for the Club World Cup

matbezlima

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I have always valued the Club World Cup very highly. It's a tournament to determine the WORLD champion after all! This has also always been the feeling of the average south-american football supporter. But perhaps we south-americans should stop giving the Club World Cup an importance that it doesn't deserve. After all, the european teams and european supporters don't really care about it and we should try to stop deluding ourselves into thinking "europeans only fake their indifference so they have an excuse if they lose it because they are so arrogant" or "let's destroy them so that they can respect south-american football and make them take the competition seriously" or "let's knock those fecking europeans out of their arrogant pedestal, let's teach them humbleness". Because I don't think that all europeans are intentionally arrogant when they dismiss the competition and because we shouldn't lower our self-esteem and have this underdog complex towards europeans that seems to be so culturally common here in South America, we should stop trying so desperately to seek respect and approval of europeans, we should stop humiliating ourselves.

Europeans don't care about the Club World Cup, so why should we south-americans hold the competition in such a high pedestal? We should start to stop treating it as the pinnacle of the season and give more value to Libertadores! Because if we win the Club World Cup, many people are always going to dismiss the title saying "europeans don't care" and they are sadly right. The Club World Cup doesn't taste like much when it's clear that the opponent doesn't care much about it, it's depressing. Just look at how Liverpool's players and supporters reacted to the title, barely any celebration in the dressing room from the players and no big celebration in the streets from Liverpool's supporters, some even defending that Liverpool played the Club World Cup with their team of youngsters like the League Cup. If Flamengo had won, there would be millions in the streets of Rio de Janeiro celebrating. Flamengo's 3-0 victory over Liverpool in 1981 is widely regarded as the greatest game in the club's history and the pinnacle of a fantastic team, by far the best in the club history with Zico as the main star. There is even an extremely popular and often sung song made by Flamengo's supporters celebrating that victory, but it seems that Liverpool's supporters, specially the youngest, don't care or even know about that game. When Barcelona played against Santos in 2011, it was hugely hyped here as THE game of the year, but not in Europe. Same thing for Flamengo vs. Liverpool past year.

It is really heartbreaking for me to see the indifference that europeans have towards the competition. Let's have some self-respect and pride towards ourselves and stop thinking that we have to try to earn respect from europeans. Nelson Rodrigues called all this inferiority complex "the underdog complex" and it permeates our desires to be militarly, economically and diplomatically to be as respected as the likes of EUA, top european countries, China, Russia and Japan are. Let's stop with this low self-steem.
 

Flexdegea

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I have always valued the Club World Cup very highly. It's a tournament to determine the WORLD champion after all! This has also always been the feeling of the average south-american football supporter. But perhaps we south-americans should stop giving the Club World Cup an importance that it doesn't deserve. After all, the european teams and european supporters don't really care about it and we should try to stop deluding ourselves into thinking "europeans only fake their indifference so they have an excuse if they lose it because they are so arrogant" or "let's destroy them so that they can respect south-american football and make them take the competition seriously" or "let's knock those fecking europeans out of their arrogant pedestal, let's teach them humbleness". Because I don't think that all europeans are intentionally arrogant when they dismiss the competition and because we shouldn't lower our self-esteem and have this underdog complex towards europeans that seems to be so culturally common here in South America, we should stop trying so desperately to seek respect and approval of europeans, we should stop humiliating ourselves.

Europeans don't care about the Club World Cup, so why should we south-americans hold the competition in such a high pedestal? We should start to stop treating it as the pinnacle of the season and give more value to Libertadores! Because if we win the Club World Cup, many people are always going to dismiss the title saying "europeans don't care" and they are sadly right. The Club World Cup doesn't taste like much when it's clear that the opponent doesn't care much about it, it's depressing. Just look at how Liverpool's players and supporters reacted to the title, barely any celebration in the dressing room from the players and no big celebration in the streets from Liverpool's supporters, some even defending that Liverpool played the Club World Cup with their team of youngsters like the League Cup. If Flamengo had won, there would be millions in the streets of Rio de Janeiro celebrating. Flamengo's 3-0 victory over Liverpool in 1981 is widely regarded as the greatest game in the club's history and the pinnacle of a fantastic team, by far the best in the club history with Zico as the main star. There is even an extremely popular and often sung song made by Flamengo's supporters celebrating that victory, but it seems that Liverpool's supporters, specially the youngest, don't care or even know about that game. When Barcelona played against Santos in 2011, it was hugely hyped here as THE game of the year, but not in Europe. Same thing for Flamengo vs. Liverpool past year.

It is really heartbreaking for me to see the indifference that europeans have towards the competition. Let's have some self-respect and pride towards ourselves and stop thinking that we have to try to earn respect from europeans. Nelson Rodrigues called all this inferiority complex "the underdog complex" and it permeates our desires to be militarly, economically and diplomatically to be as respected as the likes of EUA, top european countries, China, Russia and Japan are. Let's stop with this low self-steem.


All the best players in the world play in the champs league so that's why no one takes it serious :lol:
 

Andi Latte

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The thing is, though, european football is simply a few levels above the other continents' competitions. There's a reason why all the best South-American, African and Asian players go to ply their trade in Europe. When you win the CL you're pretty much the best team in the world already, CWC is just a formality most of the times.

Of course it's far more of an event for the other nations, just like it is for LASK to have Man Utd over, or some League 2 side hosting Liverpool in the cup. For the CL winner on the other hand, it's pretty much just a hassle, flying for hours on end to face inferior opposition in the middle of the domestic season (the timing of the competition really doesn't help in that regard) just to win a title that is expected to be won by them.

Maybe that sounds arrogant, but European football is just objectively so far above the other continents at present.
 
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meamth

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I thought it is well known already the stakes will be higher next season in 2021. To quote the slots for the new CWC:

"
The slot allocation was confirmed on 24 October 2019.[9][11] The selection process for the tournament participants will be decided following a consultation between FIFA and the six confederations.[10]

Basically the stakes are higher for CL winners to get the best in the world status. You can win the CL and not yet considered the best in the world.

EDIT:
Plus the new CWC will only happen every 4 years.

Imagine carrying that world's best team badge for 4 years.. who doesn't want that??

/closethread
 

Withnail

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You can win the CL and not yet considered the best in the world.
That's just not true though.

And the last thing we need is an expanded competition with more games. The feckers want to do it every two years if they can get away with it as well.
 

Sayros

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I have always valued the Club World Cup very highly. It's a tournament to determine the WORLD champion after all! This has also always been the feeling of the average south-american football supporter. But perhaps we south-americans should stop giving the Club World Cup an importance that it doesn't deserve. After all, the european teams and european supporters don't really care about it and we should try to stop deluding ourselves into thinking "europeans only fake their indifference so they have an excuse if they lose it because they are so arrogant" or "let's destroy them so that they can respect south-american football and make them take the competition seriously" or "let's knock those fecking europeans out of their arrogant pedestal, let's teach them humbleness". Because I don't think that all europeans are intentionally arrogant when they dismiss the competition and because we shouldn't lower our self-esteem and have this underdog complex towards europeans that seems to be so culturally common here in South America, we should stop trying so desperately to seek respect and approval of europeans, we should stop humiliating ourselves.

Europeans don't care about the Club World Cup, so why should we south-americans hold the competition in such a high pedestal? We should start to stop treating it as the pinnacle of the season and give more value to Libertadores! Because if we win the Club World Cup, many people are always going to dismiss the title saying "europeans don't care" and they are sadly right. The Club World Cup doesn't taste like much when it's clear that the opponent doesn't care much about it, it's depressing. Just look at how Liverpool's players and supporters reacted to the title, barely any celebration in the dressing room from the players and no big celebration in the streets from Liverpool's supporters, some even defending that Liverpool played the Club World Cup with their team of youngsters like the League Cup. If Flamengo had won, there would be millions in the streets of Rio de Janeiro celebrating. Flamengo's 3-0 victory over Liverpool in 1981 is widely regarded as the greatest game in the club's history and the pinnacle of a fantastic team, by far the best in the club history with Zico as the main star. There is even an extremely popular and often sung song made by Flamengo's supporters celebrating that victory, but it seems that Liverpool's supporters, specially the youngest, don't care or even know about that game. When Barcelona played against Santos in 2011, it was hugely hyped here as THE game of the year, but not in Europe. Same thing for Flamengo vs. Liverpool past year.

It is really heartbreaking for me to see the indifference that europeans have towards the competition. Let's have some self-respect and pride towards ourselves and stop thinking that we have to try to earn respect from europeans. Nelson Rodrigues called all this inferiority complex "the underdog complex" and it permeates our desires to be militarly, economically and diplomatically to be as respected as the likes of EUA, top european countries, China, Russia and Japan are. Let's stop with this low self-steem.
Two things I love about this post:

1) South Americans talking about humbleness when it comes to football.

and

2) Going to a forum that supports a European team to talk how South Americans shouldn't care about what Europeans think of the competition. I mean you're right in pretty much everything you said, but seems like this message is targeted at the audience that you're sort of giving up on already.

It is true though how there are certain tournaments I just don't care about, the CWC is definitely one of them, the new one on the block now is the League of Nations or whatever that international tournament was that they dumped on us right after the world cup which is apparently going to be a recurring thing, I couldn't care less about that one either. Oh, and the Olympics.
 

Greck

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I remember feeling some surprise when I learnt it was a huge deal in South America where we simply look at it as a pre-season tournament. The heavy participation of lesser known leagues around these parts will always down its status for many. People already call better European leagues farmers leagues.
 

tenpoless

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Is this the competition where Bayern Munich met Raja Casablanca in the final? Inter vs TP Mazembe? Read Madrid vs Al-Anin?
The truth is, the gap of quality is too much for the competition to be taken seriously. Thus most people see it as a pointless competition. You just know who's going to win it.
 

Hound Dog

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What I don't get from this post if is if you are South American yourself?

If so, it's probably a cultural thing that you are so enamoured with the fraud that is Pep. South Americans like the pretty passing football and all.
 

Sky1981

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The only thing good about cwc is that it's hard to get in, harder not to win if you're the reigning cl champion.

It's like the finishing lap of a platinum achievement after you beat the hardest meanest final boss, only to die jumpiny of a platform towards the ending
 

meamth

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The only thing good about cwc is that it's hard to get in, harder not to win if you're the reigning cl champion.

It's like the finishing lap of a platinum achievement after you beat the hardest meanest final boss, only to die jumpiny of a platform towards the ending
That would change if there are 4 CL winners and 4 Europa winners competing for the prize, wouldn't it?

Thing is, I can see this being big:
  • Pre Season is now transformed into a big tournament.
  • No other football competition to rival that moment, aside from useless friendlies.
  • 4 years to wait for the tournament, much like a proper world cup, but for clubs.
 

SirAF

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I have always valued the Club World Cup very highly. It's a tournament to determine the WORLD champion after all! This has also always been the feeling of the average south-american football supporter. But perhaps we south-americans should stop giving the Club World Cup an importance that it doesn't deserve. After all, the european teams and european supporters don't really care about it and we should try to stop deluding ourselves into thinking "europeans only fake their indifference so they have an excuse if they lose it because they are so arrogant" or "let's destroy them so that they can respect south-american football and make them take the competition seriously" or "let's knock those fecking europeans out of their arrogant pedestal, let's teach them humbleness". Because I don't think that all europeans are intentionally arrogant when they dismiss the competition and because we shouldn't lower our self-esteem and have this underdog complex towards europeans that seems to be so culturally common here in South America, we should stop trying so desperately to seek respect and approval of europeans, we should stop humiliating ourselves.

Europeans don't care about the Club World Cup, so why should we south-americans hold the competition in such a high pedestal? We should start to stop treating it as the pinnacle of the season and give more value to Libertadores! Because if we win the Club World Cup, many people are always going to dismiss the title saying "europeans don't care" and they are sadly right. The Club World Cup doesn't taste like much when it's clear that the opponent doesn't care much about it, it's depressing. Just look at how Liverpool's players and supporters reacted to the title, barely any celebration in the dressing room from the players and no big celebration in the streets from Liverpool's supporters, some even defending that Liverpool played the Club World Cup with their team of youngsters like the League Cup. If Flamengo had won, there would be millions in the streets of Rio de Janeiro celebrating. Flamengo's 3-0 victory over Liverpool in 1981 is widely regarded as the greatest game in the club's history and the pinnacle of a fantastic team, by far the best in the club history with Zico as the main star. There is even an extremely popular and often sung song made by Flamengo's supporters celebrating that victory, but it seems that Liverpool's supporters, specially the youngest, don't care or even know about that game. When Barcelona played against Santos in 2011, it was hugely hyped here as THE game of the year, but not in Europe. Same thing for Flamengo vs. Liverpool past year.

It is really heartbreaking for me to see the indifference that europeans have towards the competition. Let's have some self-respect and pride towards ourselves and stop thinking that we have to try to earn respect from europeans. Nelson Rodrigues called all this inferiority complex "the underdog complex" and it permeates our desires to be militarly, economically and diplomatically to be as respected as the likes of EUA, top european countries, China, Russia and Japan are. Let's stop with this low self-steem.
Now, this I agree with. I love the Club World Cup! One of my first thoughts after United winning the CL in 2008 was that FINALLY I was going to see United compete for the World Champions title :D
 

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Arsenal won it back in 1989 when they beat Independiente.

Remarkable because we managed to get our physio sent off during the game.
 

SilentWitness

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The money for the big clubs in Europe is in their league or the Champions League.

League Cup and FA Cup money isn’t substantial enough for the big clubs to care about and neither is the Club World Cup.

Looking at the Cup competitions the reason the FA Cup is seen as magical by domestic players and the public is because of the coverage. It’s on free to air tv so it’s easy access for the casual viewer or those who can’t afford sky/bt etc. It begins at the start of the season at the very bottom level of football so it involves all domestic clubs and can have the ‘magic’ of a cup run. There are so many levels to that Cup that make it special still for a lot of people.

The League Cup nobody cares about apart from mid-low tier PL clubs due to the European opportunity so again it is money driven in terms of those people.

The Club World Cup is something you’re only able to enter if you win a European competition so it is already very limited in terms of entry. Due to that fans of mid-low level clubs don’t even think about it as a tournament so when it comes on tv they are only interested from a “oh well at least it’s more football”. From that point though they can see that the level of football isn’t great. Due to it being wedged into the season awkwardly it means you’ll have a jaded European side playing against SA and Asian sides that are severely lacking in quality compared to the 80s and 90s. In the CL you have genuine top class teams competing to be the best.

So there are a few issues with it.

1) It’s very rare that your team will enter it.
2) It’s only on for a limited time span so people are invested for a few days and then it’s finished.
3) The quality overall is poor because of a tired European side/other sides aren’t as good as they used to be.
4) The timing of the tournament and size.
 

Chipper

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That would change if there are 4 CL winners and 4 Europa winners competing for the prize, wouldn't it?

Thing is, I can see this being big:
  • Pre Season is now transformed into a big tournament.
  • No other football competition to rival that moment, aside from useless friendlies.
  • 4 years to wait for the tournament, much like a proper world cup, but for clubs.
I think it will be considered more important than it currently is.

Not sure I'll get into it personally as a fan. New things always take me a while to warm to I suppose and this very different format will essentially feel like a new tournament altogether.

The separation in time between when a team qualifies and plays if it's 4 CL/EL winners will make it a bit hard to care too. It was never due to be held this summer, but if it was United would have been in for winning the Europa League in 2017. Valencia, Blind, Darmian, Herrera, Fellaini and Mkhitaryan who all started the final are no longer here, nor is Mourinho or Rooney who was on the bench alongside Carrick who has retired as a player. Smalling started too and is still technically our player but may well be getting sold in the summer.

If the team playing in it is going to be loads of different players from those who qualified it, it creates a big disconnect for me. That we'd be in it for winning the Europa League, a second-rate competition rather than the CL would be a negative too. If it's a tournament we're supposed to feel is prestigious then I'd actually feel inferior to the CL winners and that we don't merit being there if we ever got into it by winning the EL.

Also hard to get out of the mentality that it's just pre-season so I'm not sure about the prestige anyway. Any club football in June/July is going to feel like that for old farts like me.
 
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It’s an exhibition competition.

no one takes it seriously, and it’s not a competition that anyone cares about. CL is the pinnacle of club football, this is unimportant and more on an annoyance to the European teams that have to play in it.

if it was cancelled, no one would even notice.
 

RooneyLegend

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Since all the best footballers from South America started to play their trade in Europe the value of the competition went out the window. It's a long time now so it's lost its significance historically too.

Modern fans relate today's football to the past. It's why some clowns dare mention that Pele didn't play Europe as it's some stick to beat him with.
 

Raees

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My favourite club World Cup was the one that United did awful in against Vasco De Gama etc for the first time it felt prestigious but it was a nightmare to schedule fixture wise and ever since lost some of its relevance.
 

Chipper

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I didn't care for it even when United won it.

That made me think, I can't remember who we played in it when we won it or the Intercontinental cup. Just had to Google it.

The most significance it has is the "World Champions Twice" song, which isn't really at all being proud about winning it.
 

Neil_Buchanan

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European clubs and fans have no reason to respect the competition. Maybe it meant something fifty years ago when Brazil had some decent players but now its a nothing trophy, a traditional exhibition game against uncompetitive teams at a disruptive time of the season, which is usually held on the other side of the world in some z-grade footballing nation.
 

redshaw

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CL is the world club cup. If South America can keep hold of their top players it would mean more.
 

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It isn't competitive. 12 of the last 13 have been won by the European side. It's pretty clear that European football is comfortably superior so winning the CL is the biggest prize.
 

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I always felt the CWC was the equivalent of the Community Shield but on a global scale.

Very tinpot-ish.
 

Offside

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It’s just a formality. The only time a non-European team hasn’t won recently is when a crap European team has fluked their CL win. I still think it’s a great competition to win but more a Community Shield style follow-up to the real great victory.
 

fps

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No one cares because the best team in Europe is the best team in the world. The second best team in Europe is the second best team in the world. And so on.
 

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Arrogant Europeans galore. You all only can claim 1 world champion title per year, the Americas can claim 4, so suck it

Another reason why, when I seize power and become Supreme Dictator, I'll handicap European clubs by restricting their access to foreign talent.

In all seriousness, the other club competitions (Copa Libertadores, CAF Champions League, etc) don't need the CWC as validation of their quality. While they may not boast the talent that the CL currently holds, they have their own fans and proud traditions and their existence is a plus, not negative, to the worldwide sport that is football. Appreciate the Boca Juniors and TP Mazembes for what they are without the measuring dick contests against Bayern and United.
 

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I've always liked it. I like to see South American teams especially. Yes there is a difference of ability but its not so often you can play against teams from other continents. I'd love to say for example see us play Boca or River in a two legged match. For the atmosphere alone.
 

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I'd like to point out that personally I love South American football and follow it as much as I can. I'd love nothing more than getting to see Boca vs River or Fla Flu in person. But there is no real history or tradition attached to this tournament for most European fans. Most people over here can't really grasp the idea of how "big" Flamengo or Penarol or Olimpia or Palmeiras are because they never see them. And I think the expanded tournament is probably a response to the growing International Champions Cup, that friendly tournament/money spinner that increasingly is hoovering up Europe's big clubs for glamour matches in far off places.

As an aside, since you are South American, can you clarify the following. Since people over here might say "we need a good run to get into Europe next season", would, say, a Racing Club fan say "we need to do well so we can qualify for South America next season" or does that not happen? :lol:
 

Josh 76

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It’s an exhibition competition.

no one takes it seriously, and it’s not a competition that anyone cares about. CL is the pinnacle of club football, this is unimportant and more on an annoyance to the European teams that have to play in it.

if it was cancelled, no one would even notice.
Apart from Liverpool.
 

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The best players, including South Americans, play in Europe. This is one of the many reasons not many take the World Club cup competition or whatever it is called these days seriously.

In a fantasy world where clubs like Santos, Flamengo, River Plate or Boca can keep their best players like Neymar, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Aimar, Tevez, Riquelme etc and pay them the best wages while elevating the standards of their own domestic and continental competitions, then yeah maybe a world club tournament might be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, I don't think there are that many footballers in South America who won't view getting a move to Europe as a step up.
 

Josh 76

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The best players, including South Americans, play in Europe. This is one of the many reasons not many take the World Club cup competition or whatever it is called these days seriously.

In a fantasy world where clubs like Santos, Flamengo, River Plate or Boca can keep their best players like Neymar, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Aimar, Tevez, Riquelme etc and pay them the best wages while elevating the standards of their own domestic and continental competitions, then yeah maybe a world club tournament might be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, I don't think there are that many footballers in South America who won't view getting a move to Europe as a step up.
Great point.
This is why I get annoyed when people say Pele and Zico didn't really do it in Europe. But in them days South American Football was the the best in the world.
Santos in the 60s/70s and Flamengo in the late 70s and early 80s were the best Club teams in the world. All the top South American players were playing in their own domestic leagues.
And that's why the World Cups were so special as you only got to see those players every 4 years.
 
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Lebo

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The previous winner must get automatic qualification. That way we can get to have a final like Madrid vs Liverpool.
 

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I doubt this would have made the tournament any more glamorous, but I always thought that the tournament should have the 6 continental champions split into 2 groups of 3, with the 2 group winners facing each other in the final. That would resulted in one more match for the European team assuming that they reached the final as expected, but I think it would have been better than other teams travelling a long way, losing one match getting eliminated and having to play in a 5th place playoff or whatever.

I think that the ideal format for FIFA for an annual Club World Cup would have been same one as used for the now defunct Confederations Cup, i.e. with the 6 continental champions, the domestic champions of the host nation and then probably the reigning CWC champions, with 2 groups of 4, a semi-final and a final. However there's no way that could have pushed that through into the annual footballing calendar.